European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

Oh - Uh - Now offshore wind farms destroy seals!!

by Jerome a Paris
Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 04:04:01 AM EST

Or so says the blaring headline in the Daily Hate:

Wind farm clue to horrific 'corkscrew' seal deaths
Experts probing the so-called 'corkscrew deaths' of seals on Britain's East Coast believe the building of a huge offshore wind farm could be to blame.
The corpses of 50 seals with a clean 'corkscrew' cut running from head to tail have been washed up over the past 18 months.

Ouch. That's really bad, right? Evil, evil windfarms.

Except that the very same article (but deep down below) says this:

Dr David Thompson of the seal mammal research unit in St Andrews said: 'We don't think the deaths are being caused by wind farms per se - but there may be a link with the traffic associated with them.
'The wound looks as if the animal is being hit with something with a right-angled edge, but the animal is then rotating against that blade. 'We think it's probably a ducted propeller device.'

So, it's not the wind farms, but it might be the boats that go to and forth to the wind farm. But wait:

"Both Scira and the police have checked all equipment on vessels operating at the site and found no connection," said Scira in a statement yesterday.
Meanwhile, harbour operator Wells Harbour Commissioners (WHC) issued a statement arguing that the boats accused of causing the injuries could not have been responsible.
"These seals began to be found in December 2009 but the fast supply boats using Wells to service the wind farm did not start operating from Wells until April 2010," the company said. "It is therefore entirely wrong to assume that the works to create the new Outer Harbour in Wells are coincident with these seal deaths."

But why bother with facts when you can get a catchy headline and continue your ideological war against all things (vaguely) hippie!

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Oh - Uh - Now offshore wind farms destroy seals!! | 59 comments (59 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

There's a rather scary picture (4.00 / 2)

of a seal slashed by whateve it is that kills them in the DM article. I've hesitated about luridly putting it on the front page too, but relented.

You can see it here ;)

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 04:06:18 AM EST

Re: There's a rather scary picture (none / 1)

Isn't "Daily Fail" the official nickname?
Although Daily Hate will do too...

UnCommon Sense: Citizen Gove

Citizen Gove, almost certainly aided by his chums in the Daily Fail, The Torygraph, the Scum and the Daily Excess

h/t Helen

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 05:49:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There's a rather scary picture (none / 1)

I'm partial to 'Daily Heil' myself...

-- #include witty_sig.h

by silburnl on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 05:54:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

To be expected (none / 0)

The author's name is Tim Bugger; says it all.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 06:37:32 AM EST

Re: Oh - Uh - Now offshore wind farms destroy (4.00 / 4)

Wind Farms Kill Oil & Coal Company Profits!

Wait - was that too obvious, do you think?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 09:01:40 AM EST

speaking of which (4.00 / 4)

Exclusive: Will wind farms pick up the tab for new nuclear?
Wind farm operators could see their overheads increase by millions of pounds a year as a direct result of plans to upgrade and reinforce the grid to cope with a new fleet of nuclear reactors.
(...)
National Grid released a consultation document in June detailing how the proposed development of six nuclear power stations would require the grid operator to increase the amount of backup power, known as "spinning reserve", that it has available to call on in the event of a large power plant failing, from 1,320MW to 1,800MW.
The company estimated that as a result, the annual cost of providing so-called Large Loss Response will rise from £160m a year to £319m.
The consultation looked at a number of approaches to charging energy firms to cover the increased cost, but in a letter to Ofgem National Grid commercial director for transmission Alison Kay said the company had decided to retain the current regime, whereby generators are charged an equal amount per megawatt they provide to the grid.
Wind farm operators are known to be furious at the decision, which they claim will see them face an unfair doubling in charges from National Grid, despite the fact the company concluded in its consultation that generators with less than 350MW of capacity, including all operational wind farms in the UK, "pose no additional loss risk to the system".
In contrast, nuclear developers, who argued that targeting the increased charges at larger power plants would jeopardise plans for a new fleet of reactors, are delighted at a decision that will see the increased cost of backup spread right across the energy industry.

Funny how wind is always blamed for supposedly having high backup requirements, and... it would appear to be not quite the exact truth...

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 10:43:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: speaking of which (none / 0)

But obtaining this kind of result is exactly what the dirty campaign against wind is all about.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 12:28:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

there's a couille in the url (none / 0)

double hh :
hhttp://www.businessgreen.com/articles/print/2268599

by eurogreen on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 01:30:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Now offshore wind farms destroy seals!! (1.00 / 2)

Maybe without good reason, I came to associate wind power enthusiasts with the "green movement," in turn with protecting the environment and that includes all of nature and the animals we share this planet with.

