European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

From Eurosceptic to skeptical about the EU

by Colman
Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 08:54:06 AM EST

James Clive Matthews, aka Nosemonkey is one of my favourite bloggers on the EU. In an interview with Shift Magazine, he describes his path from Eurosceptic to someone who's in favour of the EU in principle, even if the current implementation is flawed (which of course it is - if only we all agreed what those flaws were).

The second major problem – which is a significant part of the reason that I was driven away from being eurosceptic – is that anti-EU groups and commentators tend to repeat misinformation and misinterpretations as if they were objective fact. The classic is the claim that “80% of laws come from the EU” – a claim that has been repeated so often now that many people (even non-eurosceptics) have started to assume that it’s true. I investigated this claim in detail on the blog just before the European Elections back in the summer, and found it to be absolute rubbish – as are most claims about the EU’s influence. The real figure for most EU member states is somewhere in the region of 10-20% of all legislation *and* regulations – and quite often lower.
There’s two possible reasons why eurosceptic campaigners would repeat the 80% claim (and the many other false claims like it):
1) They genuinely believe that it’s true – in which case they haven’t done their research (because if they had they’d realise it was false), and if they haven’t done their research on this, what else haven’t they done their research on? They can’t be trusted.
2) They know that it’s false, but repeat it anyway to gain support. In which case they’re liars and can’t be trusted.

Interesting stuff.

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From Eurosceptic to skeptical about the EU | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: From Eurosceptic to skeptical about the EU (4.00 / 3)

"Eurosceptics" aren't skeptical about the EU - I'll assume they're not skeptical on the existence of Europe - they're anti-EU. "Climate change skeptics" aren't skeptical about human caused climate change, they presume it didn't happen. How do they manage to get these labels? Is there a raffle the good guys don't enter?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 08:59:12 AM EST

Re: From Eurosceptic to skeptical about the EU (none / 1)

They give themselves the labels. The good guys think truth is on their side so they don't have to play the branding game.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 09:43:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From Eurosceptic to skeptical about the EU (4.00 / 4)

Nosemonkey interviewed: On euroscepticism | Nosemonkey's EUtopia

4. Five good reasons to be Eurosceptic and Five good reasons to be Pro- European in Europe today?
Eurosceptic:
1. The EU is flawed.
2. The EU is less democratic than many would like.
3. The EU is remote from the people, and often seems deliberately so.
4. Parts of the EU organisational structure are secretive and protective of their own interests.
5. There is some evidence of corruption in some parts of the EU's organisation.
Pro-EU:
1. The ideal of bringing people together for mutual benefit is a fundamentally good one.
2. The EU does aid intra-European trade
3. The EU has eased intra-European travel.
4. The EU has helped break down barriers and increase understandings and friendships between nations and the people of those nations
5. The EU allows for regular, multi-level contact between the governments and state machinery of every member state in an absolutely unprecedented manner, allowing for a level of interaction that is entirely impossible using traditional methods of international diplomacy - used properly this can be an incredibly powerful, beneficial tool for all parties.

I wish it would be more than that, but nosemonkey certainly 'got' the point of the intergovernmental part.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 10:01:39 AM EST

Re: From Eurosceptic to skeptical about the EU (none / 1)

It IS more than better intergovernmental stuff - which happens mostly through the Council. It is also transnational or supranational in the form of the Commission, ECJ and EP.

I think 65 years of peace between former mortal enemies and rivals who used to kill each other by the millions is also worth a mention in its own right.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 12:41:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From Eurosceptic to skeptical about the EU (none / 1)

But wars between major European states are ancient history and what's more could never happen again, on account of our undying commitment to NATO. Plus, oh, look...Russia!!! And brown people.

Unswerving subservience to the American Imperium is the only thing keeping the nations of western Europe from warring amongst themselves, or being conquered by the wily bear.

by PIGL on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 07:49:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From Eurosceptic to skeptical about the EU (none / 0)

Why is Eurosceptic with a "C" whilst skeptical is with a "K". Is one harder than the other?

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 03:17:17 PM EST

Re: From Eurosceptic to skeptical about the EU (none / 0)

I was wondering that too.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 03:26:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From Eurosceptic to skeptical about the EU (none / 0)

Me too... I only ever use "c".

There's a strange tendency among some editorial types to "correct" other people's spelling (and grammar) even when it doesn't need it, I find.

Nosemonkey

by Nosemonkey (nosemonkey [at] gmail [dot] com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 05:18:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From Eurosceptic to skeptical about the EU (none / 0)

British v. American spelling?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 03:26:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From Eurosceptic to skeptical about the EU (none / 1)

British: sceptic
American: skeptik, no, skeptic.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 04:14:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: From Eurosceptic to skeptical about the EU (none / 1)

You cnight of the Centish Cing!

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 05:56:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

From Eurosceptic to skeptical about the EU | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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