Thursday Open Thread

by Colman
Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 09:40:56 AM EST

I spent several minutes trying to remember what day it was earlier. It's displayed on the top and bottom of my screen. This is an open thread, right?


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<waves at recent comments>
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 09:45:01 AM EST
recent comments wave back

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:13:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Workload at max + 10. I will be back. May take a few weeks. But I AM reading...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 09:46:42 AM EST
Five Ways the iPad Will Change Magazine Design | New at Pentagram | Pentagram

The new iPad from Apple, presented in typical Steve Jobs fashion as game-changing, will, in fact, revolutionize the way we read magazines. Combining the rich visual content of a print publication, the ever-changing immediacy of a website, and the portability of an e-book reader, the iPad is something new.

Pentagram's Luke Hayman, designer of, among others, Time, New York, and Travel + Leisure, was asked how this new format would change the world of magazines and came up with five ways off the top of his head.



If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 10:34:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's no matrix. It's a scattered scatter plot.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 11:10:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not educated enough to understand most of the references.

It looks like kind of some kind of self-referential Noo Yawk's media person's idea of rib-cracking humour.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 02:54:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If that thing become's the "new norm," illiteracy will accelerate. It's illegible! Prepare yourself for iPad Big Button Icon Fluency...

[head shot] [hen] [sunset] [doublebed] [currency symbol]

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:39:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If this new fangled writing thing catches on, society is doomed. Scratching lines on rocks was good enough for Jesus, should be good enough for us.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:59:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're only saying that because you want a job in an upscale New York design agency.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 04:22:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To me, it is quite clear that there are some technologies that radically change many people's behaviour - and when massive enough also change the intangible social infrastructure. Email v letters and postcards, mobile communications and the constant JIT readjustment of schedules, desktop sound studios, etc. But predicting the effects of any particular innovative technologies is much, much harder. The phase shifting ones, naturally, are more disruptive than the ones that simply enhance an existing experience. Reading a book on a Kindle is an example of the latter: the fundamental relationship of reading narrative is not affected, though there may be new opportunities for reading and, if you choose Kindle, some limitations not present with the book experience.

Personally, I don't see the iPad as game changing. It's convergent - yes - but most of the potential for behaviour change has already been established in the divergent technologies. A concept such as Maemo is simply an improved platform, like iPad. There are more benefits to the commercial infrastructure than to the end-user.

I think Quality of Service (QoS) changes in the mediation layer of networks will be far more game changing/behaviour changing. I note a shift from devices to infrastructure as a focus of the industry as a whole, at the moment. What most people do not realize is the importance of network capability - without which devices are redundant.

My prediction is that the fluctuating network loads - with periods when expensive network nodes are running at only 5% capacity is going to lead to big changes in pricing structures. Basically we are heading for price differentiation  based on motorways, and A, B and C roads. Bandwidth is the elephant dans la chambre. And very few device innovators think enough about bandwidth.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:42:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Right on one and a half counts.

The iPad is the computer for everyone else - the benefits of interwebbiness without the mousing, swearing, driver loading, and clicky-clicking.

Potentially that's still a big market, covering almost every age group.

It's the sucker on the end of the tentacle that will suck money out of your home while piping 'content' into it.

But - as you say - it's going to need moar bandwidth to make that a realistic model.

And - like all Apple products - it excludes, or tries to exclude, more open, more ragged and ugly, and less corporately authorised forms of human interaction.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 04:29:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What I'm suggesting is that the model in which 5% of users take 90% of the bandwidth (and they are mostly private users - who, as a whole, take 5 times more total bandwidth than corporates) is coming to an end. The networks don't like them.

We will have to see how the proprietary v OS models evolve....

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 04:40:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's exactly that.

But c'mon: They say Vanity Fair's despicable like it's a bad thing.  I don't read it very often, but I thought it was easily one of the more interesting weeklies.  They run some great investigative journalism now and then.

And Hitch is always good for a laugh.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 04:51:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reads like a bunch of self-serving marketing hype which we've all heard before.

Remember the Paperless Office™?  


No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:37:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A Finnish guru in the fibre business has long convinced me that the paperless office will never arrive, and that 80 % of Finland's refined fibre, in any case, goes into packaging. But all the Finnish newsprint and LWC mills are suffering at present. And there's not much sunshine on the horizon for them.

