Tuesday Open Thread

by ceebs
Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:19:16 AM EST

Here comes the sun. Must be the new school term.


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never let desperation get in the way of judgement.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:20:33 AM EST
Dizzy Thinks: EXCLUSIVE: First peak at NHS Direct replacement service
Admit it, you know we all do it.


never let desperation get in the way of judgement.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:21:03 AM EST
by PeWi on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:30:25 AM EST
I dont think I'll ever be able to watch that film in the same way ever again

never let desperation get in the way of judgement.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:42:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Excellent looping.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 12:02:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cooking Cayenne Pork - the damn yoghurt has split on me again.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 12:04:16 PM EST
Using thick, full fat, yogurt?

If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
by ATinNM on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 12:17:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh no: low fat Turkilainen-style. It's mainly about temperature, as well as acids.

My favourite sauce maker is Quark - not only because the resonances of the word are satisfying.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 12:36:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a problem.  Low fat yogurts tend to separate unless they are heated very and, even then, it wants to be a Bad Yogurt.

If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
by ATinNM on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:31:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know, I always think I can get away with it - but then someone comes to talk to me, and then a discussion ensues about my use of a movie stop watch for timing food, the disappearance of the stop watch and its import, and on to a discussion of Time in general - meanwhile the sauce feels unloved and responds accordingly.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:42:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Funny. All that comes to mind when I hear the word 'quark' is QuarkXPress, a software program. Not one of my favorites. I'm sure the cheese is much better than the software.

Speaking of cheese though does remind me of how much I miss my favorite Humboldt Fog. Now that's one excellent cheese . . . it's made from goats. Probably not very good for cooking though.

by sgr2 on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 05:10:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
sounds yummy! Even to a mostly vegetarian.
by sgr2 on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 05:00:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ian Welsh dissents from certain fashionable excuses for Obama's inaction;-

Ian Welsh - What Can Obama Really Do ?

A zombie argument is going around about why Obama hasn't accomplished liberal and progressive ends to the extent many would have liked him to:

Obama can't do anything because he needs 60 votes in Congress and he doesn't have them because Republicans and Dems like Lieberman and Nelson won't vote for his programs.

This argument is misleading in one sense and incorrect in another.  It is misleading in that it misrepresents how things get done in Congress.  It is incorrect in that many liberal policies do not require the consent of Congress.

Let's examine the misconceptions this zombie argument is built on.....

worth a read

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 12:04:55 PM EST
Avedon Carol has a summary, but one point she makes is her own

Obama had the power to do many, many good things, and he refused every opportunity to do them. He refused to even attempt the most basic steps of negotiation with the opposition, asking not for a higher goal than what we really needed, but a lower goal as a pre-compromise, thus lowering the bar further still.


keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 12:22:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just because someone keeps asserting something in a reasonable tone -- "Obama had the power..." -- doesn't make it so.  I don't see any persuasive reasoning in either of these articles, just assertions.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 05:13:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've just been reading an awful lot of people in positions to know what they're talking about, not least Glenn Greenwald, who have been making very similar noises.

this is just the best summary I've seen rather than being an isolated voice.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 05:19:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I know it's not an isolated voice -- there's a whole meme.  In fact, they're on a roll!  Let's keep that momentum going and we're sure to get rid of Obama really soon!  Which... wait, maybe this IS good news for John McCain...

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 05:36:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think that anyone expressing disappointment at the lack of initiatives by Obama is arguing for less progressive legislation.

I believe they are doing what Obama asked during the election, to hold him to account over delivery. He isn't delivering and they are constantly saying, "you can do this". Yes, they are exasperated, they expected more and they fear that Obama's lack of progress on things signals something worrying about his commitment to genuine progressive values. He seems indifferent to the wishes, not just of his base, but the desires of the American public in poll after poll.

Bipartizanship is a virtue only if you get better legislation. If you end up with worse then chasing after it is a fetishisation of process over product.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 05:53:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Advocating for change and improvement is different from questioning his motives and declaring that he's not trying.  "Assuming that Obama does seek Liberal ends" is not expressing disappointment, it's questioning his motives.  Declaring that he 'has the power' but isn't doing things is not advocating change, it's laying blame.

According to the first article you linked to he apparently simply doesn't want to fix the economy, repeal DADT, restore habeas corpus, help homeowners, or save social security.  How is this 'holding him to account?'

Advocating and "making him" do what we want is not accomplished by ignoring the political environment and process and simply insisting he could do it if he wanted and, since it's not done, he must not want it.  Or is 'indifferent.'

Bipartisanship, fetishy or not, has nothing to do with it.

But let's say for a minute that you're totally right -- he's got a fetish for Republicans and doesn't give a shit about progressive causes.  

We're stuck with him for at least two more years.  I was hoping for 6, but whatever.  So what real world good does calling him a liar and various versions of an ineffective piece of shit do?  What, exactly, does it accomplish towards our goals?  

Is it going to win political support for liberals?  Is it going to make future candidates go further left?  Seriously, how is constant blame and criticism furthering our goals in any way?  

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 07:22:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
how is constant blame and criticism furthering our goals in any way?

Just about everyone who is now criticizing Obama did vote for him at least once, in the November '08 election. After about June '08 I had to agree with Booman that the thing to do was to support Obama. I chose to hope for the best and consoled myself that he had the political skills to make a difference - if he chose to try. I kept hoping that he would until about this time last year. I have stopped hoping for much from him. He is better than Bush, but that is such a low bar. Then, Obama seems to be a low bar artist.

Since this time of year in '08 it has been clear to most on this site that, if we are to have a better world, the US financial industry has to be reformed. Something that massive can only be done in a crisis. We had such a crisis. Obama demonstrated that he believes that the current financial system is vital and has to be saved. He went out of his way to reconstitute that system and avoided imposing any real new restrictions on it. That financial system continues to systematically loot the society in which it operates and is leading that society into an even bigger calamity than the one we are now experiencing.

"how is constant blame and criticism furthering our goals in any way?" How is Obama's conduct as POTUS furthering even the future of the Democratic Party? He is turned on by former Wall Street donors when he is seen as being less than an uncritical cheerleader, according to that idiot Sorkin in todays NYT. He gets no credit from the right for all his attempts at "bi-partisanship". He just comes off as being a more polished spokesman for financial and corporate interests, as would befit a Harvard trained lawyer at least to those who do not reject him out of hand as a Muslim Communist or some such stupidity. Are we supposed to still believe that he secretly wants to advance a progressive agenda? What is the evidence? He seems more like an Eisenhower Republican than a progressive democrat.

