Why I call myself a European

by Sven Triloqvist Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 07:53:35 AM EST

And why so many things about the US now disgust me.

I am proud to call myself a European, and especially a Nordic citizen. I live with the hope that Europe might yet institute some of the mainstays of Nordic society:

Free and equal access to education for all
Virtually free healthcare
Relatively transparent politics without corporate influence
A professional non-jury system of courts
A prison system aimed at rehabilitation
Collective bargaining
Freedom of speech
Narrow salary differentials
Relatively unpoliticised media
Efficient and diverse public transport systems
Defence forces only (peacekeeping) + national service
The separation of retail and venture banking
Careful management of innovation chains
Research cooperation between state, corporations and academia
Focus on clean technologies
High standards of food safety
Minimal corruption
Respect for the organic ecosystem
Long holidays for workers
Run by engineers, not lawyers
And so on.

Together these values create a stable, safe, just, equitable, compassionate and sustainable society - in theory. The Nordic countries are not perfect - far from it. Neither are they ideologically socialist: more consensus-minded, which is not quite the same thing. But they do work - rather efficiently. Taxes are not as high as often claimed, though higher than the European average - but most Finns, at least, would say that the services that are provided by the state are worth the reduction in their so-called disposable income.

These values are not individually unique to the Nordics - it is the combination of them that is unique. And there are many reasons why these values have evolved through a particular social history that is very different from, say, those European countries that passed through the social fragmentation of the Industrial Revolution.

This period of social stability in the Nordics is only 50 years old. It may not last. But it is worth defending and promoting so that it can survive and prosper - sustainably.

I am proud to be a European because I believe many European citizens aspire to these same values, and may one day be able to persuade their governments to adopt them. I believe they are ET values too.

I am also proud to be European because I enjoy the cultural diversity of European countries. I am also a (critical) admirer of the European Union: the institutions are efficient - it's the inept application of EU policies and funding in member countries, which leads to many of the perceived problems with the EU. And the global values that the EU projects are worthwhile and mostly supportable.

I started writing this an hour ago on the edge of a rant against the latest selfish US elite 600 bill QE2, which throws any G20 accords out of the window, and, in a desperate attempt to maintain a profligate, menacing, wasteful and empty state, is ready to screw the rest of the world.

I don't see how the US can be repaired. The US is fucked.

The reason for this diary is to ask how Europe and the rest of the world can insulate themselves from this toxic elephant in, if you will, its death throes.

Why I call myself a European | 40 comments (40 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Why I call myself a European (4.00 / 6)

I don't see how the US can be repaired either. All the mechanisms for repair are in the hands of the enemy.

And then you read the comments to a middle-of-the road column like this:

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2010/nov/05/americans-against-themselves/

It's not so much that they are fucked...it's more like a meth-addict masturbating to death.

by PIGL (stevec@boreal.gmail@com) on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 10:53:45 AM EST

Re: Why I call myself a European (4.00 / 3)

Excellent synopsis by Dworkin; definitely worth a read. Thanks for the link PIGL.

by sgr2 on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 12:22:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (4.00 / 6)

"... yet deeply puzzling. Why do so many Americans insist on voting against their own best interests? "

I don't know why he says it's "puzzling" - he supplies the obvious explanation at the end:

We should fear two further consequences of the 2010 elections. A grotesque amount of money--up to $110 million--was spent on Congressional campaigns by sources kept secret. Spending by outside organizations has dwarfed spending by the Republican and Democratic party committees themselves, and we can expect exponentially more spending in the much higher-stakes presidential election to come. Those who claimed that the Supreme Court's ruling in the Citizens United case would make little difference to our politics have been quickly and dramatically proved wrong.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 05:29:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (4.00 / 15)

To correct a problem the first step is to admit there is a problem. As of Nov. 7, 2010 I don't see indications the leaders and decision makers in the EU have taken that step.

The Chinese have taken this step. A friend, recently in China, was asked time and again, "When do you think the revolution in the US will start?" This friend was meeting with some Serious People© in the China. High level advisors to their leaders and decision makers. They asked the question, I am informed, not from schadenfreude but from panic. They know their economy is intimately entwined with the US and are desperate to have enough time to untwine so when the US goes down it doesn't drag them over the cliff as well.

