European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 12 July

by Fran
Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 04:29:17 PM EST

 A Daily Review Of International Online Media 


Europeans on this date in history:

1892 – Birth of Bruno Schulz, a Polish writer, graphic artist and literary critic, who is widely regarded as one of the great Polish-language prose stylists of the 20th century. (d. 1942)

More here and here

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 EUROPE 



Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:10:37 AM EST
BBC NEWS | World | Europe | French 'Barbarian' killer jailed

The leader of a Paris gang has been sentenced to life in prison in France for the torture and murder of a Jewish man, Ilam Halimi, in 2006.

Youssouf Fofana, 28, the only member of the Barbarians gang facing a murder charge, will serve at least 22 years.

Mr Halimi was held by the gang for more than three weeks before being found by a railway line. He was handcuffed to a tree, naked and severely burned.

His death prompted mass protests in France against anti-Semitism.

Prosecutors had asked for the maximum sentence for Fofana - the life sentence means he must serve a minimum of 22 years.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:30:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
EU governments slice €600m off 2010 budget | Policies | Economics | Budget | European Voice
Ministers agree reductions but budget will still be higher than in 2009.

EU governments agreed today (10 July) to cut the proposed budget for 2010 by €613 million compared to the initial draft budget presented by the European Commission in April.

Budget ministers agreed at a meeting in Brussels to set the budget for 2010 at €137.944 billion in commitments. In terms of payments, the reduction compared to the Commission's proposal is even larger. EU governments agreed to reduce the amount in payments by €1.794bn to €120.520bn.

The payments budget is the amount of money that the Commission expects to pay out in the budget year, while the commitments budget, which is a higher figure, includes money earmarked for multi-annual programmes but not necessarily paid out in that budget year.

Even with these reductions, the budget for 2010 will be 3.06% higher than the 2009 budget in terms of commitments and 3.81% higher in terms of payments. The Commission had proposed a 3.52% increase in commitments and 5.36% in payments.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 04:28:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Anger erupts over Dresden 'veil murder' | NRS-Import | Deutsche Welle | 11.07.2009
The murder of an Egyptian woman in a German courtroom at the beginning of July is causing outrage among Muslims in Germany, Egypt and Iran. Muslims accuse the German government of playing down the matter.
(...)
Since the murder small protests have taken place in Cairo and within the German domestic population. Further demonstrations are planned for Sunday.

 What has surprised and angered Muslims in Germany and elsewhere is the slow response made by the German government to the incident and the apparent indifference of the German press.

The Berlin-based daily Der Tagesspiegel asked on Thursday: "Why was the death of a veiled woman, who was not the victim of an 'honor crime', only news in brief for a whole week?"

The German press buried the report of the murder on the back pages and have since focused on the issue of security in German courts rather than the racist aspect of the killing.

German government takes one week to issue response

The incident occurred on July 1 but the German government took until July 8 to issue a statement of condolence.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 04:36:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why was the death of a veiled woman, who was not the victim of an 'honor crime', only news in brief for a whole week?

Wrong veil?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 06:52:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Christopher Bickerton: Europe's New Politics of Hard Times

Recent crises have discredited political institutions. The economic crisis has raised doubts about the capacity of governments to manage the markets. The crisis in political representation - from British MPs' expenses scandal to the fuss over Berlusconi's relationship with minors - has left many people disaffected and disenchanted with their elected representatives. But these sentiments have not given birth to anything new. Anti-establishment figures will continue to emerge but only as charismatic individuals, not as embodiments of new political ideas. This was the lesson of Declan Ganley's European crusade.

There is no European lurch to the right. There is an entrenchment of populism as the new political opposition in Europe - but one that remains devoid of political ideas, unable to transform people's anger and mistrust of the establishment into a new political vision or programme.



If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:04:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The failure of finance and political representation are intertwined. money buys the polticians irrespective of the democratic ballot. Finance has failed but ensures that there is no political will to wash it clean. As the financial failure has an overwhelming impact on everybody's lives, the lack of action on this front ensures we are left with the politics of bread and circuses.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:39:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
 ECONOMY & FINANCE 



Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:11:01 AM EST
Praying for a revolution in economics | Alex Andrews | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Last year the former head of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan, made a quite astonishing admission. Asked if his beliefs that free markets were an "unrivalled way to organise economies" had clouded his judgement and ability to prevent the financial crisis that tipped the global economy into recession, Greenspan responded that it might have, but it was now obvious that there was a "flaw in the model that I perceived is the critical functioning structure that defines how the world works". Finding this flaw had made him "distressed".

Greenspan's confession was seen by many for precisely what it was: a crisis of faith, the faith that unrestricted free markets would always act benevolently. It revealed what a few had been arguing for some time, that the character of neoliberal economics is essentially religious. This is counter-intuitive. Surely the policy of Greenspan and others is based on an understanding of the science of economics, particularly in the mainstream neoclassical form that is most often taught in universities around the world? It is certainly the case that neoclassical economics appears scientific. This is because it deploys huge quantities of complex mathematics, giving it the veneer of being what it has long hoped to be, a kind of social physics.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:21:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, increasingly the "science" of economics is revealed as having the same rational basis as "Creation science". In voodoo and superstition.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:42:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
FT.com / Columnists / Lunch with the FT - Lunch with the FT: Larry Summers

This combination of long-term reforms and an immediate crisis reminds me of the last global financial meltdown I watched Summers, then deputy secretary of the Treasury, help navigate. It was 1998, the year of Asian contagion and Russia's default and devaluation. Emerging market veterans of that crash have taken a certain bitter pleasure in pointing out that this time their former rescuer and scold - the United States - is at the centre of the world's crisis, and in observing that Americans seem markedly less keen on their own unpalatable medicine now that they are the patient.

"I don't think I would quite accept the characterisation that we're in the position that the Russians were in in 1998," Summers says when I draw the comparison. "The crises that we addressed during the 1990s internationally, in almost every case, took the form of a foreign lack of confidence in a country that led to a mass withdrawal of funds and made reassuring foreigners the central priority. That's why interest rates often had to be increased. The American problem this time has more in common, at least qualitatively, with the Japanese post-bubble problem, where the issue was not reassuring foreigners but maintaining sufficient domestic demand to push the economy forward."

He does, however, concede that fire-fighting feels different when it is your own home that is alight: "There have been moments, certainly, when I understood better some of the reactions of officials in crisis countries now than one was able to from the outside at the time. It is easier to be for more radical solutions when one lives thousands of miles away than when it is one's own country."
(...)
This new American economy, Summers hopes, will be "more export-oriented" and "less consumption-oriented"; "more environmentally oriented" and "less energy-production-oriented"; "more bio- and software- and civil-engineering-oriented and less financial-engineering-oriented"; and, finally, "more middle-class-oriented" and "less oriented to income growth that is disproportionate towards a very small share of the population". Unlike many other economists, Summers does not believe that lower growth is the inevitable price of this economic paradigm shift.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 04:44:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This new American economy, Summers hopes, will be "more export-oriented" and "less consumption-oriented"; "more environmentally oriented" and "less energy-production-oriented"; "more bio- and software- and civil-engineering-oriented and less financial-engineering-oriented"; and, finally, "more middle-class-oriented" and "less oriented to income growth that is disproportionate towards a very small share of the population". Unlike many other economists, Summers does not believe that lower growth is the inevitable price of this economic paradigm shift.

how does that last sentence fit with the rest of that paragraph ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:44:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not So Fast | The Hill | 9 July 2009

The amendment passed Thursday seeks to nullify Obama's signing statement by withholding funds from any agreement involving the Treasury Department that doesn't follow the conditions set out in the supplemental bill...."Sometimes, the only way the votes can be found to provide the funds the admin wants is to provide certain limitations on the money," [David] Obey said Thursday in a floor speech criticizing Obama's signing statement.

backstory, 26 June 2009

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 05:29:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good for Congress to find the spine to oppose Presidential signing statements... but why couldn't they oppose Bush's, too?

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 05:38:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I dunno why the would not and don't care anymore. I don't even know why they would not "oppose" WH disrespect of subpoenas. And I haven't looked up this particular piece of legislation to verify that gaping administrative holes are sewn tight. Enough to forestall DOJ defenses. This fiscal year, much less the next.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by MarketTrustee on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 07:06:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, those IOU's have a really high interest! 3.75 % but due in October!

I mean, shouldn't it be a great idea to buy them from ordinary people, given that ordinary Americans often take out so called "pay-day" loans at far higher interests?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 03:46:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What is the default probability?

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 04:58:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's the punctum saliens...

LOL, maybe there's already credit default swaps for these IOU's?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:11:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Stop thinking like a speculator. That way lies madness.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:12:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes yes, and still, when have CDS's had any predicitive ability anyway...

It's just that credit (gah stop inventing new names like "fixed income" all the time!) markets have started fascinating me (especially corporate bonds are interesting in a time of infinitesmal government coupons).

I blame you and Jerome.

And yes, the current crisis is partly due to people who don't really knew what they were doing started looking for higher yielding bonds, there's no need mentioning it. ;)

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:19:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
when have CDS's had any predicitive ability anyway

That's not what markets are about. CDS price default risk, they don't predict it.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:47:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I do know that, we've discussed stuff like this earlier. My point being that even if derivatives actually do not predict stuff, that's how they're described in the media by the conventional wisdom, eh, wisdom-ers.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:49:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Remember this thread?

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:04:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Never seen it before.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:13:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ellen Hodgson Brown: California Dreamin'
California's taxpayers and legislators are doing the right thing digging in their heels and drawing the line at further austerity measures. California is being watched not only by the nation but by the world. We the people did not precipitate this credit crisis; the banks did. We should not have to pay for the damage with increased taxes or decreased services or our public parks and parking meters. Like the American colonists, we can replace the old model with something better. If California legislators act quickly, they can have a State-owned bank up and running before their 45-day IOUs run out. With today's new online banking possibilities, the State would not even need to invest in a "brick and mortar" building. The whole business could be done by computer. Weary legislators trying to agree on a budget could all shake hands and go home, without budging an inch from their respective platforms. They could have it all, and so could we the people.


If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:19:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Californians have been spending more than they've been earning. There's no way you can get away from that fact, including blaming banks.

Austerity is needed, this just seems such an extremely bad time for it (Hoover here we come).

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:21:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Austerity is needed, this just seems such an extremely bad time for it (Hoover here we come).

Yeah, let's make the oscillations of the economic cycle deeper by being "sensible".

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:45:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's really quite fascinating how Keynesian management of the business cycle was abandoned for being "politically impossible", except in the cases when you manage the cycle with Keynesians means to increase the osciallations. It's just not here in California we see that, but in lots of places during the Asian crisis, the Latin American crises of the 90's and so on.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:53:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I luvs me sum Friedmanite Monetarist Capitalism.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:09:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Keynes:
Thus we are so sensible, have schooled ourselves to so close a semblant of prudent financiers, taking careful thought before we add to the 'financial' burdens of posterity by building them houses to live in, that we have no such easy escape from the sufferings of unemployment. We have to accept them as inevitable results of applying to the conduct of the State the maxims which are best calculated to 'enrich' an individual by enabling him to pile up claims to enjoyment which he does not intend to exercise at any definite time.
We have learned nothing. Worse, we have forgotten what we once learned.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:14:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Great Keynes quote.

We have learned nothing. Worse, we have forgotten what we once learned.

