Wednesday Open Thread

by In Wales
Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 11:14:10 AM EST

Some might say...


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So, NATO eh ? What do you think ?

;-)

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 11:39:32 AM EST
You wouldn't get much for it at a rummage sale.
by Richard Lyon (rllyon@gmail.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 11:44:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Tart it up a bit and try it on Ebay?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 11:52:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's like High Speed Rail and Muslims in Europe, nobody really cares about these topics on this forum.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 11:54:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I seriously believe that things have reached the point where the US can simply no longer afford to foot the bill. It is also pretty clear that people in Europe have many other demands for their economic resources. China certainly isn't even going to give lip service to it. I can't see any options remaining.
by Richard Lyon (rllyon@gmail.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 12:00:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The U.S. will stir the hornets nests that is Afghanistan and Pakistan until Europeans see that part of the world as a threat to their security.

NATO being in Afghanistan is, after all, a "'symptom of deeper problems with the way NATO perceives threats,' assesses its defense needs and sets spending priorities," according to U.S. Defense War Secretary Gates.

"The demilitarization of Europe - where large swaths of the general public and political class are averse to military force and the risks that go with it - has gone from a blessing in the 20th century to an impediment to achieving real security and lasting peace in the 21st."

War is peace.

by Magnifico on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 01:01:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is it really going to be possible to create an all new and improved version of European cold war paranoia over the Islamic world? That's what the US has been pushing for the past 8 years and it really doesn't seem to be selling very well. Whatever one might have actually believed about how much of a threat was posed by the USSR, they did have lots of tanks and nukes.
by Richard Lyon (rllyon@gmail.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 01:11:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, but the new version is sooo much better.  Tanks and nukes made unambiguous targets.  Spy satellites could count them and assess the risk with some degree of accuracy.  The new existential threat to our Way of Life(TM) is mysterious and unclear.  They could be anywhere.  Why even that nice man with the funny accent who runs the quick stop on the corner could be secretly building underwear bombs in his basement.  I mean, you never can tell with those people.  Be afraid, be very afraid.

Somewhere in cyberspace, the ghost of de Chardin is smiling.
by budr on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 01:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Richard Lyon:
Is it really going to be possible to create an all new and improved version of European cold war paranoia over the Islamic world?

certainly it's possible, it's happening in front of our eyes.

and if it weren't, the investment of our taxes in pulverizing their civilians constantly in their own countries will create it, so...

and to add more profits, give ordinary peasants lots of guns, that 'investment' can be an efficient loss leader, leading to orders for much more pricey hardware later.

fear paralyzes action, and when that doesn't work, flog them hope. the better the first tactic works, the better the second one does too.

quite the little lesson in symbiotic evil.

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:00:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Speaking of which, this diary at the orange satan was pulled out of diary rescue. A really good, long essay about the US in Afghanistan.

I wish it could have been posted here cos it would have had created a better discussion than it got there.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:42:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed:

Daily Kos: Afghanistan: winning the war of perceptions

While European leaders stand ready to condemn Israel for assassinating a single Hamas operative without any civilian loss of life, the death of another dozen Pakistani farmers during an attempt to take out some midlevel Taliban functionary will only draw a faint hiccup of concern from Islamabad, one which might have had been reported by the Western press back when this was Bush's dumb war, but will be entirely ignored now that it is the centerpiece of Obama's new smart war.


Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 03:33:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Would there be any serious problem with inviting the authors of quality diaries on relevant topics worthy of discussion to cross post here?  I know several here Kos readers, and if nobody else has an account I could do the inviting.
by Zwackus on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 10:52:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No problem. Dkos posters have often been invited (often by Jerome, but not only) to crosspost here.  
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 02:44:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
how dare europe not endorse and return to corpo-fascism at home and illegal invasions abroad?

the very nerve!

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 09:31:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
With more than 50% of govt spending being lavished on the military, it's hard to see how they can continue. But I don't believe there is a single politician of influence who is prepared to stand up and say that the US must begin to reduce the amount of money they spend on the military. If we thought the healthcare lobbying was bad, just imagine how many tens of thousands of lobbyists in DC depend on military spending.

