LQD Occupy Wall Street update

by Ted Welch Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 01:43:45 PM EST

Globalization of protest:

The Occupy campaign may have hoped, at its launch, to inspire similar action elsewhere, but few can have foreseen that within four weeks, more than 900 cities around the world would host co-ordinated protests directly or loosely affiliated to the Occupy cause.

The exact targets of protesters' anger may differ from city to city and country to country. But while their numbers remain small in many places, activists argue that Saturday's demonstrations, many of which are still ongoing - and are pledged to remain so for the foreseeable future - are evidence of a growing wave of global anger at social and economic injustice.
"This is not a battle by youth or Chilean society," said Camila Vallejo, a Chilean student leader who has become a key figure in that country's protests, and who this week travelled to Europe to forge alliances with protest movements there. "This is a world battle that transcends all frontiers."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/17/occupy-movement-global-protest

Great rant:

Democratic Rep DeFazio "It's time for a new order.":

Krugman on "Panic of the Plutocrats":
"... if you were listening to talking heads on CNBC, you learned that the protesters "let their freak flags fly," and are "aligned with Lenin."
The way to understand all of this is to realize that it's part of a broader syndrome, in which wealthy Americans who benefit hugely from a system rigged in their favor react with hysteria to anyone who points out just how rigged the system is.
Last year, you may recall, a number of financial-industry barons went wild over very mild criticism from President Obama. They denounced Mr. Obama as being almost a socialist for endorsing the so-called Volcker rule, which would simply prohibit banks backed by federal guarantees from engaging in risky speculation. And as for their reaction to proposals to close a loophole that lets some of them pay remarkably low taxes -- well, Stephen Schwarzman, chairman of the Blackstone Group, compared it to Hitler's invasion of Poland.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opinion/panic-of-the-plutocrats.html

Matt Taibbi: My Advice to the Occupy Wall Street Protesters
Hit bankers where it hurts
" ... the primary challenge of opposing the 50-headed hydra of Wall Street corruption ... is that it's extremely difficult to explain the crimes of the modern financial elite in a simple visual. The essence of this particular sort of oligarchic power is its complexity and day-to-day invisibility: Its worst crimes, from bribery and insider trading and market manipulation, to backroom dominance of government and the usurping of the regulatory structure from within, simply can't be seen by the public or put on TV.

CF. Chomsky:
In fact, the structure of the news production system is, you can't produce evidence. There's even a name for it -- I learned it from the producer of Nightline, Jeff Greenfield. It's called "concision." He was asked in an interview somewhere why they didn't have me on Nightline, and his answer was -- two answers. First of all, he says, "Well, he talks Turkish, and nobody understands it." But the other answer was, "He lacks concision." Which is correct, I agree with him. The kinds of things that I would say on Nightline, you can't say in one sentence because they depart from standard religion. If you want to repeat the religion, you can get away with it between two commercials. If you want to say something that questions the religion, you're expected to give evidence, and that you can't do between two commercials. So therefore you lack concision, so therefore you can't talk.
I think that's a terrific technique of propaganda. To impose concision is a way of virtually guaranteeing that the party line gets repeated over and over again, and that nothing else is heard.
http://globetrotter.berkeley.edu/people2/Chomsky/chomsky-con3.html

...
I think the movement's basic strategy - to build numbers and stay in the fight, rather than tying itself to any particular set of principles - makes a lot of sense early on. But the time is rapidly approaching when the movement is going to have to offer concrete solutions to the problems posed by Wall Street. To do that, it will need a short but powerful list of demands. There are thousands one could make, but I'd suggest focusing on five:

Break up the monopolies. ...

Pay for your own bailouts. ...

No public money for private lobbying. ...

Tax hedge-fund gamblers. ...

Change the way bankers get paid.

...
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/my-advice-to-the-occupy-wall-street-protesters-20111012

LQD Occupy Wall Street update | 83 comments (83 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 3)

The Occupy campaign may have hoped, at its launch, to inspire similar action elsewhere, but few can have foreseen that within four weeks, more than 900 cities around the world would host co-ordinated protests directly or loosely affiliated to the Occupy cause.

