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Systemic Fear, Modern Finance and the Future of Capitalism

by ARGeezer Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 12:21:10 AM EST

Systemic Fear, Modern Finance and the Future of Capitalism  by Shimshon Bichler and Jonathan Nitzan
Jerusalem and Montreal, July 2010

Existing theories of political economy, liberal as well as Marxist, see capital as a dual entity. According to these theories, the "real" essence of capital consists of material/productive commodities, while the "financial" appearance of capital either accurately mirrors or fictitiously distorts this underlying reality. We reject this duality. Capital, we argue, is finance, and only finance. In its modern incarnation, capital exists as forward-looking capitalization, a universal financial ritual that discounts expected future earnings to a singular present value. emphasis added.

The part in bold is the essence of modern finance. And the times when that forward looking principle is violated is fundamental to understanding the present situation.


The universality of this reduction makes capitalization the most supple power instrument ever known to humanity. Previously, distributive power was associated with clear socio-ecological distinctions - differences between king and subject, owner and slave, tiller and landlord, field and citadel, village and town. Capitalization flattens these qualitative features to the point of irrelevance. In principle, anyone can be a capitalist, and what distinguishes one capitalist from another is the quantity of their capitalization: the most powerful are those with the greatest capitalization (dominant capital), and those that hold that power achieve and augment it by increasing their capitalization faster than others (differential accumulation). In this way, capitalization crystallizes the power of capitalists to shape their world, as well as the resistance of those that oppose this power. It gauges the capitalists' success in directing production and consumption, in shaping ideology and culture, in affecting the law, public policy, conflict, war and even the environment. It is the all-encompassing algorithm that creorders - or creates the order - of the capitalist mode of power.

The purpose of our paper is to examine the breakdown of this algorithm. To be sure, this type of inquiry is hardly novel. Marxists have longed searched for objective signs of capitalist collapse, preliminary omens that would foretell the system's imminent disintegration. However, because of their dual conception of capital, they've tended to look for such signs in the so-called real sphere of production and consumption, while paying far less attention to finance, which, in their view, is merely a distorted mirror of that reality. But finance isn't a mirror of real capital; it is real capital - and indeed the only real capital. So if we want to look for signs of systemic crisis and possible disintegration, our search should begin here, in the very ritual of capitalization.

The specific focus of the article is two historical ruptures of modern finance - the periods of 1929-1939 and 2000-2010. During both periods, capitalists abandoned the conventional forward-looking ritual of capitalization, resorting instead to the backward-looking posture of pre-modern finance. In our view, these rare episodes are of great importance for understanding the nature of capitalist confidence and the capitalists' ability to rule - as well as the possibility that this system of rule will collapse. Our inquiry seeks, first, to characterize key features of these episodes; second, to speculate on their causes; and third, to assess, however speculatively, what they might imply for the future of capitalism.

Next the authors set forth some Propositions that are the underlying framework of their analysis:

Propositions

We set the stage with a number of related propositions. These propositions aim to establish a "nested relationship" between a series of entities - beginning from the broad concept of a mode of power, and continuing with confidence in obedience, dominant ideology, the ritual of capitalization and the forward-looking disposition of modern finance. Most of time, the components of this nested relationship are mutually reinforcing. But on rare occasions the relationship implodes. The trigger for such implosion is systemic fear: fearing for the collapse of their system, capitalists lose sight of the future; with the future having become opaque, the ritual of capitalization falls into disarray; with capitalization having been punctured, dominant ideology is deeply shaken; with dominant ideology having cracked, the capitalists' confidence in obedience tumbles; and with no confidence in obedience, the very continuation of the capitalist mode of power is put into question. Let's examine the relationship between these concepts more closely, beginning with power.

  • Modes of power and confidence in obedience. Hierarchical societies, we argue, are characterized by their modes of power. Every mode of power - whether slave-based, feudal or capitalist ­- rests on confidence in obedience: the confidence of rulers in the obedience of their subjects. This confidence is never perfect: the ruled often resist, rise up and revolt; occasionally they demand and periodically achieve moderate change; sometimes they even manage to effect significant reform; and in very rare instances they take over power, though only for a brief historical moment. But as long as the bottom-up disobedience of the underlying population does not significantly undermine the top-down confidence of those who rule them - a breach that seldom happens on a large enough scale - the mode of power itself remains intact.

  • Confidence in obedience and dominant ideology. The framework that shapes and fixates this confidence in obedience is the dominant dogma, or ideology: the broad belief system that propels and restricts the social imagination. The dogma or ideology that dominates a given mode of power conditions action and inaction, justifies the prevailing social structure and provides its organizing principles. It molds rulers and ruled alike - and in so doing locks them both into the same mode of power.

  • Dominant ideology and capitalization. The dominant ideology of modern capitalism revolves around the ritual of capitalization: the financial algorithm that discounts expected future earnings to their present value. This ritual is all pervasive. The capitalist system is denominated in prices, and for the past century or so, the habitual price-setting mechanism has been capitalization. Discounting seems to pervade every thing and every process: it determines the prices of human life and its genomic code; it sets the prices of consumer goods and services, it generates the prices of corporate assets and government debt; it calculates the prices of military operations and humanitarian aid; it is even used to compute the price of our ecological future. The imperatives of capitalization are accepted, internalized and obeyed, usually without question, by the rulers as well as the ruled - and that acceptance makes capitalization central to the dominant ideology of our society.

  • Capitalization and the forward-looking outlook. The ritual of capitalization is feverishly forward looking: it is concerned not with the past or the present, but with the future. The elementary particles of capitalization - earnings, investors' hype, risk perceptions and the normal rate of return - represent not what is known to have happened, but what is expected to happen. The expectations themselves are inherently uncertain and always in flux. But underneath their shifts and turns, one thing remains constant: the conviction that the capitalization process itself will continue to rule and organize humanity, forever.

This latter conviction is necessary for the existence of modern capitalism, at least in its present form, and the easiest way to demonstrate that necessity is to assume it away. Suppose for argument's sake that capitalists, instead of expecting capitalization to continue indefinitely, believed that the process would cease to exist at some future point. At that point, with capitalization gone, their assets would have a nil value, by definition; and with future prices being zero, current prices would have nowhere to trend but down. Now, the fact that capitalists invest shows that they expect the very opposite - i.e., that the value of their assets will grow, not contract - and that expectation means that, consciously or not, they also think that the ritual that valuates their assets will never end.[2]

These propositions lead to two related conclusions. First, they suggest that the very existence of capitalization attests to the capitalist confidence in obedience. The fact that this ritual is so pervasive implies that most people believe it will remain so; and the only way for this ritual to remain pervasive is if capitalists are convinced that they can continue to impose it on a society that is unwilling or unable to oppose it. The second conclusion is that a protracted breach of capitalization - a period during which the ritual breaks down - signifies the loss of confidence in obedience, the potential disintegration of the dominant ideology and, ultimately, a threat to the very existence of the capitalist mode of power. If correct, these conclusions can offer a quantitative insight into the long-term outlook of the ruling capitalist class - and, by extension, into the prospect of systemic change to the capitalist mode of power.

Some may recall an earlier discussion of Systemic Fear and Forward-Looking Finance on ET. In essence, the authors note that, per the tenants of modern finance as set forth by Irving Fisher in and later by Graham and Dodd, investors should not be making investment decisions on the basis of current or recent past market behavior. Investments should be, and usually are, forward looking. After all, the investment decision is based on the present value of a future stream of income, not the present situation. So, why the problem this time?

The authors note that share price and earnings per share have usually fluctuated widely and attribute this to the forward looking nature of the investors. In this paper this is shown in Figure 2, below:

However there are two periods in which share price and earnings per share tracked quite closely: the 1930s and the first decade of the 21st century. In their 2009 article they asserted that during such times as the 1930s and the previous decade capitalists lose confidence in the forward looking nature of investments because they lose confidence in the nature and future of that system and are gripped by systemic fear. In the period before 1917 earnings usually led prices by a significant degree because the idea of forward pricing had not yet obtained widespread acceptance and investors closely followed "par" values.

But, excepting the 1930s and the first decade of the 21st century share prices have fluctuated with respect to earnings per share and overall have been negatively correlated. During those two anomalous periods the authors note that share price and earnings per share were significantly and positively correlated. The authors assert that, during those two times capitalists lost confidence in the forward looking nature of investments and, in fact, became backwards looking. This was due to systemic fear.

Systemic fear is a class of its own. It has little to do with the periodic downswings that make capitalists cautious, and it has no connection to the dread and apprehension that regularly puncture their habitual greed. "Business as usual" is always uncertain, and with capitalism constantly in flux, investors are forever fearful about profit and wary about risk: they are concerned that earnings may not rise as quickly as they hope, or that they might fall; that volatility will increase; that interest rates will rise; and so on.

But these fears, no matter how intense, are self-contained. They pertain to the level and pattern of profit, not to its existence. They do not impinge on the normality of profit - i.e., on the belief that assets have a "natural" tendency to grow and that capitalists have the power and right to enforce and appropriate such expansion. And most crucially, they reflect the belief that expected profits, whether high or low, could always be priced to their present value. Regardless of the market's ups and downs, the underlying assumption is that the capitalization process itself - the ritual that creorders modern capitalism and anchors its dominant ideology - will remain intact.

Occasionally, though, there arises a very different and far deeper type of fear: the terrifying thought that profit might cease to exist. This latter fear is associated with systemic crisis--that is, with periods during which the very future of capitalism is put into question. It is what Hegel meant when he spoke of the bondsman's "fear of death":

For this consciousness [of the capitalist bound to the steering wheel of a megamachine gone wild] was not in peril and fear for this element or that [such as falling profit or rising volatility], nor for this or that moment of time [like a sharp market correction or a declaration of war], it was afraid for its entire being; it felt the fear of death, the sovereign master [the ultimate wrath of the ruled]. It has been in that experience melted to its inmost soul, has trembled throughout its every fibre, and all that was fixed and steadfast has quaked within it [will capitalism survive?] [Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, The Phenomenology of Mind,]

The first time capitalists were gripped by such systemic terror was during the Great Depression of the 1930s. The second time is during the present crisis, a protracted turbulence that started in the early 2000s and is still ongoing.

The authors note that the first crisis ended abruptly in 1939 with the ramp up of war production:

The 2000s

This situation lasted for sixty years. During that period, capitalism went through many ups and downs, and there was the occasional scare that sent markets reeling. But none of the jolts was serious enough to evoke the Hegelian fear of death. At no point was the existence of the system itself in doubt. It was business as usual, with greed and fear easily incorporated into future earnings projections and risk calculations. The financial model seemed to work like clockwork.

But in 2000, the machine stopped. The threat of a new systemic crisis suddenly loomed large, and the specter of backward-looking pricing, having been dormant for decades, returned to haunt the markets.

Figure 4 displays price and earnings per share data from 1970 to the present, with the shaded area denoting a period of systemic crisis. The two top series, denoting levels, are rebased with December 2007=100 and graphed against the left arithmetic scale. The bottom series express the annual rates of change (smoothed as 3-year moving averages) and are plotted against the right arithmetic scale.

As the data in Figure 2 and Figure 4 show, from 1939 to the early 2000s, both price and earnings per share trended upwards. But in line with the "New-Era Theory" - which by now had become mainstream finance - the short-term correlation between them remained loose and indeed negative (see Table 2). During that long stretch, earnings went through several sharp declines. For instance, during the end-of-communism crisis of 1989-1991 they dropped 37%, and following the emerging markets scare of 1997-1998 they fell 6% - yet in both cases stock prices continued to soar. And conversely, in 1972-1974 earnings increased by 42% while prices dropped by 43%; similarly, at the end of 1987 earnings increased by 14% while prices dropped by 27%. All in all, then, investors seemed perfectly happy to obey the theory. Throughout the period, they ignored the ephemeral present in favor of the eternal future.

But in 2000, they suddenly lost their forward-looking vision, and they haven't regained it since. Over the past decade, earnings have experienced two very violent swings; yet stock prices, instead of remaining impartial to the immediate gyrations of the earnings cycle, have traced it, and rather tightly: the correlation coefficient between the rates of growth series, smoothed as 3-years moving averages, jumped to +0.64, up from to -0.15 in the preceding six decades.

The authors note the concern that surrounded the dot.com crash and the collapse of the "new economy" followed swiftly by 9-11. While that crash bottomed in early 2003 and a nice "V" shaped recovery ensued until 2008, more players were now aware of the limits of that recovery.