He came into office with the Republicans badly discredited by the Global Financial Clusterfuck, but, while he was happy to blame Bush, he has continued with their policies. He has done nothing to push back on the economic views that have gotten us where we are. Christina Romer's recommendation for a $1.2 trillion stimulus as what was needed, at a minimum never even made it past his Chief of Staff, Rahm E. It turns out she was right and the economy is tanking again, right on schedule, and he his in a box and has managed to put the Democratic Party in that box with himself.

Had he used the Presidency to push back on the received stupidity regarding economics in the USA he might have created some room to maneuver, but now it looks more like he will endorse Pete Peterson's campaign to cut back Social Security. Even that could be justified in some sense if it would even work -- but it won't. Instead it will produce needless suffering while further depressing the economy.

Meanwhile, the build-up in Afghanistan is starting to produce the levels of casualties that we were getting in Iraq in 2005, and we can ill afford the $1 million/soldier cost of deploying to Afghanistan or the continuing cost of stationing 50,000 troops in Iran indefinitely. It is a major hit to our current account and puts further strain on the dollar. Our best hope is that Hamid Karzai will kick us out before the Taliban drive us out or, more likely, our currency collapses and we can't afford to import oil or stay in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Obama may have been dealt a bad hand. But he cannot blame the Republicans for how he has played it. They were part of that hand, after all. Politics may be the art of the possible, but there are times when it becomes the art of doing the essential or seeing your country disintegrate. I fear this is one of those times. I fear that Obama either cannot or will not see the necessity of fundamental change. I see us headed for the cliff and you are complaining that I am not cheering.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 08:37:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama clearly isn't lacking leadership skills. He ran one of the best campaigns of the last century.

But it was odd how all of that leadership disappeared after taking office.

Leadership doesn't just mean getting a job done as best you can - it means defining what people are talking about, what they're thinking about, and how they feel they personally fit in with both.

Obama could easily have defined his term as a turning point. Instead he has left a complete leadership vacuum which rent-a-trolls like Beck, Palin and the tea baggers have been more than happy to fill.

Obama, the media president, stopped doing media.

We had people on here saying that Obama was teh genius for appointing Geithner and the other Wall St creepoids, so that they would take the fall when the economy tanks.

Instead the creepoids will still be smug and chuckling after Obama has retired to Blair-out his memoirs and head up whatever humanitarian thingy he decides to humanitarianificate about.

The US badly needed a real leader after Bush. Instead it's had a place holder, a filler, a lo-fat diet Democratic-Brand™ McPresident who is very serious and very respectful, and certainly isn't going to rock the boat while it sinks.

And worst of all, the Obama Vacuum and the next couple of years of economic fail, are going to leave the stage wide open for a serious run from some Manson-in-a-suit right-wing whacko to take over in 2012.

Apart from that, he hasn't been George Bush, exactly. Which is fine, I guess.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 09:11:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I get it - you have complaints and we're all fucking doomed.  But again, what good is complaining about Obama personally and questioning his motives doing?  How is it helping?  I am NOT "complaining" that you're not "cheering"and I'd thank you not to put words in my mouth.  No one asked you to cheer.  I'm asking how everyone who's doing it thinks that destructive criticism is going to result in anything contructive.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 09:19:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
PS. The end of the US, of the US government, is not DOOM. It's simply a new beginning, one I look forward to.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 09:53:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am NOT "complaining" that you're not "cheering"...

And I have TRIED to avoid impugning his motives, inscrutable as they seem to be. His policies, regardless of motive, are enough to trip my gag reflex. Though I do have to wonder...

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:06:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You DO seem to be complaining that self identified progressives ARE complaining about the direction, or lack thereof, from the Obama Administration. Helen used the word "exasperation".

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:09:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not telling anyone not to be exasperated -- I'm asking what good your tactic of criticizing him personally is doing.  I didn't say a thing about 'self identified progressives.'  I said the articles linked to, as I pointed out, is nothing more than assertions leading to only one conclusion -- that Obama is "choosing" not to get things done.  I'm asking, again -- what people who support this sort of thing are hoping to accomplish?  Claiming you haven't technically assigned him a motive is disingenuous when you're asserting he's choosing not to do the right thing.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:39:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, perhaps this doesn't make you at least wonder. The need for narrative is strong. If Team Obama doesn't supply a credible narrative, others will. The identity of some of those "others" exasperates others of those "others", as does the identity of some of those Team Obama accepts into their dressing room. (The "Cat Food Commission" is the name "professional leftists" have given President Obama's National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, which originally was to feature Pete Peterson as the opening speaker and has Alan Simpson as a commissioner. But you cannot blame the Brits for being disgusted/alarmed, as they have had years of similar treatment at the hands of Nulabor.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 12:08:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, the need for narrative is apparently so strong that my asking a question, which still hasn't been answered, is seen as blaming the brits, asking for cheering, and slamming progressives, all of which you've accused me of instead of answering my question -- assuming you're absolutely right (for the sake of discussion), what good is stating versions of "Obama is wrong/bad" over and over doing?  I'll ask again - how is that helping us get towards our goals?

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 12:38:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How is supporting him helping us to get towards any goal I see as worthwhile? Just because he is president I should support him? You could have asked me the same question about LBJ. The opinions of those who voted for him in '08 should matter to him. It is more than just the "professional leftists" that he has to worry about.

If space aliens abducted Obama and his entire administration and they were never heard from again that might put us further down the road to accomplishing goals that are vital to our survival than Obama seems likely to accomplish in the time that remains to him. At least there would be the possibility of a real leader emerging.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 12:57:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just because he is president I should support him?

There you go filling in your narrative for me again -- where did I say you should support him (or, below, stay silent)?  Are the only choices either supporting him or making personal attacks?  

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 03:27:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm asking what good your tactic of criticizing him personally is doing.

Criticizing Obama is not a TACTIC. It is an unavoidable reaction to what I and many others see as an ongoing disaster. Ask most of the US House of Representatives who are up for reelection in November just how much help they expect Obama to be to their reelection or if any one or anything, other than money, from the Obama White House would help them. Could you get a candid answer, most, including the Blue Dogs, would probably say: "Not much, but I am glad for the money". Others might go so far as to say: "Please don't make a public offer of the possibility of an Obama campaign appearance! I don't want to embarrass us both."