It's the nearest the US gets to welfare, but as it's america, it's corporate welfare. so many companies getting loaded on the taxpayers dollar. The money just pours into their hands, it would be rude to refuse it. You turn that tap off, even slowly, and large parts of america would choke.

So they'll keep spending on the military, even as the domestic population starves. You'll see people joining up to eat. To justify it they'll keep finding ways to have their foreign wars, "cos the world's out to get them".

and europe's hypnotised fools will continue to applaud and join in. Because America will keep us safe from the people who want america to stop bombing them. and so the dance continues until the oil runs out and then we all realise that maybe we should have been doing something more sensible.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:17:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that some things have changed about military spending. As long as the defined enemy was industrialized nation states, then a good bit of military spending went into sophisticated R&D that had some useful non-military applications and contributed to the maintainence  of a technologically skilled work force. The present neo-colonial wars aren't accomplishing much along those lines. They just eat up money.
by Richard Lyon (rllyon@gmail.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:29:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I dunno. Drone technology has come on in leaps and bounds. Battlefield comms gets a big kick start.

But given that most of it is secret I don't see it feeding into anything. At least during the 60s you had tons of stuff in the space race so there was cross fertilization. Now it's just wasted.

so there's no real export. After all, anyone who the US deems worthy of getting fighters (eg Israel) gets 'em free anyway. American engineering doesn't exist anymore. It's partly why British industry crashed was the only part of it the govt cared about was military and it just isn't that big a money spinner for the economy.

Anglo america is fixated on military power, and our economies are tanking as a result.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:36:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you make drones big enough, can you turn them into flying cars?
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 03:15:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Israeli one just launched is the same size as a 747.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 03:25:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In case you missed the discussion, the American system is called inverted totalitarianism.

A bomb, H bomb, Minuteman / The names get more attractive / The decisions are made by NATO / The press call it British opinion -- The Three Johns
by Alexander on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:34:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't believe there is a single politician of influence who is prepared to stand up and say that the US must begin to reduce the amount of money they spend on the military.

There is Ron Paul. You can quibble about his influence but he could be a factor in 2010 and 2012. The problem with Ron Paul, as TBG noted, is that he believes in what he is doing and acts out of principle, however much we might disagree with some of his principles.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 09:45:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We could always go back to the Brussels Treaty of 1948 ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 03:09:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or Treaty of Brussels - to avoid pning.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 03:11:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Never heard of the "Or Treaty of Brussels."

Regulated the length, width, and depth of rowboats, did they?

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 04:29:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rowlocks to you, sir ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 11:26:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
current discussions over the NATO's future, new spat with Russia over the European missile defense arrived timely for Iran, diminishing prospects for new sanctions.

the need for clarity in regard the nature of NATO and its future Russian policy is still there. As some here noted the main justification for NATO is Russian threat. The policy towards Russia is reduced to the list of ultimative demands.

I have no doubt that Russia will reject such demands. So probably Washington is making mistake here antagonizing Russia needlessly and they will not get support from China neither.  

by FarEasterner (avdavydov@yandex.ru) on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 02:59:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC - Adam Curtis Blog

It is astonishing that everything about the credit crisis is still discussed in the technical terms of economics. Although, as most commentators agree, almost all economists failed to predict the financial crisis that swept through the western economies in 2008 - we still slavishly discuss and analyse it in their technical terms.

Whether it is straight journalism, or columnists' rants, or even imaginative responses like the play Enron, the problem is described either as a technical system that went wrong or as a set of strange inventions that were then corruptly used by bad and greedy people. And in doing this all the journalists, and the critics, and the playwrights earnestly try and explain to us the system in the terms, and the framework of "market-speak" created by the economists and the financiers.



If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 12:05:21 PM EST
thanks for the constant curtis feed, ceebs.

our best documentarian, imo.

i just heard a beautiful lapsus in the bernanke hearings. some representative was saying the words 'federal budget deficit', and it came out as 'fudge-it deficit', LOL.

i'm surprised they weren't rolling in the aisles...

ben's voice is shaking as he agrees that american taxes are going to have to go up 60%.

i expect he's getting well paid, but what kind of money would induce anyone to take his job?

he looks like someone too far out on some very thin ice, and it's creaking below him.