Bullshit! The 15 October mobilizations had been planned for months and the Occupy Wall Street people intended to join the existing movement. Not the other way around.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 03:06:37 PM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 3)

The Guardian: Occupy movement: from local action to a global howl of protest

A month after its launch, more than 900 cities around the world have hosted protests affiliated to the Occupy cause
...
Reporting: Harriet Sherwood in Jerusalem, Helen Pidd in Berlin, Helena Smith in Athens, Giles Tremlett in Madrid, Tom Kington in Rome, Jonathan Franklin in Santiago

So I sent them the following reader comment:

Are your journalists reporting from 6 different cities really unaware that the 15 October protests had been planned for months, including a march on Brussels, and that "the Occupy Movement" originates with TakeTheSquare.net which dates at least from the Spring of this year? Really!?
You write:
A month to the day after 1,000 people first turned up in Wall Street to express their outrage at corporate greed and social inequality, campaigners are reflecting on a weekend that saw a relatively modest demonstration in New York swell into a truly global howl of protest.
The Occupy campaign may have hoped, at its launch, to inspire similar action elsewhere, but few can have foreseen that within four weeks, more than 900 cities around the world would host co-ordinated protests directly or loosely affiliated to the Occupy cause.
Here are two videos from 4 months ago calling for global "occupy" action on October 15:

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 03:24:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

The protests may have coalesced around the Occupy movement's suggested date of 15 October, but the wave of public anger did not, of course, begin in New York. Occupy Wall Street has acknowledged its debt to the Arab spring, and was inspired and partly organised in its earliest stages by the Canadian-based Adbusters campaign group. The Chilean and Israeli protests also predate the US campaign.
Spain's "indignados", or outraged, claim some credit for inspiring the protest, having begun camping out in Madrid's Puerta del Sol square in May, sparking similar long-term demonstrations around the country.
With at least 200,000 people coming out on to the streets on Saturday, the Spanish movement proved that it was still alive after a summer break in which many thought it had gone quiet. Protesters continue to occupy the "Hotel Madrid", which they broke into on Saturday, and a building in Barcelona.

Gaaaahhhh

There was no summer break, and the "suggested date of October 15" was suggested in May!

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 03:27:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Calm down, a bit of journalistic hyperbole, I'm sure SOME of the 900 demos were inspired by Occupy Wall Street, and I was about to add the section you've now quoted, which does make it clear that:

the wave of public anger did not, of course, begin in New York. Occupy Wall Street has acknowledged its debt to the Arab spring, and was inspired and partly organised in its earliest stages by the Canadian-based Adbusters campaign group. The Chilean and Israeli protests also predate the US campaign.
Spain's "indignados", or outraged, claim some credit for inspiring the protest

But if you want to get indignant about who anticipated who when - go ahead :-) I welcome the general growth of the movement with diverse roots as reported here:

Each movement has its own local flavour. The Israelis complained about housing, high cost of living and "social justice". For Chile, education was the catalyst. In Greece, it was a backlash against austerity. For Filipinos, US imperialism was apparently the target.

and the more positive media coverage it's getting after attempts to ignore or belittle it at the beginning.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 03:49:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 1)

The point is that until Americans jump on the bandwagon the "movement" can be safely ignored.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 03:51:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

That the English-language media continue to function within the same frame of reference.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 03:53:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

The cannot even register months of twitter activity in English around things like #worldRevolution or #15O, apparently.

I'm wondering if intelligence services around the world "pick up chatter" in the same inept way...

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 03:59:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Of course the movement has not been "ignored" and was covered, as it is in the article you're getting so indignant about, with its references to earlier protests and occupations, which were reported earlier. Back in May:

By the early hours of Friday, it was already elbow-room only in the Puerta del Sol - the square which prides itself on being Spain's "kilometre zero", the spot from which all other distances are measured.
On the statue of King Carlos III, somebody had pinned a sign that read: "We are anti-idiots, not anti-politicians." Other placards read: "We aren't against the system, we want to change it", "Democracy, a daily fight", and "Take your money out of the bank!"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/21/spain-reveals-pain-cuts-unemployment

They, in turn, acknowledged the example of the Arab spring:

So is the Arab spring spreading to southern Europe? "You can't really compare us to people who were risking their lives by protesting," said 23-year-old computer engineer Jaime Viyuela. "But yes, you can say that we are inspired by the courage of the Arab spring."

Which, of course, has been widely reported too.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 05:12:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

My point is the call for mobilizations on 15-October originated at TakeTheSquare.net in May/June this year. By the end on June planning for a march on Brussels was under way, which was supposed to get to Brussels within a week or two before 15 October in preparation for the "occupy" event. The Occupy Wall Street people planned to join that by occypying wall street on September 15 and build up to 15 October.