There is no obligation of loyalty on my part to Obama or the Democratic Party. I have been a registered Democrat since 1964 and have, I believe, always voted for Democratic candidates, not out of principle, but as a tactic. Since 1965 I have become accustomed to being in strong disagreement with the policies of Democratic Presidents. It is not my role to fall in line with the leadership. There role is to decide if my vote and the votes of people with similar views are worth accommodating. In truth, there is no party that has really represented my views. There have only been occasional candidates that came close, such as Eugene McCarthy and George McGovern.

I am becoming more and more convinced that the only way forward is via a political realignment into a Reform Party that has as its prime objective dismantling the financial capture of Washington DC by the financial elites and fundamental reform of campaign finance. There are dangers in this approach, as the paleocons, such as Paul Craig Roberts, and the libertarians, such as Ron Paul, have very different social agendas. But we are, I fear, approaching the point at which the danger of the current system is even greater.

The effectiveness of Obama's political leadership has been such that the Democrats may well loose the House in November and loose ground in the Senate. The economy will continue to deteriorate and may well experience another collapse before November 2012 that is worse than that of October '08. Blaiming all of this on Bush will not cut it by then and we could well have a new Republican President with a Republican majority in both houses. We could then be reduced to hoping that there would even be future elections.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 10:57:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
you have complaints and we're all fucking doomed.

I do not maintain that we ARE doomed, only that we WILL BE if we cannot, um, gather ourselves together to do what must be done. My concern with Obama is that he seems to avoid all opportunities to even start on what needs to be done -- deal with the power of the corporations, especially the financial corporations.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 12:22:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and once more, how is saying how wrong/bad Obama is going to help us, um, gather ourselves together and do what must be done?

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 12:40:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
From my point of view, why should I remain silent?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 12:48:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Who said you should?  I asked you to answer a question, not to shut up.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 03:28:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The answer to your "question" is that it is less a question than a frame. From the point of view of those who created the frame "constant criticism and blame of Obama" is just playing into the hands of the opposition. From my point of view continuing the course that the Obama White House has taken is just playing into the hands of the opposition. I reject the frame and the question.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 11:01:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Uh, no -- the question is not a 'frame.'  It's a direct question asked about things directly posted here.  The articles criticized him personally and I asked what good you thought that did and what it was supposed to accomplish.  There was no implication or placing the question in any sort of ideological or accusatory framework.  All the other side-arguments you've dragged into this discussion have come from you, not my question.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 02:40:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am NOT "complaining" that you're not "cheering"and I'd thank you not to put words in my mouth.

A question such as: "What good is that going to do?" is, inherently, a criticism of that about which the question is asked. You are certainly smart enough to know that, so I find your accusation of my putting words in your mouth to be a bit disingenuous. The whole question: "what good is complaining about Obama personally and questioning his motives doing?" smacks of being a carefully contrived rhetorical device that has been focus group tested and shown to be effective at confounding critics of Obama's corporatist policies or any other criticism. Twelve efficient words to silence the opposition.

For those of us who feel that where Obama is leading the nation is worse than where we are there is an answer to the question: "It shows those who are not too arrogant to listen that the policies they are following are losing them the support of a section of their former supporters." and "It provides a means for former supporters to show that they are not complicit in policies that they believe will prove disastrous."

It is probably going to be a bloodbath for Democrats in November. "What good will it do them to blame the defeat on leftwing bloggers?" Well, it IS handy to have a scapegoat. Perhaps even some of the Kossacks will have learned a lesson.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 01:34:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The whole question: "what good is complaining about Obama personally and questioning his motives doing?" smacks of being a carefully contrived rhetorical device that has been focus group tested and shown to be effective at confounding critics of Obama's corporatist policies or any other criticism. Twelve efficient words to silence the opposition.

That's ridiculous -- it's a direct question -- "what do you hope to accomplish" -- not a 'rhetorical device" to "silence the opposition."  It's not like I asked why you hate Obama/the left/america, etc. where there was an accusation included.

If you have a defensive response to the question and are wondering why, perhaps it has more to do with your answer than the question.  Which I thank you for FINALLY answering, despite surrounding it by further accusations and suppositions.

For those of us who feel that where Obama is leading the nation is worse than where we are there is an answer to the question: "It shows those who are not too arrogant to listen that the policies they are following are losing them the support of a section of their former supporters." ...It is probably going to be a bloodbath for Democrats in November."

"It provides a means for former supporters to show that they are not complicit in policies that they believe will prove disastrous."

So if I'm reading this correctly, you believe Obama is making things worse, that the Dems will lose power, and that this is ok because 'the left' is withdrawing support for principled reasons?  And... you want to be vocal about why, but don't want any blame later?  Does this make any sense to you?  Do you have any thoughts on what might work to help the situation?  or is it impossible?

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 02:24:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is not me that the Democrats have to worry about. I held my nose and voted for Humphry, for Mondale, for the idiot in a tank from Boston, will certainly hold my nose and vote for my local Blue Dogs and probably will vote for Obama in 2012, unless there is a more appealing alternative from a third party that seems actually to have a chance. For me voting is tactical. My opinions are my opinions and if the leaders of the Democratic Party care about them, they can try to so indicate by means other than cheap rhetoric. What they will lose is any enthusiasm from most on the left. (I didn't have much in '08 - hopes was about as far as it got.)

As far as the left withdrawing support, most will probably vote tactically for Democrats this year and for Obama in 2012 but be less willing to make small contributions. But while the Obama campaign made much of their online donors, they were not as significant as their financial sector donors. I doubt that the Obama machine gives a FF about small donations from the left. But they will be happy to blame disaffected progressives for their own failures. It won't be the progressives fault if the independents dessert the Democrats in droves, and I hope they don't...

Without trying to speak for others, I am not "trying to accomplish" anything other than letting pollsters, elected officials and candidates know what I want - more progressive policies and candidates. I am not going to change that just because "accomplishment" is improbable. Asking me "what I want to accomplish by criticizing Obama" attempts to shift responsibility for the results from their actions and policies to my attitudes. That is ridiculous.