The paperless office is increasingly true per capita - but the increasing number of 'offices' around the world conceals that fact.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:58:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My printer prints a few pages a month. I write only occasionally, and mostly on text books, and that's mostly symbols. A decent sized tablet could cover that as well.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 04:04:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Where to begin counting teh stupid revealed in this tale of woe.

An Avondale woman who spent 11 days sleeping in her car said the city treated her unfairly when her home was condemned in December for lack of electricity. But city officials said Christine Stevens violated building codes, a health and safety concern because Avondale homes are required to have heating systems and a running refrigerator....

"I acknowledged that I remembered seeing something but it didn't look official, and I only saw one. It looked like something from my homeowners association," said Stevens, who lives in the Rancho Santa Fe subdivision....

Case documents cite a complaint from a neighbor in October. The unidentified woman complained about the property's appearance and said she believed there was no electricity powering the home....

Avondale officials said Stevens was in violation of the city's building codes. The city requires homes to have enough electricity to power a refrigerator, cool a residence to no higher than 88 degrees and heat a residence to at least 68 degrees.

Stevens told The Republic that six solar panels and eight batteries in her home provided light and powered either a computer or a television for three bedrooms. Stevens used an ice box for food and in September began to power a refrigerator with assistance from neighbors, who allowed her to run an extension-cord between the two homes. She did not power heating or cooling systems, but said that she managed without them by using her pool in the summer and sweaters in the cooler months....

Stevens was laid off as a risk compliance officer for Wells Fargo Bank in January 2009. She has been working as a security guard for Trident Security Services, making $200 a week, since November, she said.

Read more...



Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 11:46:01 AM EST
America, Land of the Free.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 11:50:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Alpha Mummy - Times Online - WBLG: Bad toy of the week: Her first Ouija board

As the parent of a 7-year-old girl, I have had to develop a tolerance of pink plastic objects. Personally, I find that they offend both my aesthetic sense and my notion of gender stereotyping. But we have to live and let live, don't we?

If some people care for garish pink tat, who am I to cavil and carp? If some of those people live in my house, all the more reason for me to find it in myself to put up with their predilections.

But here is where I draw the line. Toys R Us really are selling a pink Ouija board. For girls aged, it says on their site, 8-14 years.

Complete with planchette, and the legend 'Ask the questions girls want to know'



If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 11:59:33 AM EST
What's the problem here?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 12:03:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pink plastic woo-woo?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 12:14:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's occult. Also it's pink, making it easier for Satan to seduce young girls into his fold.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 12:59:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can we not conjure the image of Satan's pink folds?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 01:03:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do they make you feel sinful?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 01:14:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Stop right there.

You're 'bout to wander into pedophilic pr0n there, mister.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 01:14:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I see the pink plastic woo-woo is having quite a career.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 01:45:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The comments... The comments!
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 04:33:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Target had,  in the children's clothes section, a black t-shirt with a pink skull and crossbones sporting a pink bow.  I'm still contemplating the symbolism there...
by greatferm (greatferm-at-email.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 01:12:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Symbolism schmymbolism, I know at least one little girl who'd go for that.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 01:47:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know a big girl who'd be interested in a t-shirt like that.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 02:35:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Might be a size problem.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 02:41:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
'snot fair.

{Sulky pout, stamps foot and stomps off in a huff}

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:11:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
hee hee hee
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:21:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pink skull and crossbones t-shirt - Shop sales, stores & prices at TheFind.com
Found 98 stores with 1,256 products matching pink skull and crossbones t-shirt


If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 06:42:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have a big girl who has outgrown her pink skull and cross bones T shirt.
by Sassafras on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 07:16:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Alas, in her biker boots, she is now taller than me...

I said...in her biker boots...as it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that my son will be taller than me, I'm clinging on to not being the family shorty for every week I can...

by Sassafras on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 07:19:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tom Cruise and Sarko may have some tips for maximising one's height.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 07:32:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I just threaten to take the boots back...  :)
by Sassafras on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 07:40:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras (Reuters) -- Toppled Honduran President Manuel Zelaya emerged from months holed up in a Brazilian embassy compound and flew into exile in the Dominican Republic on Wednesday, ending a months-long political crisis as a new elected president took office.

Zelaya, ousted in a coup last June, boarded a plane that took off for the Dominican Republic shortly after opposition leader Porfirio Lobo, elected in November, was sworn in as president. Thousands of supporters at the airport cheered and shouted as the plane took off.



"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 12:23:42 PM EST
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Was Steve Richards being misleading?