(That's what is called "a stick"! :-)

My off the top of my head suggestions are:

France and Germany need to realize what the near future is. The US is going down. There's no stopping it. Thus the leaders of France and Germany need to stop putting the US in the forefront of their near and long range thinking.
Germany needs to grasp a "beggar thy neighbor" economic policy is only going to end up beggaring themselves.
Britain, Germany, and France (for different reasons) need to get over themselves and realize they need the rest of the EU as much as the rest of the EU needs them.
Energy, energy, energy. The EU needs to stop dicking around and put a full-bore effort into sustainable power plants. This is particularly important for the Scandinavian countries. They don't have winter they have WINTER. They also have a short growing season so they will need to produce more food using greenhouses, CAFOs, and other energy intensive horticultural techniques.

[Note: CAFOs can be run humanely and sustainably. The effluent (poop and piss) can be 'tanked-off' and used for fertilizer ... if the will and the energy is there to use it that way.]

5. The EU needs to re-direct the CAP funds to maximize food value. This means shifting money from field cropping to horticulture and other sustainable farming practices. Another advantage of this will be a re-vitalization of the rural economies of the EU and lower unemployment through an economic pushed land reform - especially important in Britain.

I note greenhouses in Britain, powered and heated by horse manure, produced pineapples in Cornwall. This old technology could be resurrected and applied to, perhaps, more realistic foodstuffs.

Somehow, someway, Russia, or at least the Ukraine, has to be brought-in to the EU economically. The EU doesn't have a hope of growing enough coarse grains to feed itself. The EU + (Russia or Ukraine) does.
Unless the EU wants to follow the US into a Greater Depression knock it the fuck off with Neo-Classical Economics!!!
The EU needs to move from the "Industrial Revolution" mentality to a Co-operative, Creative, and Consumer-oriented mentality.
A non-oil based transportation network needs to be constructed. The EU is much less reliant on oil than the US but the 'first mile' and 'final mile' is still too dependent on trucks.
Clean up the damn Baltic and North Sea and you'll have more fish than you can eat. These used to be rich fishing grounds. You've pissed into them and turned them into a sewer.

10.A. If you let the Iceland slip out of your fingers you're insane. Not only do they have the cod fishing grounds they also have potential geo-thermal energy running out of their ears. Going to pay, one way or the other, for that cod and energy. Pay less if Iceland is in the EU.

I submit following these suggestions will decrease unemployment, kick start new businesses, increase the standard of living, and circulate more money within the EU. Together these are (some of) the requirements for an active, vital, micro-economy which lessens the impacts of a collapsing global economy.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 12:15:22 PM EST

Re: Why I call myself a European (none / 1)

You make some good points AT. Sven makes some good points too. Right now, I identify more with the European/Nordic model because it feels right to me in terms of fairness, seems to work well on a practical level, and I live here now. But no system is totally perfect and were I to be accused of some legal wrongdoing I would most certainly prefer the American justice system of being judged by a jury of my peers (all 12 of them), rather than just one jurist who (might/probably) thinks they know it all. But that's just me.

What I really don't get is this being 'proud' stuff. Most people don't get to pick and choose where they're going to live. They're born where they're born and have little or no choice over the matter. I really don't like this attitude of posturing of 'we're better than you are,' la dee da crap. What I see is an absence of kindness and an unwillingness to get along. Once that gets put aside, quite possibly good things can happen.

But yeah, sure, of course I'm proud. Proud I'm a global citizen and that I've gotten to live so long.

Hope springs eternal.

by sgr2 on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 12:47:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (4.00 / 3)

Thank you.

I think pride is OK as long as it isn't "I'm proud of being <whatever> and everybody else is a second-rate, at best, loser."