That might not be what you intend by the question, but you are far from the first from whom I have heard that question. Booman was, in effect, asking the same question back in the summer of '08. Since then it has appeared any time the progressives complain about the direction of the Obama Administration. Probably within a few years some political guru will step forth and claim credit for coming up with that question for the Obama campaign, though it is likely as old as politics.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 03:43:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"what I want to accomplish by criticizing Obama" ~ it has appeared any time the progressives complain about the direction of the Obama Administration

Again, you're misrepresenting what I said and conflating criticism of direction or action with personal criticism.  There's a major difference.  I was asking my question in regards to the latter.  I'm amazed by how defensive you are about it -- claiming it contains framing, was focussed-grouped, and now that a political guru would want credit for it.  

If you post your opinions in a public forum, especially a political discussion site, then they are no longer simply 'your opinions.'  They're an attempt to persuade or inform others.  When you write and publish, you're taking an action.  As such, it's perfectly valid for me to ask what you hope to accomplish by it.  

Asking it is not some bullshit genius political frame or an attempt to 'silence' you or to 'shift blame' or whatever other narrative you have in your head.  It's an honest question.  Sorry it makes you so uncomfortable.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 04:46:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have lived in the US Empire since 1952 and I am tired of Empire. I am too old to leave this country so I will take the second best solution, the end of the US. That is coming, albeit not as quickly as I would prefer, and I see nothing stopping the disintegration. The suffering will continue until we have a government which governs, not abuses its population for its own benefit. The US government is terminally corrupt, incapable of being healed, and will die. Good riddance!

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 09:34:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Right - and I'm sure "the government" can easily be replaced by something pleasant and fair.  Sorry, but you're being idiotic.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:40:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Izzy:
Right - and I'm sure "the government" can easily be replaced by something pleasant and fair.

or something less obviously bought-and-sold by corporations/banksters, something, um, by and for the people instead.

obama had us all make it personal when he campaigned like a reformer, now we are supposed to stop attacking his choices? it is not easy to blame obama, it hurts a lot, as it points to how much we needed to believe after the country had 'gone bush' for so tragically long.

attacking his choices and policies shouldn't be interpreted as attacking obama, imo, but rather as holding his feet to the fire, and resisting being made dupes of a system that seems to have swallowed obama, rhetoric, charisma and all, into itself with nary a burp or a gurgle...

he may be the most articulate, charming, distinguished president the USA ever had, but if he doesn't grab the nation's imagination in the way he did campaigning, but better even, (to compensate for all the disillusion since inauguration), i for one will be as angrily disappointed as i remain about phony tony, because there's little worse in politics than to be represented by 'leaders' who purport to be on your side, and who promise the refreshment of real change you can believe in, hijack immense amounts of voter faith and good will, then turn around and do the precise opposite of what they promised.
once, maybe twice, but over and over and over?

obama supporters aren't stupid, but the horror of republican rule can't be the only reason to support obama, or it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy...

now it becomes fully clear how two-edged the gift of such soaring rhetoric can be. if he had campaigned more modestly, and then continued to carve a path that split the difference between true progressivism and a real centrist position, (as the campaign trumpeted, and thus proves obama knows what's needed to be done), the costume change is too jarring to be anything but extremely questionable.

fiery superman has changed into mild mannered clark kent, the expensive firework is a wet squib.

nothing personal, o-man. my red flag of too-good-to-be-true right from the dem convention speech that pretty much got him the gig, or at least set the ball rolling.

extending credibility occurred when i saw how dogged a campaigner he was, but if it was just to act as he has, do you really think so many would have turned out to put him there?

if he is a stooge after all, was the purpose just to put a dem in for the wipeout of the economy?

i wish i could still believe, Izzy, i really do. the facts don't lie though, and if it's only fear of worse that he can depend on for a second term, or even a dem congress, then i can't see him affecting much more than he has, which ain't much. it is something, but it's very small potatoes, compared to what we have to deal with barreling towards us at breakneck speed.

if the only dems we can see in power are charming triangulators like clinton, i don't expect their influence to last long or go far.

they say if you dine with the devil, bring a long spoon. i don't see it long enough with obama, and i feel your pain that it is so.

perhaps obama is a bandaid on a tumour, and a stopgap placeholder while the orcs plot their latest farce-as-tragedy, i pray not, but at the end of the day, what exactly is the point of being attached to keeping the band aid if the tumour keeps growing?

i know leaders like obama are one in a million, and this is what pisses me off the most, the fucking waste of such a brilliant mind and orator, dedicated to propping up a failing paradigm using the strength of the poor believers who actually thought his election may have started the beginning of the end of their being screwed by the system.

no such luck, it seems...

a few commenters here expressing their doubts will do little either way to affect elections, but it will keep debate and discussion alive with sometimes conflicting points of view, something perhaps more important long term to us all.

Hopeful pessimist, hopeless optimist, it's a fine line

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 05:31:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
attacking his choices and policies shouldn't be interpreted as attacking obama

I'm not interpreting.  Policies are an entirely different matter and not part of this discussion.  Do you deny that he's being attacked personally?  Because that's what I'm asking the question about.  

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 02:46:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Izzy, none of us know obama personally!

he has chosen (and was chosen) to serve in the most prominently public position on the planet, in the role with more life and death responsibility than any other one soul.

is it any wonder he inspires criticism, from both wings? that's what you chose with centrism.

that's why 'hedge fund democrat' is so descriptive.

(h/t Bruce)

i agree some of the attacks are personal, and i have gone there myself, and am not proud of it, but his persona is all we can work with, and we'd be remiss as political observers if we were't deeply interested in the psychology of leadership, in its widest historic sense.

couple his public self with our capacity to parse and scry, and it sort of has to get a bit personal.

yet even the most damning of criticisms here at ET have not been mean-spirited, at least imo.

it's the kitchen he chose to cook in, and frankly, no matter how much heat these comments (and those dementedly beckian teabag astroturfers are really mean) may contain, he looks like he's staying the north side of cool, so...

if i were obama i don't know if i'd have the stones to do what needs to be done, so i never call him a coward. i respect him, and like ARG, find him pleasant, especially with his power. there's so one else even laughably close to his votegetting pull, so i wouldn't worry too much about obama personally, hard as it is to believe sometimes, it appears he was more sizzle than steak, what's really important is to work around him, and beyond him, as Bruce so correctly reminds us.

if anyone could surprise me (again!) it would be mr enigma himself, and i could not more want to be wrong about my doubts... i just wish this was all a great novel, not real life, you know? then one could really stop reading once in a while, and let it all go.

but when so much is at stake, and change accelerating exponentially, it's near impossible!