And now we're told that the 15 October event is a copycat of Wall St, that the date originated there, and that there' a vague connection to Tahrir, Syntagma or Sol.

You're free to believe whatever you want.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 05:18:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Anyway, this is like the coverage of the financial crisis. Once Lehman Brothers goes belly up and the newsies take notice that something is going on, the 14 months of crisis prior to that are completely erased form the conventional wisdom's collective memory.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 05:19:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 1)

I can't believe you Spaniards are trying to take credit for our protest.

/ducks

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 06:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 2)

LOL...

Contextualize this: 15October.net

We are just some of the many activists from around the world who worked to prepare the 15th of October protest. The web-page remained "anonymous" because we always believed that the ideas behind it belonged to anyone who recognized themselves in them. This movement is not guided, it is clearly born as a reaction to injustice and corruption around the world, and therefore it is destined to change the underlying values of the system, not only the rules of it. It is a global movement for true democracy and better human conditions, so this website reflects a collective idea, a movement without borders or leaders.
We are not responsible or representatives of any group. We are people who decided to participate in a web-platform for a social movement which rose up sponteneously.
Future Press Collective http://wlcentral.org/users/futurepress

WL Central: FuturePress

Beside still proudly playing an active role in Wikileaks Central, we also started the project EuropeanRevolution.net, where we hoped to include material that was not suitable for WLC journalistic standards. It was concieved as a informative platform for activists, and our first goal was to translate into English what was happening with the 15 May movement. We hoped to expand its impact in Europe by informing in English as an international language. Beside this, When other uprisings started, we followed the same procedure.
This led us to collaborate with TakeTheSquare.net project, originally formed as an extension of the International Committee of the camp that started in Sol. The idea was to create a task-force seeking structured change of the worldwide political reality- designed to bring the May 15th ideals to a global context. The broader context - relevant after movements started in the U.S. or Israel, for example - and the better infrastructure led us to participate full time with the project.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 06:18:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 1)

LOLOLOL

AboveTopSecret: Is it the "elites" that are organizing these "occupy" protests to bring in martial law?

So they are organizing a September 15, 2011 worldwide occupy protest. Look at this site... 15october.net...
So I did a who is search and this is what came up...
15OCTOBER.NET WHOIS
Updated: 1 second ago
Registrant:
Paulina Arcos
...
Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (www.godaddy.com...)
Domain Name: 15OCTOBER.NET
Created on: 12-Jul-11
Expires on: 12-Jul-12
Last Updated on: 21-Sep-11
Administrative Contact:
Arcos, Paulina europeanrevolution@vaultletsoft.com
...
New York, New York 10017
United States
...
Domain servers in listed order:
VENS.TOMALAPLAZA.NET
DNS.CIUDADRED.NET
Also I typed the name into a google search and the only thing that came up with that name on it is a list of spouses for a United Nations representative...

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 06:25:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Americans must "own" everything, ha-ha
But OK. If they wake up in numbers and really do something let them believe what they want.
The fact is that Europe can easily go on flame but core of the problem lays in USA. It's where this crime began and that is where it will end...eventually. So we all need them on our side.

by vbo on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 09:34:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Your point WAS: "The point is that until Americans jump on the bandwagon the "movement" can be safely ignored." - which was wrong, like so many such generalisations. So you retreat to the more specific, some might think nit-picking: "My point is the call for mobilizations on 15-October originated at TakeTheSquare.net in May/June this year."

There is not just a "vague connection to Tahrir, Syntagma or Sol" there's a clear statement that Occupy Wall Street was preceded and inspired by them:

the wave of public anger did not, of course, begin in New York. Occupy Wall Street has acknowledged its debt to the Arab spring, and was inspired and partly organised in its earliest stages by the Canadian-based Adbusters campaign group. The Chilean and Israeli protests also predate the US campaign.
Spain's "indignados", or outraged, claim some credit for inspiring the protest

Elsewhere in the Guardian:

Protests inspired by the Occupy Wall Street movement in New York and the "Indignants" in Spain have spread to cities around the world.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/16/occupy-protests-europe-london-assange

Cf.:

More than 950 demonstrations against the global financial system and corporate greed are being held in more than 80 countries around the world today. Inspired by the huge rallies organised by 15-M movement in Spain and more recently Occupy Wall Street, tens of thousands of people have taken to the streets from as far afield as Seoul and Rome.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/oct/15/occupy-wall-street-times-square

But you are free to harp on about your latest rather narrow point; however I think arguing about whose ball it is is less important than getting on with the game - together. Do you have any positive news from Spain about the movement there ?