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 01:08:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
More from Curtis:

When the neoliberal project first began in 1979 with Mrs Thatcher the idea was that politicians would give away power to the markets and the state would shrink. Over the past 15 years the idea of the "market" has been extended to practically every area of society - education, health, even the arts. But to make this happen those running the neoliberal project had to enforce it by creating vast and intricate performance indicators and feedback systems (which in many cases led to wide scale absurdities). And to do this they used the mighty power of the state.

The crucial thing is that these systems had practically nothing to do with the original idea of the "market". They are actually a strange pseudo-scientific piece of planning engineered by politicians and groups of technocrats that borrowed far more from cold-war ideas of feedback engineering and cybernetics than from the risky roller coaster of the market. And to create the systems they had to greatly enlarge the state and the extent of its power, which is the very opposite of the vision of a free-market utopia.

And when you examine the roots of the neoliberal idea of the market it gets odder still. The ideas that rose up in the post-war years that captured the imagination of people like Mrs Thatcher are actually a very strange mutation of capitalism. If you listen to interviews with Friedrich Hayek he talks far more like a cold war systems engineer discussing information signals and feedback than Adam Smith with his theories of Moral Sentiment.

While the roots of the technical systems that the banks created to manage risk also lie back in the cybernetic dreams of the 1950s and 60s.  Dreams not of progress through the dynamism of markets - but of using computers to create a balanced, almost frozen world. - just like in the Cold War.

Which raises the question - have we misunderstood what we have lived through since 1979?


We know something of how this project was conceived in the USA--Shock Doctrine, etc., but few are seriously concerned with how Ronald Reagan conceived of the project. It is different with Thatcher. It would be most interesting to understand just how she understood what she was doing. She certainly seemed very sure of herself. That at least she shared with Ronnie.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:13:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
CS Monitor: Dubai adds 15 more suspects to investigation

Dubai said on Wednesday that it has 15 more suspects in the January assassination of senior Hamas figure Mahmoud al-Mabhouh. Authorities there have alleged his murder was part of an international plot using fake passports and identities stolen from a number of European nationals and coordinated by the Mossad, Israel's intelligence agency.

Israel has refused to confirm or deny Mossad involvement and Dubai has not yet provided evidence to back up its claim.

A member of Hamas has also been detained in Syria in connection with the assassination Israeli media reported, citing a website tied to Fatah, Hamas' principal Palestinian rival.

Wednesday's news took the total number of suspects in Mr. Mahbouh's murder to 26.

 Magnifico Alert 

At this rate, pretty soon Dubai is going to claim every Westerner in Dubai during the time and 48 hours post and prior are part of the 'conspiracy' while blaming Israel without providing evidence. Of course then, who else would an Arab nation blame? I suppose there always is the USA, but that would be bad for Dubai's business. Of course, it couldn't be possible that Mabhouh may have other enemies. I'm certain black market international arms dealers, for example, are honorable and noble chaps that wouldn't stoop to murder for a deal gone sour.

by Magnifico on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 12:52:32 PM EST
If Dubai was just worried about the effect on business of unsolved murders, they could have stuck with the original story of a natural death.

And while another political motive may be possible, it's hard to see a black market arms dealer going to the trouble of stealing the identities of so many people in Israel to travel on.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 01:06:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And Mossad would steal the identities of so many people in Israel because they wanted to point the blame back at Israel?

I'd like to have see any evidence against Israel instead of conjecture, before assigning responsibility. Yes, Israel is a likely suspect, but without evidence it's just CT.

by Magnifico on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 01:44:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mossad did not expect they would be identified. Presumably they used Israelis because (a) it was easy (they were passing through the airport and (b) safer. They would know if these people left Israel and so would be able to avoid the risk of two versions of the same person showing up in the same country at the same time.