Common Krugmanite theme...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:21:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Starvid
Californians have been spending more than they've been earning.

True, but irrelevant to the state's problem.  That is caused by a highly pro-cyclical state tax structure that is heavily dependent on sales and income taxes.  When the economy tanks, so does state revenue, just when it is needed the most.  The best solution would be an additional 0.5% tax on real property worth more than $1,000,000, inflation adjusted. The rate could increase for more valuable holdings.  This would extract revenue from those who have assets and are withdrawing capital from the market due to uncertainty and put it to work countering the downturn.  An alternative would be to increase the assessment rate for properties with an ocean view, (or any real view), Mediterranean climate, etc.  All of these would require a change to the state constitution, which should be the ultimate goal of any real reform.  

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 02:15:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Transcript | The Science of Trust: Economics and Virtue [Speaking of Faith® from American Public Media]

Ms. Tippett: Before Bernard Madoff, Jeffrey Skilling and Kenneth Lay were icons of a gross violation of the trust of employees, shareholders, government, and customers. But in a book he edited, Moral Markets, Paul Zak also told the lesser-known story of Cliff Baxter. Baxter was a vice chairman of Enron who protested corruption as he saw it grow internally. He resigned his position in 2001, just a few months before Enron's collapse began. In early 2002, as the human cost of Enron's excesses unfolded, he apparently committed suicide. By many accounts, Cliff Baxter had a strong moral code. His story is a contrast to generalizations fueled by high-profile coverage of out-of-control corrupt executives. But Paul Zak sees it as an exemplar of the moral inclination for which human physiology equips us, given the right circumstances.

Mr. Zak: So let's bring some science to bear in this. So I just made a bunch of perhaps interesting or outlandish claims about people having sort of a moral sense. But in the last five years, we've begun to find the chemical basis for this. And we've discovered this molecule called oxytocin that lives in the human brain, and in particular human beings, it's particularly potent at making us care about the outcomes of others. So we initially found that when someone trusts you with their money intentionally -- "I'm going to give you $20 and let you control it" -- that the more money someone entrusts to you, the more your brain releases this molecule and the more you tend to reciprocate. When the person says, "Would you like to give some of that back to me," even though you don't have to, you do. We've now found this substantiates generosity. If I have more, you have less and visa versa. When we give people, human beings, synthetic oxytocin we can induce them to be more generous towards strangers, more generous towards charities.

And we very recently found that when we watch and we show experimental subjects an emotionally compelling video, a video of a man whose four-year-old son has terminal brain cancer, that there's a big spike in the release of oxytocin, and people are subsequently much more generous towards a stranger. They're more generous towards charities. So somehow this molecule in our brain has allowed us to live in large groups of people where we have something in our heads that says, "This person safe, this person not. This person, I want to be around, this person I don't want to be around." So it's kind of a trust detector. And in a very real sense, it connects us to other people. It allows me to sort of emotionally mirror what other people are doing. And classically, oxytocin is associated with childbirth, reproduction in mammals.

excellent podcast, this is from the transcript.

imagine being able to deal with the sociopathic 2% through nontoxic brain chemistry!

If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 09:56:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
 WORLD 



Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:11:17 AM EST
Eight British soldiers killed in bloodiest day of Afghan mission | UK news | The Guardian

Ministers were bracing themselves for an increasingly bloody conflict in Afghanistan as it became clear that a further eight British soldiers have been killed in 24 hours, the worst combat death toll since the war began.

Five troops were killed in a single incident after they were caught in a bomb blast while on foot patrol. Officials confirmed that 15 troops have been killed in the last 10 days. With the government's handling of the conflict under increasing scrutiny, Gordon Brown was forced to defend the Afghan mission as he left the G8 summit in Italy. Before heading directly to a private briefing at the military's operational headquarters at Northwood, Middlesex, he warned of a "very hard summer ... It's not over".



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:14:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | UK | Troops 'fighting for UK's future'

Foreign Secretary David Miliband has insisted fighting in Afghanistan is key to ensuring UK security, after eight soldiers were killed in 24 hours.

Some 184 service personnel have died there since 2001, more than the 179 killed during the war in Iraq.

But Mr Miliband dismissed calls for UK forces to withdraw, saying they were stopping Afghanistan becoming "a launch pad for attacks" by terrorists.

"This is about the future of Britain," he added.

Fifteen soldiers have died in 10 days in southern Afghanistan as UK troops continue Operation Panchai Palang, or Panther's Claw.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:27:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Wales:
This is about the future of Britain

Where did the only serious recent terrorist attack in Britain come from, then, David?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 02:49:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is it time to research the continuous domestic delusions that enabled the vietnam war ? Cos this fetid bs sounds stale before they say it.

And the number of ministers scrambling to TV screens and writing opeds in the papers suggests they have just noticed they're losing the propaganda war. Who is our Walter Cronkite ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:51:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama: Time to end tyranny in Africa | World news | guardian.co.uk

In his first visit to Africa since taking office, Barack Obama said today that the continent of his ancestors must overcome tyranny and corruption if it is to flourish.

Speaking in Ghana's parliament, Obama said the key to Africa's future prosperity was democratic and accountable government.

"Development depends upon good governance. That is the ingredient which has been missing in far too many places, for far too long. That is the change that can unlock Africa's potential," he said.

In an tough speech aimed at politicians across the continent, he gave an unsentimental account of squandered opportunities since the end of colonial rule. "No country is going to create wealth if its leaders exploit the economy to enrich themselves, or police can be bought off by drug traffickers," he said.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:14:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | World | Africa | Obama speaks of hopes for Africa

US President Barack Obama, on his first trip to sub-Saharan Africa since taking office, has said Africa must take charge of its own destiny in the world.

Mr Obama also told parliament during his one-day stay in Ghana that good governance was vital for development.

Major challenges awaited Africans in the new century, he said, but vowed that the US would help the continent.

The US president's trip comes at the end of a summit of eight of the world's most powerful nations, held in Italy.

Ghana was chosen as the destination for the president's visit because of its strong democratic record.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:28:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Africa aid must be matched by good governance - Obama | World | Reuters

ACCRA (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama told Africans on Saturday that Western aid must be matched by good governance and urged them to take greater responsibility for stamping out war, corruption and disease plaguing the continent.

Obama delivered the message on his first visit to sub-Saharan Africa since taking office in January as the first black U.S. president. He chose stable, democratic Ghana because he believes it can serve as a model for the rest of Africa.

Fresh from a G8 summit where leaders agreed to spend $20 billion (12.3 billion pounds) to improve food security in poor countries, Obama spoke of a "new moment of promise" but stressed that Africans must also take a leading role in sorting out their many problems.

"Development depends upon good governance," Obama said in a speech to Ghana's parliament. "That is the ingredient which has been missing in far too many places, for far too long. That is the change that can unlock Africa's potential. And that is a responsibility that can only be met by Africans."



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:44:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Developing countries urge G8 to impose 40% emissions cut by 2020 | World news | guardian.co.uk

Developing nations are prepared to make concessions on climate change targets if the G8 fulfils its side of the bargain in the run-up to the climate change talks in Copenhagen in December, a key negotiator told the Guardian today.

The developing countries want the G8 nations to sign up to a 40% cut by 2020, but that figure is off the radar of the EU and, given the unwieldy legislation laboriously passing through the senate, not a possibility for the US.

In important forward steps this week, the G8 agreed to cut its emissions by 80% by 2050 and said worldwide emissions should fall 50% by the same date.

However, the value of this pledge has been reduced by the lack of an agreed start date from which the emission cuts should be measured, making it a distant promise.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:15:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
G8 admits its failure to meet Gleneagles aid pledges - World Politics, World - The Independent

The world's richest nations will fail to meet their landmark pledge made at the 2005 Gleneagles summit to double aid to the poorest countries.

Officials at the G8 summit in Italy said yesterday there was "little chance" the eight countries would keep the promises they made at the meeting four years ago to double their aid to $50bn (£30bn) a year by next year.

While Britain is on course to meet its target share, Italy and France are falling short. They resisted pressure at the G8 summit this week from leaders including US President Barack Obama and Gordon Brown to increase their contributions before next year's deadline. "We will keep our promises," one British source said, "but overall it's not going to happen".



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:59:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
North Korea launched cyber attacks, says south | World news | guardian.co.uk

South Korea has obtained intelligence that North Korea ordered a military institute of computer hackers known as Lab 110 to "destroy" its neighbour's communications networks last month, news reports said.

The National Intelligence Service told parliament of its finding on Friday, the JoongAng Ilbo newspaper reported, citing evidence the north was behind cyber attacks that paralysed major South Korean and US websites in recent days.

The newspaper, citing unidentified members of the parliament's intelligence committee, said Lab 110, which is affiliated with the north's defence ministry, received an order to "destroy the South Korean puppet communications networks in an instant".

The JoongAng Ilbo said Lab 110 specialised in hacking and spreading malicious programmes.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:15:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
British Airways jet evacuated as smoke fills cabin | World news | guardian.co.uk

Hundreds of passengers have been evacuated from a British Airways jet after smoke filled the cabin just before take-off.

The Boeing 747 had been preparing to depart for Heathrow from Phoenix Airport in Arizona this morning when passengers reported an acrid smell. All on board escaped down the plane's emergency slides.

A passenger on flight BA288, Corinne Casazza, said: "There was this really strong smell of fuel and I could hear people panicking behind me. They were upset and finding it hard to breathe because of the smell.

"People were coughing and choking and those with children were very worried and so they brought them to the front where they could breathe.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:17:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
does anyone know why the cabin air intakes are inside the engines ? I'm no expert but it seems stupid to me.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:53:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Swine flu victim had no other health issues | World news | The Guardian

The first death from swine flu of an otherwise healthy individual was announced last night by NHS authorities in Essex.

At the wishes of the family, no details were given of the patient who died at Basildon and Thurrock University hospital. But the case will cause widespread concern. Until now, every adult and child who has died has had serious underlying health problems that made them particularly vulnerable to infections.

But the chief medical officer, Sir Liam Donaldson, has warned that a few apparently healthy people have succumbed to swine flu and become seriously ill abroad. In one case last month, a healthy 15-year-old teenager called Matthew Davis from Buffalo in New York state, fell ill with swine flu and died, apparently because of co-infection with the superbug MRSA, which he may have contracted in the community rather than in hospital.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:18:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
'Epidemiologists' Probe Designer Flu for Fit | Bloomberg | 11 July 2009

Doctors tracking the pandemic say they see a pattern in hospital reports from Glasgow to Melbourne and from Santiago to New York. People infected with the bug who have a body mass index greater than 40, deemed morbidly obese, suffer respiratory complications that are harder to treat and can be fatal....Drugmaker Roche Holding AG is combing through studies to determine whether heavier people should get bigger doses of its Tamiflu antiviral....

In Canada's Manitoba province, three out of five people treated for the new flu strain in intensive care units are obese, said Ethan Rubenstein, head of infectious diseases at the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg....

Scotland, where deep-fried foods such as Mars bars and pizzas contribute to the highest obesity rate in Europe, reported the continent's first two deaths from H1N1 and has experienced a fifth of the region's fatalities.....

No deaths or severely ill patients have been recorded from among the 2,146 laboratory-confirmed cases in Japan, said Yasuyuki Abe, a health ministry spokesman in Tokyo. Only 1.6 percent of adults in Japan are obese, according to the WHO....

