Open Thread - Saturday afternoon

by whataboutbob
Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 08:59:10 AM EST

A little bit of thread goes a long way...


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Happy Birthday USA -



"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 09:05:18 AM EST
Good ol' Grateful Dead!! Have fun out there, whether you are celebrating the 4th or not!

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 09:10:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We're Americans. We built the Golden Gate Bridge and Hoover Dam and Joan Rivers. We're the only country that can look at a sandwich made of ice cream and chocolate cookies covered in fudge and think, "Huh, you think we could fry that?"

And you know what? YES, WE CAN!



WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 09:29:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, you forgot chocolate dipped frozen bananas...and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches!!

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 09:49:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Huh, you think we could fry that?"

No Batter? you're anateurs compared to the Scots ;)

I'm tired of this backslapping, aint humanity great BS, we're a virus with shoes Bill Hicks

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 10:47:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As you allknow, i believe amurka is clinically insane. But i also know that one of the greatest gifts to world culture is amurkan roots music, the music of the great mixing.

for the 4th celebration of insanity (and in honor of the german bureaucrat who decided to legally finalize my divorce on independence day last year) here is my nod to hero status, Levon Helm.

anyone who wishes to surf farther might go here.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 04:46:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Recent performance. Perhaps about a banking crisis.



Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 04:55:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For those who don't know, The Band began as Dylan's first real band (not counting previous history as to why they were chosen). When they went on their own, they changed music forever.  Here Levon is singing after radioactive throat cancer therapy.

I am so glad that i know Levon, and that the bass player, Rick Danko, now gone, visited me in my tipi one night to trade Hank Williams songs on guitar.

sometimes memories, especially for old folk like me, are overwhelming.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 05:05:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Crazy Horse- thank you for posting Levon Helm. i appreciate it and hope many people will do as well. and it IS overwhelming...
by Specs on Mon Jul 6th, 2009 at 11:34:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Welcome to ET, Specs!

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Jul 6th, 2009 at 05:48:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hi everyone; I was in India (Bangalore) during all the week; came back yesterday, real tired.

The place is amazing; street traffic is crazy, folks are really nice and the temperature was cooler than I expected: 27C (it was 31C in Paris).

The big news item over there was the recent high court decision to decriminalize gay relationships, a pivotal moment everyone agreed.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 09:30:31 AM EST
India decriminalizing gay relationships - impressive. The US is behind the 8 ball on that one - must catch up on that one!!

As for Bangalore, I have heard a lot of good & interesting things about Bangalore - would love to see some photos at some point, if you happen to have any to share. Its the IT center of India too, right?

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 09:48:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well I brought a camera but I haven't taken a single picture. We were in meetings all day; the last evening, two colleagues brought us to the downtown area with plenty of shops of all kinds, but it was night time already.

Yep, Bangalore is the high-tech capital of India, not only IT but also electronics, semiconductors and of course aerospace (Indian space rockets & satellites were designed there).

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 10:07:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Voice of America: Honduras Pulls Out of OAS
The new government of Honduras says it no longer recognizes the charter of the Organization of American States and is withdrawing its membership from the group.

Honduras made the announcement late Friday, a day before the OAS was due to vote on suspending the Central American country, following its refusal to adhere to demands by OAS to return toppled President Manuel Zelaya to office. The OAS has called an emergency meeting in Washington on Saturday.

The Supreme Court of Honduras told OAS chief Jose Miguel Insulza Friday that its decision to oust Mr. Zelaya is irreversible, and that the leftist leader would be arrested if he returned home.

Pre-emptive strike: "the OAS didn't suspend our membership, we quit".

A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 10:14:01 AM EST
It is the sort of reaction one would expect from that country's oligarchy.  Nevertheless, I don't think they would go so far if the US weren't so equivocal about it.  My prediction - the US is going to blink!

"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 10:27:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
CCTV: US suspends military exercises with Honduras (July 3, 2009)
U.S. military officials say that U.S. soldiers stationed on Soto Cano Air Base in Honduras, home to a United States' Joint Task Force, were ordered to stay on base.

The base is located about 100 kilometers from the capital city of Tegucigalpa and houses 500 to 600 U.S. soldiers.

Normally, the two military allies would participate in joint exercises and the U.S. military uses the base for counter-narcotics and humanitarian missions.



A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 10:29:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I however am not as sanguine as this fellow.

"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 10:41:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Abraham F. Lowenthal:
Honduras may prove to be a tough test. In the past, one U.S. administration after another has trumpeted a new policy, but more often than not, these new approaches have faded away: resisted by career bureaucrats, special interests, or both, and overwhelmed by regional realities or by other concerns. That is what happened, for example, in 1963 when elected President Ramón Villeda Morales was overthrown in Honduras, testing the resolve of the Kennedy administration to implement its announced policy that it would not recognize governments established by force. Washington suspended diplomatic relations immediately after the coup, but restored them less than two months later, recognized and accommodated itself to the anti-Communist military regime. This sequence contributed to the so-called Mann Doctrine of 1964, dropping the U.S. insistence on democracy.