These limits become visible when we take a bird's eye view of the postwar period. During that period, U.S. market capitalization was fueled by a highly favorable combination of several power processes.[22] First, after the Great Depression, capitalists managed to force a systematic redistribution in their favor, seeing the combined share of their pretax profit and interest in national income rise from about 12% in the 1930s and 1940s to roughly 17% in the 2000s. Second, they also succeeded in pushing down the effective corporate tax rate - from 55% in the 1940s to less than 30% in the 2000s - a decline that caused their after-tax corporate earnings to increase even further. Third, the broader consolidation of power relations and the establishment of capital-friendly regulations and macro stabilization policies helped them reduce earning volatility - and, by extension, their own perceptions of risk. This decline in perceived risk, along with the general fall in interest rates since the late 1970s, lowered the rate at which they discount their expected earnings, thereby boosting their present value even more.

These power processes all had the same impact on the stock market: they pushed it up. The effect of income redistribution and falling corporate taxes convinced capitalists that net profits would continue to rise much faster than national income, while falling risk perception along with the drop in interest rates over the past thirty years allowed them to re-price this steep earning trend at ever lower discount rates. The net consequence was that the overall stock market capitalization rose more than four times faster than the gross national income: it soared from $167 billion in 1952 to $20.3 trillion in 2007 - a 127-fold increase - compared with a mere 39-fold increase in dollar value of gross national income, which grew from $312 billion to $12.4 trillion.[23] [24]

The trouble was that, by the early 2000s, after half a century in overdrive, these power processes have already run much of their course, making future increases in stock prices more difficult to achieve. Capitalism is inherently conflictual, so power is always imposed against opposition. This built-in conflict means that from a certain point onward, there tends to be a positive relationship between the existing level of capitalist power on the one hand, and the force that needs to be exerted in order to further increase that power on the other. Thus, the higher the income inequality, the harder it is to make it more unequal; the lower the corporate tax rate, the harder it is to cut it further; the smaller the volatility of earnings, the harder it is to stabilize them further; and the lower the rate of interest, the harder it is to see it fall further.

The exhaustion of these redistributional/conflictual fuels left the stock market at the mercy of aggregate growth - and yet the "real economy" too seemed to be running into the sand.[25] Expressed in purchasing power parity, annual GDP growth in the United States has drifted downwards, from 3.6% in the period from 1950 to 1975 to 3.1% since then, while world GDP growth dropped from 4.7% to 3.5%.[26] Since the late 1990s, official growth measures seemed to have recovered, leading capitalists to hype the unlimited potential of "high technology" and the "knowledge economy," along with the fabulous riches promised by rapid urbanization in the so-called "emerging markets." But by the early 2000s, these hopes were increasingly spoiled by new doomsday scenarios, ranging from "peak oil" and "climate tipping" to "runaway pandemics" and "environmental devastation"

While the authors do not delve into the debt driven causes of the post 2003 bubble led recovery they do note the renewed crisis that came in 2007-2008.

Is the Dominant Ideology Broken?

As Figure 4 shows, between their June 2007 peak and their May 2009 bottom, earnings fell by 91% - a decline greater than the 75% collapse experienced during the first three years of the Great Depression. If capitalism were here to stay, this must have been the mother of all investment opportunities: with profits bound to rebound back to their long-term trend, their rise was sure to be spectacular - as were the gains to investors loyal to the forward-looking ritual. But few seemed convinced. And, so...share prices continued to slide, closely following the footsteps of current earnings.

Given that the bear market, measured in rates of change, was approaching historical lows, and since such bottoms had previously always been followed by major upswings, many forward-looking strategists - from permanent bull Barton Biggs, to Wizard of Omaha Warren Buffet, to doom-and-gloom Martin Wolf - were advising their followers to fasten their seat belts in preparation for an imminent takeoff.[28] And in early 2009 they were finally vindicated.

But the rebound had to do neither with the advice of analysts nor with the prescience of capitalists. The real trigger was earnings. Recall that, by now, investors had lost their belief in the inevitable, at least for the time being, and that instead of looking forward to eternity they kept staring at the past. Everyone was glued to the earning cycle, anxiously waiting for it to find a bottom. And, sure enough, it was only after profits finally started to increase that stock prices began to rise.[29] By April 2010, the market was up 60%; but as with the decline, the increase, too, merely traced the path of earnings. Given the thrust of the profit up-cycle, though, with earnings having risen more than nine-fold from their near-zero level at the 2008 bottom, the question arises again: why are investors still behaving as if they doubt that the upswing is real, not to say sustainable?

In our view, the answer is that the crisis of the late 2000s reintroduced an additional and far deeper form of fear. During the early 2000s, the concern was largely practical: the stock market appeared to be running out of fuel, and the main fear, however fuzzy, was that the level of capitalization may have been approaching a glass ceiling. But since the late 2000s, the very ideology of capitalization has been put into question: the capitalist class seems to have lost confidence in its own theories and rituals - and, therefore, in its ability to rule.

To show the present uncertain state of affairs the authors proceed to cite the FT's "dense fog of uncertainty" editorial, Alan Greenspan's "state of shocked disbelief" testimony, John Kay's attempt to answer the Queen's question, many of Martin Wolf's observations and culminate with Gillian Tett's 2010 observation: "In this new world of sovereign risk, what really matters is a set of issues that cannot be plugged into a spreadsheet. The old compass no longer works."

They then ask:

Is Capitalism Heading for Systemic Collapse?

The decade-long breakdown of capitalization is no fluke. The fact that for ten years now capitalists have been pricing equities based on past profit betrays deep distress. Their fear now is not only that the level of capitalization may be bumping into a glass ceiling; it is also that the very ritual of capitalization - the universal crystal ball through which they have been "seeing" the future for nearly a century - may be giving them awfully wrong signals. And when the future looks bleak, and the dominant ideology appears opaque if not misleading, there arises the specter of systemic fear.

Given the foregoing, the obvious question to ask is: does systemic fear signal the imminent collapse of capitalism?

This is by no means an easy question to answer. The difficulty is threefold. First, systemic fear - in capitalism as in other modes of power - is rare and therefore difficult to generalize about. Second, although much has been written about previous episodes of social collapse, it is unclear how much of it applies to the capitalist mode of power. Third and finally, systemic fear and systemic collapse are deeply intertwined in ways that may not be easy to disentangle. Nonetheless, given that we are dealing with the very existence of capitalism, discussing these questions - even speculatively, as we do in the remainder of the paper - seems appropriate.

They note that, while decline can be a lengthy affair, collapse is often sudden and often occurs in an environment of loss of confidence by elites.

But, in our view, for a mode of power to finally implode, these reasons must be complemented by the loss of confidence in obedience. When the ruling class is no longer certain of its ability to govern, it becomes indecisive; indecision inhibits ruthlessness; lack of ruthlessness fuels opposition; and effective opposition is the other side of disintegrating rule. It is only at that point, when it becomes obvious that the ruling class, benumbed by systemic fear, has lost control, that final collapse becomes possible.

We are at that stage, they assert. They describe the collapse of Babylon from the Book of Daniel, the collapse of the Easter Island civilization per Jared Diamond and the collapse of the Soviet Union under Gorbachev.

The collapse of a mode of power is always underwritten by its own historical circumstances. But as these and numerous other examples suggest, it is the rulers' systemic fear and loss of confidence that makes those circumstances - whatever they are - culminate in an abrupt crash. In and of themselves, fear and loss of confidence are rarely if ever sufficient to set off the implosion; but they are always necessary, and that necessity makes them important to analyze.

In the case of the capitalist mode of power there are additional factors:

Complex Systems and Time Transformers

As noted, systemic fear is not unique to capitalism. But in our opinion, the likelihood of systemic fear turning gradual decline into rapid collapse is much greater in capitalism than in any prior mode of power. There are two related reasons for this claim. First, modern capitalism is much more "complex" than earlier modes of power, and that complexity makes it susceptible to implosion.[30] Second, unlike other modes of power, the ritual of capitalization acts as a "time transformer": it condenses the long future into the singular present, and that reduction can turn capitalist expectations - particularly during times of systemic fear - into an immediate reality. Let's consider these reasons more closely.

Most of the time, the high complexity of capitalism allows it to quell and encompass limited challenges to power and local breakdowns of rule. But the agility and flexibility of capitalism have limits, and when these limits are crossed, complexity can turn "against the system." At that point, internal challenge, external attack and ecological calamity, instead of being counteracted and absorbed, get amplified. And as the reverberations spread, the system doesn't simply weaken; it implodes.

This type of scenario, in which complexity facilitates collapse, is spelled out in David Korowicz's Tipping Point (2010). His argument, like others in this genre, builds mainly on standard "real-growth" economics, of which we are critical, and it offers very little discussion of the power relations that we emphasize. But his analysis of complexity could easily be extended to a broader power perspective and therefore is worth exploring in some detail.

Korowicz claims that the imminent peaking of oil production is a "tipping point" - a threshold beyond which capitalist civilization will not simply decline, but rapidly disintegrate. His initial premises are similar to those of most peak-oil analysts: (1) capitalism requires continuous economic growth; (2) ongoing economic growth necessitates ever-increasing energy inputs; (3) the key energy input - oil and its derivatives - has no immediate substitutes; and (4) once the production of oil - and of fossil fuels more generally - peaks and starts to decline, economic growth and the capitalism that is based on it must follow suit. The disagreement is over what follows. According to most analysts, the systemic consequences of peak oil are likely to be gradual: the optimists envisage an unstable period during which the piecemeal development of renewable energy sources and energy-saving techniques substitutes for the decline of fossil fuels, while the pessimists see a drawn-out process of deindustrialization and social decline. For Korowicz, though, these gradual scripts all suffer from a crucial omission: they ignore the operational fabric of capitalism, and that oversight leads them to the wrong conclusion.

Global production, he says, is mediated through highly complex and deeply intertwined critical infrastructures - including money, trade, transportation, communications, water, and electricity, among others. The operation of these integrated infrastructures rests on and presupposes the ongoing expansion of credit and debt. And that expansion is possible only because investors believe that the additional credit and debt will be serviced and ultimately repaid. According to Korowicz, though, this latter belief - and therefore the entire operational fabric that rests on it - can only hold in a growing economy. And here lies the trap.

Once humanity passes the threshold of peak oil, economic growth must turn negative - and, at that point, the assumption of ever-growing credit and debt breaks down. Investors suddenly realize that, looking forward, their assets have an inherently negative yield. And since this realization inverts the basis on which the whole society operates, the result is not a gradual decline but sudden collapse. The first to tank are the equity and debt markets; these are followed by mutually reinforcing reverberations and the eventual rupture of money, trade, investment, communications and other critical infrastructures; and the process is then sealed by conflict, war and die-off (as argued for example by Jay Hanson).

 

As long as this diary is, the paper on which it is based is much longer and much better developed.

Poll
When will capitalism collapse?
. Never! The rich will grind the faces of the masses into the dirt! 9%
. By New Years Day, 2011. 0%
. In November 2011,as some Mayan Calendar "experts" expect. 0%
. In 2012, as other Mayan "experts" and the movie predict. 9%
. In 2013, when Obama establishes a socialist New World Order 0%
. Never. Capitalism will be transformed into a better world order. 36%
. Capitalism will end, AND the rich will grind our noses into the dirt. 45%

Votes: 11
Results | Other Polls
Display:
Interesting article, thanks for going to the trouble of formatting it for ET consumption.

Your poll, though, I find flawed.

I'm of the opinion that capitalists want nothing more than to stop being capitalists.  That is, as proper capitalists, they have to compete with each other in some sort of market environment, and they do this by investing their wealth in different forms of productive or disruptive economic activity.  This is hard, and you have to pay attention to it, and anyone might fail.  If there's an alternative, like fixing the market via state power, than that is infinitely preferable to proper capitalist competition.

Thus, the end of capitalism may well be the best possible outcome, from the perspective of some global elites, depending on how they manage it.  If it means an end to capitalist competition amongst themselves, and the beginning of a long life of leisure as the aristocratic slave-masters of a neo-feudal state, than the end of capitalism would be wonderful.

So you poll needs a new option - Capitalism will end, AND the rich will forever grind out noses into the dirt.

by Zwackus on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 10:53:19 AM EST
The poll has been so amended. It was late, I was tired and the poll was conceived more as comic relief than anything else.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 11:30:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If we do not end our days under a neo-feudal monopoly capitalist regime it may well be due to the capitalists having poisoned their mega-machine with counterfeit out of their insatiable greed.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 11:32:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My apologies for the length of this post. I came upon the paper on which it is based just as I was preparing to leave town for two days and I prepared the diary upon my return. Their paper, Systemic Fear, Modern Finance and the Future of Capitalism, is the most insightful critique of the current situation I have found, and I thought it important to present enough to give a reasonable synopsis.