I had doubts like you, but it the process of replying to you I suddenly became convinced that it had to be Israel (perhaps with help from other European countries). The point is that if someone had carefully arranged things to frame Israel, they would almost certainly have made it look like a murder. I find it almost impossible to imagine somebody making these intricate arrangements to pin the blame on Israel, only to see it all wasted because the Dubai authorities didn't realize that he had been murdered in the first place.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 01:54:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
While a nice theory, it still is only a theory based on circumstantial evidence and conjecture.
by Magnifico on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 04:09:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As is the case with most such undercover actions. I agree that it's speculation, but so, is, for example, the Hariri killing (for which the evidence published seems much less compelling). I'd be glad to consider convincing alternative theories, other than the one that Dubai was involved (in which case there's no reason to believe any of the facts we hear....)
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 04:19:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At least 10 Israelis share names of new Dubai hit squad suspects - Haaretz - Israel News

Dubai police also released credit card details of some of the suspects. At least 13 credit cards used to book hotel rooms and pay for air travel were issued by the same small U.S. bank.


Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 04:21:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
R.I.P. RickRoll | Videogum
I know that RickRolling has basically been dead as a meme ever since your mom saw them do it on the local news and tried RickRolling you by sending an email that was purportedly a collection of funny photos of animals eating birthday cake but ended up just being the lyrics to "It Would Take A Strong Strong Man," and then at the end she wrote, "am I doing this right? Call me if you get this so I know that you got it. Lots of Love. Mommy." But now it is OFFICIALLY over. From Mashable:


If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 12:58:55 PM EST
Why did I get a cheesy pop song when I clicked on this?

Never Gonna Give You Up? What..?

<oh. ceebs. it's dawning on me. you... this is so unexpected. be still my heart.>

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 01:06:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A cartoon for those that love their iPhone too much

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:02:41 PM EST
breaking news. toe bone connected to the foot bone / foot bone connected to the ankle bone/ ankle bone connected ...

DR. GABOR MATÉ: You know, the traditional medicines of China for 3,000 years, the ayurvedic medicine of India, and the tribal shamanic medicines of all cultures around the world have always taken for granted that mind and body can't be separated. Now, Western medicine has cleaved the two apart for, really, 2,000 years. Socrates already criticized the doctors of his day for separating the mind from the body. And the irony--in fact, the tragedy--is that now we have the Western science that shows, incontrovertibly and in great detail, that mind and body can't be separated, and so that any attempt to do so leaves the medical practitioner short of many tools to help clients. And, of course, it leaves patients short of what they need for their own healing.

The point now is that the emotional centers of the brain, which regulate our behaviors and our responses and our reactions, are physiologically connected with--and we know exactly how they're connected--with the immune system, the nervous system and the hormonal apparatus. In fact, it's no longer possible, scientifically, to speak of these as separate systems, as if immunity was separate from emotions, as if the nervous system was separate from the hormonal apparatus. There's one system, and they're wired together by the nervous system itself and joined together by chemical messengers that they all secrete, and so that whatever happens emotionally has an impact immunologically, and vice versa. So, for example, we know now that the white cells in the circulation of our--of the blood can manufacture every hormone that the brain can manufacture, and vice versa, so that the brain and the immune system are always talking to one another.

So, in short, we have one system. The science that studies it is called psychoneuroimmunology. And scientifically, it's not even controversial, but it's completely lacking from medical practice.

Read more...



Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:13:56 PM EST
[ NEOLOGIGISM ALERT]

The science that studies it [human physiology and anatomy] is called psychoneuroimmunology.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:15:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why do you call PNI neologism. or better how long is a word a neologism. I mean PNI has been used now for approx. 30 years - so is still neologism?
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 04:16:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think so. A neologism is merely another name for a thing named. I'm sure DrMarketTrustee would agree. He loved to entertain himself by inventing syndrome labels for random groups of symptoms. Cracked himself up... srsly.

A medical neologism today typically expresses the "revealed word" of a specialist --some jargon that describe his or her incremental buy limited --rather than integral-- comprehension of physiological processes (chemistry) or systemic regulation attributable to anatomical functions (esp. organs, e.g. brain). Maté's interview, I think, advocates for comprehensive knowledge of the body and care of it. I know I have reminded many times in the innerboobs, the body is permeable.

So. Look at it.

"psychoneuroimmunology": study of psychology, nervous and lymphatic systems. I should hope medical schools are still instructing students in these subjects before releasing them to sit for a licensing exam.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 05:40:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for your answer - but now I think I do not understand what neologism means - you seem to use it differently than it is described in the wiki, where I looked it up and now also found the answer to my question about time.