Along with OGH (Mike Smithson) and one or two other PB'ers, I attended the excellent polling conference held at the sumptuous British Academy on Pall Mall last week. Nearly all of the "big hitters" from UK opinion polling were there - names such as John Curtice, Peter Kellner, and Andrew Cooper who should hopefully be familiar to most readers of this site.

Subjects included past vote weighting, telephone and internet polls, and exit polling (which had a brief diversion to Ukraine Presidential 2010!). The event was well worth attending and extremely useful in gaining a greater understanding of opinion polls, how they are put together and evaluated, and some of the issues surrounding them.

One of the most interesting parts of the day came towards the end, when the host asked the leading names present for an on-the-spot prediction of the general election (OGH by this time having had to leave in order to make his train). I made a careful note of the responses (the question asked was actually "what will be the Conservative percentage vote lead?" although the nature of the responses varied).



If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 12:53:09 PM EST
He's a political commentator with a vested interest in keeping the public on tenterhooks about the outcome of the contest. A blow out is no fun

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 02:34:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and talking of Steve Richards, he writes as Blair contemplates his appointment with the Gallows Chilcot inquiry.

Independent - Steve Richards - Those looking for a hidden scandal will be disappointed

For Blair the intelligence became part of his wider case. That the intelligence had become an argument, and was not being deployed in a neutral manner, was obvious at the time and only became shocking retrospectively, or rather some chose to be shocked: the BBC because it was going through a tabloid phase of seeking to shock for its own sake, the Conservatives because of opportunism even though they had seen the intelligence and were even more gung-ho for war, and some opponents of the war who claimed vindication.

Not all opponents of the war did so on such grounds. I opposed the war, but at no point thought it could be explained by dismissing Blair as a liar. Blair, with Brown's tacit support, made a political judgement about how a Labour government should position itself in relation to the United States. On that judgement both were certain. The rest was clearly more complex.

Evidently Blair regarded Saddam Hussein as a threat and had come to regard the removal of dictators as one of his causes. I doubt if he was as evangelical about this as his public performances suggest, but when a leader of a middling power signs up to the agenda of a much bigger one he has made the only decision in the sequence over which he has some control. After that Blair was largely in the hands of a divided, incompetent US administration and had no choice but to follow its timetable while pretending to be in command.
[....]
Blair put some of the dilemmas to me in an interview for The Independent in 2005. I quote it at length partly to show that leadership is more demanding and interesting than screaming that someone is a war criminal. It is also the only example I can find where Blair is reflective rather than unapologetically crusading, an unattractive evangelical façade that is partly a defence mechanism:......

although somebody did note recently that tonight Blair is probably rehearsing his answers tonight and will probably be up till 3 or 4 am. On the night of the invasion he had to be woken up at midnight to be told the invasion had begun. It will be worth remembering tomorrow that Blair lost more sleep over accounting for himself than he did over his complicity in sending tens of thousands of men, women and children to their death.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:01:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Steve Richards: Those looking for a hidden scandal will be disappointed - Steve Richards, Commentators - The Independent

After that Blair was largely in the hands of a divided, incompetent US administration and had no choice but to follow its timetable while pretending to be in command.

I wish he had felt strong enough to turn away but I do not underestimate what would have happened if he had done so. Those condemning him would have included many of his current tormentors in the media: "Blair turns his back on Bush as US removes evil dictator". The intensity would have quadrupled if he had withdrawn support later in the face of opposition here.

That's one of the most disngenuous and slimy things I've read about Iraq.

Harold Wilson managed to keep the UK out of Vietnam, when Britain had more cause to pretend to be imperial than there is today.

The 'hidden' scandal is obvious - a public servant was very likely murdered, the screws were put on the BBC for attempting to report the truth honestly, faith in democracy and in New Labour's good intentions were irrevocably destroyed - and all because Blair wanted to be a poodle.

That's not getting into the influence of the religious beliefs he hid from the electorate and pretended to disown.

Does Steve Richards think none of this matters - that it was all a bit unfortunate, but oh well, too bad, never mind?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:35:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Richards is trying to represent Blair's own argument fairly. He isn't doing the case for the prosecution which was done by john Kampfner on the same page

I can sympathise with his predicament to some extent even if I think he made the wrong decision. He knew he'd get hammered by the press if he allowed a fag paper's distance between his stance and that of the USA; foreign policy has always been about domestic ratings. Remember, Ian Duncan-Smith was particularly close to the WH at that time.