"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 11:05:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nevertheless, if you strip the ideology from the text, there is important economic news:

Most Latin American governments, which, in the last decade, came to recognize the benefits of orthodox economic policies coupled with targeted antipoverty programs, have managed to prevent a free fall in their economies and appear to be on their way back to decent growth next year. Key Latin American economies were growing at near double-digit rates before the economic crisis--driven by high commodity prices and reinforced by responsible economic policies. That ground to a halt after the economic meltdown last fall, and only a handful of countries are expected to record any growth this year. Brazil, Colombia, Chile, and Argentina are expected to shrink by up to 2 percent in 2009, according to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and independent analysts; Mexico's U.S.-dependent economy (hit hard by panic over drug violence and the flu pandemic earlier this year) may suffer a historic contraction.
High commodity prices (oil and gas, copper, and soybeans) had fueled growth in many regional economies. Reduced demand for these goods due to the global downturn has hurt export revenues. For example, Venezuelan oil is down to $61.30 a barrel, down from a peak of $129 in July 2008--although crude oil prices have rebounded by over 30 percent since April.[1] Copper prices are at $4,569 a ton today, compared to a peak of $8,443 at this time last year. Soybean prices have been a bit steadier, but today they are about 20 percent below the average price they commanded in 2008.[2]
Foreign direct investment (FDI) also poured into the region over the last several years, posting substantial gains just before the crisis. The brakes were put on late last year, and FDI peaked at about $130 billion in 2008--a 13 percent increase from the previous year. But this rate of growth was down sharply from the 52 percent gain recorded in 2007.[3] The United Nations Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean predicts that FDI may drop by 45 percent this year.[4] Inasmuch as the United States accounts for about a quarter of FDI to the region, a prolonged recession and uncertainty in the financial markets may threaten the nascent Latin recovery.


"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 10:33:59 AM EST
The Almedal week in Visby on Gotland, is finishing right now.

This week was the biggest ever, with more than a 1000 seminars, and pretty much the entire Swedish ruling class was there.

Two great speeches were produced, really some of the greatest Swedish political speches in the last decade or two, one by Prime minister Reinfeldt, and one by Social minister Hägglund (chairman of the Christ dems).

If you know Swedish, here they are.

Reinfeldt: http://svtplay.se/v/1615909/rapport/hela_reinfeldts_tal



Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 11:42:24 AM EST
Borg bashes business group 'ideologues'

Sweden's finance minister Anders Borg lashed out at the country's business community on Friday, calling Sweden's main business group "ideological megaphones" who've shirked their responsibility during the economic crisis.

Borg said he wanted the Confederation of Swedish Enterprise (Svenskt Näringsliv) to "turn down the volume on their ideological megaphones".

According to Borg, a member of the centre-right Moderate Party, Sweden's unions have shouldered most of the burden associated with the current economic crisis, while employers have mostly complained that the Swedish labour market doesn't work.

The finance minister urged the country's business community to put a muzzle on "those ideologues".

"If you want to have a positive tone heading into the next round of labour agreement negotiations, maybe you should try to be a bit more nuanced; it takes two to dance the tango," said Borg.

The comments came during a seminar held arranged by the Centre for Business and Policy Studies (SNS) during Sweden's annual Almedalen Week political meet up, held in Visby on the Baltic island of Gotland.

Borg's accusations prompted a heated exchange with Anders Rune, the lead economist with the Association of Swedish Engineering Industries (Teknikföretagen).

"I regret the attack on employers," said Rune, who fired back that perhaps Borg wasn't very well informed about the functioning of the Swedish labour market.

Such signals don't improve the prospects for the coming round of negotiation between unions and employers, he added.

"You can start by saying that the country's business owners are nuts when they want to reform labour laws," said Rune.

But Borg held steady.

"Of you fire missiles you have to be ready accept that they will be answered in the same tone," said the finance minister.

Borg praised Sweden's unions for how they've managed the weak economy by agreeing to shorter working hours and lower pay.

"We have a union movement which views change positively, which protects people, not jobs and we should protect that. We have one of the world's best union movements," said Borg.

He pointed to recent figures from the OECD which show that Sweden, along with Denmark, have the most flexible labour laws in Sweden. [uh... should be Europe, I guess.]

The Swedish Federation of Business Owner (Företagarna), rejected the finance minister's criticism, however, calling it baseless, arguing that it's not true that Swedish labour law doesn't affect unemployment.