When this analysis is combined with an understanding of the role of overall debt and financial fraud in the creation of The Global Financial Clusterfuck the potential for systemic collapse accompanied by a general discrediting of the existing elites is clear. The weakening and subsequent collapse of the Soviet Union did not lead to a fatuous "End of History" but instead removed the most serious external constraint on the operation of financial capitalism. As the leading financial capitalists gained greater and greater influence over the government and society their pursuit of their one real goal, return on investment leading to differential accumulation of capital, turned malignant.

The form of that malignancy was fraud on a staggering scale originating inside the most powerful citadels of capitalism -- Wall Street and The City. Bereft of any external discipline and with regulation and law effectively co-opted, Wall Street and The City indulged in a prolonged orgy of greed based fraud that has poisoned both the business environment and the societies in which the businesses are based. This fraud has acted like an anti-lubricant in the mega-machine of financial capitalism. To properly address the problem the fraud would have to be acknowledged. Self interest and cowardice prevent this.

But this is, potentially, a positive development. Any effective resolution of the current GFC will discredit existing financial elites, their political proxies and the ideology upon which their system is based. To a great extent that ideology is embodied in current "mainstream economics". The weaknesses of that mainstream are understood by the community of heterodox economists and superior alternatives are on offer, notably by Steve Keen, but also by  environmental economists such as Robert Nadeau and others, some of whom have recently presented their thoughts as testimony before the US Congress.

Until now the criticisms of the existing regime have been blunted by the fact that they would, if implemented, reduce the sacred rate of return. But that shield fails when the return is shown to be fraud and counterfeit. The possibility of a sustainable world based on returns as low as 3% starts to look good compared with fraudulent returns of 18% that are based on activities that are driving us to multiple social and environmental catastrophes.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 11:25:10 AM EST
I'll play the Devil's advocate here. I think the thrust of the paper itself is faulty.

The first reason is that capitalism is not (necessarily) geared towards growth, not even in light of modern finance. Allow me to explain. First of all, I've always found it odd that people believe capitalism is geared towards perpetual growth at any cost. That is a neoliberal conception of capitalism. We know what conditions allow any economy, including a capitalistic one, to maintain a zero growth rate. Investment must equal depreciation, and the rest can be consumed in whatever distribution (Marx' reproductive tables). If you have technological progress, the same gross investment will equal economic growth, since depreciation costs will be lower, so for zero growth you'd have to reduce it. We also know of cases of capitalistic production (such as Late Mediaeval societies) where capitalistic production was effectively geared towards zero growth.

Secondly, an investor will not look at global GDP when deciding whether to invest. What is of interest to him is whether he will achieve the desired return on investment. That can also be done in cases of shrinking GDP. The debt service will be larger for other economic actors  in the following time periods, but that's about it from a global perspective.

Thirdly, people with capital did quite well during the Great Depression. Due to low demand, prices kept falling and the economy stagnated. Sounds bad, right? But if you have capital, deflation means a risk-free investment with a rate of return equal to the rate of deflation, while any investment becomes quite risky because of insufficient demand (who will produce if there are no buyers?), so a reasonably risk-averse or risk-neutral investor will probably decide to sit on his money in a deflationary setting.

There wasn't a crisis of capitalisation per se. The reality was much simpler: Since no one knew if others would stop hoarding cash, it was risky to invest or consume. That, of course, led due to a downward spiral based on completely rational economic behaviour. It took the state to do the irrational thing and restart the economy.

Finally, saying that oil has no substitutes is patently absurd. No substitute is perfect, granted, but when taken together they can replace oil.

Consider transportation. You have electric cars, electric scooters, and short range (100-mile) freight trucks with technology set to improve. Long-distance? Trains. Shipping uses very little oil per pound transported, and vessels can go nuclear. Farming equipment? The first electric combine I know of was built in the Soviet Union in 1937. Materials? Petrochemicals can be produced from other organic sources and truly irreplaceable materials (some plastics, pesticides, and medicine) consist of a fraction of total production.

As for energy generation, oil consists of just over 30% of the energy we use. However, that statistic has a flaw: No one says whether this is net energy or gross energy, in other words, whether the low efficiency of internal combustion engines (25% on average) is taken into account.

Even taking that into account, we do have enormous energy potential in renewables and nuclear, especially 4th-generation plants which would reprocess current nuclear waste. And that's not even taking thorium and geothermal into account.

Finally, this "less-energy-means-collapse" handwringing fails to take into account the demand side. If the efficieny of engines doubles, you need half as much energy to maintain the same standard of transportation. In short, if efficiency doubles you can mintain GDP with half as much energy.

This, incidentally, is the mistake Hirsch makes. His whole plan consists essentially of massive construction of coal-to-liquids and heavy oil-processing plants. The only demand-side action he advocates is improving engine efficiency. Hirsch? You do know that the UK has the entire North Sea's worth of energy available in offshore wind, don't you? Wouldn't it make more sense to push for electric cars? Their engines are about 90% efficient, so even taking into account losses on transmission lines (7-10% with state-of-the-art infrastructure) you'll need far less energy. Sure, we'll whine about range, but we'll be driving and not causing global warming.

There. Rebuttal over. Have at it. It's more likely that an oil shortage would spur a crash Keynesian programme of substitution. And precisely because oil wouldn't be available it would be considered legitimate by most persons.

 

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae

by Titus on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 11:44:20 AM EST
My disagreement is not with the alternatives you present but with the idea that they are compatible with financial capitalism as it has been practiced for the last century. That form of capitalism does, in practice, rely on growth. Most of Marx's analysis predates the emergence of true financial capitalism in the final two decades of the 19th century. The paradigm of forward looking finance only gained true market acceptance after WWI, based on the patterns exhibited by stock price vs. earnings per share in the author's Fig. 2. A good brief intro to the reasons why growth has become so basic is provided by Crankykarsten's diary Growth, Growth, Growth!!!

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 01:03:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I skimmed through it, and I disagree. I also went and consulted an economist heavily involved in finance (head of a unit of a major auditing firm), and she agreed: Even if GDP as a whole is declining, that does not mean that the value of all companies will decline or that it will become irrational to lend.

And the reason is pretty much as I've given: If the economy as a whole is collapsing, parts of it may grow. Those parts will see their share price rise and find it easier to service their debt, even while the economy as a whole finds it harder to do so.

Assume GDP falls by 3% per year due to the oil crisis. Any company manufacturing products that do not rely on oil or which produces substitutes will suddenly become an attractive investment. Coal liquefaction, hemp-based plastics, alternative energy, electric cars, you name it. They will grow counter to overall trend.

And we shouldn't really conflate loans with shares. When considering loans the bank is only interested in whether the debtor can pay back the principal and interest. Overall profitability is only of interest to it as indicator of creditworthiness.

Finally, the claim that capitalists didn't rely on future earnings before the end of the 19th century is... odd, to say the least. Mathematical basis came later, but people never purposely invested in money losers.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae

by Titus on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 03:12:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is not the fact of an environment of declining GDP that threatens capitalism. In such environments dominant organizations consolidate their power by destroying and/or absorbing their competitors and thereby using the environment to their advantage. Such organizations also often use the very low interest rates which characterize such environments to upgrade or renovate their facilities.

What threatens capitalism in such periods as the 1930s and the present is the uncertainty surrounding the future. If you are not certain that profits will ever return to previous levels and that the capitalist system will provide, to an acceptable degree, for the welfare of the entire society, then the viability of that system comes into question -- not least in the minds of the capitalists themselves. This is the systemic fear the authors describe and illustrate with the quote from Hegel.

The current situation is complicated by the enormous build up of counterfeit debt on companies balance sheets. Most large financial corporations have significant amounts of such debt and would be insolvent if required to pay it off at any given time. Therefore they hang on to any and all money they can obtain as a means of insulating themselves from insolvency. Richard Koo of Nomura has called this a balance sheet recession as, instead of investing, companies are instead deleveraging and trying to repair their balance sheets.

And while individual corporations can survive a depression by cutting back employment to maintain profitability recovery of the entire economy becomes more difficult the more unemployment there is. The dreaded debt-deflation spiral threatens and the spectre of staving off deflation by the means "Helicopter Ben" has advocated raises the counter spectre of an inflationary spiral.

An individual corporation has to function in one or more societies. If all or most of the societies in which it functions are in serious trouble this is also troubling for even the soundest of corporations. Ask the descendants of the business elite of Tsarist Russia in 1916.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 09:36:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll note that the fear of an inflationary spiral is absurd; if present, it'll quickly be dispelled when the government starts spending and printing money. Basically, until you're close to full capacity, provided there are no bottlenecks and external shocks, inflation is very unlikely.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae
by Titus on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 05:51:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree about the immediate prospects for inflation, but many do not and perceptions can be a problem.  The US$ still has purchasing power, even if there are few US made manufactured consumer goods for it to purchase in our new service economy.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 09:55:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Fuzrthermore, when have capitalists cared for the welfare of the entire society? When they profited from child labour and in general from the extreme exploitation of the majority of society, they didn't question the system. Quite the contrary, as a matter of fact, since they saw it as a natural Darwinist order (with exceptions).

As for debt, it's a strange thing. If there were political will, all te debt could be bought by the state in return for new money. Since we still have a general failure of demand, inflation would be unlikely until recovery is underway (and the question is how much inflation; 16% is bothersome, for example, but not crushing). Even then, it is possible to sterilise supply at the cost of higher interest rates.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae

by Titus on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 05:57:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Titus:
If there were political will, all te debt could be bought by the state in return for new money. Since we still have a general failure of demand, inflation would be unlikely until recovery is underway (and the question is how much inflation; 16% is bothersome, for example, but not crushing). Even then, it is possible to sterilise supply at the cost of higher interest rates.
Such a policy would hurt the rentier class. Since the current economic consensus is basically a rentier religion, it is not surprising that the macroeconomic analysis by the ECB and the EU is completely opposite to yours and that the political will is not there. The ECB is saying that they see inflationary pressures, and that bond purchases must be sterilised now (not when inflation rises) by reducind liquidity. They also have defined 2% inflation as the maximum acceptable and there are no signs that they might (say) double that to 4% (let alone allowing 16%) any time soon. Or ever. And Axel Weber is still primed to become the ECB President next year.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 06:23:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but political will is a funny thing. When conditions deteriorate enough that there are signs of unrest, politicians and elites show a pronounced survival instinct and want to placate the mob.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae
by Titus on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 09:56:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That is possible. However, das monde recently painted a bleak picture of "no-growth capitalism" where rentiers keep everyone else down.
This looks like an awfully unattractive social proposition. Just because of a global bubble episode, there will remain credit obligations and entitlements for decades, if not centuries. You may continue call it capitalism, and talk about reward of private initiatives and innovations, but most of people will have only lottery chances to escape pain and dirt from the birth, while bulk rewards will quietly but consistently go to a small class of... nothing doers.
Also kcurie:
I think the future is more about who wins the narrative than anything else... It seem that we are going to win the battle for universal equality but we are going to lose the masters of universe economic narrative...The development of South America, Asia ,and South Africa is going to come at the expense of the middle class in Europe and the US, so that the master of the universe in the US and Europe can happily buy all the stuff they want with their rents, from now on to the eternity without having to be too worried about inflation.

...

By the way.. how in hell we lost the narrative battle in Europe to print money and increase inflation when we have 30% of our factories shut down by lack of demand, and more than 10% unemployment?

Did we ever try?

The mood is bleak, and I can't find reasons not to feel bleak myself.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:00:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's possible, but I'd argue it's unlikely, because you can only maintain that "deflation is good" propaganda for so long. People tend to wise up when confronted with evidence to the contrary in their lives. And that's the time when the underlying economic conception can change (from capitalism into something else or from one form of capitalism into another).

Seriously, does anyone think Europeans wouldn't riot over a decade of deflation?

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae

by Titus on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:49:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, they may riot. It's calle pogrom and, having thrown all the Jews out before, this time we'll do it on Muslims.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:52:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Spain has already done both -- in 1492!