Some patients are showing up at hospitals with viral pneumonia so severe they are suffocating. The first two people to die from the bug in Peru -- a 38- year-old woman and a 4-year-old girl from impoverished areas on the outskirts of Lima -- were both obese, El Peruano newspaper reported on July 6. ...

Of the first 32 people who died from swine flu in New York City, three-quarters had one or more underlying medical conditions, most often diabetes and heart disease, said Isaac B. Weisfuse, deputy commissioner of disease control at the city's Department of Health and Mental Hygiene. Of seven with no known medical condition, at least four were reported to be obese, Weisfuse said.



Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by MarketTrustee on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 07:23:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are obese people more likely to die from seasonal flu, too?

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 07:28:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"It's the first time that the prominence of obesity has been noticed among severely ill flu sufferers, Fauci said in an interview yesterday. "It's very likely that if we went back retrospectively and looked at people who did poorly during seasonal flu, what would shake out is that obesity would be one of the risks," he said.

fishing expedition

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 07:35:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Respiratory function in the morbidly obese before and after weight loss.
The morbidly obese are known to have impaired respiratory function.
From the abstract of a 1989 paper.


The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 07:44:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How does this information inform therapy of viral pneumonia, proximate cause of H1N1 death? Or justify a public health policy of indiscriminate vaccination with experimental media?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by MarketTrustee on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 12:36:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How is it surprising that obese people would die more frequently from complications of flu? They start out with impaired lung function.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:08:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not surprising to me. What is "surprising" to me is the rhetorical significance of obesity assigned to H1N1 morbidity as compared to the gamut of "risk factors" also identified with infection.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by MarketTrustee on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 10:42:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Let's see. When a vaccination campaign is carried out, "at risk" populations are vaccinated in preference to others, especially if there is not enough vaccine for everyone.

Normally the seasonal flu kills the elderly, those with preexisting respiratory conditions, etc. And so, those are the people who get vaccinated in preference.

In this case, if it is true that serious flu cases seem to belong to the 20-45 age bracket you don't have to vaccinate the elderly as you do in seasonal flu: you'd have to vaccinate the 20-45 age group.

Similarly, if it turns out that the mortality rate (given infection) is higher in obese people, you would consider vaccinating the obese in preference to other groups.

And so on.

So, yes, you would have to consider a gamut of risk factors both influencing susceptibility to infection and the severity of the disease.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 11:33:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
m'K. Add to age, BMI exposure...

The bug is reported [country distribution page links to WHO map] to have killed 429 people worldwide since its discovery in the U.S. and Mexico in April. The infection, which has now spread as far as New Zealand and Norway, causes little more than a fever and cough in most cases. The majority of those who died were pregnant, had asthma, diabetes or  other chronic diseases, according to the WHO.

... and you get in effect (almighty cost-basis) a formula for indiscriminate vaccination in countries where >50% of the total population exhibit one or more of these "risk factors" in addition to age, BMI. The US ($1.85B) and UK, f'r instance where (purportedly it is NOT true "serious flu cases seem to belong to the 20-45 age bracket") chronic flatulence may constitute unacceptable infection risk at some indeterminate point in time.

5-day Vaccine Trial | Times | 12 July 2009

Regulators at the European Medicines Agency (EMEA) said the fast-tracked procedure has involved clinical trials of a "mock-up" vaccine similar [!!] to the one that will be used for the biggest mass vaccination programme in generations. It will be introduced into the general population while regulators continue to carry out simultaneous clinical trials. ...

The UK government has ordered enough vaccine to cover the entire population. GPs are being told to prepare for a nationwide vaccination campaign....

He said although swine flu was not causing serious illness in patients, health officials were eager to start a mass vaccination campaign, starting first on priority groups....

The Department of Health said it had still not finalised which groups would be vaccinated first, but children, frontline health workers, people with underlying illnesses and the elderly are likely to take priority.

Lemme tell you something: We are not discussing reasonable public health policy. We are not evaluating evidence of 'pandemic' morbidity or even therapeutic relief. We're watching a movie in which my child is a captive, unnamed extra.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 09:51:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's not a fishing expedition, it's a test of an epidemiological hypothesis on a different data set than the one which suggested the hypothesis.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 09:04:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
By "fishing expedition" I mean a statistical exercise to describe correlation of a sample's characteristics as if determinative or causative pathogen per se. In the context of this article the expert proposes only retrospective survey of influenza-related deaths to incidence of decendents' obesity. Would it be erroneous or correct if readers infer then that

(a) obesity is a requisite condition of influenza?
(b) influenza is a requisite condition of obesity?
(c) obesity is a requisite of influenza-related death?
(d) none of the above

Otherwise, to what hypothesis and what dataset do you refer?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 11:14:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
WTF?

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 07:39:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
only celebrating to the remarkably cosmopolitan provenance of H1N1,

It was also determined that the strain contained genes from four different flu viruses: North American swine influenza, North American avian influenza, human influenza, and two swine influenza viruses typically found in Asia and Europe....

According to the researchers, movement of live pigs between Eurasia and North America* "seems to have facilitated the mixing of diverse swine influenza viruses, leading to the multiple reassortment events associated with the genesis of the (new H1N1) strain."...

as of early June 2009, Schuchat reported "encouraging news" regarding any mutations to date, by announcing that samples of the virus from points around the globe are "genetically identical" to the strain found in the United States. "We have tested isolates from a wide geographic area, from the Americas, Europe, from Asia and New Zealand and we are not seeing variations in isolates from the genetic testing we do here."

-----
*LIVESTOCK import/export

Choices,2005:"Since the implementation of CUSTA, Canadian exports of live hogs to the United States have grown from 1.1 million head in 1989 to 8.5 million head in 2004, accounting for all but a few hundred head of US hog imports (Figure 4). ...Most US hog exports to Mexico have been for slaughter, averaging 86% of the total since the implementation of NAFTA. In 1992, 1997, and 2002, slightly more than one half of US hog exports to Mexico were for breeding. US hog exports to Mexico during 2004 were 138,775 head and accounted for 80% of US exports. Other US hog exports, particularly those to China, Hong Kong, Japan, and Korea, are mainly breeding stock...."

AgMRC.org,2006:"Canada accounts for the majority of total U.S. pork imports. Live hog imports totaled 8.7 million head in 2006. USDA reports 66 percent of the live imports are typically feeder pigs. The remaining percent are slaughter-ready animals. The Foreign Ag Service claims the United States and Canadian pork markets are increasingly integrated in the movement of live pigs. Denmark comprises 10 percent of U.S. pork imports. ... Live hog exports from the United States have averaged less than 1 percent of total U.S. hog slaughter. In 2006, the United States exported 164,464 live hogs. More than 90 percent of the live exports go to Mexico with the balance being sold to Asian countries as breeding stock."

FinalCall,2007:"The UN Food and Agriculture Organization recently released a study called "The State of the World's Animal Genetic Resources," which found that an over-reliance on some breeds of livestock imported from the United States and Europe--including Holstein-Friesian cows, egg-laying White Leghorn chickens, and fast-growing large white pigs--is causing the loss of at least one indigenous livestock breed per month."

etc etc

I'll leave the trail of live poultry to you


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 12:12:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
From the link re movement of live pigs from Eurasia to N America:

New flu has been around for years in pigs - study | Reuters

WASHINGTON, June 11 (Reuters) - The new H1N1 virus, which has caused the first pandemic of the 21st century, appears to have been circulating undetected among pigs for years, researchers reported on Thursday.

Although health officials have been watching for new influenza viruses in humans, animal health regulators have missed the opportunity to check swine, the researchers reported.

Britons Andrew Rambaut of the University of Edinburgh and Oliver Pybus of Oxford University, and Yi Guan of the University of Hong Kong examined the genetic sequence of the new H1N1 swine flu virus.

Like others who have done the same, they show it is a mixture of other viruses that had been circulating in pigs, one of which was itself a mixture including swine, human and avian-like genetic sequences.

"We show that it was derived from several viruses circulating in swine, and that the initial transmission to humans occurred several months before recognition of the outbreak," they wrote.

"Movement of live pigs between Eurasia and North America seems to have facilitated the mixing of diverse swine influenza viruses, leading to the multiple reassortment events associated with the genesis of the (new H1N1) strain," they added.

"Yet despite widespread influenza surveillance in humans, the lack of systematic swine surveillance allowed for the undetected persistence and evolution of this potentially pandemic strain for many years."

They said this new pandemic "provides further evidence of the role of domestic pigs in the ecosystem of influenza A."


When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 03:01:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Movement of live pigs between Eurasia and North America

My notes should be leading readers to the conclusion that (a) North America (Canada, USA) does not import live pigs (or poultry) from Eurasia; (b) North America exports livestock (cattle, swine, poultry) to all points south (e.g. Mexico) and east (e.g. China); and (c) breed of NA export livestock is limited by design to support mass marketing conditions and yield.

Asian producers are net importers of intermediate and finished meat products from NA.

This information is not controversial, but the 'epidemiologists' consulted imply bilateral trade parity contributes to H1N1 genetic anomaly, although distribution of reported H1N1 infection does not support that conclusion.

In other words, they are reluctant to attribute ideal H1N1 culture to NA livestock.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 09:25:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you google "designer flu" you get lots of hits on "designer flu masks" and some discussions from conspiracy theorists who believe it is a bioweapon out of a laboratory.

Therefore I'm a bit shocked to find th term in a Reuters headline.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:09:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See, there's the difference in our symbolic-analytic work objectives: I don't "google" anything, least of all "designer" trivia. Why would I, when I can get all my news (as versions) from bloomberg? Bwah!

Or the venerable wiki footnotes: the assumption that H1N1 genome derives from livestock (not intermediate or finished goods) trade between Eurasia and North America is not supported by data in the PR. Why?

I search the interboobz for the phrases "US live hog imports","US livestock imports","US live hog imports from asia" and so forth. Aside from the trades (selected, above), yahoo! returned a butt-load of NM customs and USDA pages.I t's the end of the day though, so I don't download the pdf or zip data tables to mine two lines (hogs, poultry) out of cattle exports seven ways to Sunday in each of the past 20 years.

I've assembled sufficient information to posit a pathogenic origin of H1N1: US feed, breed "crops" and technical stock exports.

As opposed to morbid obesity.

I'm going to read that UN report in its entirety. How 'bout you?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 08:55:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've assembled sufficient information to posit a pathogenic origin of H1N1: US feed, breed "crops" and technical stock exports.

As opposed to morbid obesity.

Did I posit morbid obesity as an origin for H1N1?

All I said is that I don't find it surprising that the morbidly obese might be more susceptible to the opportunistic infections that actually kill flu patients since their lungs are already under strain from all that extra fat. Therefore I asked whether obesity is a factor in seasonal flu mortality. If it isn't, then the link to obesity is specific to the new flu and therefore interesting.

The fact that current farm practices are conducive to breeding new disease strains should not be controversial.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 09:03:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Untwist your panties.

All I said is that I don't find it surprising ... If it isn't, then the link to obesity is specific to the new flu and therefore interesting.

So I gathered and retrieved a quote from the bloomberg article to illustrate a dimension of the experts' indifference to H1N1 pathogenesis. Obesity should be uninteresting to epidemiologists who purport to investigate the origin and propagation of communicable disease precisely because it is a pre-existing condition, characteristic, of morbidity per se.

Try to magine my dismay then as I read this ridiculous article.

The fact that current farm practices are conducive to breeding new disease strains should not be controversial.

