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March 8 Open Thread

by Jerome a Paris Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 11:16:04 AM EST


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It's definitely better than the alternative

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 11:21:26 AM EST
Daily mail comment of the day, in response to an article on the Venables/Bulger case
We should have hung them when they were ten, killing children is wrong...


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 11:26:40 AM EST
They may have been 10, but they were not children, thwy were demons. Or something.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 11:36:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't get it.

Daily Mail:Straw under fire as he AGAIN rejects Bulger family's pleas to reveal more about killer's 'sex crime'

James Bulger's distraught mother, speaking today, says she has been 'all over the place' since it emerged one of her son's killers is back in jail.

In her first TV interview since the sensational move, Denise Fergus told of her desperation to know why he is in jail and said it was keeping her awake at night.

'I have been very emotional. My head has been all over the place. I don't know what he has done. I don't know whether he has gone on to kill someone else,' she told This Morning.

'I have had sleepless nights and I am not eating again - I have had to pull my kids out of school. It is just one massive rollercoaster again for me. And I can't believe that they are putting me through this.'

This poor woman needs PTSD treatment, but why should that mean that she has any right to know the details of this other case?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 11:40:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because there is a moral and ethical breakdown amongst the editors of major daily newspapers.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 11:47:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
when i heard her on the radio the thought crossed my mind "thank goodness that the administration of justice is not in the hands of the victims". Then I remembered it was in the hands of Jack Straw instead and shuddred.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 01:04:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Janet Tavakoli: Washington Must Ban U.S. Credit Derivatives as Traders Demand Gold

Congress should act immediately to abolish credit default swaps on the United States, because these derivatives will foment distortions in global currencies and gold. Failure to act now will only mean the U.S. will be forced to act after these "financial weapons of mass destruction" levy heavy casualties. These obligations now settle in euros, but the end game is to settle them in gold. This is so ripe for speculative manipulation that you might as well cover the U.S. map with a bull's-eye.

Credit default swaps are not insurance. If you buy fire insurance on your home, you must own the house. If you buy credit protection on the United States, however, you do not need to own U.S. Treasury bonds. If your protection gains value after you buy it -- not because the U.S. defaults, but because of market mood changes -- you can resell that protection and make a profit.

Lower credit risk means a lower price for protection. Zero implies zero risk. The higher the basis points, the higher the implied risk. When U.S. credit default swaps were first introduced, the price of protection was around two basis points. According to Bloomberg, the price for five-year protection was around 38 basis points on Friday. But the price in the over-the-counter market -- where this stuff actually trades -- was almost double or around 75 basis points.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 11:27:11 AM EST
Oh, wait.

So now that CDS have caused a major crisis in the Eurozone, they are going to ban CDS on US sovereign credit only?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 11:32:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC - BBC Comedy Blog: Tangerinegate... by Robert Popper
Last Monday I decided to do one of my silly and - admittedly - childish phone calls under the guise of my Timewaster Letters character, Robin Cooper.

So I switched on LBC (a London talk radio station) where the topic was Gordon Brown's alleged bad temper. I called up and got through almost instantly. "What do you want to talk about?" asked the LBC operator. Without time to think I replied, "Gordon Brown visited my place of work and lost his temper right in front of me". Very soon I was on air, explaining how Gordon Brown had toured my workshop - a 'lamination factory' - and thrown a tangerine into one of the machines, breaking it, before calling a member of staff a 'citric idiot'.  It was all I could think of at the time. A load of nonsense. But I was quite proud of the phrase, 'citric idiot'.

Anyway, skip forward to Friday night. It's midnight. I'm lying in bed, when I get a message on twitter that the tangerine story had been mentioned on BBC Two's The Bubble. I clicked on iPlayer and fourteen minutes in, I see the brilliant David Mitchell telling his guests that Gordon Brown had allegedly thrown a tangerine into a lamination machine.  

What?!

I immediately stuck my phone call up on my site (I'd animated it with my crap drawings), mentioning how it had been picked up on The Bubble. Very soon someone tweeted saying that they'd read about the tangerine incident in the Financial Times. And there was a link! Within seconds, someone else added that it had been in The Telegraph, with the headline: "Gordon Brown accused of throwing a tangerine". The article went on to say, "One of the factory workers told The Sun Mr Brown became angry and threw a tangerine he was holding into a laminating machine".