Hopeful pessimist, hopeless optimist, it's a fine line

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 10:12:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
none of us know obama personally!

Oh jesus -- really, melo?  do you think I'm stupid?  or do you honestly not know the difference between a 'personal' attack and attacking policies? Don't be obtuse.  It has nothing to do with whether you KNOW someone and you know it.  If you truly do not know the difference between "X did a bad thing" and "X is a bad person" then you need more education than I can give you.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 11:28:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
sigh...did you stop reading there?

obama makes me feel schizzy, there you have it...

it's driving me nuts wondering where the american story is going, and it's not my intention to be personal, but i can see the policies are worth criticising, the man...it's just bloggy speculation, pretty close to weightless in the great scale of things.

you can only separate politics and personas so long... my opinions shift constantly, and here at ET i can throw them against the wall and see which stick.

sorry if i offended you, but i don't think anything we burble on about here matters one jot to obama, or the future US elections. we're just backseat driving, s'all.

folks round here aren't too flattering about local leaders either, as you probably picked up by now, lol. trying to keep it as real as can be.

(we're just jealous you got such a rock star.)

he's a big boy, i bet he hears worse things every day than anything here at ET!

peace out

melo

Hopeful pessimist, hopeless optimist, it's a fine line

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Sep 2nd, 2010 at 05:02:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Izzy, none of us know obama personally!

he has chosen (and was chosen) to serve in the most prominently public position on the planet, in the role with more life and death responsibility than any other one soul.

is it any wonder he inspires criticism, from both wings? that's what you chose with centrism.

that's why 'hedge fund democrat' is so descriptive.

(h/t Bruce)

i agree some of the attacks are personal, and i have gone there myself, and am not proud of it, but his persona is all we can work with, and we'd be remiss as political observers if we were't deeply interested in the psychology of leadership, in its widest historic sense.

couple his public self with our capacity to parse and scry, and it sort of has to get a bit personal.

yet even the most damning of criticisms here at ET have not been mean-spirited, at least imo.

it's the kitchen he chose to cook in, and frankly, no matter how much heat these comments (and those dementedly beckian teabag astroturfers are really mean) may contain, he looks like he's staying the north side of cool, so...

if i were obama i don't know if i'd have the stones to do what needs to be done, so i never call him a coward. i respect him, and like ARG, find him pleasant, especially with his power. there's so one else even laughably close to his votegetting pull, so i wouldn't worry too much about obama personally, hard as it is to believe sometimes, it appears he was more sizzle than steak, what's really important is to work around him, and beyond him, as Bruce so correctly reminds us.

if anyone could surprise me (again!) it would be mr enigma himself, and i could not more want to be wrong about my doubts... i just wish this was all a great novel, not real life, you know? then one could really stop reading once in a while, and let it all go.

but when so much is at stake, and change accelerating exponentially, it's near impossible!

Hopeful pessimist, hopeless optimist, it's a fine line

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 10:16:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yle: Record Summer Big Screen Audiences in Finland

Reijo Jämes, Marketing Director of Finnkino, the country's largest cinema chain, said that last summer was the best ever in terms of ticket sales.

"We had record sales in June this year, and this August is shaping up to be the best ever," he explained to YLE.



You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:05:01 PM EST
This is quite cool.

http://www.thewildernessdowntown.com/

If you live in Britain...

Although it should work where ever there is google streetmap

by PeWi on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:05:45 PM EST
Holy shit! IT conjuring...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A combination of electronic legerdemain and trompe l'oeuil. Please note the etymology of those two phrases. Mentioning no names, but....

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:20:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hi folks.  Survived a moderate storm.  I don't think the winds surpassed 100 MPH, even in gusts.  Nevertheless, trees and branches are strewn everywhere and I am without electricity.  The only reason you're hearing (seeing?) from me is that I came down to the university campus to run off copies of the syllabus for tomorrow's class.  Here are our stories:

Puerto Rico Daily SunDespite official reports saying the effects of hurricane Earl were to be intermittent rains and gusts of wind during the morning, with their frequency and intensity increasing during the late afternoon, the fifth event of this year's hurricane season started pounding the island with heavy rains and winds early Monday morning.
By noon several branches had fallen over power lines and roads,  flash floods in both urban and rural areas, and some 20 people had sought the safety of emergency refuges in the island/municipalities  of Vieques and Culebra, Gov. Fortuño informed.
Early Monday morning several thousand residents of Río Piedras and Guaynabo woke up to find out they had no electricity in their homes and that they would have to brave a more combative Monday morning commute because several traffic lights at key intersections were out due to the power failure.

PR Daily Sun: The island's close brush with Hurricane Earl Monday demonstrated that the Puerto Rico Electric Energy Authority is not ready for such a challenge, said the industry's powerful union.
"The state of abandon and lack of preventive maintenance of the system was apparent with just a few moderate winds," said Ángel Figueroa Jaramillo, president of the Union of Electric and Irrigation Industry Workers.
He noted that several sectors were without electric service and several lines were down in the mountain in Barranquitas, Aibonito, Orocovis.
He said the following towns were also lacking power service: Guaynabo, Ceiba, Fajardo, Río Grande, Luquillo, and the island municipalities of Vieques and  Culebra, affecting thousands of PREPA clients.


"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:31:36 PM EST
Well, we are all relieved. Most of the rest of us do not have to face the full power of the global weather system - yet.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The islands to our east (where my mother's side of the family is from) got hit harder than we did.  See this video from the southern most Virgin Island of St. Croix:



"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne

by maracatu on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:57:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
First cracks as French foreign minister almost resigns over Roma policy | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 30.08.2010
Bernard Kouchner, a long-term humanitarian advocate, said he came close to stepping down over the French government's new law and order crusade against the Roma gypsies. 

The French foreign minister, Bernard Kouchner, told RTL radio on Monday that he had considered resigning over the French government's recent crackdown on Roma Gypsies. Kouchner said he told President Nicolas Sarkozy about his concerns and his thoughts of stepping down. He decided to remain in the job, saying that leaving amounted to 'deserting.'

"I asked myself whether I should resign, Kouchner said. "But what would have that changed? No, I was not happy about this policy. I've been involved with the Roma for 25 years. And I don't like making a political issue out of them."

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:44:18 PM EST
Fran:
He decided to remain in the job, saying that leaving amounted to 'deserting.'