Quite. But institutional medical PR avoids industrial  analyses and prophylatic recommendations, preferring to promote palliatives case by case.

That is, in my book, a failure of public offices, made all the more disturbing and dismal by persisting communications to characterize H1N1 symptoms as a threat to humanity so far greater than obesity, diabetes, hypertension, HPV, CHF, COPD, prostate cancer and erectile dysfunction, war, and of course life-style

as to warrant mandatory vaccination.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 10:17:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Deep-fried pizzas?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:48:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BWAH! I threw up a little as I read
Drugmaker Roche Holding AG is combing through studies to determine whether heavier people should get bigger doses of its Tamiflu antiviral

hello?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 12:27:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Bomb rips through market in Iraq

A car bomb has killed four people and injured 40 at a market on the outskirts of the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, police sources told the BBC.

All of those killed or injured in the blast in Kukchali, a mixed Sunni-Shia area to the east of Mosul, are believed to be civilians.

Mosul, with its volatile ethnic and religious mix, has seen numerous attacks by insurgents.

The blast comes less than two weeks after US troops left Iraqi cities.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:29:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Iran prepares package to offer West | World | Reuters

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran is preparing a new package of "political, security and international" issues to put to the West, its foreign minister said on Saturday.

"The package can be a good basis for talks with the West. The package will contain Iran's stances on political, security and international issues," Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki told a news conference.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy said on Wednesday that the Group of Eight major powers would give Iran until September to accept negotiations over its nuclear ambitions or face tougher sanctions.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:41:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome Starkey: The deadly task of fighting against an invisible enemy - Commentators, Opinion - The Independent

The grim toll of soldiers coming home from Afghanistan in coffins is testimony to the brutal contest being waged in the poppy fields of Helmand. For three years, British troops have been massively undermanned, underequipped and overstretched as they have tried to convince a deeply cynical population that they are safe from the Taliban.

Most of the province was beyond the reach of British forces. When the troops did come, they rarely stayed. Far from feeling safe, the people watched as the Taliban grew stronger. But the arrival of 8,000 US Marines in Barack Obama's surge is threatening to change the balance - and the Taliban are fighting back.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:50:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The handmaid's tale is full of woe. Funerals and weddings, alalalalalala

10 July 2009: After their closed-door meeting, Obama introduced the pope to his wife, Michelle, their daughters, Malia and Sasha, and Michelle Obama's mother, Marian Robinson. There was private exchange of gifts and moment for photographs. The pope gave each of the girls a silver key chain with a bas-relief image of the pope, and Michelle Obama and Robinson each received a papal medal....

In addition to the encyclical and Vatican bioethics document, Pope Benedict gave Obama a mosaic showing St. Peter's Basilica and Square and a medal marking the fifth year of his pontificate. --AmericanCatholic.org


DailyLife.com, gallery

Is Obama More Catholic Than the Pope? | Townsend | 9 July 2009

Politics requires the ability to listen to different points of view, to step into others' shoes. Obama might call it empathy. While the pope preaches love, listening to the other has been a particular stumbling block for the Catholic hierarchy (as it is for many in power). The hierarchy ignores women's equality and gays' cry for justice because to heed them would require that it admit error and acknowledge that the self-satisfied edifice constructed around sex and gender has been grievously wrong. Before he became John Paul II, Karol Wojtyla had a telling all-or-nothing formulation: "If it should be decided that contraception is not an evil in itself then we should have to concede frankly that the Holy Spirit is on the side of the Protestant Churches."

Is Obama More Catholic Than the Pope? | Reuters | 10 July 2009

In a surprise move, the pontiff gave Obama a booklet explaining Vatican opposition to practices such as abortion and embryonic stem cell research, which Obama supports. "Obama told the pope of his commitment to reduce the number of abortions and of his attention and respect for the positions of the Catholic Church," Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi told reporters after he was briefed by the pope.

Obama supports abortion rights and says his policy is to change economic and social conditions so as to put more women in situations where they do not feel they have to have an abortion....

The pope also gave the president a copy of his latest encyclical, "Charity in Truth," which called for a "world political authority" to manage the global economy and for more government regulation of national economies to pull the world out of the current crisis and avoid a repeat. Obama, who was going to the airport from the Vatican, joked to the pope when he gave him the two documents: "I'll have something to read on the plane." [emphasis added]

punk

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 05:20:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Note the continuing long black veil protocol. Respect for tradition, they say...

I wonder if Benny will bring back the covered female head for Mass, another wonderful tradition Vatican II did away with? Then we can all have an argument about the Catholic burqa.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 03:25:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My reaction exactly. What with this obsession of covering women's hair in the name of holy religion or tradition or whatever? Or, generally speaking, with old men deciding what females can or cannot wear?

It should be noted that French First Lady, (Italian born) Carla Bruni-Sarkozy, didn't don any such Catholic burqa when meeting Benedict in Paris earlier this year. Granted, it was not in the Vatican (Sarkozy visited the Vatican in December 2007 without Carla; they were not married yet).




Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 04:53:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
hehe, snarko's expression is priceless...

caption contest worth.

i'm getting: 'nice piece of ass, eh benny?'

If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:50:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
G8: Carla Bruni under fire for 'snobbery' - Telegraph
Carla Bruni, the wife of French president Nicolas Sarkozy, has been criticised by the Italian press for snobbery verging on 'boorishness' for snubbing the summit's official programme.

"Someone tell the first lady that snobbery to the nth degree where we come from is called boorishness," the paper Il Giornale said as the G8 was wrapping up in L'Aquila, central Italy.

On Thursday, the other G8 first ladies including Michelle Obama toured the city devastated by an April 6 earthquake, while Miss Bruni planned to visit the disaster zone on Friday.

Miss Bruni, who arrived in Italy late Thursday, also stayed away from the wives' audience with Pope Benedict XVI on Wednesday.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:22:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Berlusconi 'sorry' for newspaper's attack on Bruni - Yahoo! News

ROME (AFP) - Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi on Saturday said "sorry" for an editorial attack on France's first lady Carla Bruni for staying away from events organised for the Group of Eight summit.

Il Giornale newspaper, which is owned by Berlusconi's brother, had accused the Italian wife of French President Nicolas Sarkozy of "boorishness" for snubbing the official programme for G8 spouses.

"I was very upset and deeply sorry when I was told about the articles published in the Italian dailies, including Il Giornale, containing offensive remarks about Mme Carla Bruni, wife of the president of the French republic," Berlusconi said in a statement.

He said the comments were "out of place" and expressed his "esteem and friendship" for Bruni and Sarkozy.

Bruni came in for withering criticism from the right-wing daily on Friday.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:33:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was wondering about the veil too - and must say, I am starting to develop a little apreciation for Bruni. She was the only one of the wives who had the courage to snub Berlusconi and stay away from the Model/Minster lead tours and also avoided Benny.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:33:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
she is sooooooo excommunicaaaated....ooooo

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by MarketTrustee on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 11:45:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Shouldn't marrying a divorced man be enough for that ?

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misčres
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 08:11:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No. But marrying Sarkozy should be.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 11:41:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Newsweek | Independent's Day

It's the morning after Independence Day, and Eric Holder Jr. is feeling the weight of history. The night before, he'd stood on the roof of the White House alongside the president of the United States, leaning over a railing to watch fireworks burst over the Mall, the monuments to Lincoln and Washington aglow at either end. "I was so struck by the fact that for the first time in history an African-American was presiding over this celebration of what our nation is all about," he says. Now, sitting at his kitchen table in jeans and a gray polo shirt, as his 11-year-old son, Buddy, dashes in and out of the room, Holder is reflecting on his own role. He doesn't dwell on the fact that he's the country's first black attorney general. He is focused instead on the tension that the best of his predecessors have confronted: how does one faithfully serve both the law and the president?

Alone among cabinet officers, attorneys general are partisan appointees expected to rise above partisanship. All struggle to find a happy medium between loyalty and independence. Few succeed. At one extreme looms Alberto Gonzales, who allowed the Justice Department to be run like Tammany Hall. At the other is Janet Reno, whose righteousness and folksy eccentricities marginalized her within the Clinton administration. Lean too far one way and you corrupt the office, too far the other way and you render yourself impotent. Mindful of history, Holder is trying to get the balance right. "You have the responsibility of enforcing the nation's laws, and you have to be seen as neutral, detached, and nonpartisan in that effort," Holder says. "But the reality of being A.G. is that I'm also part of the president's team. I want the president to succeed; I campaigned for him. I share his world view and values."

These are not just the philosophical musings of a new attorney general. Holder, 58, may be on the verge of asserting his independence in a profound way. Four knowledgeable sources tell NEWSWEEK that he is now leaning toward appointing a prosecutor to investigate the Bush administration's brutal interrogation practices, something the president has been reluctant to do. While no final decision has been made, an announcement could come in a matter of weeks, say these sources, who decline to be identified discussing a sensitive law-enforcement matter. Such a decision would roil the country, would likely plunge Washington into a new round of partisan warfare, and could even imperil Obama's domestic priorities, including health care and energy reform. Holder knows all this, and he has been wrestling with the question for months. "I hope that whatever decision I make would not have a negative impact on the president's agenda," he says. "But that can't be a part of my decision."

Ruh-roh.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 08:36:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...adding: Fortunately, I'm sure the Department of Law can throw these out automatically....

(hehehehehehe)

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 08:38:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...adding: Also.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 08:46:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Newsweek | Independent's Day:
Such a decision [to investigate the Bush administration's brutal interrogation practices] could even imperil Obama's domestic priorities, including health care and energy reform.

.. as opposed to the present situation where Obama's priorities including health care and energy reforms are sailing swiftly with full bi-partisan support from the Republicans, right?

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 04:09:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Might explain why Obama set the deadline for August on health care.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 08:34:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
you betcha! wink, wink...

If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 10:05:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Want in a time of scarcity | The Agonist

After Dubya Dubya Two, America transformed from a largely agricultural economy to a raging industrial furnace. The stoppage of tank and airplane and bullet manufacturing took a couple of hard years to unwind, but it soon led to a very consciously constructed consumer/manufacturing society. All stops were removed.

The movers and shakers of that era purposely set out to hold up the Joneses as the American Dream, and whip everyone along to constantly try to keep up with them -- house in the suburbs, TV, car, kids in college, annual vacations, and all the latest and brightest products America could churn out. And jobs, jobs, jobs making all this stuff.

It went on for six decades, and then Dubya Dubya Bush (who cost us multiple times what Dubya Dubya Two ever did) presided over the burnout phase of that manic consumer economy that was actually based on debt-fueled growth.

Debt is a virus, you see, and it kills its host.

An economy that had originally provided good jobs for every man jack so he could buy all the shiny things America manufactured slowly morphed over the decades into the outsourcing of jobs to coolies overseas who would make the same product for a lot less. That eventually included everyone up the economic scale, including engineers, doctors, and rocket scientists.

All that money saved accrued to Wall Street, and moved into international circles. Offshore more and more. Interwoven and interconnected with debt-fueled money-making projects worldwide. If American taxes wanted a taste, well the whole scheme was moved offshore so no taxes needed to be paid.

The American economy increasingly became Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate (FIRE) after Reagan, and this increasingly became an international arena, not fundamentally connected to the day to day American economy.