The evil hard rightwing government strikes again...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 11:53:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Its spitting with rain here, but we're still on the patio using 'Sisu' to pretend that it's summer.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 01:47:40 PM EST
..The Gordon's bottle is taking a bit of a beating. Thank Zeus I bought enough tonics...not to mention that we are on our 3rd lemon.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 01:49:27 PM EST
Lemons are of course wonderful, but that's a lot of lemon.

Go easy.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 01:58:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well you probably need it to make yourself invisible to security cameras.

I'm tired of this backslapping, aint humanity great BS, we're a virus with shoes Bill Hicks
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 02:18:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dinna worry - 6 people, small lemons, fresh slices each time ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jul 5th, 2009 at 04:05:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Paul Begala brings teh funny.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 02:34:12 PM EST
Yes, he does.

A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 02:45:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Paul Begala: Sarah Palin Turns Pro
Ponder that and say a prayer for Ms. Palin's editor.

On a scale of one to Hitchcock, that thought rates somewhere just north of the facehuggers in Alien.

Apparently the book is due out in the Spring, which means it has to be finished by the end of the year at the latest.

We'll see.

Here's an unhappy thought - the book advance is around $11m, and it's being paid out by Murdoch.

If Palin happened to be running in 2012, that would make it one of her biggest (legal) campaign contributions.

Rupert will be wanting a return on that. If she's federal toast, he won't be happy. But if the rumours are just rumours, I don't think she's as down and out as we'd all like to hope.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 02:52:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True, but, at the same time, she already agrees with Murdoch on nearly everything, so I'm not sure he even needs to buy her off.

And, really, $11m is going to be a drop in the bucket by the time we get to 2012.  A million of that is gone just on her legal defense spending.  Four years ago it was considered awesome that Kerry and Bush has raised and spent more than $200m each.  Then Obama, alone, did more than the two of them combined (McCain did about $100m more than either one and started running out of money).

It's a lot of money to take on Mittens and the Huckster initially.  Don't imagine Mrs Mittens is going to allow her goofy husband to piss away part of the kids' trust funds again, especially not when Obama will be raising perhaps $100m per month once he gets moving sometime in 2011 (or even earlier).

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 04:14:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's the implication of sponsorship and of support that bothers me. Darth Evil is good at buying pols - he bought Bliar, after all. $11m would give Failin a good chance at building up an alternative non-governing presence away from Alaska.

Don't forget she has TV experience, so Darth Evil may be grooming her for a Fox slot as a stepping stone to better things.

Incidentally, Sportsgate has been simmering since before the election.

It would good to hope for an indictment, but this looks like standard-issue repub small-think corruption to me. Getting taken out for it would be unexpected and somewhat surprising.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 07:22:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Celebrating the 4th by hanging out about 10 miles from the Iranian border within visual range of Mt. Ararat, which is a very impressive looking mountain.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 03:05:35 PM EST
and I'm going to have to work in a Noah's Ark joke when I post the photo to flickr.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 03:06:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We will all give it 2s.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 05:17:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dr Richard Werner lived in Japan for years and has written very cogently concerning the Japanese economy. He's a member of the Gang 8 Creditary Economics group (I'm a fellow traveller....)

Central Banks rewarded for failure with new powers

As Obama's campaign promise of finally introducing universal provision of basic health care in the United States (and thereby finally catching up with 19th-century Germany) is being quietly shelved, the transfer of power to the banking community is coming close to completion.

The former head of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York--for all practical means and purposes the true central bank of the United States--in his current role as U.S. treasury secretary has proposed to give more powers to the privately owned U.S. central bank. The ostensible excuse is that it should be given the allegedly new brief of ensuring the health and stability of the overall financial system--as the "systemic risk regulator." Apparently the Federal Reserve Board needs more staff, more resources and greater legal powers to do this.

But this brief was precisely why the Fed was founded in the first place in 1914, against much resistance from Congress. It was argued at the time that only by having a privately owned cartel of bankers' interests, which is given the government's prerogative to create and allocate money, can the bankers ensure that their speculative excesses won't create massive recessions, bankruptcies and large-scale unemployment.

It was hardly a convincing argument--just as it has hardly been a convincing case that bankers need to be given billions and trillions of taxpayers' money in the past half year or so as soon as some of their big bets went sour, after they had made billions and trillions of profits from their speculative gambling.

Then, just as now, the bankers got their way nevertheless. They are a persuasive lot. Their powers of persuasion may have to do with the fact that already at the time (just as today) they were the creators of the majority of the money supply. If money speaks volumes, money creators have a monopoly on the library.....continued



Modern conservatives engage in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.Galbraith
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 03:19:58 PM EST


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