Neologism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A neologism (pronounced niˈɒlədʒɪzəm); from Greek νέος (neos 'new') + λόγος (logos 'word') is a newly coined word that may be in the process of entering common use, but has not yet been accepted into mainstream language.

When a word or phrase is no longer "new", it is no longer a neologism. Neologisms may take decades to become "old", however. Opinions differ on exactly how old a word must be to cease being considered a neologism.

In psychiatry, the term neologism is used to describe the use of words that only have meaning to the person who uses them, independent of their common meaning.

Well, anyway I learned a new word. :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 10:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, anyway I learned a new word.

BWAH! The Vocabulary she grows, grows, grows...
or shrinks, depending on who one hangs out with.

omg. OMG! There are 11 systems, how many organs? How many cells? I dunno.

The functions of organ systems often share significant overlap. For instance, the nervous and endocrine system both operate via a shared organ, the hypothalamus. For this reason, the two systems are combined and studied as the neuroendocrine system.

Permutations-Gone-Wild!! Possibly 285,311,670,611 new words acoming... but I like...

neuroendovasculamusculoskeletalimmunology.

How's that? Does it make my butt look too big?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 08:00:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Only macrocallipygology can estimate that.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 08:14:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Indo-European root? Please.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 10:27:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's indoeuropean. It's greek for "the study of nice big butts".

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 10:33:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Go away.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 10:49:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's it, shoot the messenger.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 10:58:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think her original question falls more under the purview of Pygographimetry, though.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 11:04:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 11:31:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What you need is more assertivity <ching * new word>

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 08:24:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Give it to me in Latin (vulgate), and we can do some bidness.

Yeah. I could, quite possibly, be able to work it into a 60,000 word working paper with charts.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 10:27:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
'Assertivity' is part of most of the leadership spiels I've heard over the years. It is also a temporary result of coke use. I'm not saying they are connected, though.

Assertivity and cooperation often don't work well if mixed. There's an argument to be made that the US culture focus on the individual and the Dream (and thus assertivity) makes cooperation a nasty word - like eg morphing it into socialism.

Is US American culture uncooperative by nature? There is a lot of circumstantial evidence.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 12:13:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
re: leadership spiels

hmm. It is possible I might benefit from more of these. Some years ago, I was required to sit for a seminar led by Jay Conger. I do not remember mention of this concept assertivity. I do remember having to write "I am not a leader." Got honors for that. And that was that.

re: Is US American culture uncooperative by nature?

If culture is the artifact of ideology, and ideology is a logical structure, then I would suppose heavy metal poisoning is the leading cause of uncooperative relations among US citizens.

And that's only a guess.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 01:23:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cat:

heavy metal poisoning is the leading cause of uncooperative relations among US citizens.

And that's only a guess.

stone truth...

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 01:29:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This doesn't impress those of us who have lived in Germany, home of the Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 08:35:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
wtf?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 10:25:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Wikipedia:
This is the official short title of the law; its full name is Gesetz zur Übertragung der Aufgaben für die Überwachung der Rinderkennzeichnung und Rindfleischetikettierung, corresponding to Law on delegation of duties for supervision of cattle marking and beef labeling. Most German laws have a short title consisting of a composite noun.

Words as long as this are nowhere near common in German. When the law was proposed in the state parliament, the members reacted with laughter and the responsible minister Till Backhaus apologized for the "possibly excessive length."

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 10:35:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ok. See. The meaning isn't important. Time is the issue. Perfect candidate for a NUMBER. That's what I'm talking about.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 10:48:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The separation was largely for religious reasons, notably. People still demand it. They don't want to be animals, they want to be special.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:17:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"People" want to be relieved of pain. There's nothing special about that, true.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:19:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i wonder what 'unspecial' qualities people see in animals.

value of special determined by alpha predator.

you aren't what you eat.

you're much, much more special, munch munch...

no wonder people seem mostly split apart in some internal way.

perhaps PNI is the art of re-union.

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 06:45:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If we could talk to the animals learn all their languages
Maybe take an animal degree
I'd study elephant and eagle buffalo and beagle
Alligator guinea pig and flea!