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 11:51:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The analysis of Bichler and Nitzan indicated that loss of conficence in the capitalist dogma by the capitalists in the face of ongoing evident failure is likely to be accelerated by the very "forward looking" nature of financial capitalism and that this can increase popular resistance to their increasingly incoherent policy prescriptions. They essentially argue that collapse of the dominant ideology now can come much more quickly than it did with the French and Russian Revolutions.  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:06:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In retrospect it might seem that, for instance, the Russian Revolution was relatively sudden. But it was far from clear just before the fact. German intelligence reported that in the interview before they put Lenin on the train to the Finland Station he quipped "We have had 400 years of Romanovs. Why not another 400 years?" The Germans had been unaware that Lenin possessed a sardonic sense of humor but Lenin was also aware that a successful revolution was far from a foregone conclusion. His quip could also have been gallows humor.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:43:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but I'll point out that the underlying economics (not counting supply-sider fairy tales) are sound. The only was I see that happening is if the capitalists try to sugar-coat the future with "everything will be all right" instead of "the next decade will be a bitch but we'll pull through." In essence, we have to distinguish use of economics and its abuse for class warfare.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae
by Titus on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:47:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but I'll point out that the underlying economics (not counting supply-sider fairy tales) are sound.

Of course... in the same sense and to the same extent that American democratic institutions (not counting everything that goes on inside the Beltway) are sound and healthy.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:51:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In 1929 also "the fundamentals of the economy were sound" and asset "prices had reached a permanently high plateau"...

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:53:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What I meant to say is that economics possesses the necessary knowledge to guide us through the transition, as it possesses knowledge which would allow us to get out of recession sooner. Of course, most of the economists who get heard are propagandists and ideologues.

I see two ways out of this: Either we get rioting, perhaps successful, perhaps not to affect change, and, if unsuccessful, we can look forward to, yes, pogroms and dictatorships. On the other hand, it's possible that a Keynes will say "we have alternator trouble" and things will start improving.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae

by Titus on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 11:16:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
economics possesses the necessary knowledge to guide us through the transition

Only if you include the heterodox economists which those in power still refuse to do. Unfortunately "mainstream economics" is devoted to telling the wealthy what they want to hear, not what they need to hear. So as not to feel hypocritical in the process, they have spent fifty years convincing themselves that what the wealthy want to hear is really true. This might promote job security for those economists but is not conducive to good policies.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 11:57:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You know, I don't get neoliberals. Microeconomists with a neoliberal perspective have no problem introducing assumptions which their macro colleagues rabidly deny.

For example, neoliberal models tend to assume imperfect information. But Telser [1980], in his A Theory of Self-Enforcing Agreements notes that if a violation of the agreement is not immediately discovered it does not fundamentally change the dynamic of the model: The net gain from a violation that lasts for more than one period is greater and therefore a violation of the agreement is more likely.

But what is this if not imperfect information? If it can be applied on a micro level, why not on the macro?

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae

by Titus on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 12:07:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For several good critiques of the current "mainstream" approach to economics in the USA see the testimony of Dr. Robert M. Solow, Dr. Sidney G. Winter, Dr. Scott E. Page and Dr. David C. Colander last week before the Committee on Oversight and Investigations of the US House of Representatives under Chairman Brad Miller. The links are their names in the left column.

The Dynamic Stochastic General Equilibrium Model of the economy, which is where almost all federal grant money for research is directed, comes in for brutal criticism. I was stunned to find out that the formal model on which almost all economic modeling in the USA is done is not just an equilibrium model but aggregates all economic activity to the rational decision making of a single actor. Kinda hard to model conflicts in such a structure!

Steve Keen has developed three sector models with stock and flow structures that are specifically dynamic, in that they use ordinary differential equations, and that give results that look very close to what we have experienced, but he has done this in Australia and mostly on his own. Check out the most recent four or five posts on his site, Debtwatch.blogs Steve seems to be gaining traction. I hope it is a trend.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 10:14:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I just read Solow. Wow. In just 3 pages he demolishes Dynamic General Equilibrium while at the same time professing to be a mainstream economist and believing there is no alternative to current economics...

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 10:19:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ahh! The wonderful privilege of being both an emeritus professor and an Nobelist.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 11:25:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think he does support a more realistic economic model. What we have is, at best, a zero order approximation, about as minimalist as you could get in the model and some make amazingly broad claims. He does note that he prefers many small, modest models. Perhaps he is keeping Kurt Gödel's incompleteness theorem in mind.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 11:29:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
David Colander's paper runs to eight pages, including notes, but is also a good read. Good discussion of US economics during the last few decades and some wise comments on where we need to go next, especially with regard to NSF funding for economic research.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 02:13:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Neo-Classical Mainstream liked to justify keeping their equilibrium approach on the grounds that it maintains an intuitive link between the micro economic foundations and the macro theory. But critics have demolished the assumptions underlying their micro approach and yet they will not confront this and instead keep on keeping on. There has been significant discussion of this situation on ET over the last year, but the links don't leap to what is left of my mind just now.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 04:23:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem is what happens after the collapse.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:50:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Again agreed about the historical character of capitalism.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 09:57:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Titus:
Assume GDP falls by 3% per year due to the oil crisis

That assumption would immediately doom heavily indebted corporations and individuals, especially were we to stipulate that for it to be "an environment of deflation" it would have to persist for more than one year. If deflation at 3% persisted for several years it would crush any individual or corporation that carried any net debt. There would be NO demand for loans, except for those who could confidently expect >6% return on their investment. The chief use for savings would be as a hedge against future trouble and for buying assets on the cheap.

Chris Cook has pointed out the built-in problem with compound interest. Going back to antiquity, compound interest has routinely led to crisis when the debt grew to unserviceable proportions. One solution was periodic debt jubilees. That is the reason behind religious injunctions against usury, which has been taken to mean charging any rate of interest. In Christianity, usury was redefined to refer to excessive rates of interest. In Islam the fact of charging interest has been disguised. In the Vedic tradition jewelers and goldsmiths, who were the traditional lenders, are placed in the same caste as butchers for the reason that the basic activity of their trade was thought to lead to desensitization to suffering due to the need to impose suffering on others via the equivalent of foreclosure. (I am still trying to find a primary reference in the Vedas for this assertion.) Proper Islamic finance  required a business partnership, so that the investor shares risk as well as rewards, although this is under great pressure. That is why Chris's approaches are popular in the Islamic world.

When your monetary system is based on debt backed money and compound interest, in order to have stability it would be necessary for the economy to grow faster than the debt grows. Einstein's statement: "The most powerful force in the universe is compound interest!" might be amusing but there is more than a little truth in it.

Many have asserted that economies and monetary systems utilizing money secured against debt at compound rates of interest is inherently unstable. Are you aware of any demonstration or convincing argument to the contrary?  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 09:41:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So, what is there to do for the investors in a no-growth capitalism. Some of them may capture those remaining few growth areas - okay. And the rest?! They will be sitting risk-free on their assets, and collecting payments from the last debtors still moving?

This looks like an awfully unattractive social proposition. Just because of a global bubble episode, there will remain credit obligations and entitlements for decades, if not centuries. You may continue call it capitalism, and talk about reward of private initiatives and innovations, but most of people will have only lottery chances to escape pain and dirt from the birth, while bulk rewards will quietly but consistently go to a small class of... nothing doers.

Stories about contributions of material capital and improving living standards are becoming irrelevant. I cannot tell how much this financial capitalism of implicit but binding promises is a new thing since the Industrial Revolution or Marx, but it got a dominating power of its own to wag economic and biological lives, regardless of material resources and prospectives.

As for the "absurd" energy interchangeability, people stopped challenging laws of thermodynamics quite a few centuries ago, and for what I know, there are no serious attempts to cheat them. We may cover the North sea with wind turbines, but no circulation of currently flowing Sun's energy would beat the black fluid condensed in millions of years. Alternative energy production requires quite much energy input itself, and the infrastructure cannot be changed overnight. I am more optimistic than this Archdruid, but I suspect strongly than no wonder innovation regarding energy is forthcoming. Yeah, the stone age ended not because of a lack of stones... but the civilization was never close to running out of stones either. What is our record of making key innovations just on time?!

And even if we would get a wonder breakthrough, what does it mean socially to be utterly dependent on a few genius innovators?

by das monde on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 02:12:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If we do get a wonder invention, it will not come out of the garage of a solitary genius. It will come about through a concerted research and development process in the context of a large, government-supported industry. For the same reason that new planets are discovered by large, government-supported research universities, rather than amateur astronomers with hobby-grade equipment in their back yards: All the low-hanging fruit has been picked already.

And the implementation will be a matter of ramp-up times, regulatory jostling, project management and so on and so forth.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 07:29:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the estimated EROI of wind is about 15, while the estimated of EROI of PVs is over 5 (coal 5, nuclear 5, hydro 10, stc. See  http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3839 (fig. 3).

Furthermore, we should note that renewables are increasing exponentially, despite the lack of a crash programme. As for cost, it's estimated that, in order to replace all US electricity generation with solar at $5/kWh, you'd need $11 trillion (Maugeri, Beyond the Age of Oil). However, solar energy prices have fallen to 30 cents/kWh (http://www.solarbuzz.com/StatsCosts.htm), which changes the equation dramatically. And that's not counting wind energy.

In short, our record of producing innovations just in time seems to be pretty good lately. And I know that someone will point out we need rare earths. I did some reading and it seems that we might be facing a shortage from 2012-2014, but then mines in the US, Australia, Greenland, South Africa, and elsewhere (Vietnam, as an example) are supposed to come online. Greenland alone (the Kvalefjeld deposit) is expected to be able to satisfy 20-40% of global demand for the next 50 years.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae

by Titus on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:04:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And you're missing a very important point about oil.

Here's a breakdown of oil use (2008):


Sector and share

Electricity: 6.7%
Heat: 0.3%
Other energy transformation sectors: 6.3%
Manufacturing: 7.5%
Civil and agricultural: 11.8%
Road transportation: 40.4%
Other transportation: 12.7%
Nonenergy uses: 14.3%

Source: Leonardo Maugeri, Beyond the Age of Oil, p. 36

Let's focus on transport (a similar principle is at work in other sectors, since fuel oil - manufacturing - can be replaced with electricity or steam power etc.)

The energy efficiency of a typical internal combustion engine is 15-20%. Let's assume 25% to be generous. The world used 85.5 mbd of oil in 2008. Of that, 53.1% went to transportation, excluding civil (i.e. public transport, govenmental uses, and so on) and agricultural use.

So, out of 85.5 mbd 53/100 = 45.315 mbd oil is used for transportation on a global level.

However, taking into account 25% efficiency, we actually use only about 11.329 mbd of energy derived from oil. The rest goes up in smoke.

An electric engine, on the other hand, converts 80% of electrical energy into forward motion. To this we have to add transmission losses, which used to be over 7% in the US in the 1990s, but average 6.5% now. Let's assume 10% to take into account longer transmission lines because of renewables.

In this case, the efficiency of an electric engine averages 70%. This means that we have to generate almost three times less energy to maintain a fleet of electrical cars of the same size with an equal amount of miles driven. In short, we "only" need to replace 11.329mbd + 30/100 x 11.329 = 14,7277 mbd of oil in energy terms, not 45.315.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae

by Titus on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:27:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And this implicitly assumes no substitution for more efficient means of transportation (long-distance trucks with trains, larger cars with smaller electric cars, and the entire fleet of trucks can be converted to natural gas as a temporary measure).

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae
by Titus on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:30:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
All of these things are possible, given a resolution of political constraints from incumbent interests. The problem is that fossil fuel incumbents want to sell the last barrel of oil at the highest price and are relatively unconcerned with what comes next.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:49:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not exactly.

I'd point out several factors: Regardless of the oil lobby, hybrids and electric cars are entering production, with several already available and more on the way, both from European, Asian, and US manufacturers. At $50/barrel, alternatives become competitive, and other companies would be fools not to profit from the situation.

Secondly, oil companies themselves are investing heavily into wind, solar, and electric vehicles (see Norway's Statoil for a good example). I'd argue that, despite the fact that oil companies are trying to milk the oil cow for all it's worth, they're beginning to diversify.