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 11:34:00 AM EST
How do the qualia of boys, girls and bugs compare to each other?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 11:42:48 AM EST
I felt his questioning was more existential than essential. "What's it like being..?" The subjective experience.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 12:39:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was once speaking about being TS to a group of schoolkids and one of them asked me how my sexual experience might compare with a natural born female's. I responded by asking her to describe how it was for her so that I might compare.

he he

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 01:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Precisely.
"Qualia" (pronounced ˈkwɑːliə or pronounced ˈkweɪliə), singular "quale" (pronounced ˈkwɑːleɪ, roughly KWAH-leh), from a Latin word meaning for "what sort" or "what kind," is a term used in philosophy to describe the subjective quality of conscious experience. Examples of qualia are the pain of a headache, the taste of wine, or the redness of an evening sky. Daniel Dennett writes that qualia is "an unfamiliar term for something that could not be more familiar to each of us: the ways things seem to us."


En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 02:05:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I (mis)understood the term as concerning essence, but it's clearly more interesting than that.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 04:00:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I once read a characterisation of qualia along the lines of "the question is not what it is like to be a bat, but what it is like for the bat to be a bat".

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 04:08:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Interesting" in the way that metaphysics is interesting. Because it is very hard to communicate, operationaly the idea of "qualia" boils down to the impossibility of actually "putting yourself in someone else's shoes" if that someone else is very different from you (and not necessarily so different as a bat from a human).

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 05:43:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 12:12:24 PM EST
you'll miss it when it's gone.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 01:00:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No snow but very cold and icy here again, even with full sunshine today.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 01:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
On Saturday I saw a gas station outside Lyon offering free (or reduced; I'm not sure) car washes for women on Mar 8....
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 01:05:18 PM EST
I've got a question that I thought might find an answer here.

What is a reasonable per MW estimate of cost to install and operate wind turbines?

The fun of reading through Spanish government records on electric production for a paper that I'm researching made me think that it would be interesting to see how the US compares.

It's interesting, because you can see real differences in the way that different states generate and use electricity.

For example, several states get most of their electricity from nuclear, and some of the biggest coal states have outsized industrial consumption of electricity.

With the new wind power potential estimates, I thought that it would be good to do a diary about the potential and cost of moving away from fossil fuels (natural gas and coal) and towards wind power.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 01:33:09 PM EST
The Story.  Not only did he get his ass kicked he for sure will not be snuggling tonite.

Hey, check this out.  I have a small original Conrad Kiesel oil on wood (German, famous for nymphs, still reprinted today) which I have been recently trying to get appraised and one of the folks I showed it to said the image was not so "commercial" because of the frown on the older ladies face as she looks disaprovingly at the younger lady whose gown has slipped.  Let's set if I remember the code for the image.  Here is the picture which the parser makes smaller.  Hard to see the expressions.  but click on the image and it is a little bigger.

My son saw the picture which I got from my father and he said "hey, Grandpa's porn!" Funny.

alohapolitics.com

by Keone Michaels on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 03:21:02 PM EST
Looking at Art Net can provide a list of dealers who have, at least, some knowledge of the artist.  Who could give you a ballpark on the worth.

The big auction houses will give you an estimate of the paintings worth, their fee is 10% of the estimated worth.  The big auction houses set the price level for the Art Market so their estimate is usually pretty good.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 03:41:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks.  Art Net wants money for listings of past sales, but I did find out that either Christies or Sotheby's New York got $150,000 for one of his bigger more famous pieces in 2005.  I guess I should just send them each a scan.  It needs cleaning. And I will have to look thru may father's things to see if there is any provenance.

On the other hand, a dealer who specializes in Kiesel told me it was worth only around $1000 in the present market.  He doesn't put the prices he asks on the web.

Thanks for the advice.

alohapolitics.com

by Keone Michaels on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 03:58:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
http://www.newsneconomics.com/2008/06/about-nontuths.html

Yesterday I argued that Latvia's cost-cutting efforts are evident compared to a cross-section of European Union countries. Latvia's efforts, while commendable, were very much a function of the emergency IMF loan in December 2008 and the ensuing recession in 2009.