Cry me a river.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 02:24:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
it makes it harder to lecture the chinese about tibetans...

Hopeful pessimist, hopeless optimist, it's a fine line
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 02:30:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh pffft.  That's got nothing to do with it.  Not even remotely the same. Avert your gaze, now.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 02:32:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Almost resigns"?

Ha ha ha.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:23:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EUobserver / Ashton hits back at Kouchner over Middle East talks

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton has defended her plan to go to China instead of to Thursday's (2 September) Middle East peace talks following criticism by French foreign minister Bernard Kouchner.

In a detailed statement issued over the weekend, her office said the Beijing trip is "very important" due to upcoming discussions by EU leaders on a strategic partnership with the Asian country and in order to build personal relations with her Chinese counterpart, Dai Binguo.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:45:34 PM EST
And, of course, the Middle East Peace Talks are going nowhere fast.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 02:43:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Belgian king refuses resignation of coalition power broker | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 30.08.2010
Belgium's King Albert II has refused the resignation of politician charged with forming a new government. Socialist leader Elio Di Rupo has offered to step down, saying he could not reconcile deep political differences. 

Belgium's French-speaking Socialist Party leader Elio di Rupo has been told he must press ahead with talks to form a new government, 10 weeks after parliamentary elections failed to produce a clear winner.

Di Rupo visited the palace of monarch King Albert II on Sunday to offer his resignation after failing to build a working coalition government. The pair were in discussion for three hours, a palace statement said.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:46:16 PM EST
Tony Blair: A Journey set to become biggest political memoir of all-time - Telegraph
Tony Blair's autobiography, A Journey, is set to become the biggest political memoir of all-time, according to Amazon.co.uk.

Pre-orders of the book have outstripped those for Lord Mandelson's memoir, The Third Man by 36 per cent.

Experts at Amazon claim it is set to overtake the former Business Secretary's sales figures once it is released on Wednesday.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:47:48 PM EST
Can't imagine who'd buy it

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 02:09:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't want to pay for it but maybe I'd get it out of the library.  I want to see how he justifies everything...

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 02:31:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
..and then be charged for damage to public property after you throw it into the fire in a fit of outrage.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:19:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the next generation of weaselly, sanctimonious conmen, to whom he's a hero?

Hopeful pessimist, hopeless optimist, it's a fine line
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 02:32:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
so that's five accounted for. Who are the others ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:21:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How to publish the biggest political memoir of all time:

do 36% better than that wanker Mandelson.

I was going to say Ha ha ha but in the end I don't feel like it.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:27:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
On the other hand, the Süddeutsche says that no one is buying it in the stores
Es ist nicht verwunderlich, dass sich am Erscheinungstag von Tony Blairs Memoiren vor Englands Buchläden keine Schlangen bilden. Das Buch bietet wenig Neues: Er bedauert die Toten im Irak, kritisiert seinen Nachfolger Brown - und räumt ein Alkoholproblem ein.
But it probably won't break Gordon Brown's record of 32 copies sold
Ganz so schlecht wie das letzte Buch seines Nachfolgers dürften sich die Memoiren des britischen Ex-Premierministers Tony Blair sicherlich nicht verkaufen. Eine Sammlung von Reden und Essays, die Gordon Brown vor einem Jahr auf den Markt brachte, erzielte mit insgesamt 32 verkauften Exemplaren einen Guinnessbuch-verdächtigen Negativrekord. Aber zumindest am Erscheinungstag von Blairs Buch A Journey bildeten sich keine Schlangen von Käufern in den Buchgeschäften. Eine in einen Buchladen entsandte BBC-Reporterin beispielweise wartete stundenlang mutterseelenallein vor einem Regal mit dem 718 Seiten dicken Wälzer, ohne dass sich ein einziger Interessent dorthin verirrt hätte.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 09:47:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
gideon and george (gideonsaysyah) on Twitter
@kirstylogan booksellers can also brighten their day by leaving tony blair's book in the crime section and pointing customers there


never let desperation get in the way of judgement.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 10:28:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Swedish police interrogate WikiLeaks founder | Radio Netherlands Worldwide

Julian Assange, the founder of the WikiLeaks website, has been interrogated by the Swedish police. His lawyer says he is accused of sexual assault although he fully expects the charges to be dropped.

Leif Silbersky, one of Sweden's top defence lawyers, said police had questioned his client in his presence for about an hour on Monday evening and that the interrogation "went very well. I expect the prosecutor will drop the whole thing."

A duty prosecutor issued an arrest warrant on the evening of Friday 20 August in connection with an allegation of rape, but chief prosecutor Eva Finne abruptly withdrew it the next day saying new information had come to light.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:51:21 PM EST
What happened to the leaks? Screw this dirty tricks crap.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:10:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There was one in the last couple of days about a CIA report about The USA being a terrorist state, that do you?

never let desperation get in the way of judgement.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:19:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How about something I don't know already?

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:25:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Did you know that the CIA knew it?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:31:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How could they not? They're a part of the mechanism.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:33:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Could be an ignorant cog in the machine. An un-self-aware bacterium in the epidemic. A mindless turd floating on the surface of the cloaca.

Forget I said all that.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:38:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Trailer

More details.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 02:00:24 PM EST
Greenpeace has done it again. Damn this financial meltdown makes too many people unemployed, with too much time on their hands.

Drilling Rig in Greenland SHUT DOWN

At least they found very good use of their free time, exceptionally courageous.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 02:06:12 PM EST
Genetic Information, Health Insurance, and "Socialized Medicine" - Maxine Udall (girl economist)

I gained some insight into this recently when an elderly relative started complaining about "Obamacare" and how it would lead to "socialized medicine." Knowing the person had heart surgery courtesy of Medicare and was receiving ongoing monitoring and care, I said, "I didn't realize you were so unhappy with Medicare." To which I received the reply: "I'm not talking about Medicare, I'm talking about socialized medicine."

"How is Medicare different from socialized medicine?" I asked.

"Medicare isn't socialized," came the reply. "I pay for it. I pay every month and when I've had surgery, I've had to pay some of it. Medicare is like any other insurance."

"Well," I said, "I know you're paying a premium for Part B and I know there are copayments and deductibles, but Medicare is a government run health insurance program."

To which the reply was: "But I'm talking about socialized medicine. You know that whenever the government gets involved in anything, it never does a good job."