What a neat achievement that would be.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 08:18:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
While traveling I was fascinated with how my body's health improved as my mental health and mood improved, even as other aspects of my daily life were less healthy than at home - inconsistent diet and excessive alcohol intake, in particular.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
hmm. Attitude is multivalent behavior.

DR. GABOR MATÉ: n other words, another fact that's important is our relationship with other people. And the Los Angeles UCLA psychiatrist, Dr. Daniel Siegel, has coined a phrase "interpersonal neurobiology," to indicate that our biology of our brains, but indeed of our whole bodies, is in interaction with our personal relationships. So how we express ourselves in those relationships, or how we suppress ourselves, has a lot to do with our health.

[NEOLOGISM ALERT]
interpersonal neurobiology for psychology: further on, Maté describes pathology of repression and hysteria. But Freudian analysis is satan. m'K, a misogynist poseur, hack, loser. Wait. Maté must be a mole trained at a chimp scola...

Well, when I looked at the kind of people that would be coming under my care in palliative care, but also the kind of people who would get sick when I was in family practice, a number of salient characteristics presented themselves. One was the repression of anger. People didn't know how to express negative emotion. They were afraid to do so or did not know when they were angry. People who were pleasers, they tried to always not to disappoint other people. They never knew how to say no. They took on everything without a murmur, because they saw their role as always being the caregivers and the caretakers. And they had an exceedingly powerful sense of duty, role and responsibility.

Take care, MillMan, to cleanse your spirits regularly. This ain't no disco.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 03:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I cleanse my spirits on the dance floor.

mushrooms:

everythings, like, interconnected, man.


you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 03:59:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Where is kcurie when you need him?

Well Cat, you know I'm going to give this comment a big fat 4 on the lips.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 03:19:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What offshore wind sometimes entails (Beatrice REpower 5M turbines, Scotland.)

Don't turn the sound up, the wind gets harsh.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:23:35 PM EST
I guess if you're the sort of person that likes climbing and is used to those rope gadgets, I'm sure it's a fabulous job. But I'm convinced that was probably a good day. Being out on those in rain and cold would not be the most fun in the world. A young person's game I feel.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 02:31:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A complete idiot's game, I feel

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 03:21:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
-ing propeller huggers.
by njh on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 10:11:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For anyone who wants to know how the US political game is played:

The Democratic Party's deceitful game by Glen Greenwald is required reading.

Teaser quote:

This is what the Democratic Party does; it's who they are.  They're willing to feign support for anything their voters want just as long as there's no chance that they can pass it.  They won control of Congress in the 2006 midterm elections by pretending they wanted to compel an end to the Iraq War and Bush surveillance and interrogation abuses because they knew they would not actually do so; and indeed, once they were given the majority, the Democratic-controlled Congress continued to fund the war without conditions, to legalize Bush's eavesdropping program, and to do nothing to stop Bush's habeas and interrogation abuses ("Gosh, what can we do?  We just don't have 60 votes).

I'm willing to bet this is also how the game is played o'er the pond as well.  

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 03:01:51 PM EST
I read it earlier and I wasn't convinced. It seemed ot me like he was observing behaviour and then working out what motivation he would need in order to do the same thing. Although it's a common fallacy people make, you shouldn't project yourself onto others, even people you despise believe themselves to be doing the right thing.

to me, that's the trick greenwald missed. He never really got under the skin of why they do it.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 03:38:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem here I think is that the number of alternative explanations is limited: if they're not acting from cynicism, they're simply craven.

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 04:08:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good ol' Occam's razor, heh?

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 04:22:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yup.

And there are some days I wish he'd invented a guillotine.

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 04:03:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The thing about elites is the high value they place on the system that brought them into elite-hood.  After all, since the system allowed and fostered the incredible 'them' to positions of high power, rank, and status the system must be beyond reproach.

No one could have predicted
by ATinNM on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 04:24:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think if there is any major reason, this is more likely to be it than any Greenwald surmised. I admire Greenwald a lot and his knowledge of constitutional law is possibly unequalled in the blogos, but here his exasperation got the better of him.