Whatever the cause of these seal deaths, it deserves more concern than a "we didn't do it" so good-bye you idiots. Look elsewhere. And it certainly deserves more respect of people who are concerned about preserving our natural environment, including those who hypothesize the possible involvement of boat traffic to and from wind turbines located in the sea.

by shergald on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 11:03:34 AM EST

huh? (4.00 / 4)

Whatever the cause of these seal deaths, it deserves more concern than a "we didn't do it" so good-bye you idiots. Look elsewhere. And it certainly deserves more respect of people who are concerned about preserving our natural environment, including those who hypothesize the possible involvement of boat traffic to and from wind turbines located in the sea.

Did you even read the articles I linked to before starting to lash out at people blindly?

Both the wind farm owners and the harbour authorities are cooperating closely with the investigations, and they have provided hard data. Where's the lack of respect?

On the other hand, the original Daily Mail article showed a healthy disrespect for facts.

What's wrong with you?

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 11:12:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: huh? (none / 1)

And what's wrong with you? Didn't you read what you wrote.

Or so says the blaring headline in the Daily Hate:
Ouch. That's really bad, right? Evil, evil windfarms.
Except that the very same article (but deep down below) says this:
So, it's not the wind farms, but it might be the boats that go to and forth to the wind farm. But wait:
But why bother with facts when you can get a catchy headline and continue your ideological war against all things (vaguely) hippie!

Okay, misread the last line. So you like hippies. Right? Mea culpa.

by shergald on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 11:56:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: huh? (4.00 / 2)

Do you realise you're making no sense at all?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 11:59:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: huh? (1.00 / 4)

Jake recommended your comment.

My comments are sometimes that subtle.

Nothing I've read excludes the possible contribution of boat traffic to and from the wind turbines in maiming and killing seals, even though other boats made have been involved earlier.

And yes, environmentalism is a "hippie" advocacy. Are there such critters still around?

by shergald on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 12:49:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: huh? (none / 0)

This obsession you have with my person (even to the point of invoking me in threads I did not even read, let alone participate in, until a while after you crashed and burned so hard that comments were closed) is becoming vaguely creepy.

Cut it out, will you?

- Jake

Our way of life is a lot more negotiable than the laws of nature.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 01:06:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: huh? (none / 1)

Jake, that's no problem. However, I do believe that the obsession was in the other direction, if your memory still serves you.

by shergald on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 01:13:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: huh? (4.00 / 2)

I'll let the readers judge that for themselves. You only managed to disappear one thread down the memory hole, so the paper trail is mostly there for people to follow, should they have that inclination.

- Jake

Our way of life is a lot more negotiable than the laws of nature.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 04:26:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Grrrr (none / 0)

Nothing I've read excludes the possible contribution of boat traffic to and from the wind turbines in maiming and killing seals, even though other boats made have been involved earlier.

What did you read exactly? This was posted downthread:

Scira takes the seal deaths very seriously and is as eager for the cause to be identified as the police and local community. Since July, when there was a sudden increase in the number of seal carcasses washing ashore, significant assistance and support has been provided to the police and this will continue for as long as needed.
This support has included offshore visits to all vessels working on the project with inspections of any propellers or other mechanical equipment; provision of Automatic Identification System (AIS) data and other vessel movements/log books; provision of specifications of all vessels; interviews and meetings with staff and contractors.

The serious efforts put into this by the companies which are carelessly accused disprove your successive claims that (i) they don't care and (ii) we still don't know it's not their fault. There is no indication, after a serious effort in investigating the relevant vessels, that they might be involved.

I'm not sure what your point is, beyond some kind of stupid purity trollishness. Oh wait, that would be completely out of character.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 05:58:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (none / 1)

Maybe it would have helped to include that passage in your post as it is an extremely important point, showing compassion for life out in the sea. Instead, your shown text seems more preoccupied with defending the wind turbine corporations from culpability. Well, that's to be expected from a wind turbine entrepreneur.

And your point I gather is that you couldn't understand that you were looking like more like a wind turbine entrepreneur defending the company than a caring environmentalist.

You must certainly think people are stupid for not picking that up!

by shergald on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 07:48:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Again (none / 1)

The post includes this:

Both Scira and the police have checked all equipment on vessels operating at the site and found no connection

investigations were conducted
they were run by the company and by authorities
they were thorough
they found nothing

I have no idea what you're trying to do but you're not helping whatever cause you think you're defending by being so obtuse and bad faith.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 04:27:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Again (none / 0)

You disparaged critics who suggested that the boat traffic to and from the wind turbines may be responsible for the seal deaths.