This makes sense if you consider the market share. Western companies control only 7% of global oil reserves. Over 60% is owned by national oil companies. There may well be a larger profit in selling substitutes than in solely profiting from price and allowing other companies to gain infinitely larger profits from it. Substitutes capture part of those companies' market share of oil.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae

by Titus on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:55:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But fossil fuel companies are both in the US and Europe are opposing reasonable feed in tariffs and other policy actions that would accelerate the transition to sustainable energy and some of them have entered into alternative technologies, at least in part, so as to be able, via patents to spread Fear, Doubt And Uncertainty, and thereby to control and delay the rate at which they are introduced: sabotage of competition, if you will.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 12:05:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But they're not the only economic actors. Furthermore, they may certainly oppose feed-in tariffs, but when prices go high enough tariffs aren't needed. And Europe is resource-poor. Really, after a few cold winters, courtesy of Ukraine (or Russia, depends on whom you ask) there might be a bit of pushback. You know, aluminium smelters hate to replace the most expensive bits because an electric outage caused the molten metal to cool; glassworks face a similar problem with molten glass and natural gas.

As for your final claim, do you have any links to substantiate? Statoil, for example, constructs wind plants.

Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae

by Titus on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 12:11:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Furthermore, they may certainly oppose feed-in tariffs, but when prices go high enough tariffs aren't needed.

A common misconception. FITs are mainly required to counteract excessive price volatility, rather than insufficient price level.

And price signals reflect conditions today, while the replacement time for the electricity infrastructure is measured in years or decades. Which, incidentally, is one of the several excellent reasons we can't rely on the market to do electricity.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 01:41:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ARGeezer:
and are relatively unconcerned with what comes next.

i think they are most concerned, and for it to be nukular...

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 01:13:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I personally believe that it would be possible to build a sustainable, prosperous, more equal world by moving to minimum non-renewable resource usage, long lived products, recycling and slow population reduction. I also believe that such a future is less probable because it would require foresight and great restraint on greed and immediate rewards -- things we are very poor at doing. So it is more probable that we will turn the whole world into a hot version of Easter Island.

I do not believe we can get to a sustainable world with the elites we currently have and certainly cannot get there with the attitudes promulgated by the currently dominant group of those elites. And the vast majority of population of The WestTM buy into at least most of the attitudes our elites have spent so much money promulgating. In any case most of the population is too distracted by THE THREAT OF TERROR to focus too long on anything else. I do not believe this is an accident.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 04:38:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ARGeezer:
I do not believe we can get to a sustainable world with the elites we currently have and certainly cannot get there with the attitudes promulgated by the currently dominant group of those elites.

maybe you underestimate the combined power of economic pressure and the internet's ability to jump boundaries and unite despite distance...

right will prevail, after wrong has had its chance to prove itself so.

rational action trumps animal spirits, long term.

survival favours the patient above all, evil has its own downfall baked right into the recipe.

i don't know this, obviously, but i act as if i did, because i can't maintain enthusiasm for living any other way.

belief is a mercy sometimes...

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 05:32:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
right will prevail, after wrong has had its chance to prove itself so.

survival favours the patient above all, evil has its own downfall baked right into the recipe.

Sounds good, very uplifting, but no.  The winners win, period.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 05:53:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The winners win, period.

what period? there isn't any, (except for one of your own invention.) winners are sometimes good, especially long term.

boils down to faith, like so many things.

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 06:10:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thought of this analogy overnight; God, ET stays with me.

Look at three creatures: A human, a fly, and a spider.

From the human's point of view, the fly is a pest, a buzzing carrier of disease.

From the spider's point of view, the fly is a future dinner.

From the fly's point of view, he's just trying to "make a living", no offence humans.

So the human swats the fly and says, "Good Riddance".

Is the human right or wrong?  What about the loss of a meal for the spider?

One thing is certain.  The fly is DEAD!  The fly is a loser!  PERIOD!!  There is a PERIOD!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 06:27:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
i don't know this, obviously, but i act as if i did, because i can't maintain enthusiasm for living any other way.

A degree of optimism is a necessity, and, if all else fails, a resolute choice. The reason is that if we despair we could miss the opportunity to improve things. And then there is my current sig line. :-)

But even though the odds might seem long and the prospects gloomy, I truly don't see a world wide Easter Island as inevitable. The species homo has gone through severe population declines before. See the current issue of Scientific American on that subject. I do think that a serious drop in population in the rest of this century is likely. But Europe prospered in the decades after the worst of the Black Death. Perhaps the wheel will turn again.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 08:28:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks, ARG.

Better a reduced, wiser human race than the shambolic mess we have inherited, and pass on largely unredeemed... though naturally i would prefer we all made it through without our numbers being so reduced!

quality over quantity, every time.

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 09:03:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Better a reduced, wiser human race ...

Take heart, it's in the works.  I can see that future day, the Palins, Cheneys, Bushes, Hiltons et al sitting around a table, quaffing the best wines and aged scotches, watching the few remaining peasants battle in the arena over a balony (sp?) sandwich.

All is right with the world, from the wealthy point of view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 06:34:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
melo:
Better a reduced, wiser human race than the shambolic mess we have inherited, and pass on largely unredeemed...
Death wish?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 06:38:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
For very many, effectively, yes. Per Norman O. Brown in Life Against Death. Is that not what religions that preach deferred gratification in the "afterlife" tend towards? The Sweet Bye and Bye.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 08:48:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
hey if it were up to me they could all stick around!

so many are so miserable though, there are fates worse than death.

i think to a mentally healthy individual, death should hold no terror. without it life would be in quite the little jam!

and yes, i am ready to cede my footprint if/when necessary, just in no hurry!

i think overpopulation is only a problem with the presently unfair distribution of resources.

iow, if we all learned to live with a small footprint there may be room for double the numbers, especially if most ate meat once a week or so, (if at all) and learned to enjoy life without all the planet-killing accoutrements deemed so vital to a 'western' existence.

as for thanatos, a deathwish, i have known that, but i would never want to pass sentence even on idiots, not my gig. an urge to die does not feel bad per se, it just feels like your time of usefulness is winding down, and a good (long?) rest feels in order.

i suspect we all have it, or will in the fullness of time.

when it's your time...better to let go gracefully, no?

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 09:07:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
melo:
so many are so miserable though, there are fates worse than death
You first. It takes a special kind of pride to pronounce other people to be better off dead.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 09:10:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
having fun playing gotcha?

Basta with taking bits out of context and twisting the meaning 180 to suit you, please.

nothing better to do? being willful in this way wastes both of our time. i'm not going to be baited. i know where i stand, i'm comfortable with it and my explanation, (which i believe anyone could understand, if they wanted to.)

you really think i'm going to trust you not to be disingenuously provocative, with our history?

nice try...

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 10:54:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Your writing style is, let's say, lyrical, and so open to interpretation that you really shouldn't complain when it's misinterpreted, especially in the context of the relish some people around here take in the putative doom of the human race. Sigh, and correct the impression you've allowed form.

What am I saying? You're right, any challenges are in bad faith and Mig should apologise for not correctly divining your intentions.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 11:08:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
laudable effort at peacemaking, colman.

Sigh, and correct the impression you've allowed form.

? how whiteheadian, lol.

your last para is refreshingly ambiguous, my snark meter reads low on the aggression scale, but as for being right...

i assume we're all right, in speaking for ourselves, and i don't see it either as zero-sum, or as a competitive thing.

as for being lyrical, so what? everything is open to misinterpretation, however prosaic. some enjoy being crisp and dry, some play more with words, it's all good for contrast.

i strive to be lyrical, because life is short, and worthy of the lyre. in that spirit i'll ignore your edge, and the gag about apologising, and gladly apologise myself if i come across as arrogant sometimes. could lyricism possibly be construed as arrogance by itself?

subjects like that are notorious for breeding dissension-through-misunderstanding. gratuitous sniping at each other doesn't feel right here at ET, imho.

aqua passata. over it. no big. long gone. cool breeze. ancient history. wheel turned. form disallowed.

 

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 07:47:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Long may you continue lyrically at ET, melo.

You are one of the gems on this site.

I know rg still lurks: ET is the poorer in the absence of his quirky contributions.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Fri Jul 30th, 2010 at 03:05:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
thankee Chancellor!

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Jul 30th, 2010 at 12:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It takes a special kind of pride to pronounce other people to be better off dead.

I agree with that statement, but I take melo's statement as leaving that decision to those involved. I would like to see the world's population decline slowly or at least stabilize and will take quality of life over quantity of life any day. But I will not support imposing this decision on others. However, I do believe that the net effect of current attitudes and policies are likely to lead to the unnecessary, premature and involuntary deaths of many people over the remainder of this century. That is what I would like to avoid.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 12:33:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
gracias ARG, for clearly understanding the intention behind my words.

i'll the first to admit some of my posts flirt with ambiguity, as i use ET as a place to test out my own thought processes, but on this subject i have pondered long and hard, and took special pains to leave no possible room for equivocation.

hermetism is hard work.

;)  

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 07:57:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Does this mean that keeping all civilization activity on the level that it is now is feasible? There will be no need to downscale, localize? I think it would be more fun to decrease reliance on global supply (and demand) chains.

How much oil goes to air transportation? That consumption looks hard to replace.

by das monde on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 01:35:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
das monde:
How much oil goes to air transportation? That consumption looks hard to replace.

how much air travel is wasteful/frivolous?

hemp-oline?

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 05:35:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Titus:
We also know of cases of capitalistic production (such as Late Mediaeval societies) where capitalistic production was effectively geared towards zero growth.

Was not most of late medieval production guild based?

Maybe we are using different definitions of late medieval, could you give an example of what you refer to?

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Jul 30th, 2010 at 05:29:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Triggered by the Hegel quote.

Context setting: my interest is Epistemology, particularly the "Applied Epistemology" of how and why Knowledge is actually acquired and used and how closely the Knowledge approaches "What-Is."  The more general 'side' of Epistemology: how Knowledge should or could be acquired and used isn't of direct interest.

Stealing and editing from here

Profile of the Sociopath:

    * Glibness and Superficial Charm

    * Manipulative and Conning
      They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

    * Grandiose Sense of Self
      Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

    * Pathological Lying
      Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

    * Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
      A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

    * Shallow Emotions
      When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

    * Incapacity for Love

    * Need for Stimulation
      Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

    * Callousness/Lack of Empathy
      Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

    * Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
      Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

    * Irresponsibility/Unreliability
      Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

    * Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
      Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

    * Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
     Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

This clinical description (taken from DSM - IV) can be grossly sub-qualified:

  1.  Functional: generally and ubiquitously, adequate, 'What-Is' based, psycho-epistemological processing

  2.  Dysfunctional:  generally and ubiquitously, and disruption in normal functioning.  

  3.  Pathological:  an abnormal condition or biological state in which proper functioning is prevented or suppressed

Note: these three "pure" analytical labels are positions on a Fuzzy Logic scale, shading one into the other necessarily, sufficiently, or necessarily and sufficientily.  Also as one runs down the list one should keep in mind there are various degrees of affective and effective modes of a singular characteristic.  Last, I'm excluding from analysis those entities exhibiting the extreme forms of socio-pathology; in this analysis sociopaths are "in the world" if not quite "of the world."

My primary objection to Bichler and Nitzan is their 'lumping' all capitalists into the second and third analytical groups.  Placing the people who run a local Credit Union in the same Class, so to speak, as the people running Chase Manhatten isn't only incorrect, it's ridiculous.  More controversially, Berkshire-Hathaway is not in the same Class as Goldman Sachs.  In both formers the purpose, intent, and praxis places them in the Functional group while the purpose, intent, and praxis of the 'latters' places them in the high side of the Dysfunctional to the Pathological.

Lending money to someone who has no hope of being able to pay it back is NOT the action of a Functional Agent.  As we have concluded countless times.

Imposition of "Austerity" to protect and enhance their own economic well-being at the expense of the vast majority is NOT the action of a Functional Agent.  As we have concluded countless times.

Predatory capitalism, I suggest, is a psycho-epistemological disease - if you will - which does include the Hope/Fear cycle but also other factors restricting analysis only to that cycle ignores.  

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 12:55:24 PM EST
Bichler and Nitzan do not attempt to deal with the personalities and characters of the actors in the capitalist sphere. They do resolve the spectrum into "dominant capital" and the rest and they emphasize the role of "differential accumulation" whereby an individual or a corporation rises in the ranks of relative power in the capitalist hierarchy.

Interestingly, one organization they do discuss is Microsoft, and one individual they discuss is Bill Gates. This is of interest from the point of view of your comment in so much as Bill Gates has been described as possessing characteristics of a high functioning individual on the Autistic Disorder Spectrum, which, it seems, is emerging as, at least in part, a disorder of the mirror neuron network.