The press were outrageously gung-ho for war, after all it sells papers and makes owners share prices rise so it's difficult to argue against. Especially for an allegedly leftish govt that's already made a noise about "liberal interventionism", aka Backdoor Imperialism, to support kicking butts and taking names elsewhere in the arena of the White Man's Burden.

So, it probably did seem easier to go along with Bush and hope that it'd be alright on the night. They probably did think Saddam had WMDs, even if the evidence was annoyingly absent (proof more of his deviousness than of their non-existence).

No, I'm not defending him either because I have a profound suspicion of the motives of Western Countries who want ot go around "making things right". They always seem to want their pound of flesh (oil) if there's one available. And they are unsurprisingly disinterested in doing the right thing if the pound of flesh isn't obviously available (Zimbabwe).

So I don't think we are selfless enough to be trusted to make things right, even as a by-product of our baser motives. And that's why Blair was wrong. I don't really care about the "international law" angle, for the simple reason that only those who are politically weak, without powerful allies or the failed ever get called up. It's too much like victor's justice to get my respect. Oh, we can hang the odd Serbian or African out to dry, but White Anglo-Saxon men have done as bad and much worsefor western countries and  never felt the hot breath of pursuit on their necks.

And that's finally Tony's failing. The arrogant belief in the righteousness of his mission to do God's Work in the world allowed the Devil to do his worst.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 05:44:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I just spent the last two days at work reading web ride reports chronicling motorbike trips from the US to South America and back...

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 12:57:51 PM EST
No wonder you make the big bucks.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 02:28:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good work if you can find it...

I won't be particularly busy until I have new silicon in hand - which won't be until sometime in April with a bit of a ramp up in March when I'm getting the software ready.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 04:47:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Was Steve Richards being misleading?

Along with OGH (Mike Smithson) and one or two other PB'ers, I attended the excellent polling conference held at the sumptuous British Academy on Pall Mall last week. Nearly all of the "big hitters" from UK opinion polling were there - names such as John Curtice, Peter Kellner, and Andrew Cooper who should hopefully be familiar to most readers of this site.

Subjects included past vote weighting, telephone and internet polls, and exit polling (which had a brief diversion to Ukraine Presidential 2010!). The event was well worth attending and extremely useful in gaining a greater understanding of opinion polls, how they are put together and evaluated, and some of the issues surrounding them.

One of the most interesting parts of the day came towards the end, when the host asked the leading names present for an on-the-spot prediction of the general election (OGH by this time having had to leave in order to make his train). I made a careful note of the responses (the question asked was actually "what will be the Conservative percentage vote lead?" although the nature of the responses varied).



If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 12:58:10 PM EST
Radio is saying J.D. Salinger has died

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 01:03:43 PM EST
BBC News - Catcher in the Rye novelist JD Salinger dies at 91

The legendary author of The Catcher in the Rye, JD Salinger, has died at age 91 at his home in New Hampshire.

The reclusive novelist died of natural causes, his son said in a statement released by his literary agent.

The Catcher In The Rye, first published in 1951, is a tale of teenage angst. It has become one of the most influential American novels of the modern era.

The son of a Jewish businessman and Scots-Irish mother, Jerome David Salinger grew up in Manhattan.

Salinger enjoyed early success in the 1940s with the publication of numerous short stories in magazines, among them the New Yorker.



If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 01:27:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do Not Let Your Kids Near This Guitarist - The Who - Gawker
The Who are playing the Super Bowl in Miami next week. So 1,500 homes in Brevard Country received this warning about Pete Townshend. Kids: If he offers to let you "check out his Bridgestone Tires," tell an adult.


If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 01:26:34 PM EST
Still not understanding why a British band is playing at the championship game of a sport nobody outside of America and Canada watches.

Didn't understand U2 in 2002 either.

I got everything I wanted in the conference championships, though.  Annual Brett Favre Meltdown + JetsFAIL = Epic Win for Drew.  Even if Indy and its Steak-n'-Shake-stained-clothes-wearing bandwagon fans win another one.

So whatever.  I can live with The Who.  But I politely request a New Orleans victory in exchange, O' Football Gods.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 02:05:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, it's going to be interesting. I'm going to try to get the morning off so's I can watch it live, but I dunno, work is pretty flaky right now.

I thought the colts betrayed some serious weakness against the Jets. I imagine the Saints will be able to exploit the same loopholes to grater affect.