Coupled with a defense of the company servicing the turbines, that was unnecessary. Likewise, insulting commenters is what is trollish, not their criticisms.

by shergald on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 10:44:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Again (none / 1)

The Daily Fail aren't "critics." They're paid liars.

There's a difference.

- Jake

Our way of life is a lot more negotiable than the laws of nature.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 10:51:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Again (none / 1)

Heh. This is bizarre. Would you defend Jerusalem Post pundits ridiculed for blasting peace activists on boats as terrorist-lovers in similar ways?...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 12:18:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And (none / 1)

I'm not a "wind entrepreneur." I make money if I can get banks to lend to projects, whichi means that I must prove that wind farms do not present risks to the banks that would lend to them. Damage to seals or other environmental impacts are definitely risks that banks do not want to take and do not take, so making sure such a problem is (i) found out and (ii) resolved is part of my job.

But it's so easy to throw cheap accusations and basically saying that I'm corrupt.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 04:30:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (none / 0)

Saying that you are (really, appear to be) a wind turbine entrepreneur is not an insult; I am all for substitute forms of energy that reduce carbon emissions. What I did not like was your attack on environmentalists, who questioned the source of seal deaths off the coast.

by shergald on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 10:51:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And (4.00 / 3)

It was not an "attack on environmentalists", but the deconstruction of a Daily Mail agenda-driven, shoddy article. But you know that very well.

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 11:03:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (none / 0)

Now, you(re really trolling. Ad hominem are not accepted here, do you know?

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 04:43:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (none / 0)

Is this ad hominem accusation thrown at Jerome or me?

Don't bother responding. This interaction has gone on long enough.

by shergald on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 10:46:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (none / 0)

shergald:

Is this ad hominem accusation thrown at Jerome or me?

At you, indeed.

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 11:05:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (none / 0)

Since Jerome acknowledged that seal deaths by boats traveling to and from the sea-based wind turbines is an issue that would concern banks lending to wind turbine companies, it is hardly an ad hominem attack on him to suggest that he might retain biases against critics, who make the accusation. That was my point.

Apparently turbine operators are aware of the sensitivity of the issue, and it is one that they are addressing. The role of the Daily Mail or Fail in the matter is positive because they are making it an issue for these companies to address. At least the seal deaths are unintentional if there is some culpability here, unlike the annual seal pup decimation in Canada, where nobody gives a damn, except the environmentalists and upper class numbskulls who can't do without a baby seal wintercoat.

by shergald on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 11:45:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (4.00 / 3)

The role of the Daily Mail or Fail in the matter is positive because they are making it an issue for these companies to address.

In the generally accepted view of modern physics, cause is thought to usually precede effect.

In this particular case, the postulated effect of the Fail's smears, namely attention from the relevant companies, appears to precede the postulated cause. Specifically:

"Both Scira and the police have checked all equipment on vessels operating at the site and found no connection," said Scira in a statement yesterday.

Additionally, it would appear that the effect that the Fail postulates also precedes the cause that it postulates:

"These seals began to be found in December 2009 but the fast supply boats using Wells to service the wind farm did not start operating from Wells until April 2010," the company said. "It is therefore entirely wrong to assume that the works to create the new Outer Harbour in Wells are coincident with these seal deaths."

- Jake

Our way of life is a lot more negotiable than the laws of nature.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 12:54:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (4.00 / 3)

This commenter should be ignored.

If he/she was actually interested in finding out the relationship between environmentalists and the industry, some research might have been in order for the commenter. Who might have discovered the more than a hundred million € (educated guess) already spent on offshore environmental issues using independent researchers to document all manner of effects of wind at sea. And then mitigate.

The industry is so vast there are always exceptions (and some errors), but since the first eagle and first human were killed by turbines, the industry has always been completely above board in addressing environmental complaints.

That many complaints were used by the antis, funded by the usual suspects of big energy, to make wind seem un-environmental is also well-documented. That many environmental complaints were non-existent, or minimal, is often ignored in the media brouhaha.

Shergald is far over the line here, both in content and method.

Professionally speaking: Should there be any new evidence that some in the industry were the cause of the seal maulings, the industry's track record would say it would immediately move to change methods. Period.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 01:25:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (none / 0)

There are two problems here whose solutions are not incompatible, given that the players are willing to cooperate. One is to continue replacing carbon based energy sources with wind power, and the other is, protecting the environment, in this case, wildlife from the effects of this transition.

Is there are problem with these objectives?

It came to notice that seals might be imperiled by boats building and servicing the wind turbines.