It would be a tour de force of forensic psychology to demonstrate that the development of financial capitalism from the second half of the 19th century to the present has been driven by people who, it could be argued, were characterized by some degree of sociopathy and or Autistic Spectrum Disorder. I tend to believe, as TBG often asserts, that this is the case. I would be delighted, if surprised, if you were to have a go at the endeavor.  :-)

But, at the rate things are proceeding, enough people may come to a similar general conclusion that a formal demonstration will be unnecessary. Another big leg down in the markets combined with continued incoherence from the financial and political elites may well suffice.  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 01:23:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ARGeezer:
It would be a tour de force of forensic psychology to demonstrate that the development of financial capitalism from the second half of the 19th century to the present has been driven by people who, it could be argued, were characterized by some degree of sociopathy and or Autistic Spectrum Disorder. I tend to believe, as TBG often asserts, that this is the case. I would be delighted, if surprised, if you were to have a go at the endeavor.  :-)
Dude, Autistic people cannot lie.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 01:30:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But they can hire the best liars available, ones with all the proper degrees.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 01:32:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, they can't, because if you don't have the motivation to lie you don't have the motivation to hire the best liars.

The motivation to lie and the skill to do it are both social (or sociopathic) skills.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 01:39:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Autistic != Sociopathic

Autistic people can do empathy, they just don't do empathy the way that 'normal' people, and they find 'normal' emotional reactions and social requirements baffling and confusing, because they're often rather literal minded.

E.g. when someone says 'How are you?' most people say 'Good' or 'Fine' because the social ritual is really just about opening communication, not about communicating in detail, unless theres something exceptional or unusual happening.

Autistic people may stop to analyse how they actually are, and then take a while in silence to craft a response, which may be quite detailed.

Since the 'How are you?' ritual is formalised and a detailed response breaks the usual rules, normal people find this odd.

Sociopaths can do a kind of predatory empathy very well in ways that autistic people can't. It's not true empathic caring, but sociopaths are exceptionally good at reading and then manipulating others for personal advantage with charm, smoothness and plausibility.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 02:02:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dude, Autistic people cannot lie.
Well, it is a spectrum. The point of my comment was not to equate autism with sociopathy so much as it was to note that we have a business culture in which lack of empathy, for whatever reason, is advantageous. This has not always been the case. It was embedded in Neo-Conservative Economics from the last decades of the 19th century and taught to emerging elites in college. Social tolerance for disregard of other people's feelings by business has been drummed into the general population via purchased media and entertainment vehicles over a century as necessary for the proper functioning of the economy.

In the case of Microsoft, it would have been Balmer or others at high level who saw to the hiring of competent liars. From what I remember, one of the reasons Microsoft settled its anti-trust action with the US Government was the fear that Bill Gates would have to testify and might have told the truth if hit with something for which he had not been prepared.

 

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 03:26:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Except as TBG points out, autistic people can do empathy.

It appears flat expression of emotion does not mean flat emotion either.

I'm still trying to figure out how much of the moniker "post-autistic economics" is descriptive and how much is a misnomer.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 06:04:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lack of empathy is one of the diagnostic criteria for narcissism. Sociopaths are extremely toxic and sadistic hyper-narcissists.

I think 'autistic economics' was a misnomer coined by people who hadn't read DSM properly. (Maybe 'narcissistic economics' had too many syllables and wasn't as catchy?)

Like 'schizophrenia' - there's a difference between the assumed lay meaning and the formal/practical definition.

The Wikipedia article is very comprehensive.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 06:46:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
autistic people can do empathy.

I have known people with what I am relatively certain was ASD who were very good with younger siblings and were very high functioning themselves - on an intellectual level. Yet they still had problems interacting with peers.

I have a relative that has been diagnosed with ASD. Part of the treatment is to minimize the amount of social interaction he requires for academic work. From what I understand some therapies for ASD individuals consists of teaching them to intellectually recognize what their malfunctioning mirror neuron network will not tell them and then learn appropriate responses. They can learn to compensate. It is very lonely to suffer from ASD.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 07:15:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Except as TBG points out, autistic people can do empathy.

If they can "do" empathy they can likely "do" lying, just not convincingly. But that would tend to motivate them to hire a better liar or to defer to other executives who they know to have a better handle on such things.

What I don't understand is what this whole sub-thread has to do with Bichler and Nitzan's thesis, the implications of which are what I found interesting.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 09:12:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you're being a tad Skinnerian here. If empathy cannot be demonstrated convincingly, it doesn't exist.

See, for instance, Asperger's Syndrome and social interaction

The lack of demonstrated empathy is possibly the most dysfunctional aspect of Asperger syndrome. Individuals with AS experience difficulties in basic elements of social interaction, which may include a failure to develop friendships or to seek shared enjoyments or achievements with others (for example, showing others objects of interest), a lack of social or emotional reciprocity, and impaired nonverbal behaviors in areas such as eye contact, facial expression, posture, and gesture.
(my emphasis) Note the distinction between empathy and demonstrated empathy. Further
Unlike those with autism, people with AS are not usually withdrawn around others; they approach others, even if awkwardly. For example, a person with AS may engage in a one-sided, long-winded speech about a favorite topic, while misunderstanding or not recognizing the listener's feelings or reactions, such as a need for privacy or haste to leave.[5] This social awkwardness has been called "active but odd". This failure to react appropriately to social interaction may appear as disregard for other people's feelings, and may come across as insensitive.
May appear, may come across. Implying that, unlike sociopaths, these people do not disregard other people's feelings and are not insensitive. Just don't act out according to the socially sanctioned norm.
However, not all individuals with AS will approach others. Some of them may even display selective mutism, speaking not at all to most people and excessively to specific people. Some may choose to talk only to people they like.

... Childhood desire for companionship can become numbed through a history of failed social encounters.

Gee, considering how mean humans and especially children can be to anyone who is odd, selective mutism and withdrawal are entirely to be expected.
The hypothesis that individuals with AS are predisposed to violent or criminal behavior has been investigated but is not supported by data. More evidence suggests children with AS are victims rather than victimizers.


By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 02:16:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
More evidence suggests children with AS are victims rather than victimizers.

That is my experience and belief.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:18:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is somewhat frightening how many of those symptoms I share. Or, maybe more precisely, used to share to a considerable degree. I believe it is less pronounced now.

Still...

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 05:53:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is the same with me. For different reasons I suspect, but one can never be certain. Plus I suffer from output errors ranging from starting to write words with the middle syllable and having to go back to add the first syllable to being error prone in numerical computations. Concepts have never been the problem, but getting the right answer reliably has been.

In any case, I think that humans are far more complicated and complex than the rather reductionist approaches to understanding ourselves allow. And I think we are far too prone, for a variety of reasons, to approach a situation or an individual by trying to attach a seemingly appropriate label. I suspect that a lot of the development of science and philosophy has been conducted by those who, by current standards, could be placed on the autistic disorder spectrum.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 08:42:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ARGeezer:
What I don't understand is what this whole sub-thread has to do with Bichler and Nitzan's thesis, the implications of which are what I found interesting.
I'm trying to disabuse you of the (apparently rather widespread) notion that people on the Autistic Spectrum are sociopaths.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 06:35:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I never had that notion, however imperfect my understanding of ASD might be. If that was unclear in previous comments I hope it is not now. I have personal experience of the difference.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:28:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In the case of Microsoft, it would have been Balmer or others at high level who saw to the hiring of competent liars.

One of the aspects of large, mature corporations is that placing individual responsibility for individual corporate actions is usually not easy, since every decision goes through multiple planning, ratification, execution, evaluation and re-planning stages, normally handled by different groups of people.

So in the case of large corporations, it is probably more analytically productive to speak of diseased institutional structures than to seek to diagnose individual officers. Although of course a dysfunctional corporate structure will tend to attract psychopaths more than a functioning one, because psychopaths find themselves better able to exercise their power fantasies when there are no countervailing forces to take into consideration.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 07:09:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Um, yes.

When I started my last book, I offered to do the design and layout here, because I can do graphic design and print preflight and I'm picky about aesthetics and layout.

Publisher said no. So the book went through a torturous process of multiple editing, design and layout stages with a cast of at least ten people, including two executives with final sign-off responsibilities on the print PDFs, a production editor, five people doing layout, and a separate full-time QA person.

And the print and layout were a disaster. On paper the images are fuzzy, poorly laid out, too small to read, and some of the vital elements are covered by arrows. It's getting vicious one and two star reviews on Amazon, and I can't honestly say I don't think they're justified. I pointed out the issues before print, and most of my comments were ignored.

I'm not sure if this is simple incompetence and rigidity, or if the production editor - who has now resigned - had some kind of bizarre author-hating need to sabotage the project.

But either way it's so typically corporate that no one in the vast and sprawling hierarchy noticed there was a problem, and that they still don't seem to care because sales remain decent - although presumably lower than they would have been with a professional design.

Bah.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 08:23:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
they still don't seem to care because sales remain decent - although presumably lower than they would have been with a professional design

I couldn't say why you would presume that "professional design" would increase the sale of a manuscript, given evident standards of professionalism and demand for (silly or accurate) technical manuals currently as compared to plug-and-play "connectivity." What I note with interest then is, how sad, how ironic, is this back-hand defense of the artist, someone one can "do graphic design and print preflight build a mechanical" and is "picky about aesthetics and layout."

Fortunate for you that with your prodigious talents  published a website to promote the book properly.

Let us recall though your assurances not so long ago about the "value" of the individual, comprising those attributes of personality that are peculiar to the person and cannot be replicated such as technique, experience, genius, ethic, and "influences," that others perceived in the absolute representation of his or her labors --which is not the object or the product, as one would otherwise suppose, but a relationship. A colon.

Artists don't really produce things. Successful artists - which most artists aren't - are the most obvious nodes in a network of social and cultural relationships.

Most of what they do isn't really individual, and it's hard to compare it to industrial manufacture because what's being produced and cultivated isn't widgets, or even experiences, but social attitudes and values.

[emphasis added] Read more...



Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 02:20:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Process of Coordination

Group Versus Individual Alternatives. The individual views the attainment of his objectives as dependent on the particular course of behavior he follows. For each of the courses of action open to him there is a distinct set of consequences or results.

Let us note this author's description of ethics, the study of choices, stripped of Aristotle's, Kant's, and Hegel's dogmatic preconceptions of "cognitive science".

Rational choice, as has been explained, consists in selecting and bringing about the result that is preferred to the others.

When choice takes place in a group situation, the consequences of a course of action become dependent not only upon the individual's selection of a particular alternative, but upon the selections of the other members of the group as well. Only when the behaviors of the others are taken as "constants" --that is, when expectations are formed regarding their behaviors-- does the problem of choice take on a determinate form. When such expectations have been formed, the only remaing independent variable is the individual's own choice, and the problem of decision reduces to the former case.

Hence, the set of alternatives available to the group must be carefully distinguished from the set of alternatives available to the individual. The latter is only a subset of the former, a different subset for each given set of behaviors of the other members of the group. The alternative that the individual actually selects for his own behavior may be quite distinct from the alternative that he would select if he could determine the behaviors of all the other group members. [emphasis in original]

Authority and the "Last Word"

AIf quthority were evidenced entirely in the acceptance of explicit commands or in the resolution of disagreements, its presence or absence in any relationship could be sought in the presence or absence of these tangible concomitants. But it is equally possible for obedience to anticipate commands. The subordinate may, and is expected to, ask himself "how would by superior wish me to behave under these circumstances?" Under such circumstances, authroity is implemented by a subsequent review of completed actions, rather than a prior command. Further, the more obedient the subordinate, the less tangible will be the evidences of authority. For authority will need to be exercised only to reverse and incorrect decision.

This phenomenon has been pointed out be Friedrich, who calls it a "rule of anticipated reactions." It affords a striking example of the manner in which expectations and anticipations govern human behavior, and the difficulties which result from this for the analysis of human institutions. The difficulty in determining authority relations because of the operation of the rule of anticipated reactions is common to all "power" situations. Any study for instance, of a governor's veto power must take into consideration what bills failed of passage in the legislature because of the anticipation of veto and what bills wer passed for the ver same reason.

Administrative Behavior (1945, 5th ed. 1997) Excerpts above come from the 1945 text. The author's commentary written for the 5th ed. is appended to each chapter of the 1st but not here cited.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 03:07:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The point of my comment was not to equate autism with sociopathy

And to be clear I DO NOT equate the two. I have also had first hand experience of sociopaths and they can be very damaging to others. I have not found that to be the case with ASD.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 10:15:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are standardised clinical tests for sociopathy and psychopathy, so in theory dis/confirming the hypothesis is easy.