After an email exchange with Marshall Auerback, and thinking more about the cross-section of Europe, I now see a very scary trend emerging across Europe: the fight for exports.

...

Latvia's model: drop wages to increase export income. Greece: drop wages to increase export income. France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, etc., etc. It's impossible that the whole of the Eurozone will drop wages to increase export income. It's especially bad for countries like Latvia or Hungary, where the lion's-share of trade occurs withing the boundaries of Europe.

And what happens when export income does not provide the impetus for aggregate demand growth? Well, there's not much left. Can't devalue the currency (via printing money), and tax revenues will fall faster than a ten-pound weight: rising deficits; rising debt; rising debt service (via surging credit spreads). Sovereign default seems like a near-certainty somewhere in the Eurozone!

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 03:25:57 PM EST
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 03:26:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmmm.......  

So the problem is that labor is too expensive, ergo those lazy bums that work on the line want to much money!  It's envy I tell you.

And of course, it's absolutely not the case that the problem is that this fixation on cheap labor has stopped capital investments that could increase productivity.

That we ask them to make bricks without hay only shows that they are lazy, and undeserving of the bread and water we give them.  Of course, it's not that we are causing the problem because we're trying to pump up our profits by asking workers the impossible.  Because that would suggest that we are engaging in precisely the type of socially harmful rent-seeking behavior that we say that workers asking for a raise are doing.  If this were true, our wealth would only come at a cost to society as a whole.

But, no.  We are the innovators!  If we go on strike, civilization collapses. We are the creators of value.  (Note to self, must invent robot slaves.)

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 04:03:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why are low wages considered incentives for the poor, but not for the rich ? Am I missing something ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 04:10:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A damned good question, but we both damned well know the answer.

Do as I say, not as a do.  The oldest rule in the book for people who want to stay in power when they can't get their shit together, let alone everyone elses.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 04:22:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Adam Smith has a pithy section on that. In brief, Smith's thesis is that the conditions that encourage low wages also encourage docile and servile workers. Which enhances the boss' power, though not necessarily his revenue. Bosses being the ones who make pronouncements on the state of business... well, you do the math.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 05:52:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Did someone mention robot slaves?



you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 04:34:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hee heee

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 04:41:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Precisely!

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 04:48:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What would a eurozone-wide sovereign default look like?
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 04:45:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Gory. 80 million German heads would explode.

More seriously, it depends very much on how targeted it is. If you simply walk away from all sovereign bonds and let the chips fall where they may, then there's a realistic possibility that you'll break the global monetary system. And even if you don't, the hysterical children on the capital markets almost certainly would.

A more targeted default... that's a different kettle of fish, and depends very much on how you do it, how you justify it and how many of the hysterical children you manage to put out of business in the first blow.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 05:58:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
JakeS:
there's a realistic possibility that you'll break the global monetary system.

Again.

How can you break something that already belongs in an asylum? I suppose you could have an extended period of Extreme Bad while something better had the chance to organise itself.

But I still think controlled demolition followed by a rewrite of the rules is the best way to avoid future crises.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 07:06:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Without that extreme bad theres no incentive to do any better at all.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Mar 9th, 2010 at 06:51:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not "break the monetary system" as in "causing a prolonged depression."

I meant "break the monetary system" as in "causing wheat to not be shipped from Ukraine because the seller doesn't trust the buyer's escrow service."

Having the largest (and arguably most trusted) GDP on the planet simply walk away from its sovereign debt overnight is not "controlled" in any version of the English language with which my thesaurus is familiar.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 06:26:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's why, to answer nanne's original question, "an Eurozone sovereign default" is more likely to "look like" internal Euro inflation and external Euro devaluation.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 06:34:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That would not be easy on the countries who have debt denominated in other currencies.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 06:51:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It depends on whether you understand "broken" as "not working as advertised" or "not working at all".

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 06:35:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or how optimistic you are about the overall stability of the system.

People still seem to think the system is not just workable, but almost the best of all possible worlds - even though it explodes regularly, with increasing oscillations.

I think that's quite an unusual point of view.