Resolve it.

by shergald on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 01:09:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (4.00 / 2)

It was resolved. Get on with it.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 01:15:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (4.00 / 5)

Gosh, let's hope boats heading for Gaza don't corkscrew seals.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 03:43:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (4.00 / 2)

afew:

let's hope boats heading for Gaza don't corkscrew seals

There is no proof they aren't...

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 04:34:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you're funny (none / 0)

It came to notice that seals might be imperiled by boats building and servicing the wind turbines.

It came to notice that seals were killed.
Someone accused wind farms.
Investigations proved this was not the case
Those now propagating such imperilment - like yourself - are bad faith liars.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 04:35:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're funny (none / 0)

It seems as if people here are not able to let this issue go. So be it. Until the cause if found, everything is suspect.

Clue to mysterious 'corkscrew' seal deaths
BBC

A researcher stationed on a small Canadian island said she may have solved the mystery deaths of about 50 seals washed up along the UK's coast.
Experts were left baffled by the cause of the carcasses left with a single, smooth-edged cut that spiralled around the body.
Zoe Lucas who works on Sable Island said she had conducted an eight-year study of "corkscrew" seal injuries.
She claimed the Greenland Shark was capable of inflicting such wounds.
However, scientists at the Sea Mammal Research Unit (SMRU) at the University of St Andrews have ruled out the possibility of the deaths being caused by sharks.
Scotland's Environment Secretary Richard Lochhead asked the seal unit to investigate the cause of the injuries, seen in the coastal areas around Norfolk and the Tay and Forth estuaries.
"The reason you get the corkscrew is because it's quite likely that the tear itself just runs along the line of least resistance"
It has said the most likely cause was seals getting sucked into a ducted boat propeller - used on vessels that need to move slowly or remain stationary.
Canadian researcher Ms Lucas told the BBC Scotland news website that the same seal injuries were seen on Sable Island, which is a highly restricted area.
She said: "There are no ships operating close to the beach. Here on Sable Island we can actually pin it down to a marine predator."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11062330

by shergald on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 10:11:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're funny (none / 0)

More....

Scottish scientists probe deaths of seals
(AP) - 5 days ago

EDINBURGH, Scotland -- Scottish scientists say they're investigating the deaths of seals found with corkscrew injuries the length of their bodies.
Over the past nine months, almost 30 mutilated gray and common harbor seals have washed up on Britain's east coast. The carcasses have been found as far north as Scotland and along England's Norfolk coast, about 130 miles (210 kilometers) northeast of London.
Dave Thompson, a research scientist from the Sea Mammal Research Unit at St. Andrews University, said Friday that a that predator was possible but, "given the injuries we have seen, our best guess at the moment is that it was caused by some sort of ducted propeller."
The Scottish government says establishing the cause is crucial so the declining seal population can be protected.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iGK7FSylJVvOHp1XWqlmty_kr9EgD9HN9E180

by shergald on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 10:23:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're funny (none / 0)

From a Guardian article yesterday. Emphasis mine.

A spokesman for Scottish Environment secretary Richard Lochhead, who commissioned the investigation into the seal deaths, refused to comment on specific theories of death until the studies are concluded.
"I'm hopeful the team at St Andrews can get to the root cause of these disturbing seal mortalities," said Lochhead in a statement. "A number of possible explanations are being considered and I look forward to the investigation being successfully concluded."
Wind farm operators are increasingly frustrated that the industry has been repeatedly linked to incidents of widllife mortalities with turbines having been accused of killing birds and bats as well as seals.
Advocates of the industry maintain there is little evidence to suggest wind farms are responsible for high wildlife death rates, while insiders are also quick to point out that traffic and household pets pose a far greater threat to British wildlife.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/aug/24/offshore-wind-farm-seal

Shall we allow objective investigators a chance without prejudging the outcome. I don't have a bet on this race and couldn't care less what is responsible as long as it is stopped. Seal populations off England are apparently dropping.

by shergald on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 10:36:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (4.00 / 3)

Have you noticed that no mermaid have been seen since they started building offshore wind farms? I think some investigation is required...

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 04:39:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (4.00 / 3)

Denmark has 20% wind power, and there's a mermaid still off Copenhagen, doesn't that count?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 04:44:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (none / 0)

Oh, but she must be working for the windpower industry...

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 04:54:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (none / 0)

Wait! Maybe wind power explains this!!!!

The Little Mermaid (statue) - Wikipedia

6 January 1998 - she was decapitated again^[3], the culprits were never found, but the head was returned anonymously to a nearby TV station, and on 4 February the head was back on.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 05:00:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (none / 1)

Then, the question is: did she lose her head because she came too close to a windmill, or was she decapitated by radical anti-windmills activists?