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 12:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (4.00 / 3)

How about occasionally wondering at the idea that anybody would want to live anywhere else? Not than I, or anyone who lives near me, has ever felt this way, not at all.

by MarekNYC on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 01:12:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (none / 1)

Good comment.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 01:31:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (none / 0)

I'm sorry, I guess I'm just dense, but I really don't quite understand your comment, although I'd like to. Do you mean that most people never have a desire to live in a country other than their country of birth, or to experience another culture from the standpoint of curiosity and learning about others? Perhaps this is so, I don't know really. Is this what you meant?

by sgr2 on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 05:00:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (none / 1)

The comment was mainly a joke on the (in)famous high regard in which New Yorkers hold their city and which I share. But it was also meant to indicate that group identities of this type are to a degree natural and not necessarily all that pernicious. In the case of New Yorkers it is mainly directed at the residents of other cities in the country and at anybody who might actually want to live in the suburbs, any suburbs. The other great cities of the world get a semi-pass from those who are familiar with them.

As for me, I've spent a considerable part of my life living abroad, mainly Switzerland though also a fair amount of time in Poland and a bit of time in Germany. I also happen to have two national identities (Poland and the US with the latter a bit stronger than the former), and I tend to think of them as 'natural'. By that I mean that, yes, these are a thoroughly culturally constructed form of identity, but late twentieth century societies do push you quite strongly in that direction. In any case, pretty much everyone has some sort of set of their own group identities and they're all cultural constructs. Furthermore, the kind geographically defined identity of place of residence that New York City has, shares many characteristics with national identity and is one of the main precursors of the modern national identity that emerged in its full form in the nineteenth century. This is especially true of urban ones since cities have also always been polities.

by MarekNYC on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 07:34:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (none / 0)

I can clearly understand why New Yorkers hold their city in such high esteem; it's a fabulous place to visit and (according to my friends who reside there) a swell place to live (f you've got the cash, of course).

Thanks for taking the time to elaborate. I appreciated hearing your viewpoint and your history.

by sgr2 on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 05:59:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (4.00 / 7)

By proud, I mean ready to defend the European concept against nationalist or unilateralist arguments. I can't do anything about where I was born, and I am aware of all the privileges.

I have steadfastly, in the past, refused to 'join' anything because I didn't like other people speaking on my behalf. ET is the first organization that I have joined for serious reasons, and the development of a better Europe is one of the main reasons for ET's existence.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 01:12:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (4.00 / 3)

"I have steadfastly, in the past, refused to 'join' anything because I didn't like other people speaking on my behalf."

This is one of the effects of the dominance of the ideology of individualism - while in reality unity is strength. Other people, not at ones you might prefer, get to power and so speak on your behalf, partly because too many others didn't join something that, collectively, might have been effective in getting someone into power closer to your own ideas and values.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 05:37:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (none / 0)

Yes.
I am pretty much a loner, but I recognize that the ultimate power- perhaps the final power- of the people is the ability to act in consort.
"Joining" implies a commonality of interests and objectives, which requires the ability to communicate these things- to chew on them with friends of like mind, until an agreement emerges. Then, as Joachim Wach pointed out, a "flight leader" is a good thing, if the theater is on fire.
But US citizens are generally busy with their toys, - and "joining" is so over- like marching, the hippies and all that stuff.

Maybe when the shit hits the fan this will change.
Personally, my real fear is that, as the dragon flails it's last, it will nuke someone.
If we get past that, then it's all tough, but possible.
Then Nordic Europe may be a new, better model.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 at 06:00:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Partnership (none / 1)

I don't think I am a victim of the ideology of individualism. For most of my life I have worked in collectives, teams, groups and crews. I regard one of my skills as helping to motivate cooperation in creative effort. If there were hierarchies, they were very open ones.

So these types of loose 'organization' are not ones where others speak on my behalf. Corporations, political parties, unions, religions, social groups, gender groups etc - these are the organizations I do not want to join.

I'm not really interested in voting someone into power who I don't understand quite well through long contact. I have had all sorts of media available through which to make my 'vote' clear, along with others who thought the same (creative) way. It's one of the Estates, you know...