Wheat continues to be shipped from the Ukraine for the moment, but that's not a consolation if you're one of the long term unemployed in the US, or about to become one of the long term unemployed in Greece.

Politics aside, the most pressing criticism of the system is that it simply doesn't work for many people, and is close to not working for anyone.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 07:02:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't entertain any illusions as to the stability of the current system, under the current management.

However, as much as the "nuke and pave" solution appeals to the part of my brain that's schooled in engineering, there is an appalling number of things that could go Seriously Wrong with that strategy.

And if you're in a political position to prevent disastrous fallout, you are also in a position to engineer a new system without having to nuke and pave.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Mar 15th, 2010 at 07:41:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/3/8/844165/-Offshore-wind-farm-constructionmore-pictures

A repeat of my most recent wind photodiary (which is also front-paged on The Oil Drum today). For some reason I can't be bothered to post much on dKos these days. US politics seem stuck in confusion lately and there is isn't much to write about.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 05:25:41 PM EST
Most US Progressives are either running around trying to support the unsupportable - IMNSHO - or are seeking and finding alternatives to the SOP of internal Democratic Party politics.

People really thought voting for and electing Obama meant Change.  ("The more fools they," he said cynically.)  There is no doubt Obama is better than Bush and was better than McCain.  There is no doubt, in my mind, Obama has shown himself a Tweak Around the Edges Centerist who is unable to accomplish or ignorant of what needs to be done to get the US out of the mess.

The key to change is the 2010 Senate races.  Unfortunately I don't see any substantial change in the way Democratic candidates are selected, thus, the way their campaigns are run.  IF the Dems run the same campaigns they've been running for the last 20 years November could get real ugly.  

The only hope I see is the GOP is in even worse shape.  Palin seems to have been an attempt by the GOP Leadership to rein-in the Looney Right and, by and large, it has seemed to fail.  Huckabee seems to have faded, tho' it's too soon to count him out.  The person who seems to be doing the best out of the mess, and even creating a Left-Right alliance, is: Ron Paul.  

And THAT I don't understand.

 

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 05:52:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ron Paul is superficially appealing on a lot of wedge issues.

On the left, he is (or claims to be) against torture, corporate welfare and colonial wars. Sadly, this puts him well ahead of some congresscritters with D after their names.

On the right, he is in favour of killing social security and medicare stone dead, wants to downsize taxes and appeals to the small-minded small-government fanatics.

But one should be careful not to overestimate his base. They are very vocal, and they - like the the disenfranchised left (such as it is and what there is of it) - are pretty savvy at using grassroot media to their advantage. Furthermore, like the Austrians, Creationists and Teabaggers, they have a cadre of fanatics who are very good at making noise and polluting open fora. That cadre also has the rhetorical advantage of having a rather platonic relationship with empirical reality, which makes it easier for them to produce propaganda than it would be for people in the sanity-based community.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 06:11:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That cadre also has the rhetorical advantage of having a rather platonic relationship with empirical reality...

LOL

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Mon Mar 8th, 2010 at 06:20:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Seeing this (somewhat) from the inside, as part of a progressive organization that has some pretty good contacts in both Sacramento and Washington DC, confusion is a very good way to put it. The underlying context of a loss of faith in the Obama Administration and no real sense of what to turn to as an alternative are just as paralyzing as the sense of confusion you rightly note. In addition there is the growing belief that the right-wing is poised to make a big comeback, and as in 1994 and 2002, there's no confidence in progressives' ability to respond and beat them back.

There are a few efforts starting to get underway to address these problems, as the American netroots starts to understand the predicament and is looking for new economic narratives to use as a building block for a response to both Obama's failure and to the teabaggers.

Unfortunately these efforts are still rooted in American exceptionalism - every time I try to argue for broadening these conversations to include people of like mind around the world, others reject this as either unrealistic or undesirable. There's no way activists in any one country alone can produce the changes we need and make them stick (even in the US, where global wage arbitrage will again be used to undermine our efforts, as was done beginning in the late 1970s), but old habits die hard. I'm not surprised, just annoyed.

And the world will live as one

by Montereyan (robert at calitics dot com) on Tue Mar 9th, 2010 at 02:58:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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