In practice it's more difficult, because corporate cultures modifies behaviour, and people who wouldn't act in a sociopathic way towards individuals they know personally may find themselves taking sociopathic actions at work because it's expected, and they'll be punished by loss of job, earnings and/or status if they don't.

I know from anecdotal experience that the bigger and more culty accountancy and banking firms select employees on the basis of displayed aggression, greed and dominance. Conspicuous displays of empathy will reliably eliminate you from employment on Wall St.

So there are three problems. One is that sociopaths and psychopaths can exist without treatment or social limits, at least unless they break the law in some egregious way.

The second is that certain kinds of corporate culture select for these traits and consider them admirable and worth rewarding.

And finally that so far the debate about this problem has always been trivial. You can still find people on dKos who are amazed - and astounded - when they catch republicans and corporate spin people telling bare-faced lies. And then they waste time trying to point out why the lie is a lie.

This is pointless activity, because it can't change morals or behaviour. The debate needs to be moved to questioning why and how these values exist and why they're rewarded instead of punished in the same way that they're punished and considered unacceptable in ordinary criminal law.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 01:38:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your comment touches upon what I have seen and described as "Institutional Incompetence" -- where the nature and structure of an organization causes people who, individually, want to do the right thing and serve the public interest to act in ways that benefit looters because they have no other way to accomplish the objectives with which they have been tasked.

These observations were made in connection with the operation of  the Los Angeles Unified School District's attempts to effectively employ public bond money to renovate existing and build new schools. There were, undoubtedly, those whose goals were to loot the system, but they were not, for the most part, among the elected decision makers, the Board of Education, although top administrators served as enablers through careerism combined with incompetence.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 02:03:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In practice it's more difficult, because corporate cultures modifies behaviour ...

Exactly.  Corporations, like any other Agent, have a group of expected behavior(s) to which it demands conformance.  Non-compliance means termination, meaning the "adverse" Knowledge is prevented.


Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 02:08:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
Conspicuous displays of empathy will reliably eliminate you from employment on Wall St.

or the supreme court! (viz debate about Kagan)

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 12:59:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My interest and knowledge, such as it is, is confined within the narrow range outlined in the Context part.  What I defined as "Pathological" would be "acute to severely dysfunctional" to a psychologist.  

As to the research project, the data is out there, remember that guy who was filmed screaming against financial re-regulation?  If that wasn't epistemic sociopathy I'm a kumquat.  Rush Limbaugh exhibits the same five days a week, three hours a day.  The old Raygun era mantra, "Greed is Good" is another example.

Gathering it all up and putting into a paper requires more time than I can devote.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 01:47:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This reminds me that I must write a piece about litter. It's clear to me that many people regard many of the things they do as 'insignificant' because as an individual, the consequences of a million people doing the same thing, are ignored or unthought. Thus Finns continue to buy plasma tvs because a) they can afford the status such a purchase brings, b) they can afford or have not considered the increased electricity bill and c) they like the picture and they watch 4 hours every day (and the Tv is probably on for many more hours. But plasma tvs are such gorgers on electricity that were every Finnish family to acquire one, the output of a new nuclear reactor would be required.

The tragedy of democracy is we think only of ourselves, not of the millions - not to say billions - of other human beings. But as you can see my thoughts are confused. However your comment is on to something rather important.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 01:47:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
make getting a plasma contingent on installing solar PV?

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 02:03:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well that's not going to get through the Eduskunta ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 04:17:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you.

Back when I was a snot-nosed brat I would annoy my Sociology prof by asking if "Society" would still exist if all the individuals went away.  And there's some Truth, there.  It is equally True that once enough individuals congregate there is a "Society" and that aggregation comprises and entity with some analyzable Properties and Attributes ... dare I add "Rules?"

It is absolutely clear, from bifurcation mathematics, enough individuals doing "the same thing" causes an "force" impacting on "whole."  However all the words in the quote marks are defined.  The problem is a whacking lack of awareness of this by the majority of people.  I'd like to be able to say this can be overcome by education, sadly that doesn't appear to be the case -- even in Scandinavia where the local culture places a higher value on The Group than is the norm in Anglo-Saxon culture.


Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 02:17:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And yet most of the 'rules' (in your context) are unwritten - imposed or infused by the aggregated culture of the society in which they operate. And it's the unwritten ones (the non-governmental ones) that have enormous influence on the 'direction' of a society - though they are difficult to analyze. These unwritten rules have, in the past, changed imperceptibly over time.

These changes have been accelerated over the last decade particularly by ubiquitous media that display behaviour in all its weird and wonderfulness. Now, changes have become perceptible. How this will change perceptions of the 'rules', I'm not sure.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 02:56:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
These changes have been accelerated over the last decade particularly by ubiquitous media that display behaviour in all its weird and wonderfulness. Now, changes have become perceptible. How this will change perceptions of the 'rules', I'm not sure.

I would guess that this is another of the Time Transformers the authors discuss towards the end of my dairy. The net effect of these Time Transformers is to accelerate the rate at which perceived failures in the dominant paradigm translate into system failure. Nothing like having the socially dysfunctional consequences of business and office culture driven home to the public in a prime time comedy aided by social media.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 03:09:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yet 'social behaviour' is becoming less predictable as the unwrittten rules become more complex by changing at different speeds within the strata of society. Our predictableness is one contributing factor to how we are able to be controlled.

Capital has (broad sweep) always depended on predictable risk. That depends on good information about what might happen to affect any investment. Education and living in a culture of privilege certainly make that information easier to acquire. Education and privilege make you an 'insider'. You know someone who knows a stable lad for a nag in the 14.30 at Towcester. With information you can beat the odds.

So there might be some optimism in the supposition that, as social behaviour becomes more complex (more '3-dimensional or non-linear) and more fragile, and thus less predictable, the opportunities for Capital to exploit society, or any sector of it, become fewer.

The Man from Lyon always claims I am misquoting him, but he gave me a fantastic insight when we were discussing self-organizing systems: that any managed organization has a Control and a Process - managed productivity. The Control must be as complex as the Process in order to be able to control it. With linear industrial systems - resources in one end, resources processed, product comes out the other end - management doesn't need to be very complex. But once you have non-linear organizations they become structurally complex and are always in flux. A company like Nokia grew up as non-linear, with its current troubles - I think - due to flirting with the linear imposition management style of the US.

What happens when you apply more complexity to Control, to be able to handle the 3-Dness of the process, is that you need more metrics of the organization, and then more people to analyze the metrics, and more people to report the metrics etc etc. And then you get the UK National Health Service or any other unmanageable bureaucracy.

The (cost-effective) alternative is to sublimate some control (autonomy, if you will) into the Process. This seems to me to be an unalterable trend...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 03:43:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Speaking of rules (in Finnish): Israelista löydettiin muinaisen lakitekstin katkelmia (Snippets of ancient legal text found in Israel)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 05:27:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Speaking of rules (in Finnish)

In Finnish? So the Palestinians were speaking Finnish back then? (reference to one of the most stupid, and that's saying something, bits of right-wing Israeli propaganda).

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 01:59:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Finnish word for sun - Aurinko- appears to come from Akkadian.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 02:43:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You don't need more metrics. There's actually very little difference in the current theoretical aims of the NHS and the aims of the NHS fifty years ago.

What's been added are multiple layers of management nonsense which make it impossible to fulfill those aims, and which in some cases are explicitly corrupt and self serving.

The bottom line is motivation. If an organisation is motivated towards high quality of service, high quality of service will happen and metrics aren't needed.

If it's motivated by personal profit, egotism, greed, and turf wars, disasters are inevitable and metrics won't help.

The problem with so much business bollocks is that it's designed to create an illusion of service-oriented culture while secretly and dishonestly promoting its dysfunctional opposite.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 07:02:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
designed to create an illusion of service-oriented culture while secretly and dishonestly promoting its dysfunctional opposite.

primo synopsis, covers the whole waterfront really.

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 08:20:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A prime example of what Veblen would, in a business context, call the infliction of strategic damage on a competitor.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 26th, 2010 at 09:14:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
here's a great paraphrase of what TBG quoth:

David Foster Wallace - Wikiquote

n ad that pretends to be art is -- at absolute best -- like somebody who smiles warmly at you only because he wants something from you. This is dishonest, but what's sinister is the cumulative effect that such dishonesty has on us: since it offers a perfect facsimile or simulacrum of goodwill without goodwill's real spirit, it messes with our heads and eventually starts upping our defenses even in cases of genuine smiles and real art and true goodwill. It makes us feel confused and lonely and impotent and angry and scared. It causes despair.

ping, meet pong!

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 08:59:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This would seem to validate the basic theory behind the conversations I recently described with the hedge fund managers back in 2006. They'd lost faith in the future, citing peak oil as one of the factors (along with their analysis of the broader capitalist economy), so their reaction was to become pirates and plunder the remnants of the 20th century economy as best they could while the opportunity remained.

What the authors describe is basically something like what we saw at the end of the Roman Empire. The Roman system (whether you want to call it "capitalist" or not is another question) came apart as its financial system began to fail. The result was a scramble by the wealthy to secure their own position and prevent uprisings by binding the lower classes to the land, creating a servile class that the wealthy could not only not fear (as much) but could extract profits and security from, in order to hold their position against other wealthy folks as central authority steadily collapsed.

The result was feudalism. And it's a worldview characterized by a belief that the present is permanent, that tomorrow will look like today. Hierarchies are therefore immutable and everlasting, even natural. Change comes not in the present but in the afterlife. It's just the way it is. Things never change. Sure, one lord might conquer the other, but it wasn't any alteration of the basic situation.

I've felt for several years now that the global elites are making their own bid for feudalism. It's a logical move. If the future doesn't exist in the capitalist sense - if you can't believe in future profits, and fear the death of the present system - then your goal is to freeze the present power and economic arrangements in place so your dominant position isn't lost. Making tomorrow look like today suits Goldman Sachs just fine - extract rents from the masses, who are denied the power to change the situation, and at least you remain on top.

That doesn't necessarily mean everything freezes into place overnight. Peak oil and the collapse of 20th century civilization will obviously mean things will be bumpy for some time. But if the elite can hang on and dominate the process, eventually they'll still be on top when things stabilize in their favor. They'll innovate solutions that deal with peak oil but in a way that maintains their rentier position and doesn't enable the masses to escape it.

In fact, if you tear up roads as is happening in the US, you can stop population mobility, make peak oil less relevant (do you need as much oil if you don't have paved roads?), and ensure you do have the power of mobility for yourself, again securing your own long-term position atop a new hierarchy.

The only alternative to this is some sort of socialism. If finance is to be a part of it, it'd have to look like what Chris Cook proposes - peer to peer, free of the domination of large, wealthy elites and their institutions. But time is running short - I'd prefer not to have to turn to a peasant jacquerie to deal with this situation.

And the world will live as one

by Montereyan (robert at calitics dot com) on Tue Jul 27th, 2010 at 08:08:05 PM EST
Great post.

But every day that goes by increases my belief that the rentiers and the State will be - indeed, are being, cf the creative industries - routed around by direct instantaneous connections, in a process which may be facilitated through consensual agreements.

It will start - IMHO it actually HAS started eg mobile payments - in the third world, in places like Africa, India, Bangladesh, Latin America, because these places have little or none of the infrastructure and barriers to entry which hold the rest of us back.

If you have nothing, then you have nothing to lose.

I think the future lies in a new synthesis of radical liberalism -and the sovereignty of the individual - with mutualism based on the recognition that the rights and privileges derived from the 'rule of law' come with obligations to the society which confers them.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 11:54:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One of the problems with orthodox economics is that it not only ignores Maslow's hierarchy of needs - it is in active denial of it. I see some of the same problems with your vision of a networked service economy.

In order to have networks, you must have infrastructure. In order to have infrastructure, you must have industrial capacity. In order to have industrial capacity, you must have a reasonably centralised government - either in the form of a sovereign or in the form of private (in this day and age typically corporate) governments.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 12:58:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I'd largely ignore Maslow's hierarchy of needs as well. Did I ever write that diary?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 01:09:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
JakeS:
In order to have industrial capacity, you must have a reasonably centralised government - either in the form of a sovereign or in the form of private (in this day and age typically corporate) governments.

I don't think that follows - not in a networked society anyway.

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 01:41:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Monterian: For a different take on the subject of the conversations you had with hedge fund managers see this from Jim Rickards on King Radio, via Zero Hedge.