But if J, for instance, sought political office and I could help, then I would: one person who I would definitely allow to speak on my behalf.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 at 01:53:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (4.00 / 3)

I can precisely identify the moment when I first thought that the USA was maybe doomed. I cannot remember when it was - but a long time ago: the information that boggled the mind was that the USA was using a quarter of the world's produced energy.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 01:55:53 PM EST

Re: Why I call myself a European (none / 1)

what does "doomed" mean?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 02:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (none / 0)

Unsustainable.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 02:19:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The entire current political economy will ... (4.00 / 2)

... collapse and will either have to be replaced with something else or else Americans get used to living in a collapsed political economy (as Congolese did for over a decade before a tiny neighbor toppled the hollow shell, akin to the Maritimes invading and conquering the US).

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 06:22:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Some nasty language in this diary (none / 0)

Why has no one mentioned the Pentagon and the US proclivity to invade other countries on a whim?

US going down? You obviously mean mainstreet. The public without plentiful foodstocks? Even my impoverished parents always had plenty of food. This will prove interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sun Nov 7th, 2010 at 04:18:43 PM EST

Re: Some nasty language in this diary (4.00 / 3)

I think that I can answer your question Twank.

The first list (Sven's) is more like a list of high level goals.

ATinNM's is a list of action items, some perhaps projects, some long term programs.

The first answers: What I am fighting for.
The second answers: How will I fight for them.

What you are asking is for a list of: What mistakes we don't want to make again. This is actually an important list, though it could go on for days and days. But to make good policy positions, one has to know what has been successful (and vice versa.)

The problem with such a list is that it is quite unreal to most USians. They typically don't have a coherent grasp of their history. Even the mildest list wouldn't ring true. Perhaps it is because they haven't lived history to the extent that many countries have recently. Perhaps it is because they are easily satiated by the promise of the TV culture they are surrounded with. But even the concept of invading other countries is remote to them. Most would say that it has only happened 2 or 3 times, and only then for the good of the entire planet, who we have saved several other times. Somehow that problem has to be solved for a real solution to happen there.

Interesting point you make about even our impoverished parents/grand parents/great grandparents having gotten by. Certainly there are many who don't have plenty of food now.

As you say: This will prove interesting.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 08:36:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

May I parse this one sentence (none / 0)

What mistakes we don't want to make again.

Mistakes? As an example, on today's (Mon. Nov. 8th) Democracy Now! it's reported that Obama's Indian visit will benefit US arms manufacturers and the ultrawealthy. So what is a mistake? If you get rich and other people get killed, that's no mistake to the former.

We? Who is this we? Do the people who visit/blog at ET have any significant voice in world affairs? I haven't seen it.

I'm just being a realist. The US is all about the ultrarich and war. Before this house of cards collapses I expect the worst and nothing even in the MSM makes me think otherwise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 09:10:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: May I parse this one sentence (4.00 / 3)

The US you live in Twank is all about the rich and their ability to twist ideas and usurp the Commons for their sole benefit.

The US that pushed a revolution had the goals of We the People forming a more perfect Union, establishing Justice, insuring domestic Tranquility, providing for the common defense, promoting the general Welfare, and securing the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity.

How did that change and what does it take to get back to it?

According to my matrix, the filter that everything has to go through is the policies, rules made to ensure that actions trend toward the goal or away from them; rules to ensure that long-term group benefits take priority over short-term individual benefits.

Clearly, violating the over-arching Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty by following a malignancy of a Bush era law does not fit through the filter. For all the reasons that they say that they are sanctioning anyone who does business with Iran, it is orders of magnitude more important not to be dealing with India's government or military or energy industry.

So, how does this change? Well, according to Mr. Quixote we keep attacking the charging monsters. But I don't have a horse, nor am I allegorically delusional.

I think that the best we can do is keep putting truth into the record (lest it get lost), and devising methods of getting progressive ideas into the general conversation. If there is only a sea of distortion to fly over, the butterfly(s) might find it difficult to start the storms of sanity.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 03:59:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: May I parse this one sentence (none / 0)

siegestate:

I think that the best we can do is keep putting truth into the record (lest it get lost), and devising methods of getting progressive ideas into the general conversation.

nicely put.

it's humble somethings, multiplied, that will get us to a calm, wise, balanced future, one where we can turn up the resolution on the drama in small things, instead of being distracted -and destroyed- by too much drama over huge ones.

common sense over ideologies, much more sustainable. keep kneading!