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 09:12:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Maybe it's positive news that there were so many people out on the streets last Saturday that people who wanted to make statements (such as deploying banners or playing beethoven's 9th) were unable to be seen by most of the several hundred thousand people who were out in Madrid.

Other than that, I stand by my perception that Occupy Wall St. chose their dates (Sept. 15, Oct. 15) to jump on the bandwagon started rolling by others but the Guardian along with the rest of the English language press are now propagating the narrative that Oct 15 was everyone else joining Occupy Wall St.

But that's a side issue. I just wanted to get it on the record that massive Oct 15 protests were on the agenda and visible on the social networks for anyone who cared to look for 3 months before Occppy Wall St. went public. Interestingly, Occupy Wall St. managed to completely obscure in the media narrative arrival of the 2-month long walking March on Brussels and the camp that was set up there by activists from all over Europe.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 11:55:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Maybe the American reporters were confused and thought the Madrid people were Mexican and holding an immigrants' rights protest prior to October 15th or something. The FBI can't tell a Colombian from a Pakistani after all, and they're not nearly as stupid.

And maybe that then tripped up their toolbag cousins across the Pond.

Ted seems to make a fair point in the Guardian's favor though. But that's the Guardian. It's the least-idiotic paper in Britain (the Cleggtastrophe aside).

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 01:16:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Look, I'm not criticising OWS, I'm criticising the narrative I see in the English language media that it all started there a month ago.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 03:14:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Well, saying OWS "jumped on the band-wagon" may not be an "accusation" but it's not particularly fraternal either :-) Your supposed "English language media narrative" seems to be based on one sentence in one article in the Guardian - which, as I have pointed out repeatedly, is qualified by reference to the earlier protest movements.

Here's the Independent's narrative:

Protests against corporate greed, executive excess and public austerity began to gel into the beginnings of a worldwide movement yesterday as tens of thousands marched in scores of cities. The "Occupy Wall Street" protest, which started in Canada and spread to the US, and the long-running Spanish "Indignant" and Greek anti-cuts demonstrations coalesced on a day that saw marches or occupations in 82 countries.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/across-the-world-the-indignant-rise-up-against-corp orate-greed-and-cuts-2371357.html

The BBC link to the 15october.net site:

The global organisers of the 15 October protests said on their website (15october.net) that the aim was to "initiate the global change we want".
They said rallies would be held in 951 cities in 82 countries.

Move along, nothing to see here :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 03:48:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 1)

"Occupy Wall St. chose their dates (Sept. 15, Oct. 15) to jump on the bandwagon started rolling by others"

That's a rather cynical and divisive way of looking at it.

Those others saw Occupy Wall Street as comrades and OWS were happy to join with them and to publicise the organisation already done by others; from the occupywallst.org site, posted Oct 12:

October 15th Global Day Of Action
Posted Oct. 12, 2011, 3:57 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Hi, we write you from the International Commission of Sol, in Madrid (Spain). We know that you have a lot to do in the USA, as we have here in Spain, but the 15O is coming and we need you to make a milestone in history out of it. It's the great chance we expected to start a real global revolution! This is what we are doing, and could be wonderful if you join us:
Please spread the web page of the call http://15october.net/, the graphic material http://15october.net/spread-it/ and the videos http://15october.net/category/video/. And please send us your videos, banners, posters to contact.takethesquare@gmail.com so that we can compile them and put them in common. Send all of this through your mailing lists, to all your contacts, but also to all your friends.
Explain to everybody that this is not just one mobilization. It's more of "we are reinventing ourselves". Tell the occupiers how the movement is popping all over the world that extend from the streets of the Middle East to Wall Street. Also tell the occupiers that over 650 cities have already confirmed they will do an event on October 15th . You can check in http://map.15october.net/ and if a city plans to do an event invite; tell them to add it to the map.
http://map.15october.net/reports/submit Explain to them that 15O is the moment to wake up all of us together and especially tell them that it is in their hands to make it a success. It's not any more about parties, organizations or unions. The call should come from all of the organizations and from the people of the world like you. There is a text that could be very useful to send this last message: "who are you?" http://map.15october.net/page/index/1
It would be great to tell your friends abroad to spread it through their countries. We need one revolution in each single city of the world.
For a further explanation about the mobilization and a more specific plan there is a document written by the international network takethesquare. http://takethesquare.net/2011/09/24/15th-october-whats-the-plan-15oct/
http://occupywallst.org/article/october-15th-global-protest-info/

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 01:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

But if they don't frame it this way, it makes no sense that they did not report on it for months...