During Dubya Dubya Bush's two terms, he presided over the looting of the Treasury and the earnings of the next generation or two as well. He took that treasure and firmly bet America's future -- it's economic survival -- overseas. He wagered everything on America winning at globalizing the world economy under its thumb, and winning some tasty resource wars over yonder, in lands where swarthy people live. Those wars were to be highly lucrative ventures from the get go.

After sixty years of chasing the Joneses, manufacturing is long gone, and mad consumption eventually burned itself out, burned right to the core about mid-2007, and it is never coming back. We have entered the post-consumption stage of empire's collapse. People are paying down debts, and saving about 7% on top of that, according to the recent news. They know its over. So does Wall Street.

So do the Feds.

At this point, the Federal Government has no reason to do much of anything for Americans except keep them in line, and keep them from costing Wall Street any progress on its international agenda, the agenda that America's survival depends on.

At this point, America's actual citizens, the point 3 billion of us walking around, are just a labor pool to Wall Street and the Government they own. And they need we, the people like they need a threesome with a pair of porcupines. Having taken our jobs, they now intend to take any equity we built up while we had jobs so they can use that equity on their globalization and war agenda.

They simply have to win that thing. The alternative . . .

At this point, there's no need for Americans to do any work except serve one another drinks and fast food and refinance one another's mortgages. Manufacturing is an overseas arena. Finance is an overseas arena. Empire is an overseas arena. America's future rides on what America accomplished overseas, not at home.

America's government is an overseas government, because that's where America's future has been wagered. The only measure of success for Wall Street and its Washington subsidiary is to push America's FIRE economy to the tippy top of a thoroughly globalized economy. They've got to win at that. Failing at that will be the most indescribable disaster of a financial collapse the human mind is capable of imagining.

So America's had its run, a good run, between the Dubya Dubyas. Sixty years of being the biggest, richest, baddest, mofo of an economy this planet has ever witnessed.

But it is really most seriously and sincerely over. The very forces set in motion back in the post-WWII decade proceeded to flourish, feed on themselves, and finally burn out, go up in credit-driven flames right down to the last phony mortgage-backed security. Since mid-2007, everyone's just standing around licking the icing bowl, but it's becoming very apparent that we had our cake, and we ate it, too.



If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 04:05:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At this point, there's no need for Americans to do any work except serve one another drinks and fast food and refinance one another's mortgages. Manufacturing is an overseas arena.
The US is the biggest manufacturer in the world.

Debt is a virus, you see, and it kills its host.
Is this guy German, or what?

Debt is a crucial part in financing investment. Debt doesn't need to mean consumer credit for plasma TV's and SUV's.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 04:40:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Rumbles on the Rim of China's Empire | New York Times
... Xinjiang has always been a great melting pot, a former hub on the Silk Road that today has 13 sizeable ethnic minority groups and borders eight countries. The concept of homeland is at the heart of the conflict. Uighurs shy away from openly framing the issue as one of independence and national sovereignty, but they ask: Who is the guest here? And whose culture and way of life should take precedence?

Though many Uighurs claim to be the indigenous people of the region, foreign historians say the Uighurs did not migrate from the Mongolian steppes to what is now Xinjiang until the 10th century. They eventually built tribal societies here, mostly around oasis towns along the southern edge of the large desert depression called the Tarim Basin. <...>

The race of first settlers, the Tocharians, herders who spoke an Indo-European language, died out long ago, Mr. Mair said, and there are no descendants to make historical claims on the land.

As for signs of the Chinese empire, the most prominent Chinese gravesites were discovered at a place called Astana, believed to be a former military garrison. The findings there date from the 3rd to the 10th centuries, ending with the Tang Dynasty, when trade along the Silk Road was at its height. But for that period and for centuries afterward, ethnicities, tribes and power centers in the region remained in flux, with no one culture exerting long-term rule.

The Chinese empire did not exercise full political control over the territory in its current shape until the Qing Dynasty, ruled by ethnic Manchus, annexed the region in 1760 and later gave it the name Xinjiang, according to the scholars James A. Millward and Peter C. Perdue.

"By first establishing military and civil administrations and then promoting immigration and agricultural settlements, it went far toward ensuring the continued presence of China-based power in the region," the two professors wrote in a 2004 volume of essays by 16 scholars, "Xinjiang: China's Muslim Borderland." ...



Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.
by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 04:13:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
 LIVING OFF THE PLANET 
 Environment, Energy, Agriculture, Food 



Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:11:35 AM EST
Corporate Responsibility and Sustainability News:

Mayor Gavin Newsom issued an executive directive Wednesday ordering all departments to survey the land under their control in order to create an inventory of land that can support community gardens. All city-purchased food for city meetings, schools, jails or homeless shelters must be grown locally with sustainable farming practices. Food vendors with city permits must also meet these requirements.

"The stark reality is that hunger, food insecurity, and poor nutrition are pressing health issues, even in a city as rich and vibrant as San Francisco," said Mayor Newsom in a prepared statement Wednesday.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 04:20:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Water Management Key to Lifting Afghanistan Out of Poverty
KABUL, Afghanistan, July 8, 2009 (ENS) - The inefficient management of Afghanistan's water resources is linked to both the country's widespread poverty and deadly tribal conflicts over territory, a United Nations envoy said Tuesday, calling for better management to help foster stability and build prosperity.

Kai Eide, the UN secretary-general's special representative, told a conference on water resources development in Kabul that donors and nongovernmental organizations should focus more on enhancing the management of water resources.

"Whether we look at poverty, food security, health or economic development, there is no issue more important for this country at this time than the development of Afghanistan's water resources," he said.

Afghanistan's economy remains dominated by agriculture, which employs two-thirds of the national workforce and accounts for more than half of gross domestic product. But decades of conflict and misrule have destroyed irrigation systems, stunting economic growth.

Eide said that trans-boundary issues with other Central Asian countries should also be resolved.

"Afghanistan needs agreements with its neighbors that can provide equitable sharing and cooperative management of water resources in accordance with principles of international law," he said.

"Afghanistan has a right to its share of its resources. Today they are unused. The United Nations is committed to helping to effectively manage the world's trans-boundary waters and will continue to support such efforts," Eide said.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 04:23:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Monsanto's man Taylor returns to FDA in food-czar role | Grist

In a Tuesday afternoon press release, the FDA announced that Michael Taylor, a former Monsanto executive, had joined the agency as "senior advisor to the commissioner." If the title is vague, the portfolio (pasted from the press release) is substantial--a kind of food czar of the Food and Drug Administration:

* Assess current food program challenges and opportunities
* Identify capacity needs and regulatory priorities
* Develop plans for allocating fiscal year 2010 resources
* Develop the FDA's budget request for fiscal year 2011
* Plan implementation of new food safety legislation

Taylor's new position isn't his first in government. He's a veteran apparatchik who has made an art of the role-swapping dance between the food industry and the agencies that regulate it. (The FDA's press release highlights his government service while delicately omitting his Monsanto daliances.) In her 2002 book Food Politics, the nutritionist and food-industry critic Marion Nestle describes him like this (quote courtesy of La Vida Locavore):

Mr. Taylor is a lawyer who began his revolving door adventures as counsel to FDA. He then moved to King & Spalding, a private-sector law firm representing Monsanto, a leading agricultural biotechnology company. In 1991 he returned to the FDA as Deputy Commissioner for Policy, where he was part of the team that issued the agency's decidedly industry-friendly policy on food biotechnology and that approved the use of Monsanto's genetically engineered growth hormone in dairy cows. His questionable role in these decisions led to an investigation by...

(read on...)

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 04:26:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
 LIVING ON THE PLANET 
 Society, Culture, History, Information 



Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:11:57 AM EST
Face to faith: Simon Rocker on anti-discrimination law | Comment is free | The Guardian

There is a well-known dictum in the Talmud, "the law of the land is the law". It laid down that, on civil matters, Jews should obey the law of the countries of their dispersion. For modern-day Jews in the UK, this has never been a problem, for they have enjoyed the freedom to practise their religion as they wish. But now an appeal court ruling has touched a raw nerve in the Jewish community, leading the chief rabbi to go so far as to say that it has, in effect, branded Judaism as racist.

Two years ago a boy, known as M in the legal papers, was turned down for a place by JFS, a state-aided comprehensive in London, which is under the religious jurisdiction of the chief rabbi. According to traditional Jewish law, a child is Jewish if his mother is Jewish. But M is the son of a mother who was converted to Judaism by a non-Orthodox rabbi, and hence neither she nor her son is Jewish in the eyes of the Orthodox establishment.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:20:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I do not think the government should be in the business of funding apartheid schools at all. If religionists want to educate their kids exclusively in the way of the faith, then let them do it on their own dollar.

No state supported faith based education.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 07:23:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
RIGHTS: No Safe Haven for Ugandan Girls - IPS ipsnews.net
KAMPALA, Jul 10 (IPS) - A year ago, a mother in Kashari County took the law into her own hands and castrated a man she caught raping her seven-year-old daughter.

Malita Kyomugisha returned from her farm and found her neighbor Tito Mugarura sexually assaulting her youngest daughter behind her house in Rugyerera village.

"I think he deserved it then and I would do it to him today if I found him," Kyomugisha said.

"When I reached the bush behind my house, I could not believe my eyes when I saw that old man on top of my youngest child. I was lucky that he was still naked. I used the knife I had in my garden basket to cut of his organ," she said.

The story was widely reported in the media, and many children's and women's rights activists, including Uganda's former ethics and integrity minister, Miria Matembe, applauded Kyomugisha's action. Matembe had gained notoriety for agitating that men who rape minors be castrated as a deterrent.

Child abuse is rampant in Uganda. In the war-affected north, soldiers and rebels alike have been responsible for numerous rapes. But even where conflict cannot be blamed for destroying the social fabric, girls are vulnerable to assault by their relatives at home and by teachers at school.


When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 04:16:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How did physics become so strange? | The Agonist

Physics for the longest time equaled mechanics. By the late 19th century this discipline was developed to perfection. I don't use this term lightly. In the Lagragian and Hamiltonian reformulation of classical mechanics everything can be derived from 3 simple and intuitively understood first principles:

Nature follows the same laws ...

  1. ... now as in the past.
  2. ... here as at a different position and/or orientation in space.
  3. ... on the path of least resistance i.e. getting form one state to the next with the least amount of energy exhibited (D'Alembert's principle).

This formulation of classical mechanics is so stunningly and intoxicatingly beautiful that a young Max Planck was asked by one of his teachers why he would ever contemplate going into the field of physics. After all physics was completed. He was told there was nothing left to be done (other than maybe some minor third degree issues on the fringes). Fortunately he did not believe this teacher.

I think what motivated Einstein was to get back to a theory that recaptured this kind of beauty that was threatened by Maxwell's equations - an aether that doesn't adhere to the equivalence of frames of reference just wouldn't do.

In this sense Einstein was a reconstructist who inadvertently triggered the greatest revolution in physics due to his uncompromising rigor and an otherworldly unconventionalism.

 Migeru special!

If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 04:38:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This will not be as good as the best popular science book ever written but hopefully it will illustrate why modern physics doesn't ever seem to give straight answers anymore to even the most simple questions.
Hmmm, it doesn't, really. Maybe next week?
Turn in next week when I reveal what happened to your grand1-grand2-grand3...-grandn-niece 10E5 removed and may or may not get around to actually answer brodix questions.