Politicians are not just beneficiaries of the system, their worldview is conditioned by it and it's very hard for them to go against the grain. They need to collect money for re-election, hundreds and thousands of dollars, which is not chump change. Collecting money is a 24/7 obsession for them and so courting rich powerful interests who will make that collecting of vast sums of money easier is a part of the game. Equally, upsetting people, people who might be prepared to pony up money is not part of the ball game.

so going off piste with strange ideas about changing the system, removing money (which is how vested interests buy influence) from the game, prmoting environmentalism, introducing justice, promoting peace. these are "unpopular", ie potentially impoverishing, ideas. you'd have to be pretty sure of your financial sources and your popularity to run against that.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 04:49:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What I found most apt is the process Greenwald described, not the motivation he ascribes.  

We're slowing moving from anger to frustration-induced rage here in the States.  The Tea-Baggers are the best known, because they can be easily 'captured' by the current Ruling Class IMHO so they get the most press, but it's happening across the political spectrum.  Obama may have THOUGHT he was campaigning on minor tweaks around the edges of the US political system; people HEARD he was going to over over-haul the system or at least try.

Instead we got Mr. "Float like Bee, Sting like a Butterfly."

As the Head, so the Body.

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 05:06:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ATinNM:
the system must be beyond reproach.

...and anyone questioning it too forcefully be bludgeoned, bribed or drugged into compliance.

the precious middle class whose loss we so bemoan, as it gave us life, is also the buffer and servant for the ones who believe any means dandy to maintain the ends of no-change.

joe says it best:

Joe Bageant: Round Midnight

Enter the reign of the bourgeoisie, self appointed and self-interested middlemen to anything and everything. The sheer complexity of the industrial revolution and associated finance was a dog that could fatten many fleas.

When the bourgeoisie did not get what it felt was a good cut of the action from the monarchies, it raised hell, sometimes enough to cause revolutions. If they won, as they did in America, they took credit for establishing democracy. If they lost, they fobbed it off as a "people's revolution," leaving the working slobs, the actual producers of wealth, to face the king's hangmen.

Even when "the people" occasionally win one of those "people's revolutions", we never really win. Not in the end. For instance, here in Mexico, contrary to what we've seen in Zapata movies, there has never been a successful people's revolution in terms of lasting and real egalitarian reform. Just armed struggle, and many promises of reform, always to be abandoned after the revolution. They were subsequently wiped out by the politically potent urban middle class, in league with traditional elites, such as the haciendados and corporatists. The bourgeoisie never gives up its profitable connections to the elites. Same as in America. The bourgeoisie lives at the pleasure of the elites.

this causes another huge split in our (social) consciousness, these mixed feelings about class sympathetic resonance and identification.

contradictions that turn cognition inside out!

religion, philosophy, and now PNI emphasise one-mindedness to try and focus in on what is sure and holistic in life, but this has been fragmented to a degree that seems beyond recall or remedy, in our 'first world'.

such a huge hat, we needz a mighty wabbit!

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 07:06:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Joe Bageant quote is a good 'un.  For some reason I started parsing it as a poem:

Enter the reign of the
bourgeoisie,
self appointed and self-interested middlemen
to anything and
everything.
The sheer complexity
of the industrial revolution
and associated finance
was a dog that could fatten
many fleas.

I can only plead I'm spaced-out due to fighting off a cold.  The issue is in doubt.  Odds are 6:5 and pick 'em.

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 08:48:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
good one, no excuses needed!

sign of good art, it's ability to sprout shoots.

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 04:27:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Excellent pin down.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Sun Mar 7th, 2010 at 11:41:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ET has been really lively of late, with three recent diaries break the 100 comments level, and only one of them approaching flame-war status.

Yay ET!

by Zwackus on Wed Feb 24th, 2010 at 11:06:33 PM EST
yay indeed.

a couple of months ago i wondered if new diaries were an endangered species!

now the joint is jumpin'.

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 04:29:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One of them is already way above 200 comments and a second should clear it anytime now.

As afew pointed out above, we're just discussing innocuous subjects such as NATO, HSR or the Euro...

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 04:33:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We just need a diary on Eurabia and we're set.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 25th, 2010 at 04:56:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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