"I had no idea you were having problems with Medicare." said I. "I always had the impression you were pretty satisfied with it. And with the VA, too. I know you've used the VA for some care recently. What problems have you had with Medicare or the VA?"

"Well, none with Medicare or the VA, but I'm not talking about Medicare. I'm talking about socialized medicine."

"So you're happy with Medicare?"

"Yes."

"Would you mind if your [adult] children could buy into it? Your son is unemployed. Would it be OK if he could buy into Medicare?"

"Well, sure. As long as he has to pay like I do."

You were all wondering how someone could say, "Keep your government hands off my Medicare?" Well, there you have it.



Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 02:27:26 PM EST
From Maxine Udall's home page, under "about":

Joan Robinson (girl economist): Richard T. Ely Lecture to the American Economics Association, 1972 (published in AER, 1972, 62(1/2): 1-10)
"A sure sign of a crisis is the prevalence of cranks. It is characteristic of a crisis in theory that cranks get a hearing from the public which orthodoxy is failing to satisfy. ... The cranks are to be preferred because they see that there is a problem."

That was the year the AEA made the mistake of making John Kenneth Gailbraith president.  :-)

You go, girl!

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 02:56:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So if people start to listen to us, does that mean we're cranks?

never let desperation get in the way of judgement.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:21:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This crowd is way beyond being cranks. You're bordering on being sane. Now to get to effective.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:29:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you ever have the opportunity to have conversations on these subjects with the students you are tutoring? That is the beginning of being effective. Best to start with getting across the scope of the problem. Once they have grasped that, prospects such as the disintegration of the USA become frightening, or perhaps hopeful, possibilities instead of crazy ideas. But before you want to see California as a successor state consider that it is currently one of the top five basket cases.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:16:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No sweat, right now they're not.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:30:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah yes, the wild side of disreputable but sharp Modern Physics.


from endnotes of my book Destiny Matrix 2010 up-date of the 2002 book

[1]  Yakir Aharonov wrote : 4.2 Destiny states: new solution to measurement problem
Up until now we have limited ourselves to the possibility of two boundary conditions which obtain their assignment due to selections made before and after a measurement. It is feasible and even suggestive to consider an extension of QM to include both a wavefunction arriving from the past and a second "destiny" wavefunction coming from the future which are determined by two boundary conditions, rather than a measurement and selection. This proposal could solve the issue of the "collapse" of the wavefunction in a new and more natural way: every time a measurement takes place and the possible measurement outcomes decohere, then the future boundary condition simply selects one out of many possible outcomes [35, 32]. It also implies a kind of "teleology" which might prove fruitful in addressing the anthropic and fine tuning issues[77] The possibility of a final boundary condition on the universe could be probed experimentally by searching for "quantum miracles" on a cosmological scale. While a "classical miracle" is a rare event that can be explained by a very unusual initial boundary-condition, "Quantum Miracles" are those events which cannot naturally be explained through any special initial boundary-condition, only through initial-and-final boundary-conditions. By way of example, destiny-post-selection could be used to create the right dark energy or the right negative pressure ...

This is Tibetan Buddhism!

" ... the description of the time evolution given by QM does not appropriately represent multi-time-correlations which are similar to Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen/Bohm entanglement (eq. 1.1) but instead of being between two particles in space, they are correlations for a single particle between two different times. Multitime-correlations, however, can be represented by using TSQM. As a consequence, the general notion of time in QM is changed from the current conceptual framework which was inherited from CM, i.e.: 1): the universe is viewed as unique, and the objects which inhabit it just change their state in time. In this view, time is "empty," it just propagates a state forward; the operators of the theory create the time evolution; to a new conceptual framework in which: 2): each instant corresponds to a new pair of Hilbert spaces, (i.e., each instant is a new degree of freedom; in a sense, a new universe); instead of the operators creating the time evolution as in the previous approach, an entangled state (in time) "creates"the propagation: a whole new set of structures within time is able to "propagate" a quantum state forward in time ...



Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 02:35:01 PM EST
Reads like a boundary condition between babble and bull shit but IANAP.

If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
by ATinNM on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 02:51:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope. Discussion refereed by Nobel winner Brian Josephson.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:12:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just because you have a Nobel, doesn't mean you're serious.

never let desperation get in the way of judgement.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:22:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Apparently, when it comes to QM being a physicist doesn't help much.

I very much like the table of different interpretations in the first lecture.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 05:19:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Once again cable is running a Hawaii Five 0 marathon; don't ask me why.



I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 02:55:51 PM EST
I've got a diary up at Big Orange about the windpower project involving schools that I put up in the open thread yesterday.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:00:00 PM EST
Couldn't respond yesterday, cuil (or google) community wind, add Minnesota or Dan Juhl. There's a whole program of various versions of community wind financing.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:17:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or contact Lisa Daniels

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:18:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wish I had more time to throw it together, but I'm sort of playing hookey, not doing what I should to write it up in the first place.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'm disappointed at the knee jerk reactions. Socialistic?

Seriously?

Like I said there, how do people think that rural areas in the US finally got electricity?  Or all those dams in the 1930s were built?

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:25:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the socialistic response was trying to anticipate the GOP chorus of negativity. That's exactly what they'd say, and they'd slag of the hoover dam too.

If it comes from a Dem it's just wrong.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:29:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I read it as plain snark.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 05:22:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought "socialistic" was snark, but DKos always surprises me...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:33:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bit of a hostile reception too. V strange. Maybe wind power projects have to come from JaP before they're accepted on dkos.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:26:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was really short on details, so maybe that's part of it.

But the kneejerk anti-wind sentiment always strikes me.

What's really disappointing is the total disbelief that a major expansion of wind power could drive electric prices down.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 04:23:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ManfromMiddletown:
What's really disappointing is the total disbelief that a major expansion of wind power could drive electric prices down.

mission accomplished!

down with bird-blenders, they make us dependent on dirty foreign wind! (and solar electric doesn't work)

no, virginia, the public is much too intelligent and aware to allow propaganda to affect its judgment.

alt energy brings down the price of energy to the public, which is proof of its satanic socialist intentions.

the barble said 'trust in authority', and i trust our corporate overlords to always do the right thing for us. after all, they love and care for us womb to tomb, how could they ever betray our trust in their entirely benign contributions to making our lives so privileged and comfortable?

they are rational actors, after all. if they say coal/nukes are they way forward, ours not to reason why.

better living through brain chemistry, read-ya mead-ya daily, don't let those stalinist hitler commie fascist libruls tell you how to live. death camps are next!

our asthma/cancer rates are the envy of the world, we are free! choke and gag, but wave that flag! think of the baby birds!