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 05:06:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

I posted this to all my FB people, so they will have their facts straight, though I'm doubting sharing of your info will go viral. Americans are all about the "we're number One," remember.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 01:47:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

The info about the planning already done by others was put up on the Occupy Wall Street site on Oct 12th, presumably by Americans, which helped it go viral:

October 15th Global Day Of Action
Posted Oct. 12, 2011, 3:57 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Hi, we write you from the International Commission of Sol, in Madrid (Spain). We know that you have a lot to do in the USA, as we have here in Spain, but the 15O is coming and we need you to make a milestone in history out of it. It's the great chance we expected to start a real global revolution! This is what we are doing, and could be wonderful if you join us:
Please spread the web page of the call http://15october.net/, the graphic material http://15october.net/spread-it/ and the videos http://15october.net/category/video/. And please send us your videos, banners, posters to contact.takethesquare@gmail.com so that we can compile them and put them in common. Send all of this through your mailing lists, to all your contacts, but also to all your friends.
http://occupywallst.org/article/october-15th-global-protest-info/

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 02:09:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 1)

A great set of photos from the demos around the world:

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-spreads-worldwide/100171/

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 05:23:40 PM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 1)

Yes, the intro gives too much credit to Occupy Wall Street - look at the photos - I like the guy in 25 :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 05:25:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Little Dylan Ratigan's never met a position he couldn't take. He's like a fat, pasty Charlie Crist.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 07:36:50 PM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

by vbo on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:07:41 PM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 3)

by vbo on Tue Oct 18th, 2011 at 10:14:55 PM EST

O'Reilly truly has become a caricature (none / 0)

of himself.

Point n'est besoin d'espérer pour entreprendre, ni de réussir pour persévérer. - Charles le Téméraire

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 09:06:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Rivera wimped out at the end. He always ends up as a wimp.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 02:12:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

I prefer to see the glass half-full; I don't think he "wimped out" - I took him to be ridiculing the idea of there being some big conspiracy behind it by saying the only threat is to sanitation. I thought it was good that he insisted on his experience of meeting the people involved and was generally sympathetic, accepted that they were opposed to Fox, which he represented. However like many others who are sympathetic he thought they needed to articulate more specific demands (see Taibbi above). I thought it was particularly good that he suggested that Beck was "paranoid and delusional" :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 02:42:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

I do see your points and agree with most, but I still thought his final words were basically dismissive. I got the feeling he wanted to make nice with his host.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Fri Oct 21st, 2011 at 01:45:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Well, I ask the jury to consider whether this more cynical version makes sense, when he'd resisted OReilly's more dismissive views up till then, had been clearly sympathetic but reasonably critical (they need to specify some demands), had already described Beck's talk of some wider conspiracy as "paranoid and delusional". Does it not seem more plausible, members of the jury, that when OReilly raised the question of a threat to the nation, Rivera was ridiculing this by saying the only "threat" was to sanitation in the square - a somewhat less serious matter ? I am confident that you will reach the right verdict and find my client innocent - even though, in wider sense, guilty by association with the Fox empire, which needs more radical cleansing than that of Liberty Square.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Oct 21st, 2011 at 03:24:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Heh. Yes, yes, I'm persuaded... just don't punish me by making me watch Fox.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Mon Oct 24th, 2011 at 07:33:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Occupy Wall Street: a participant's account. (4.00 / 2)

David Graeber: On Playing By The Rules - The Strange Success Of #OccupyWallStreet naked capitalism

By David Graeber, who is currently a Reader in Social Anthropology at Goldsmiths University London. Prior to that he was an associate professor of anthropology at Yale University. He is the author of `Debt: The First 5,000 Years' which is available from Amazon.