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 at 03:08:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Some nasty language in this diary (4.00 / 2)

USA going down?
Obviously it's not about food ;) ...all tho you wouldn't believe how it is possible for probably more than a half of population to be literally hungry in a country that produce a lot of food (agricultural hugely).Serbia was hungry...Germany was hungry...even USA was hungry to the extend. Just make an inflation of few million percentages and see how your supermarkets become empty and closed.
But it's not how USA will go down. USA will probably go down SSSR style. It will be forced to abandon a lot of territories abroad (closing military bases, not enough money for the Army etc.) and will eventually come to the point where it will need to have much more controlled (planed) economy. It will probably come to some form of dictatorship (capitalistic style rather than Putin's style).
What I feel is that before this happens USA will drown (economically) everybody else in the world trying to postpone it and praying for miracle to happen.
I would be actually very scared that they may start WWIII in the process but it's obvious even to them now that they can't afford another war let alone WW and times are not very inspiring for others to join that kind of adventure ( all being in red right now).OK they can go nuclear but against whom? Russia and China are out of the question because they have capacity to retaliate...And also nuclear war wouldn't be good for USA economy as conventional one is.
China is going to take USA place as biggest world economy pretty much soon(less than 10 years they said today on TV).
So USA will just "downsize" in a way and take the place it deserves.
It was not really good for the world when SSSR collapsed because there was not any more "two sides" and USA got out of its way being "the only remaining superpower". The same way it would not be good if after USA collapse China takes its place. It will behave same way no doubts...they are already buying half of the world (and USA is selling its stake in it).
To be perfectly honest the only way to stop China would probably be for Europe and Russia to put their acts together and make "the other side". Balance of the power must be made.USA may even join after recovery but it would be "one of the equal".
Well OK I am blabbering and what do I know about political strategies.
I can only tell you that American's are "making peace" with New Zealand military (must come at the price) and they plan to make their military much more visible (and in bigger numbers) here in Australia. They are afraid of raising China. Seems they are now much more interested in the Pacific...and I don't like it because this will make us targets. On the other hand...

by vbo on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 09:34:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Question for the group (none / 0)

What would be the effect if a Rand Paul gets his wish and the US doesn't approve a raising of the US debt ceiling? I've heard use of the word default. How would that feed into the mix?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 09:42:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Question for the group (none / 0)

As of today, not raising the US debt ceiling would initiate a straight-forward collapse of the US economy followed, within a year, by a collapse of the global economy.

The EU can buffer/insulate itself from the US and global collapse IFF they stop doing silly things and start preparing.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 12:32:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Question for the group (none / 0)

The EU can buffer/insulate itself from the US and global collapse IFF they stop doing silly things ...

Here's my list:

Take off the phony red noses, fright wigs, and floppy shoes.
Stop pretending that Berlu's antics with young ladies has any importance. Flood the old bastard with HIV laden tarts and let him die.
Start a "Bank of ET" and begin your own small businesses. Become a living, breathing, viable community unto yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 04:35:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Question for the group (none / 1)

You know, I think the original motivation for the EU had a significant component of just that objective- to decouple the European economy from the collapsing US economy. The failure has been obvious for a long time- so obvious that even I saw it.
So what happened?
I think Naomi Kline offers the best description, but others have written well on the subject of the predatory aspects of "supercapitalism" or a deregulated world marketplace.
Predation and greed, which spread like a wildfire, overtook the slower process of realization of the US collapse and strategic planning for that reality--- and torched it.
The EU roadmap of today leads into the same shitcan as the US roadmap- just slower. But I see the possibility of a better route. In truth, the best hope for Europe is that the US collapses quickly enough to offer the needed shock therapy, before the predators strip the European world of the necessary resources to change course.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 at 05:31:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Question for the group (4.00 / 4)

Simples. The US prints dollars and buys its debt back, in QE 3, 4, 5 and so on. It's only if your debt is not denominated in your currency that you have a problem: hello Greece; hello Ireland etc etc