Hopeful pessimist, hopeless optimist, it's a fine line

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 12:58:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
rational actors

e.g. I'm a prick, you're a prick, and that's ok.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 10:42:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
once you make it past the little speed bump of morality, you're in like flynn. come on in out of the cold, join the winners' club, you know you want to...

embrace your dark side!

Hopeful pessimist, hopeless optimist, it's a fine line

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 01:25:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Finn who brought pizza to the east

1985 - 1995 was Wild East time.

In the new Russia, like the Soviet Union, it was important to have personal connections with the powerful.
      Rahunen was connected. St. Petersburg Mayor Anatoli Sobchak and his wife sometimes stopped over at Rahunen's office for coffee. President Mikhail Gorbachev would be seen talking to Rahunen at the Afrodite Restaurant.
      His charm even won over the Tambov mafia, one of the most influential crime syndicates of Northwestern Russia.
      "If a company did business in cash or exercises some other type of visible activities, it had no possibility to operate without an agreement with a protection racket of some kind, as there was no official security organisation", says Jukka Svahn, who delivered goods to several shops and restaurants in St. Petersburg.


You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:21:59 PM EST
First Bloomberg, now Hatch. Hard to believe I'm actually praising them. From TPM (with non-Youtube video).
A conservative Republican Senator has now come out strongly against efforts to block the construction of the Cordoba House Muslim community center near Ground Zero in New York: Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT).

In an interview with the local Fox affiliate in Salt Lake City, Hatch stated his support and past work for religious freedom. "So, if the Muslims own that property, that private property, and they want to build a mosque there, they should have the right to do so," said Hatch. He also discussed his past experiences dealing with discrimination against the construction of Mormon temples -- and when his late friend Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) helped him to resolve just such a dispute in Boston.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:33:39 PM EST
Eileen Left (EileenLeft) on Twitter
OMG! Are any of u Californians watching the debate of State Senate? Republicans have lost their FREAKIN' MINDS!!! More tax cuts for RICH!


never let desperation get in the way of judgement.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:37:52 PM EST
Absolutely predictable. Any ETer surprised?

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 04:11:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Who Could Have Predicted?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 04:29:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Could be a winner.



I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 05:27:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Grauniad: Who are the Labour leadership candidates?

Although Miliband has strong intellectual credentials, he is interested in organisation as well as ideas and he would probably seek to revive Labour campaigning at the grassroots. At Westminster he is seen as non-factional figure and he would lead in a collegiate manner. As one of the best communicators in the party, he would also become a magnet for media attention.

I'm always interested, Piaget-wise, in what people were doing from 0- 7. Eddie seems OK from that POV. The usual family-forged personality dynamic is that first-borns become the diplomats and second-borns the rebels. (Third-borns are the comedians).

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:44:13 PM EST
Out of interest I went to a David Miliband event yesterday.  It will be diared when I get a bit of spare time.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 05:10:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]


never let desperation get in the way of judgement.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 04:55:12 PM EST
Hmmm  Guido Fawkes William Hague and his driver story seems to be picking up speed, but not enough for any UK publication to risk the Libel courts yet (or for me to sensibly link to it either)

never let desperation get in the way of judgement.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 06:13:26 PM EST
What's the big deal if Hague is gay?

Yawn.

Modern conservatives engage in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.Galbraith

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 06:48:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wasn't Hague making a token stand against the party line on Austerity™?

No one sensible gives a monkeys what he gets up to in his spare time - except possibly his family, who may have an understandable personal interest.

But this kind of thing plays badly with the Daily Mail headbangers who don't approve of non-missionary goings on.

Tangentially, those of us who aren't Daily Mail headbangers may be wondering if perhaps there's going to be a replay of the last Tory Tubbies meltdown, which saw two former cabinet ministers doing jail time.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 07:07:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would think the argument will be if it does come to light that it's the employing an unqualified driver in a post would be seen as corrupt nepotism rather than the homosexuality itself being the problem. (Although the Daily fail will see it as part of its war on those that dont conform, and the Torygraph (Which has come closest that ive seen to printing the story) will have its full on catholic morality going full steam ahead


never let desperation get in the way of judgement.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 07:19:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A senior minister putting an alleged whatever-the-gay-word-for-mistress-is on expenses and supposedly giving them a job may not necessarily be a vote winner.

If this turns out to be more than tabloid tittle-tattle, it might even be considered officially beyond the duck pond.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 08:10:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
whatever-the-gay-word-for-mistress-is

man-whore? paid bitch? stick-shifter? where's the thesaurus when you really need it?

it's ok to be a log cabin tory, as long as fleet st looks the other way...  

Hopeful pessimist, hopeless optimist, it's a fine line

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 01:10:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's harsh and probably inappropriate. I don't think Teh Gay is the issue, although the 'mistress' thing might be. And I do wonder if Hague is getting special treatment for not being Osborne's poodle.

Realistically I'd be more than a little surprised if most of the Tory Tubbies didn't have their little friends of all ages and both sexes tucked away out of sight - some bought and paid for, some used occasionally and indifferently, some not. And the same would be true of the other lot too.

It's politics, not brain surgery.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 07:13:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Express has an article up on their website.

If you never fail, you're not trying hard enough.
by ATinNM on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 07:46:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the big problem for the tories is that, however much they pretend otherwise, theirs' is an overtly homophobic party. Yet they have always had a few in their ranks, closeted and not so closeted.

But Hague has always traded a bit on his bluff common-sense-talking yorkshire persona (regional stereotype alert), which is defiantly heterosexual, he even married a rather attractive woman to prove it. So, if he, a respected ex-leader of the conservative party, the anointed son of thatcher herself, were to come out as not-quite-as-hetero-as-he-wishes-everyone-to-think, it'd certainly cause a bit of a conniption with the overwhelming majority of the homophobic membership.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 07:04:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Krishnan Guru-Murthy (krishgm) on Twitter
Hague statement : Any suggestion that relationship with Chris Myers anything other than purely professional is "wholly inaccurate."


never let desperation get in the way of judgement.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 07:20:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nothing is true until it has been officially denied.

I believe John Profumo had never met Mandy Rice-Davis either.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 10:00:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 10:05:59 AM EST


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