On August 2, I showed up at a 7 PM meeting at Bowling Green, that a Greek anarchist friend, who I'd met at a recent activist get together at 16 Beaver Street, had told me was meant to plan some kind of action on Wall Street in mid-September. At the time I was only vaguely aware of the background: that a month before, the Canadian magazine Adbusters had put out the call to "Occupy Wall Street", but had really just floated the idea on the internet, along with some very compelling graphics, to see if it would take hold; that a local anti-budget cut coalition top-heavy with NGOs, unions, and socialist groups had tried to take possession of the process and called for a "General Assembly" at Bowling Green. The title proved extremely misleading. When I arrived, I found the event had been effectively taken over by a veteran protest group called the Worker's World Party, most famous for having patched together ANSWER one of the two great anti-war coalitions, back in 2003. They had already set up their banners, megaphones, and were making speeches--after which, someone explained, they were planning on leading the 80-odd assembled people in a march past the Stock Exchange itself.
The usual reaction to this sort of thing is a kind of cynical, bitter resignation. "I wish they at least wouldn't advertise a `General Assembly' if they're not actually going to hold one." Actually, I think I actually said that, or something slightly less polite, to one of the organizers, a disturbingly large man, who immediately remarked, "well, fine. Why don't you leave?"
But as I paced about the Green, I noticed something. To adopt activist parlance: this wasn't really a crowds of verticals--that is, the sort of people whose idea of political action is to march around with signs under the control of one or another top-down protest movement. They were mostly pretty obviously horizontals: people more sympathetic with anarchist principles of organization, non-hierarchical forms of direct democracy, and direct action. I quickly spotted at least one Wobbly, a young Korean activist I remembered from some Food Not Bomb event, some college students wearing Zapatista paraphernalia, a Spanish couple who'd been involved with the indignados in Madrid... I found my Greek friends, an American I knew from street battles in Quebec during the Summit of the Americas in 2001, now turned labor organizer in Manhattan, a Japanese activist intellectual I'd known for years... My Greek friend looked at me and I looked at her and we both instantly realized the other was thinking the same thing: "Why are we so complacent? Why is it that every time we see something like this happening, we just mutter things and go home?" - though I think the way we put it was more like, "You know something? Fuck this shit. They advertised a general assembly. Let's hold one."
So we gathered up a few obvious horizontals and formed a circle, and tried to get everyone else to join us. Almost immediately people appeared from the main rally to disrupt it, calling us back with promises that a real democratic forum would soon break out on the podium. We complied. It didn't happen. My Greek friend made an impassioned speech and was effectively shooed off the stage. There were insults and vituperations. After about an hour of drama, we formed the circle again, and this time, almost everyone abandoned the rally and come over to our side. We created a decision-making process (we would operate by modified consensus) broke out into working groups (outreach, action, facilitation) and then reassembled to allow each group to report its collective decisions, and set up times for new meetings of both the smaller and larger groups. It was difficult to figure out what to do since we only had six weeks, not nearly enough time to plan a major action, let alone bus in the thousands of people that would be required to actually shut down Wall Street--and anyway we couldn't shut down Wall Street on the appointed day, since September 17, the day Adbusters had been advertising, was a Saturday. We also had no money of any kind.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 12:15:23 PM EST

Altemeyerian question (none / 0)

Verticals = Right-Wing Authoritarians?
Horizontals = Low RWA?

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 12:32:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Altemeyerian question (none / 0)

More like the Verticals are RWAs with the leaders being Social Dominates and the Horizontals are Left Wing Libertarians.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 01:09:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Occupy Wall Street: a participant's account. (4.00 / 5)

Graeber:

My first take on the question came when The Guardian asked me to write an oped on Occupy Wall Street a few days later. At the time I was inspired mainly by what Marisa Holmes, another brilliant organizer of the original occupation, had discovered in her work as a video documentarian, doing one-on-one interviews of fellow campers during the first two nights at Zucotti Square. Over and over she heard the same story: "I did everything I was supposed to! I worked hard, studied hard, got into college. Now I'm unemployed, with no prospects, and $50 to $80,000.00 in debt." These were kids who played by the rules, and were rewarded by a future of constant harassment, of being told they were worthless deadbeats by agents of those very financial institutions who--after having spectacularly failed to play by the rules, and crashing the world economy as a result, were saved and coddled by the government in all the ways that ordinary Americans such as themselves, equally spectacularly, were not.
"We are watching," I wrote, "the beginnings of the defiant self-assertion of a new generation of Americans, a generation who are looking forward to finishing their education with no jobs, no future, but still saddled with enormous and unforgivable debt." Three weeks later, after watching more and more elements of mainstream America clamber on board, I think this is still true. In a way, the demographic base of OWS is about as far as one can get from that of the Tea Party--with which it is so often, and so confusingly, compared. The popular base of the Tea Party was always middle aged suburban white Republicans, most of middling economic means, anti-intellectual, terrified of social change--above all, for fear that what they saw as their one remaining buffer of privilege (basically, their whiteness) might finally be stripped away. OWS, by contrast, is at core forwards-looking youth movement, just a group of forward-looking people who have been stopped dead in their tracks; of mixed class backgrounds but with a significant element of working class origins; their one strongest common feature being a remarkably high level of education. It's no coincidence that the epicenter of the Wall Street Occupation, and so many others, is an impromptu library: a library being not only a model of an alternative economy, where lending is from a communal pool, at 0% interest, and the currency being leant is knowledge, and the means to understanding.
In a way, this is nothing new. Revolutionary coalitions have always tended to consist of a kind of alliance between children of the professional classes who reject their parents' values, and talented children of the popular classes who managed to win themselves a bourgeois education, only to discover that acquiring a bourgeois education does not actually mean one gets to become a member of the bourgeoisie. You see the pattern repeated over and over, in country after country: Chou Enlai meets Mao Tse Tung, or Che Guevara meets Fidel Castro. Even US counter-insurgency experts have long known the surest harbingers of revolutionary ferment in any country is the growth of a population of unemployed and impoverished college graduates: that is, young people bursting with energy, with plenty of time on their hands, every reason to be angry, and access to the entire history of radical thought. In the US, the depredations of the student loan system simply ensures such budding revolutionaries cannot fail to identify banks as their primary enemy, or to understand the role of the Federal Government--which maintains the student loan program, and ensures that their loans will be held over their heads forever, even in the event of bankruptcy--in maintaining the banking system's ultimate control over every aspect of their future lives.

I think this is exactly right. The original 15-May protest in Madrid was called with the following poster:

Youth without future
No house
No Job
No pension
No fear

People join the movement who are not "youth" because they feel solidarity with those youth without future. Usually because they can imagine themselves or their children in the shoes of the current youth.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 12:47:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Occupy Wall Street: a participant's account. (none / 0)

There is lots of good stuff in the article, with this being some of the best. I couldn't bring myself to post more after posting so much to begin with. His point about the coincidence of the demographics of student debt and the historical demographics of revolutionary leadership is excellent.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 02:34:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Occupy Wall Street: a participant's account. (none / 0)

If we discuss it enough, maybe we can get Graeber to post here. I've noticed he's very active online: he joins in in the discussions of reviews of his book on Amazon, he's been posting in the discussions on Naked Capitalism and so on.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Oct 20th, 2011 at 02:16:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Occupy Wall Street: a participant's account. (4.00 / 2)

In a slightly circular way (but in fact reflective of the fact that this is an ongoing multithreaded conversation), when he talks about neofeudalism Graeber cites a blog which quotes the following which quotes other Graeber writing: Parsing the Data and Ideology of the We Are 99% Tumblr

Let's bring up a favorite quote around here. Anthropologist David Graeber cites historian Moses Finley, who identified "the perennial revolutionary programme of antiquity, cancel debts and redistribute the land, the slogan of a peasantry, not of a working class." And think through these cases. The overwhelming majority of these statements are actionable demands in the form of (i) free us from the bondage of these debts and (ii) give us a bare minimum to survive on in order to lead decent lives (or, in pre-Industrial terms, give us some land). In Finley's terms, these are the demands of a peasantry, not a working class.
The actual ideology of modernity, broadly speaking, is absent. There isn't the affluenza of Freddie's worries, no demands for cheap gas, cheaper credit, giant houses, bigger electronics all under the cynical "Ownership Society" banner. The demands are broadly health care, education and not to feel exploited at the high-level, and the desire to not live month-to-month on bills, food and rent and under less of the burden of debt at the practical level.
The people in the tumblr aren't demanding to bring democracy into the workplace via large-scale unionization, much less shorter work days and more pay. They aren't talking the language of mid-twentieth century liberalism, where everyone puts on blindfolds and cuts slices of pie to share. The 99% looks too beaten down to demand anything as grand as "fairness" in their distribution of the economy. There's no calls for some sort of post-industrial personal fulfillment in their labor - very few even invoke the idea that a job should "mean something." It's straight out of antiquity - free us from the bondage of our debts and give us a basic ability to survive.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 20th, 2011 at 09:28:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Occupy Wall Street: a participant's account. (4.00 / 3)