End of problem until Johnny Foreigner thinks he'd like something other than dollars in payment for his stuff.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 02:06:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Question for the group (none / 1)

USA is trying hard to inflate dollar to be able to "pay" its debt...but it's not going well. Others are not that stupid (especially China) .That why we'll see currency wars. Will USA manage to see its task completed? Time is of essence...

by vbo on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 06:25:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (none / 0)

I don't know why but after all the news coming from EU lately your list looks like a wishful thinking to me... Maybe it's applicable to Nordic Europe but you are not alone...You are mingled to the mess...

by vbo on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 06:52:59 PM EST

Not wishful thinking (none / 0)

The list is true for Finland, and, I believe, Sweden and Norway. JakeS can say whether it is true for Denmark. The Netherlands is perhaps the most 'advanced ' society in Europe.

But yes, we are 'not alone'. Finland is not isolated from the global economy.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 at 12:28:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not wishful thinking (none / 1)

The list is true for Finland, and, I believe, Sweden and Norway. JakeS can say whether it is true for Denmark.

Still here, for the moment:

Free and equal access to education for all
Virtually free healthcare
Collective bargaining
Freedom of speech
High standards of food safety
Long holidays for workers

Kinda sorta, at least when compared to the rest of the world:

A prison system aimed at rehabilitation
Narrow salary differentials
Focus on clean technologies
Minimal corruption
Respect for the organic ecosystem
Run by engineers, not lawyers

Fond wishes:

- Relatively transparent politics without corporate influence

If I could be bothered to go over the tax statements from Ny(Liberal) Alliance (assuming they're public or have been leaked), I could tell you - to the € - how much a Danish parliamentary seat costs.

- A professional non-jury system of courts

Which, however, has absolutely no stomach for judicial review, meaning that a Danish government can break the constitution, international law and the UN charter with the same unquestioned impunity that the rest of us break traffic regulations.

- Relatively unpoliticised media

Only because they're too lazy to do any post-production work beyond putting the names of their own newsies on the press releases they're spoon-fed by the spin doctors.

- Efficient and diverse public transport systems

Our rail net would cause an East German to die from convulsive laughter.

- Defence forces only (peacekeeping) + national service

Which just happens to be "peacekeeping" in an American colonial war at the moment.

- The separation of retail and venture banking

Eliminated earlier in this decade.

- Careful management of innovation chains

No, not really.

- Research cooperation between state, corporations and academia

If by "cooperation" you mean having a government that views academia as a service provider for corporations and a way to get scientific rubber-stamps on whatever quackery of the day the government wants to push.

All of that is par for the course for the sort of wingnuts who've been running the show since 2001, but the sad thing is that all we have on the putative left are Schröderite sellouts and orthodox Marxians.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Nov 14th, 2010 at 07:16:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (none / 0)

Looks like wishful thinking to me too. What is hopeful is the popular resistance in France. It seems they stand almost alone.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 at 05:32:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (none / 0)

A correction: I think the list is largely true for Nordic Europe. I'd move there tomorrow if I could survive the climate. But the pressures there are mounting. My good friend in Denmark is astounded at the changes he sees, the swing to the right. The authoritarian wave he sees is scary. Our two years in Friesland were at a time of a clear rightward shift, a clear rejection of the old ethic of tolerance that seems to me to be the bedrock of Dutch stability- that lent a certain sweetness to the Dutch culture.

ATinNM is right. Better get a move on, friends, while there is time.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 at 05:42:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (none / 0)

Nothing wrong with the climate that proper clothing does not solve.

Oh well, there was a snowstorm today, and warnings against driving. But that just means that you should dress for walking in snow, if you are going to drive.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 at 02:34:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (none / 0)

Yes, there's a bit of aggravated pyry (lovely word) going on at the moment here.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 at 03:09:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pyry (none / 0)

One of the southern most neighborhoods in the city of Warsaw, according to Google.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Tue Nov 9th, 2010 at 05:16:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I call myself a European (4.00 / 4)

Nice list there Sven...
Who wouldn't like to live in Europe after reading it ;)

by vbo on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 06:54:06 PM EST

Why I call myself a European | 40 comments (40 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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Why I call myself a European

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