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 05:06:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fixed now (4.00 / 5)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 05:07:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (4.00 / 3)

Middelgrunden - Wikipedia

Middelgrunden is an offshore wind farm in the Øresund 3.5 km outside Copenhagen, Denmark. When it was built in 2000, it was the world's largest offshore farm, with 20 turbines and a capacity of 40 MW. The farm delivers about 4% of the power for Copenhagen.^[1]

Okay well, the timing is a bit off, but we don't have absolute proof that it wasn't connected, so: resolve it!

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 05:09:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (none / 0)

so without firefox, how do you give 4s to a whole thread?

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 05:22:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Grrrr (4.00 / 3)

Actually, there isn't. She's in Shanghai for the world expo. She's due back sometime in November, so there's plenty of time for her to request asylum with the Chinese authorities, or go underground.

- Jake

Our way of life is a lot more negotiable than the laws of nature.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Aug 25th, 2010 at 06:38:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: huh? (none / 0)

Another point:

If wind energy corporations were that interested in environmentalism, like reducing carbon based sources of energy and pollution and global warming, it would seem to me that they would use sail boats to get to and from those wind turbines rather than motorized craft. Then and only then would it be possible to exclude those boats in the killings of seals.

by shergald on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 01:11:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: huh? (4.00 / 7)

shergald:

they would use sail boats to get to and from those wind turbines

Sure. And if they were true environmentalists, they would use human-powered cranes to lift the turbine elements.

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 02:23:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: huh? (none / 0)

Fantastic idea. At this rate, we will stop global warming in no time whatsoever.

by shergald on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 02:35:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: huh? (4.00 / 6)

Though not used in off-shore construction, it's worth to note that rotosail ship E-Ship 1 belongs to wind turbine manufacturer Enercon and is used to transport turbine parts:

(I had to update the English Wikipedia article which still said the ship is in construction)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 05:08:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh - Uh - Now offshore wind farms (none / 1)

The first image jumping into my mind reading the title was seals jumping 20 m in the air to be hit by wind turbine blades... sheesh. This is a bit like blaming railways for accidents involving people crossing closed barriers (happened in Greece).

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 11:29:22 AM EST

Re: Oh - Uh - Now offshore wind farms (4.00 / 3)

Further points in Scira's release:

...Seals with similar damages have also been found along the coast of Scotland and Canada.
Scira takes the seal deaths very seriously and is as eager for the cause to be identified as the police and local community. Since July, when there was a sudden increase in the number of seal carcasses washing ashore, significant assistance and support has been provided to the police and this will continue for as long as needed.
This support has included offshore visits to all vessels working on the project with inspections of any propellers or other mechanical equipment; provision of Automatic Identification System (AIS) data and other vessel movements/log books; provision of specifications of all vessels; interviews and meetings with staff and contractors.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 11:33:01 AM EST

How about submarines practicing (none / 1)

sonar disorientation on marine mammals? Sounds as likely as anything suggested so far, since we know that the U.S. Navy, at least, plays around (experiments) with such questions occasionally.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 03:40:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Also, ain't nobody looking at (none / 0)

logs or submarine propellors from such non-'defense' organizations.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 03:42:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How about submarines practicing (none / 1)

Do seals use sonar like cetaceans?

At any rate, further titbits from another release, by another potential culprit:

News - 1 - SEAL DEATHS OFF BLAKENEY - Statement by WHC 22.8.10

...the seals appear to be being killed off the seal colony at Blakeney which is seven miles east and not on the same estuary as Wells Harbour. Our dredger has one large propeller which is kept clear of the water most of the time except for moving the dredger a few 100 metres at high tide, at a speed of a few knots and does not leave Wells Harbour. If seals were injured by this we would have seen blood and remains in the water, and this has not happened. We have spoken to Norfolk Police who we understand have eliminated the dredger from their enquiries.
3) Ducted Propellors - while it may be possible to imagine that, the injuries seen on the seals could be caused by the sort of propellers used on fast planing fishing boats or supply boats, we would point out that such boats have operated from Wells for many years with no such problems reported. These boats are very noisy in operation, both above and below the water, and seals would be well aware of any such vessel approaching.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 04:32:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How about submarines practicing (4.00 / 2)

DoDo:

Do seals use sonar like cetaceans?

These SEALs maybe...

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Tue Aug 24th, 2010 at 04:40:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Now offshore wind farms destroy seals!! (none / 1)

What are those seals doing in a low-flying area in the first place?

by TYR (a.harrowellNOSPAM@gmail.com) on Thu Aug 26th, 2010 at 10:33:13 AM EST

Oh - Uh - Now offshore wind farms destroy seals!! | 59 comments (59 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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