In the latest two-part interview with Jim Rickards by Eric King, the former LTCM General Counsel goes on a lengthy compare and contrast between the Roman Empire (and especially the critical part where it collapses) and the U.S. in it current form. And while we say contrast, there are few actual contrasts to observe: alas, the similarities are just far too many, starting with the debasement of the currencies, whereby Rome's silver dinarius started out pure and eventually barely had a 5% content, and the ever increasing taxation of the population, and especially the most productive segment - the farmers, by the emperors, to the point where the downfall of empire was actually greeted by the bulk of the people as the barbarians were welcomed at the gate with open arms. The one key difference highlighted by Rickards: that Rome was not as indebted to the gills as is the US. Accordingly, the US is in fact in a far worse shape than Rome, as the ever increasing cost of funding the debt can only come from further currency debasement, which in turn merely stimulates greater taxation, and more printing of debt, accelerating the downward loop of social disintegration. Furthermore, Rickards points out that unlike the Romans, we are way beyond the point of diminishing marginal utility, and the amount of money that must be printed, borrowed, taxed and spent for marginal improvements in the way of life, from a sociological standpoint, is exponentially greater than those during Roman times. As such, once the collapse begins it will feed on itself until America is no more. Rickards believes that this particular moment may not be too far off...

The audio of the two part interview is available here,  (PT.1) and here, (PT2).

I certainly do not endorse many of his views, especially about taxes, which, unsurprisingly, are most congenial to the prejudices of very wealthy, but he does have many good points. Much of the harm he sees as being due to "out of control" government I see as being done in the interest of various elements of the very wealthy by a government which they have largely captured and can effectively direct. But he can hardly be expected to take ownership of that if he wants to continue to be A SERIOUS FUND MANAGER.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 12:08:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Uhhh, I posted the second link above before listening. The religious orientation of King World News definitely comes out, and while Richard defends freedom of religion his conservative orientation comes through. Not for those with a low gag threshold.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 12:31:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is unmitigated pseudo-intellectual crap.

The Roman Empire "fell" from a combination of many causes and factors with the "debasement" of the coinage as a dependent feedback influence.

Way more important were the population decrease from pandemic diseases (measles and smallpox?) during the Third Century, the rejection of science and technology, and the economic stagnation of the Western Empire.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 11:30:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The assertion of the abandonment of cultivatable land and the impoverishment of the farmers is quite similar to what Robert Young described in the 1780s in France. He described the peasantry as so impoverished that they were barely recognizable as human and was shocked at the comparison with England, which was certainly no rural paradise at the time.

I would like to know what economic history of Rome he was reading. The overall description of the situation he gave is consistent with what I had learned about the late Roman Empire, but I do not recall the putative role of taxation in the process. As I said I see some similarities between what he described and what the financial sector is doing to the rest of the economy today. What he will not acknowledge is that the deleterious actions of government are all too often undertaken at the behest of the looters. Many of his clients are likely from the stratum just below the successful looters and identify with them.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 12:49:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The destruction of the small to medium sized Roman landholder-farmer and the consolidation of most of the Italian peninsula under control of aristocrats with influence in Rome was noted as a serious factor undercutting the ability of Rome to raise loyal legions from the homeland. And the fact that expansion stopped when Rome ran out of relatively well off neighbors it could loot and pillage at a profit were also factors.

One of the factors leading Constantine to decamp to the east and move the capitol to what became Constantinople was that the east was richer, had a higher population density and did not have the intractable Roman aristocracy which made Rome and the old core of the empire increasingly ungovernable. Substitute Roman aristocracy with US financial sector and there we are.  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 01:30:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd replace the financial sector with the American Aristocracy - the 1% of hyper-rich families who spend their time 'investing' and buying themselves coin-operated senators in Washington.

The financial sector exists to enable and flatter them, but they lead and manage it.

As for Rome - it's been suggested that extended futile campaigns in Persia/Parthia (now Iran/Afghanistan) badly damaged the empire and eventually destroyed it.

Roman-Persian Wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Roman-Persian Wars have been characterized as "futile" and both too "depressing and tedious to contemplate".[114] Prophetically, Cassius Dio noted their "never-ending cycle of armed confrontations" and observed that "it is shown by the facts themselves that [Severus'] conquest has been a source of constant wars and great expense to us. For it yields very little and uses up vast sums; and now that we have reached out to peoples who are neighbor of the Medes and the Parthians rather than of ourselves, we are always, one might say, fighting the battles of those peoples."[115] In the long series of wars between the two powers, the frontier in upper Mesopotamia remained more or less constant. Historians point out that the stability of the frontier over the centuries is remarkable, although Nisibis, Singara, Dara and other cities of upper Mesopotamia changed hands from time to time, and the possession of these frontier cities gave one empire a trade advantage over the other. As Frye states:[111]

And also

Both sides attempted to justify their respective military goals in both active and reactive ways. The Roman quest for world domination was accompanied by a sense of mission and pride in Western civilization, and by ambitions to become a guarantor of peace and order. Roman sources reveal long-standing prejudices with regard to the Eastern powers' customs, religious structures, languages and forms of government.

Of course the Wiki writer might have a finely tuned sense of historical irony.

But still.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 02:04:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you saying Bush the lesser was just continuing a 3000-year old mistake?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 03:40:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, judging by Smith's description of the operation of Scottish banks in Wealth of Nations, Wall Street has been repeating a two hundred years old mistake. So why not?

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 03:44:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's Conservatives for you.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 04:46:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"a 3000-year old mistake?"

More like a 2000-year old mistake. Rome was quite happy to leave the east alone until Alexander and his generals were long dead.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 05:30:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Persia has been "the fifth empire" or "the middle empire for over 2500 years and looks likely to continue in that role under up to date labels. The whole region and time is succinctly described by Garth Fowden in EMPIRE TO COMMONWEALTH Consequences of monotheism in late antiquity Princeton, 1993 I should read it again.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 05:27:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd replace the financial sector with the American Aristocracy - the 1% of hyper-rich families...

It is that top 0.5% or so I am thinking of as well, the point where the wealth distribution curve goes vertical. Being a top executive at one of the major financial corporations will put you into that group if you were'nt born into it. Those with a net worth >$100,000,000.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 at 09:38:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The assertion of the abandonment of cultivatable land ...
.  

Land in the Western Empire was abandoned because the cultivators were dead.  The economy, thus taxation receipts, dwindled because two pandemics in the 300s killed tens of millions and dead people neither buy nor make stuff.  The army couldn't get the required number of recruits because they didn't exist: dead people don't have kids.  & so on & so forth.

This shit gets Real Simple, after a while.  :-)

I would like to know what economic history of Rome he was reading.

Doubt he's read anything since leaving Middle School.  Certainly he is unaware of the findings of the last 20 years of scholarship.  That's something I've noticed about Conservatives in general and Fundies - of all kinds - in particular: they stop learning.  It seems the entire Sum of Human Knowledge is acquired by the age of twenty-two'ish and the rest of one's life is spent dispensing said Knowledge to the Unwashed Heathens.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Fri Jul 30th, 2010 at 11:44:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
According to Wm. H. McNeil in Plagues and Peoples the Antonine plague of 160-185 and a subsequent plague under Diocletion from 251-266, likely the first irruptions of smallpox and measles in the European portions of the Roman Empire were major contributors to the initial decline of the Western Empire. They decimated the urban Romanized populations that had been collecting rents that supported Rome and the military. Rome had trouble paying the garrisons and legions and many took to extracting payment for themselves, which resulted in civil disturbances which, in turn, furthered the spread of disease and increased depopulation.

Populations seriously reduced by disease were unable to provide taxes or tribute at former levels and the urban elites who had performed this service for the empire, the curiales were destroyed in the civil disturbances that followed and replaced by more rural elites. Agreements to allow barbarians to settle within the Empire in return for military services began to be made in the latter part of the second century C.E. Civil disturbances and barbarian invasions starting in 235 spread destruction through the interior of the Empire and there was famine. Under Diocletian, 285-308, laws were promulgated that bound farmers to the land and tradesmen to their trades, largely because the empire became concerned with insuring the availability of people to perform vital functions.

I agree that these developments were far more damaging than debasement of the coinage, which itself could have partly been due to the disruption of trade making the availability of silver more acute. It would have been a bold merchant who, under those conditions, would have refused to accept a suspect coin bearing the emperors image from a soldier. But he would likely try to give as little in return for said coin as possible. The most basic test of a currency is that it is accepted and can be used to pay taxes. I am unaware of any Emperor refusing to accept payment in the form of his own coins.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Jul 30th, 2010 at 04:28:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At the same time there was a flow of gold from the Roman Empire to the Chinese Empire to pay for silk imports, to the Malabar Coast for pepper, and Southeast Asia for spices.  

How that affected the coin supply and value is a mystery.  

To me.

In the fifth century the heavy Chinese-made clothing and cloth was taken apart and rewoven to make the see-through light-weight garments preferred by the Roman upper classes -- adding value, as it were.  I don't know if this was done earlier, I suspect so but that's not something the Roman writers of the time would have noted.  And it's only in the last 20 years, or so, modern historians have sloughed-off their preconceptions and started digging - literally, in some cases - past the surviving texts.  

What they are finding is a more varied and complex economy than had been presented in the ancient texts and the findings based, solely, on those texts.  

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Aug 1st, 2010 at 10:31:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Assuming that it works roughly the same way it did for silver a thousand years later, I would expect a deflationary effect that was counteracted by diluting the metal content in the coinage (the much-decried debasing of the currency).

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Aug 1st, 2010 at 01:03:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What do you do when you earn more money than what anyone could explain to kids?

A player of LA Clippers team is entertaining the West Michigan with fireworks:

by das monde on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 03:34:56 AM EST
wow.. another amazing diary..

I think I just can give  my humble opinion and some data.

I talked with people in the renewable business. there is no doubt that a general transformation will happen the moment oil gets too expensive. the technologies are completely mature in wind.. and surprise.. the technology in solar is completely mature, just expensive.

There is no doubt that a world of 9 billion people can live in  utopia with high equality...
The only "but" for the future of civilization is food in case of a catastrophic global warming. It can certainly collapse.  So , our first goal would be to push for this transition to happen as soon as possible, or to pray that the oil quickly becomes more difficult to extract (or that demand in China and India makes its price go high in the sky).

A very different question, however , is how the distribution of wealth will evolve. In the framework the authors of this paper propose , which I call the "panic scneario", most of the financial world collapses...they do not adapt to a deflation-slow growth economy, do not keep their head cool and do not have any idea about to do but panic...well my answer to that is the same answer that Chris or  Steve keen would give.. it will be tough, but at the end of the day the bank is a place who two people trust to change money from one account to the other. And the state or some individual, or more probably, the cooler more smart banks would use to become the new kings of the block... those which did not expected higher growth but just wanted to be a good bank. So I do not see a collapse in the capitalist system.. but a complete retooling of the money generation/lending/debt structure.

So, the key question as always, is how the wealth will be distributed... and this depends on the narrative which emerges triunfant and some basic economic limits. The only economic limit which prevents a neofeudal scenario is the huge quantity of infrastructure and keep-up-to-date work which the "invention of the invention" requires.. plus the huge amount of work that just keeping the present "invention" requires. So unequality can only be as large as in 70/80 South American countries. This is,supposing that you do not have an agricultural base society like central America...there you have feudalism right now.. but in that case civilization has collapsed (or we all become Honduras)

So... will Europe be like Brazil in the 80's or not? I am with Migeru here: Europe can indeed become like Brazil in the 80's with a huge rentier structure, destroyed by a (even) small(er) uber.rich sect which call all the shots, mass unemployment, muslim hunts... and all because the elites do not know anything else but a stupid neo-classical religion and act only on their short term profit.

A different option is that we all become Finland..using the energetic transformation as the Second World War of the 21st century with only the "cooler heads" banks giving the lending....

Unfortunately it seems that Wolf, Krugman and co are losing the narrative battle...mass unemployment and 0.1 % inflation is fine for the rentiers.. we will see what happens if deflation really sets in.. dictature, witch hunts? or creating debt and debt and inflation and inflation...scaring and printing scaring and printing?

A final note.. Steve Keen and Brad DeLong have completely different ideas about what is really going on in the economy.. or at last it seems.. I would love a debate among them..or someone could explain to me why one thinks the crisis is debt related and the other thinks that it is because of an excess in demand of AAA+++ self-rated stuff to park the money until the eternity and not lose value...People with debt pay down debt, they do not look for AAA+++ rated stuff. Methinks

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Jul 28th, 2010 at 06:01:02 PM EST


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