The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:04:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Brodix' questions:
I didn't set out to question physics, but in trying to make sense of it, various questions keep coming up and the people I ask usually brush me off. If you don't mind, I'll pose a few, just to give you an idea;

My first heresy occurred about twenty years ago, when I read that the total expansion of the universe is fairly evenly matched by the total gravitational attraction/collapse, resulting in an overall flat space. It occurred to me that if this were true, the Big Bang theory didn't make sense. If expansion is balanced by gravity, than there is no overall expansion. It makes more sense as a convective cycle of expanding energy(Excuse the term), radiation, if you prefer and collapsing mass. The mechanics of how this might be eluded me, so I assumed whatever is falling into galactic black holes is emerging as vacuum fluctuation and thus while the geometry of space falls into galactic wells, it is expanding in the space between. Sort of like ocean floor slides under tectonic plates and expanding by volcanic activity along ocean ridges. In the mid '90's, in conversations on the old NYTimes science forums, someone describing himself as a physicist out of Chicago said he had a similar idea(in far more complex language) in grad school, but that the transfer medium was light and other forms of radiation, including the jets of electrons out the poles, escaping from galaxies and radiating back out across space. Apparently an adviser recommended it wasn't a good career move to pursue, though.
Now obviously it's caused me no end of trouble to even try discussing this, but I don't have a career to risk.

My first question to you then, is; If the Big Bang Theory is right and all the space in the universe expanded from a singularity, why doesn't the speed of light increase proportionally? Since Inflation theory argues the universe isn't just expanding into a stable void of space, but that it is space itself that expands, wouldn't our most basic measure of this space, the speed at which light crosses it, have to increase as well! Think of it this way; If two objects are a billion light years apart and the universe doubles in size, wouldn't they be two billion light years apart? The problem is that if this is the case, than it is not expanding space, it's an increasing amount of stable space. That's how the Doppler effect works anyway. The train moving away from you isn't stretching the space in between, but simply adding to it. So it would seem that if space is actually stretching, then the two objects would always appear a billion light years apart, but then the expanding universe wouldn't be apparent and the whole theory falls apart.

I think the redshift is an optical effect. Just as gravity bends the path of light, it doesn't move the source around, than radiation would stretch light without actually moving the source. What if light/radiation expands out from the source as a unitary field and it is only when it connects with some material object, such as the lens of a telescope, that it "grounds out" as a quantum of light. For one thing, it would explain why stars are so clear, even though the light travels so far. If they traveled as distinct photons, it would seem the opportunities for disruption would be far greater, especially traveling through gravity fields, etc. Also it would explain the pulsing we describe as waves. Think in terms of a dripping faucet. The drips remain the same size, due to surface tension and gravity, but as you tighten the handle, they form slower. Now a bright young star that is throwing out lots of energy is blue. That would be because the photons are forming faster and so the waves are shorter. Now an older red star is throwing out less light, so these drips of light, photons, form slower and the waves are longer. What happens when they are really far away, like in another galaxy? The light is that much weaker, so that even the blue stars are shifted to the red end of the spectrum. Remember Einstein predicted the cosmological constant to balance gravity and the anomaly currently ascribed to dark energy measures close to what a cosmological constant would be. If it is an optical effect and not the acceleration of the expansion of the entire universe, it would certainly reduce the need for a lot of undetected energy.
Generally most physicists just tell me to go read a book and figure out what I'm talking about, but these books talk about things I find as nonsensical as you find Star Trek physics! There is no time travel if time isn't a malleable meta-dimension, nor are multi-worlds necessary if time is the multiplicity of the future collapsing into the order of the past, as opposed to traveling that meta-dimension from the past into the future.

Not to mention Inflation theory proposing the entire universe expanded to many times its visible size in a microsecond. If space pre-exists, as a stable speed of light suggests, this would create quite a shock wave.

I try being logical, but physicists tell me that the logic of physics isn't common sense. I point out that thinking of time as a dimension going from past to future is common sense, since that is the basis of history and human thought. What is truly logical is understanding the events of which we are part are being created and consumed, thus going future to past.



The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:07:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
are they good questions, Migeru?

If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:44:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They're probably worth a diary. But note how he complains that this or that is "common sense".

The problem with physics is that the metaphors used in popular science are a poor substitute for the mathematics and this person is very confused because his understanding of the metaphors leads them to inferences which are just wrong.

The problem is one of cognitive linguistics, not of physics. How Lakoffian of me.

There is also the perceived arrogance of physicists who just tell them to go read some book or other and brush them off. The problem is that what is needed is to pick apart this person's mental models, take them down and rebuild new ones so that he stops complaining about "common sense"; that this is exceedingly difficult to do without the mathematics; and that, if you're going to use mathematics, there are books out there that do a better job of marrying mathematics and intuition than your average physicist can do in an off-the-cuff conversation.

I hope that makes sense.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:55:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This reminds me of something Pratchett wrote about the issue, that we shouldn't really be surprised if the deepest mysteries of the univserse doesn't make any "sense" to a species whose brain for the vast majority of its existence was mainly preoccupied with telling the other apes were the fruit were. The fact that we understand so much as we do is a marvel. And with "understand" I don't refer to being able to crunch the numbers, but actually get an understanding of the concept.

I know that light is both a wave and a particle. I can do the numbers on that stuff. I've done the experiment when you shoot laser light at a wall and get a fuzzy red point on the wall, and then put a grating in front of it and instead get a number of separare sharp points spread all over the bloody wall. Even if I understand the process, it still doesn't make any kind of sense to me.

Even things we usually think makes sense, like gravity, is often more that we've gotten used to the senselessness rather than actually understanding it. It took years and years for me to understand gravity even from a Newtonian point of view. I had my apple moment when lying on my back on a counter with my head down the drain, observing the water running "upwards". I was actually not trying to get a deeper understanding of the universe, I was just thirsty and drunk. But there you go.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 07:13:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm going to have to write that diary on quantum mechanics and ontology, am I not?

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 07:27:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yep.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 11:47:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks, good explanation.

bridging these disciplines is very important for the future of science and enthusiasm to learn it, i think.

If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 07:14:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What "disciplines" are being "bridged" here? Physics and Common Sense? Bridging them means to learn about the physical world thereby acquiring "physical intuition" which supersedes "common sense" like modern physics supersedes Aristotelian physics.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 01:08:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Comment responses
The problem is one of cognitive linguistics, not of physics

there are two right there, if i'm not mistaken.

then there was your comment about ontology and QT, two more...

or aren't they disciplines?

you could have just said: 'it'll never happen, unless you do the math homework first', but you tried to help brodix understand why his questions were mis-premised, and in doing so, helped me inch forward.

sometimes even realising how ignorant one is, is a kind of knowledge, (how valuable i guess depends...)

;)

If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:07:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm glad you think that was a helpful response because to me it feels like hitting brodix over the head with "you're not even wrong" repeatedly and then telling him to go read a book, like the other physicists say when they brush him off. Hence the 'ugh'.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:21:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
no, to me it was more like you're tapping him on the shoulder, going, 'you need to fully understand X before you can race ahead and jump to conclusions about Y.'

but i went to the agonist to groove on possible further discussion of your mega comment, and it's not there.

°çéé&&%$!

If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:34:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll sit with the guy and teach him general relativity from scratch - but I won't entertain a debate with a layperson on whether the standard cosmological model is "logical" in "common-sense" terms. It is not, period, and that doesn't tell you the theory is suspect, but common sense is flawed.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:47:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well, it does, actually, not to me, but it makes sense!

just kidding...

good stuff. gracias.

If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:14:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I composed the following reply to brodix, to post on the Agonist. Ugh.
It is very interesting that you can open your comment with
Math is another language and while it's wise to be fluent in it before conversing with those who are, it, like all languages, is a modeling of reality, not the irreducible basis for it, as some mathologists would have you believe.
and end with
I try being logical, but physicists tell me that the logic of physics isn't common sense. I point out that thinking of time as a dimension going from past to future is common sense, since that is the basis of history and human thought. What is truly logical is understanding the events of which we are part are being created and consumed, thus going future to past.
Physical intuition, like common sense, is a "logic" which is based on a certain "experience". 20th century physics has gone well beyond the realm of ordinary human experience (in terms of the energies, speeds, sizes, time scales... involved) and so it is not surprising that "the logic of physics" is not "the logic common sense". You could say "the logic of common sense" is "the logic of Aristotelian physics". Then there's mathematics as language. You could use mathematics to express "the logic of common sense" quantitatively and you're have a mathematical physics quite distinct from "classical physics" (Newtonian, up to the late 19th century) and definitely different from the mathematical physics of the 20th century.

The logic of both Aristotelian and Newtonian physics includes a single universal "time" to which al clocks tick. Under Einsteinian physics (special relativity: no gravity involved) there is no universal time - each observer, each physical system, carries its own clock, and they don't necessarily agree after taking different paths through spacetime.

However, in Einsteinian physics there is a sense of "causality", or "past" and "future", which is unambigous, independent of the observer and which agrees with the "common sense" idea of time flowing forward.

Now, it appears to me that you have a problem with the "popular science" metaphors used to communicate intuition about modern physics to a lay audience. The metaphors are a poor substitute for the mathematics and it is not guaranteed that you can reason "logically" in terms of the metaphors and reach the correct conclusions, especially if you cannot refer back to the mathematics to check your conclusion. And here we go back to the point about mathematics being a language. Mathematical physics is a way to express with precision a certain model of the physical world. Sometimes it is attempted to express the model of the physical world in "plain English". Epic misunderstandings ensue, because physics is done in mathematical language not out of perversity but out of necessity - plain English just doesn't cut it. For instance:

I read that the total expansion of the universe is fairly evenly matched by the total gravitational attraction/collapse, resulting in an overall flat space
I am familiar with the Friedman-Robertson-Walker cosmological model and I don't think this is a particularly fortunate way to summarise them in plain English. You then say
It occurred to me that if this were true, the Big Bang theory didn't make sense. If expansion is balanced by gravity, than there is no overall expansion.
Here we're confusing two meanings of the word "to balance". Or maybe the original explanation was an unfortunate rendering of the FRW cosmology into "plain english".
It makes more sense as a convective cycle of expanding energy(Excuse the term), radiation, if you prefer and collapsing mass.
I don't know what you mean by your model of the convective cycle. Is this a new theory or just a way of explaining Friedman-Robertson-Walker? I can't tell. It makes little sense to me. And, what's worse, now we've discussing in terms of whether the cosmological model is "more like convection" or "more like a stretching sheet of rubber" or whatever. The FRW model is what it is, and if you query it properly out pop precise answers to empirically testable questions. We cannot do this with mental pictures of convection or rubber sheets.
Sort of like ocean floor slides under tectonic plates and expanding by volcanic activity along ocean ridges.
The problem with this picture is, apart from the fact that it has no obvious connection with Einstein'e equations, that convection happens in fluids that are conserved, whereas spacetime (or space) is neither a fluid or any other kind of material nor is it conserved. Under the FRW model, the volume of space is not conserved except under very finely tuned choices of parameters. But that's okay since space is not a "thing" and doesn't need to be conserved.
If the Big Bang Theory is right and all the space in the universe expanded from a singularity, why doesn't the speed of light increase proportionally?
The speed of light is a constant of the theory. What happens when the universe expands is that the wavelength of matter fields (and, in General Relativity, "light" is a form of "matter field") is stretched out. So, if the light we observe now was emitted at a time when the universe was half the size, then the wavelength of the light we observe is half of what it was when it was emitted. This is the cosmological redshift first observed by Hubble.
Since Inflation theory argues the universe isn't just expanding into a stable void of space, but that it is space itself that expands, wouldn't our most basic measure of this space, the speed at which light crosses it, have to increase as well!
No, it wouldn't. The speed of light is a constant. Space is not measured by the speed of light, if you want it's measured by the round-trip travel time of light.
Think of it this way; If two objects are a billion light years apart and the universe doubles in size, wouldn't they be two billion light years apart?
Yes
The problem is that if this is the case, than it is not expanding space, it's an increasing amount of stable space.
Um, it is expanding space, that's what the cosmological model is telling you.
That's how the Doppler effect works anyway. The train moving away from you isn't stretching the space in between, but simply adding to it.
That's how the "velocity redshift" works. It's not how the "cosmological redshift" works. Galaxies are not moving trains - they are like dots on an inflating balloon. And the observed redshift comes from the expansion of space, not from velocity.
I think the redshift is an optical effect.
Actually, it's more than that, because it changes the energy carried by light - it's not just a geometrical effect like the bending of light rays.
Just as gravity bends the path of light, it doesn't move the source around, than radiation would stretch light without actually moving the source.
Sorry, but I can't make sense of "radiation would stretch light".
What if light/radiation expands out from the source as a unitary field and it is only when it connects with some material object, such as the lens of a telescope, that it "grounds out" as a quantum of light.
You could describe the quantum theory of interaction of light with matter in this way. This is not a new theory. If it helps you to think of the theory in this way, fine, but this doesn't change the theory.
For one thing, it would explain why stars are so clear, even though the light travels so far.
I didn't think that was a fact that required explanation. Also, since I am also not sure how your description of light propagation and interaction is different from the standard theory, I am not sure how you're supposed to be solving a problem that couldn't be solved before.
That would be because the photons are forming faster and so the waves are shorter.
No, there is no relationship between the rate of emission of photons and the wavelength. Wavelength is related to the energy of each individual photon, not to their rate of emission. A bright young star is hotter than an old red star, therefore it is emitting more energetic (bluer) photons.
Generally most physicists just tell me to go read a book and figure out what I'm talking about, but these books talk about things I find as nonsensical as you find Star Trek physics!
Well, sorry to hear that. Because the fact is that the physics that is described in those books actually describes experimental facts pretty well. Just like Euclid told a king "there is no Royal road to geometry", there is no road to talking about modern physics that avoids learning its mathematical language.

Anyway, I could do worse than to refer you to this article: the meaning of Einstein's equations. It attempts to be as simple as possible

This is a brief introduction to general relativity, designed for both students and teachers of the subject. While there are many excellent expositions of general relativity, few adequately explain the geometrical meaning of the basic equation of the theory: Einstein's equation. Here we give a simple formulation of this equation in terms of the motion of freely falling test particles. We also sketch some of the consequences of this formulation and explain how it is equivalent to the usual one in terms of tensors. Finally, we include an annotated bibliography of books, articles and websites suitable for the student of relativity.
Good luck.


The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 01:00:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well from where i stand, those were good questions, because they prompted some nice (original sense) replies of great heuristic value, even if the upshot appears to be that it's futile for brodix, or anyone else, to try and wrap his mind around these concepts without sufficient grounding in advanced mathematics, the only vocabulary capable of languaging them.

is this what prompts the 'ugh'? the fact that he's trying to jump the initiation process, trying to shortcut something that doesn't admit this kind of reduction?

or don't you like the website for some reason?

you've been threatening/promising to write that diary for yonks, these questions, long on hope and intellectual aspiration, but missing an essential key as you say, have elicited some very interesting elucidations from you.

i can see that from where you stand, this might seem as futile as throwing a one metre rope across a mile-wide canyon, but that's relativity for ya!

/snark

i admire brodix for trying to get there from here, and i think you did a great job of helping him, without bastardising your knowledge, or sneering at his 'just enough knowledge to think you can shortcut' misapprehensions.

it must be frustrating, i would feel the same way if someone wanted to learn guitar without putting in the hours, just through asking some semi-perceptive questions doesn't advance him a jot.

some initiations are not bypassable, with all the good will in the world, yet it's human nature to try and find loopholes, or should i say 'wormholes'?

:)

i hope you have better luck registering at the agonist than i did, the software just doesn't want to play nice.

i wish i understood a fraction of all this, yet something 'moves' inside my brain as i try to entertain the vastness and minusculeness of the universe, and the realisations f great minds who saw deeply into the reality that i swim in, unaware of the forces that surround me, other than through vague intuition.

i know here at ET there are some heavy hitting mathematicians, statisticians, economists and energy specialists, and yet physics is not discussed here very often, why should it be?

over at sean-paul's there was this coonversation, see, and i wondered if such could ever appear on ET, and how well it might draw you out into trying to help us curious uninitiated make a few tiny steps towards understanding.

thanks very much for trying to do what apparently may be impossible, i hope it didn't cause you any untoward stress!

If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 04:58:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is this what prompts the 'ugh'? the fact that he's trying to jump the initiation process, trying to shortcut something that doesn't admit this kind of reduction?

More likely the visceral dislike of seeing a description of some advanced physics that is Not Even Wrong. It evokes the same kind of aesthetic displeasure as seeing a big, ugly Land Rover driving around in the historical centre of a pretty city.

It's just... ugly. And it's frustrating, because the guy in the Land Rover most likely can't understand why people think it's ugly.

- Jake

Tory Bliar for president prison!

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:20:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The 'ugh' expresses the unpleasantness of having to explain to the guy in the Land Rover why it's ugly.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:26:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i know here at ET there are some heavy hitting mathematicians, statisticians, economists and energy specialists, and yet physics is not discussed here very often, why should it be?
It doesn't really get you anywhere. The physics is what it is and you don't learn a whole lot from (excuse me) sophomoric philosophical discussions of interpretation. I spent a lot of energy on that when I was a student, like students do, but at the end of the day you feel like you're just waving your hands around and nothing productive comes out.

We don't discuss a whole lot of hard science of any kind on ET - not much biology or geology or astronomy: facts get reported but not much is gained from discussion. What we will discuss is the acquisition and interpretation of the data (as, for instance, in the field of Climate Science). We discuss engineering and public policy and social science. That's partly because, despite appearances, ET is not a place for idle speculative discussion. It may be more debat- than action-oriented but the debate is eminently practical in intent. We discuss ideas, some quite fanciful, for how to organize power plants or transportation networks, but we don't discuss proposals for the next space-based telescope.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:44:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So, if the light we observe now was emitted at a time when the universe was half the size, then the wavelength of the light we observe is half of what it was when it was emitted.

Twice, not half.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:38:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:44:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this a draft still about to be posted? If yes, I suggest

  • An extra point about "common sense": what he desribes as common sense idea of time is actually a Newtron-inspired idea of time Westerners have learnt at school. Time loops and cycles, time going at different speeds for different observers was not an alien concept to people, you'll find plenty of evidence for that in fairytales, legends and religious books.

  • Add to "Sorry, but I can't make sense of "radiation would stretch light". ": Light is radiation.


*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 05:51:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Agonist allows editing of comments after they're posted... Thanks for the additions. The comment is in this thread.

I didn't add the point about Newton's idea of time because it could be argued it comes from Hebrew ideas of time (whereas cyclical time is associated, for instance, with Hinduism) and it would become too long a point to just insert in the comment as an edit.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:08:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He answers you:

I argued that time is created by motion

I'd just ask him (but won't bother to register): What is "motion"? You just replace one axiom with another.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:37:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, and don't yet mention the crackpot index...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:40:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or the Donning-Kruger syndrome.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 04:05:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, he also tells me
I realize my command of modern physics isn't sufficient to allow me to raise questions as to its veracity
I love being called a liar by someone who doesn't know what a light-year is
As for my point about light speed, if that expanding balloon has units marked off on it, called light years, such that two galaxies are a billion light-years apart and we blow that balloon up further, the number of light-years doesn't increase.
not to speak of his earlier misunderstanding of what "energy" means in "newtonian" terms...
I use the term "energy" in the Newtonian sense; That which cannot be created or destroyed and for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. If I'm defining it in terms of a unit, that makes it both energy and information. A joule of energy can be expended and while the particular unit no longer exists, the energy has continued on into other forms. As I said, energy goes past to future. Information goes future to past.


The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:44:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I answered him that he had just rediscovered the duality between Hamiltonian and Lagrangian mechanics...

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 06:45:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i love the format!

generalist, metaphor-ridden, system overviewing, political-philosophical polymath leaps into unknown without benefit of insurance or sound map, to be nudged -not judged- back onto the straight and narrow by specialist, informed, data-driven, wonky-but-articulate spokesman (somewhat unwillingly, lol!).

there's a great tv show in there.

i don't 'understand' Bach the first times listening, but the poetry in the lines is immediately felt.

similarly, reading the discussion on that thread was a bit like eavesdropping on aliens from sirius discussing interstellar overdrive, but there's such majesty and loft in just allowing the words to resonate, the synaptic activity is palpable, even if the normal outcomes of linear enquiry and understanding are as far away as alpha centauri.

i appreciated jake's analogy about the SUV, and your reply about the ugliness of even trying to explain, that was illuminating, both in terms of the sheer ridiculousness of the proposition (to convince the driver of his unaesthetic choice), and in the hint of the verticality of this knowledge, the lonely-at-the top vibe, of having been initiated and seeing the ideas oversimplified for us dummies down on the plain, how pure it is up there, and how tiresome it is to see those presumptuous idiots trying to will themselves up, when anyone who has been there knows that unless you take the correct way up, you will always be muddled, and never be able to go back and check the results mathematically, therefore irrelevant, even annoying.

i also appreciated your feelings that ET is nor a place to speculate about science. i see that you feel this blog might be denigrated by serious people if posters use it too much as a playground for abstractions. apologies if i have misunderstood.

it seems that there is a huge appetite to try and grok this stuff, and yet the gap between those in the know, and yer average joe seems nigh-unbridgeable, more's the pity.

it would appear that the difficulty in mastering the levels of mathematics necessary for initiation precludes the masses being able to share in the wonder, at least until mathematics is taught in such a way that even the most innumerate can be gently handheld through addition and subtraction all the way to the intellectual himalayas of abstract mathematics.

not an easy job, pedagogically, or we'd have maths whizzes popping up like mushrooms everywhere.

i can imagine how strange it might be to write a diary from scratch about something so difficult to language in letters and words, when you know most people do not even have the abc's yet.

like writing a symphony for the deaf, or painting a masterpiece for the blind.

perhaps it's because i'm so clueless, but if i were a physics professor, and i had a student like brodix, i'd feel fortunate the guy was so into digging into his reality and trying to find points of reference others could share, letting his questions teach by 'not-even-wrongness', as representative of a layman's questions, wrongheaded perhaps, but in good faith.

but the that presupposes that people with your level of knowledge and understanding actually enjoy trying to share it, which was clearly not the case, unless 'ugh' is a sound of pleasure!

anyroads, you may never write that diary for us, and if you did, you may only have 3 or 4 comments on it because the rest didn't want to make fools of ourselves. so maybe it's not worth the candle...

meanwhile, i got what i wanted, (evil cackle...)

it took me quite a while to distinguish between a 6th chord and 6/9th, i don't imagine understanding einstein will come at any more accelerated a velocity.

brazilian bossa chords, so deliciously inside, so teasingly tangled, so sexily inverted, so languorously exciting, mmm. and that's before getting into the pantherlike surreptitiousness of the syncopation. or was it after?

maybe music and math will rejoin as one, one infinite starry night full of mystic melodies and dancing equations...

reading discussions about your field is as mysteriously moving as listening to great music.

fsm knows why!