But I can't call this one at all

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 02:40:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wouldn't bet too high on the Aints capitalizing on the weaknesses the Jets exposed.  The Jets have the best defense in the league, and they're best against the pass, which made them uniquely qualified to go against Pey-Pey.

New Orleans was barely able to pull it off against Favre and the Vikings, despite Favre throwing two picks and losing a fumble, as well as two other lost fumbles by the running backs.  If Favre weren't doing his "gunslinger" thing, Minnesota might well have won it.

And, in the end, the Dolts got it together, and Manning ate the Jets alive.

There's very few quarterbacks who make me at all nervous.  Manning is the only one who actually leaves me assuming my team's going to lose if he's got the ball and anything more than a minute on the clock to win it.

Drew Brees is a good quarterback.  And if they'd let him wear his stilettos on the field (this being New Orleans and all), he might be tall enough to play.  So maybe NOLA can pull it off.  It'd be a nice ending (how can ya not root for New Orleans unless the opponent is Detroit?).

But I fear Pey-Pey's going to carve them up.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:00:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In his defence, Favre only went walkabout cos the Saints crushed the viking's defensive pocket. He got bad hits all thorugh the game that wore him down and, if it had been a regular season game, I'm sure they'd have taken him off after the ankle injury.

That surely played a part in the schoolboy error of throwing across himself for that last interception.

but overall I defer to your superior wisdom.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:09:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...adding: Despite that, I fully expect NOLA to keep it close and at least have a shot.  Should be a great game.  These are the two teams everybody wanted to see go up against each other all year.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:02:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't expect a blowout, but I don't expect to feel at any point in the game that Indy is not going to win.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 04:49:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's probably about right.

It's simply difficult for me to bet against Manning, who I think will eventually be considered the greatest quarterback to ever play.  All the great quarterbacks were great at a few critical things.  Manning can do everything they did, and all while reading the defense at the line and running his own offense.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 05:05:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What ? Even Montana ??

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 05:22:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think Manning has a command of the game that has not been seen before.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 05:43:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes.  I think he's probably the first quarterback who's ever been able to combine the brainpower that you see from good-but-not-great QBs like Pennington and McNabb -- both very good but never really had the arm strength needed to be the true franchise QB -- with the physical abilities of guys like Marino and Favre, who could flat chuck the ball seventy or eighty yards down the field with some level of accuracy but also brought a higher INT risk.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 06:14:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That sums it up. To make this even more American centric - I laughed when Bill Simmons tried to throw Brady into the conversation during his podcast this week (which I haven't finished yet as he talks to a Vikings fan for the second half). Now with the benefit of the Patriots dynasty being in the rear view mirror it's not close. Brady is an Hall Of Fame guy for sure, but he doesn't possess Manning's powers.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 06:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, God, Bill Simmons..."THE LEGENDARY RED SAWX FAITHFUL STAND BEHIND AHHHH QUARTAHBACK!"

Having blocked out all but one of the last ten years -- plus the Super Bowl when the Giants beat them and the incredible joy of shouting "18-1" at obnoxious Pats fans -- from memory in the AFC East, I'd forgotten Brady.  But, yeah, I guess I'd have to give him a nod, even if he's prissy and a whiner.  Brady's played some great seasons and on some great teams, but his stats add up to surprisingly little.  He's already going into his 11th season, and he's only at about 30,000 yards.  Even if you adjusted for the injury year, you'd still be looking at a pretty low figure.

Doesn't throw a lot of picks, though.  Have to give him that.  And he's never had a season in which he completed less than 60% of his passes, except his rookie year when he only had three attempts.

He doesn't seem to have the same confidence after the ACL tear, though.  And he looks completely lost without WELKAAAHHH.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 07:34:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...adding: "only 30,000 yards," said as though I could've thrown for a hundredth of that without getting my head taken off, of course.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 07:35:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Montana probably isn't even among the five best.  Manning, Marino, Favre, and Elway are all easily ahead of him.  Probably Warren Moon and Johnny U, too.

The guy's records were all blown away by Marino, Elway and Favre, and those three put up huge numbers and huge wins even when they were surrounded by clowns.

Manning vs Montana:

Montana played sixteen seasons to Manning's (so far) twelve, and, despite the massive difference in career length (Manning would throw for about 17,000 yards in another four seasons), Manning's already blown by Montana in the record books.  He's thrown for 10,000 yards more.  His QB rating is higher.  Higher completion percentage.  Better on all counts.