If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 05:48:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The guy's a crackpot, and he's not the only one on The Agonist, by the looks of it. There is one dude running around claiming that "the twin paradox" and "quantum coupling" are not "explained" and that, together with "dark matter" they show modern science is flawed. Ugh.

I'm glad you're finding this entertaining. I'm not.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 06:01:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He even tells us how long he's been thinking about this stuff as if that were evidence of anything.

Crackpot index

10 points for beginning the description of your theory by saying how long you have been working on it. (10 more for emphasizing that you worked on your own.)
I'm getting increasingly frustrated...
Homogeneity
I have been following this discussion for over thirty years and there very much was an issue of how to explain why we appear at the center, due to the fact that everything, non-local, is redshifted directly away from us.
The standard cosmological model is an exploration of the consequences of assuming the universe is on average homogeneous and isotropic - that is, that it looks exactly the same from every point and in every direction.

This is an ansatz (simplifying assumption) of the theory, but it implies that "we appear at the center" because every point appears exactly the same, and every direction appears exactly the same, so all apparent motion appears to be radially away (or towards) the observer, any observer. By construction.

That after 30 years of "following" "this discussion" you still haven't understood this basic point makes me wonder what you've actually been discussing, because the standard cosmological models can't be it. Migeru July 13, 2009 - 5:33am



The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 06:49:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I would appreciate it if you stopped attributing to me things like the following. Thank you very much.
the lonely-at-the top vibe, of having been initiated and seeing the ideas oversimplified for us dummies down on the plain, how pure it is up there, and how tiresome it is to see those presumptuous idiots trying to will themselves up

...

i see that you feel this blog might be denigrated by serious people if posters use it too much as a playground for abstractions

...

people with your level of knowledge and understanding actually enjoy trying to share it, which was clearly not the case

On the latter point, this guy brodix doesn't seem actually interested in learning modern physics. He has enough with popularizations which he then uses as straw men to attack the theory he doesn't understand. Shadows in the cave, truly. And I did say I'd sit down with anyone to teach them GR from scratch. But they have to be willing to learn, which brodix is not - he's too attached to his "common sense".

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 06:10:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Shadows in the cave, truly.
Is that a Plato reference?

he's too attached to his "common sense".
It's a very anthropocentric view, that the fantastically complex universe from the tiniest subatomic level to entire galaxy clusters should be aligned with what is considered "common sense" in the human (scale) experience.

A theoretic subatomic or galaxywide "creature" would probably have a quite differing view on "common sense" than we have...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 07:23:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, it is a Plato reference. The shadows are the metaphors from popular science.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 07:25:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I thought so... You're quite the renaissance man and I'm looking forward to actually meeting you in person at some future meetup. :)

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 07:31:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem is not that he doesn't understand a thing, but that he thinks he does. When spotting apparent contradictions and oxymorons in modern science, rather than entertain the notion that he misunderstood something, he assumes his simple observations could never have occured to tens of thousands of scientists who deal with that science.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 07:08:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
DoDo:
When spotting apparent contradictions and oxymorons in modern science
Or, rather, in popular science.

He attacks the straw men erected for him by poor popularizers of science.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 07:11:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Emphasis on "apparent" -- apparent to him. (And he mixes up even the crap popularizing methapors.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 07:30:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There's also this: physics PhDs are responsible for the economic crisis:

The Agonist: Between Culture and Nature on Planet Earth

The reason Epi-cycles lasted for 1500 years was because it was far easier to add a patch whenever an anomaly came up, than to go back and rethink the entire theory. Now we have dark matter and energy. Math has to deal with the very fact that its precision can also be a weakness, if factors are overlooked. Just look at the physics PhD's who went to Wall St. and created enormous securities bubbles because they didn't consider the pedestrian element of declining house prices.
Therefore, the standard cosmological model is wrong.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 07:16:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
By the way. To what extent were those ex physics PhD students aware that they are doing bogus science for the banks & brokers?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 07:48:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure mathematical finance is bogus.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 09:03:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Often they weren't.

The trouble happens when you take the models and ignore the limitations because you damn well want to.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 09:09:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
perhaps it's because i'm so clueless, but if i were a physics professor, and i had a student like brodix, i'd feel fortunate the guy was so into digging into his reality and trying to find points of reference others could share, letting his questions teach by 'not-even-wrongness', as representative of a layman's questions, wrongheaded perhaps, but in good faith.

The problem with that approach are twofold:

First, the quintessential problem with a statement that is "not even wrong" is that it cannot be used to educate anybody about physics. If it could, it would simply be wrong. A "not even wrong" statement needs to be deconstructed at the level of epistemology. Which gets tiresome. And usually generates more heat than light.

Second, brodix, from what I've read of him, is not trying to dig into reality - he seems to be into constructing a mental framework that permits him to fix reality around an ide fixé. That is not terribly helpful when you are attempting to communicate.

It is one thing to say "I don't understand how [pop-science explanation] works." This is stating that the populariser has failed (whether because he is a poor populariser or because the subject is inherently difficult). It is quite another to say "I think this theory is wrong, because [pop-science explanation] doesn't work, for these reasons." That is quarrelling with the theory itself, which is not for the faint of heart.

This difference is not a minor semantic quibble or a matter of taste: The former statement admits to the knowledge that what you have read is not the actual theory. The latter does not. It means that the former case permits the misconceptions to be cleared up simply by the device of explaining the theory better, while in the latter case you have to deconstruct his wrong conception of what the theory says before you can even begin to explain the real theory.

It is, to take a more familiar case, the difference between explaining how the economy works to an interested layman and explaining how the economy works to an established neoclassical economist.

- Jake

Tory Bliar for president prison!

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 01:47:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
brodix:
Now obviously it's caused me no end of trouble to even try discussing this, but I don't have a career to risk.

...

Generally most physicists just tell me to go read a book and figure out what I'm talking about ...

Now we know why...
..., but these books talk about things I find as nonsensical as you find Star Trek physics!
So the problem is with the books, surely.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 04:10:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
 PEOPLE AND KLATSCH 



Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:12:26 AM EST
Sarah Jessica Parker: Surrogacy On The Rise In Britain After Star Used A Surrogate Mother | UK News | Sky News
The number of women offering to carry a baby for another woman has jumped by 25% - with Sarah Jessica Parker being seen as a key factor in the rise.

Sarah Jessica Parker had twins through a surrogate mother

The Childless Overcome Through Surrogacy group says it is the first time in its history that the number of would-be surrogates registering their interest matches the number of people wanting to have a child through surrogacy.

And it is putting the rise in interest down to the media coverage of Sarah Jessica Parker's new family.

The Sex And The City star and her husband, Matthew Broderick, spent several years trying to conceive before electing to use a surrogate.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:32:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not unusual to find solicitations for surrogates and egg donors at craigslist/state/jobs/etcetera. $8K(VA), $10K(DC)...

Perhaps these are the type of "situations" Mr Obama has in mind to employ women who feel confusing feelings about birth control and the "sacredness of sex"...

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 05:53:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Women hiring out their wombs as a result of the recession seems like a more plausible explanation.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 06:01:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pick any body part. I can imagine wet-nurse industry becoming fashionable again... Reproductive assets are recession-proof, inflation-proof. That is a "situation" where  economic power governing political power dovetails predictably with status of chattel and vessel of all God's children. The "sacredness of sex," I quote Mr Obama. I could not make up such shyte. He's such a romantic! He's no money man... "That's not me," he might say. Again.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by MarketTrustee on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 06:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That makes no sense - SJP might have had an effect in increasing the number of surrogate seekers, but I can't see how she could have increased the number of surrogates. Emulation isn't it, clearly.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 06:00:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cocaine king's hippo gunned down in Colombia | Oddly Enough | Reuters

BOGOTA (Reuters) - Drug lord Pablo Escobar's hippo died the same way he did, hunted down and shot by the authorities for posing a danger to the public.

The African-born hippopotamus that escaped three years ago from a ranch once owned by Escobar was killed on orders of the government, authorities said on Friday.

Cocaine king Escobar, who was gunned down by police on a rooftop in the city of Medellin in 1993, was so flush with cash that he flew in hundreds of exotic animals, including kangaroos, flamingos, elephants, rhinos, and nine hippos.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:43:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Phone hacking allegations are irresponsible, says Wade - Press, Media - The Independent

The News of the World yesterday accused The Guardian newspaper of being irresponsible and misleading in its reporting of phone hacking allegations.

Rebekah Wade, who is soon to start as chief executive at News International, the owner of the Sunday tabloid, accused The Guardian of substantially misleading the public and suggested that it had done so deliberately. In a statement issued last night after two days of silence she came out fighting and denounced a series of The Guardian's claims as untrue. She promised that executives from News International will, when they appear before a Parliamentary committee, refute allegations that hacking into the phones of celebrities, sporting figures and politicians was common.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 11:53:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well she would say that, wouldn't she ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 07:31:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Doing what they've been doing, once a year, in the moonlight, for millions of years.

Same old, same old. Makes you wonder.... ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jul 11th, 2009 at 05:54:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i can't remember for sure, but i think it was on the san diego beaches i used to see the old shells of these beasts laying around in the sand. they bear an odd, and slightly evocative resemblance to WW2 nazi infantry helmets.

somewhat disturbingly, i kept flashing on newsreel footage of the normandy landings, i don't know why, but there was a strong deja-vu quality to these visuals, and the 'otherness' of the impression still resonates.


If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 04:26:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Despite our high expectations, Vice President Joe Biden's first months in office were disappointing. This, remember, is the man who opened the more recent of his two futile runs for the presidency by saying of Obama that he was "the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."

Yes, that Joe Biden. The one who hollered at wheel-bound Missouri State Sen. Chuck Graham, to "stand up." The one who plagiarized a speech by Neil Kinnock. In other words a man who has flung himself into one rhetorical pratfall after another with the unswerving momentum of a blind rhino.

heheh

If'Madness is the absence of work'(Foucault), then Sanity is the presence of play..

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 04:39:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Being saintly doesn't mean you sell (bottom of page)

It would be nice to look at June's national newspaper ABC circulation figures, released this weekend, and find sanctity rewarded by sweeter sales. And you can make a good start along that track. Take the five biggest blaggers denounced by the Information Commission: the Mail is down 1.35% year-on-year, the People 8.3%, the Mirror 9.54%, the Mail on Sunday a startling 6.58% and the hackless News of the World 4.79%

But even holy crystal balls become clouded as the Sun and Star, head to head at 20p throughout most of the land, go up 1.48% and 3.45% respectively on May's figures, and the Express, also playing a price-lopping game, adds 1.36%.

Though the Telegraph soldiered on with its expenses scoop, sales only bobbed up 0.12% (and are 3.46% down on June 2008). And as for the utterly blameless Independent on Sunday, down 2.98% in a month and 22.47% in a year, what is there left to do except pray? Sanctity matters, but it doesn't always pay the rent.

Interesting information.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 09:59:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No one ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the public.

Also, cheap.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 11:58:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
funny pictures of cats with captions

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jul 12th, 2009 at 10:03:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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