Montana is remembered as being a lot better and more important than he actually was.

To put some real perspective on it:

A good season for Montana was throwing for 3,000+ yards.  He never threw for more than 4,000 (3,944 was his best year).

3,944 yards would be Peyton Manning's third-worst season of his career (his worst was 3,739, which would be a great year on Montana's scorecard).

The last time Manning won less than 10 games in a season was 2001, keeping in mind that the Colts' lack of commitment to the run means Manning has to carry a much heavier load than Montana ever had to.

Montana always had a great team around him.  Everybody talks about Montana and the Super Bowls and all that, but winning championships is a team effort.  Great quarterbacks do great things even when they're surrounded by bad teams.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 05:59:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Tyranny of statistics. I'll grant you all of what you say is true, but anyone who says that Montana only won because he was surrounded by a great team is missing the point.

Steve Young took over the same team and the whole thing fell apart within two seasons. Not because Young was bad, but because Montana could make things happen in much the same way you describe Manning today. In a way that most QBs can't.

He didn't need the yardage Manning accumulates. The West Coast offence was all about 6 and 8 yard gains with quick release practically from the snap. That's your quick thinking command of the defence right there. He rarely retreated into the pocket to set up the 10s and 20s I see Manning throwing. And they had a good ground game to keep the defence guessing too (the lack of which was probably the main reason Marino never won anything with the Dolphins).

You can have all the quaterback yardage you want. Montana was a leader more than a thrower and there were occasions when his inspiration mattered more than any physical effort.

But finally Montana was in a different era and we measure greatness relative to their time. To ask who was better among say Unitas, Namath, Bradshaw, Montana or Manning is to miss the point. The game is different.
One might as well ask if Schumacher is a better F1 driver than Fangio.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 at 03:55:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Er?  Young was the Super Bowl MVP five years after Montana left.  But you're right in that the '9ers were never the mind-blowingly dominant force after Montana left and Rice got older.  (Rice is another one to keep in mind: Montana had the advantage of throwing to probably the best receiver to ever play during both their primes, and maybe the best overall player in league history.)

But Young had to deal with Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys, too, to be completely fair.  Johnson was off winning national championships with the U of Miami -- and taking them from my beloved Seminoles and our incompetent kickers (leaving us fans hearing the words "wide-right" in our nightmares to this day), that slick-haired little shit (but I'm over it -- whatever!) -- when Montana was making his mark.

Young was never as smart as Montana.  He was incredibly athletic, of course.  Just awkward as a QB, but that tends to happen with lefthand QBs for whatever reason.

The game is different, but it's a lot more different when comparing Manning with Unitas than with comparing Manning with Montana.  Unitas did a lot more in the game than any of those guys because it was a less-specialized game back then.

Fair point on the West Coast offense.  But even there, I think my point is valid about Manning being able to do all the little things that the other greats could only do a few of, and doing them better.

Manning runs a hybrid of the West Coast Offense and the traditional offense based on how he reads the defensive strategy and tactics during the game.  The Dolts' typical strategery is to stab teams with the 5- to 15-yard passes in order to keep the linebackers far enough back to make running the ball viable, or to make the safeties cheat up in order to open the long pass, with Manning choosing which of the two looks better at the line.  Indy doesn't have a great ground game.  More utility backs than workhorse running backs.  They can gash defenses if Manning can open up the field a bit for them.

WCO quarterbacks are a lot more dependent on their coordinators than traditional guys.  Again: Montana was asked to do a lot less than Manning.

None of this is to spit on Montana, just for the record.  But I think Montana often gets the nod simply by virtue of the fact that he was around before everybody but Johnny U and happened to be better than Bradshaw.

As for Marino and not winning the Super Bowl, he had numerous problems, some of which were his fault.  Once Duper and Clayton were gone, the Fins had a thoroughly unimpressive corps of wideouts.  (I guess OJ McDuffie was alright, but that's pretty much it.)  And their defense was awful through much of his career until Jimmy Johnson came along and fixed it (by which point Marino was borderline-bionic after having enough aluminum jammed in his legs to start his own car company).

His desperation to win a championship also led him to throw some really dumb passes in his later years.

Plus, Marino was really awful on short, quick passes.  Guy could hit a receiver between the numbers from 60 yards like it was nobody's business, but he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn on a screen or sling pass.  It got to be kind of hilariously bad when he reached his mid-30s.

(Which is what gives me some hope for the Fins' current Neanderthal of a quarterback, Chad Henne, who also can't throw the sling pass to save his life but can chuck it 90 yards and hit Ted Ginn in the hands before Ginn inevitably drops it.)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 at 07:55:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hee, nobody is funnier slagging off a team's shortcomings than a die-hard fan.

I know I can't discuss this on an equal basis, you know what you're talking about and, truthfully, I don't, but Montana wasn't all on his own. He was there at the same time as Marino and Elway and he had to go before Elway came to prominence.

Personally my favourite QB was Mad-Mac MacMahon of the Bears. They don't make characters like him anymore, but then they don't make teams like the 85 Bears anymore.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 at 08:21:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It was always a mystery to me why Miami didn't go all out to replace the Marks bros. Marino desperately needed good receivers and you're right, they had nothing but rubbish after those two.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 at 08:26:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey crew, no way do i have enough knowledge to enter this discussion.  But i will say, having seen almost every one of Montana's games, that there is much to the argument that stats aren't the story, just a part of describing the story.  and Montana's story was simply awesome. and that the game has indeed changed much in 30 years.

and that Bill Walsh played a significant role in making montana.


Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Fri Jan 29th, 2010 at 11:48:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
O hark! Superminority no barrier to lifting debt ceiling.

A joint resolution: "The U.S. Senate voted to increase the federal debt limit by $1.9 trillion, to $14.3 trillion, which lawmakers said would be enough to accommodate borrowing for the rest of this year. The vote was 60-39 for the measure, which now goes to the House. It would be the fifth time lawmakers raised the limit on government borrowing in the past two years. The vote is a win for Democrats who fended off Republican attempts to force them into repeated, smaller increases in the debt ceiling before the November elections."

ROLL CALL

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 01:54:41 PM EST
Womanist Musings
I wish that I could say that the tragedy in Haiti has caused people to recognize Western culpability in the state of that country.  I wish I could say that now that eyes have been opened, that the worldview of Haiti will change but such thoughts are utopian at best.  Even in the worst of circumstances there are always going to be those that hold onto their privilege with a death grip because to do otherwise would mean recognizing that they are not entitled to the life of ease to which they have become accustomed.  Paul Shirley wrote the following at Flip Collective:


If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 02:27:56 PM EST
Preparing for the incoming winter storm. Hopefully, we are far enough north so that we will get less than 0.5cm of ice build-up from freezing rain. From tonight through Saturday we could get over 8" of snow. One last trip to the store for essential supplies, (our favorite cookies), and then to bring enough dry firewood into the garage to get us through at least three days. Right now the sun shines through a partly cloudy sky, temp is +1C and no worse than light breezes. Fortunately the worst will hit after dark, when there is a better chance of the atmosphere being below freezing a long ways up.  See ya later.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:14:02 PM EST
Still packing yer freight containers??

Google wants the government to step up its support for Internet freedom in talks with China and other trading partners.

The search engine's senior lobbyist on Wednesday said a free Internet is an American value the administration should seek to protect.

"It's important to recognize that freedom of speech is not just a U.S. value, it's a value that lots of people around the world hold dear as well," said Alan Davidson, Google's director of U.S. policy and governmental affairs.

Read more...



Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:49:33 PM EST
Now they remember.

Do no evil what thou wilt

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 05:21:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fed VC?

"Our role is not unlike that of a private equity firm or venture capital firm trying to do due diligence ... to make sure we don't fund a bad project," Strickling said. "If these projects aren't running five years from now after the funding is long gone, we haven't done our job."

Read more...

"Our job" is awarding grants worth $4.7B.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 03:59:24 PM EST
I've had a mail from Sense About Science, regarding the case of Simon Singh, the science writer fighting a libel case from the British Chiropractic Association.

From the Guardian (and presumably cleared by very expensive lawyers):

Simon Singh was sued by the BCA after he wrote an article in the Guardian criticising the association for supporting members who claim that chiropractic treatments - which involve manipulation of the spine - can treat children's colic, sleeping and feeding problems, frequent ear infections, asthma and prolonged crying.

Singh described the treatments, for which he said there is no evidence, as "bogus" and criticised the BCA for "happily promoting" them.

Sign the libel reform petition here.  You don't have to be British.  The aim is 100,000 signatures.  Please sign it and circulate it, because I think, potentially, it affects everyone who writes online.

by Sassafras on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 06:22:35 PM EST


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