I highly recommend his new book "Debt: The First 5,000 Years". I can't remember a book that so systematically overturns received wisdom on every page, whether it's the standard economic myth of barter leading to money, or (for the middle ages) taking Islam as the centre of "the West" (with Adam Smith possibly taking his most famous examples from Muslim sources), or dealing with Niall Ferguson in a way that makes clear that they are in totally different moral universes. It's written so well that I ended up reading it much too quickly, and really should go back and reread it more carefully.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Oct 20th, 2011 at 11:13:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Occupy Wall Street: a participant's account. (none / 0)

Ordered.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 20th, 2011 at 11:50:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Occupy Wall Street: a participant's account. (none / 0)

See also the Naked Capitalism article quoted here (on the standard economics myth of barter).

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 20th, 2011 at 12:08:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 3)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 02:00:14 PM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 1)

"Solidarity" a good word to keep in mind :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 02:06:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 1)

Survey by FAIR of changing media attitudes to OWS:

"Starbucks-sipping, Levi's-clad, iPhone-clutching protesters denounce corporate America even as they weep for Steve Jobs," Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer explained (10/14/11). Krauthammer maligned the protesters as "indigant indolents saddled with their $50,000 student loans and English degrees" whose policy proposal boils down to "Eat the rich."
In the New York Times (10/17/11), former executive editor Bill Keller devoted a column about the "good news" happening around in the world--none of which has to do with the global movement against inequality: "Bored by the soggy sleep-ins and warmed-over anarchism of Occupy Wall Street?" Keller asks, before cheering Slovakia's position on European Union bailout, which has done more "than the cumulative protests of Occupy Wall Street have done in a month of poster-waving." A column by the Times' David Brooks (10/11/11) dismissed the protesters as "Milquetoast Radicals."
But overall the protests have received significant and sustained media attention. This is surprising, given corporate media's history of marginalizing or belittling progressive protest movements (Extra!, 7-8/00; 7-8/05, 7/11).
So why are things different this time around?
From the very start, activists were criticizing the media for paying little attention to the demonstrations (FAIR Action Alert, 9/23/11). This likely had some impact, as did the persistence of certain media figures--Current TV's Keith Olbermann and MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell among them--in essentially shaming the corporate media into paying more attention.
One of the core complaints--that the media could hardly justify silence on OWS, given their keen interest in any Tea Party activism (Extra! 12/09, 9/10)--probably weighed on the minds of some editors and producers as well.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=4420

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 06:03:13 PM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

indigant

a new hybrid word enters the RW lexicon, a X between indignant and indigent, i guess...

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Oct 19th, 2011 at 10:10:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 3)

Jay Smooth explains how the 3-card monte explains the reactions

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 20th, 2011 at 03:58:32 AM EST

The New Yorker's Take ;-) (4.00 / 2)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Oct 20th, 2011 at 11:26:50 AM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Hundreds of people inspired by the Occupy Wall Street protest in New York have taken to the streets in Sydney's CBD to protest against corporate ...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-21/city-square-protestors-ordered-out/3591210

There have been violent clashes between activists and police who are trying to clear Occupy Melbourne protesters from the city's CBD.

by vbo on Fri Oct 21st, 2011 at 01:18:50 AM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Riot and mounted police dragged more than 100 protesters from City Square in chaotic scenes in front of thousands of onlookers.
The scuffles have also spilled onto Swanston Street, where police ran horses through the crowd that has blocked the intersection with Collins Street.
A large contingent of police is forcing the activists away from the square.
It is not clear how many people have been arrested or hurt.
One of the protesters says he was capsicum sprayed by police.
"I've been throwing water on my eyes, I've been rubbing onion in my eyes, I've even thrown milk on eyes to cool the sting, but my face is still on fire so I'm going to go off to the ambulance now," he said.
The protesters refused to obey an eviction order served by the Melbourne City Council this morning.
Police tore down temporary barricades surrounding the protestors, who linked arms and would not move.
The activists have vowed to continue their protest.
Superintendent Rod Wilson says police are prepared to use force.

by vbo on Fri Oct 21st, 2011 at 01:27:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

They still try to evict them because Queen is coming so they do not want to disturb poor oldie, ha-ha. But time is running out and there will be blood...

by vbo on Fri Oct 21st, 2011 at 03:23:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Demand number 1 (none / 1)

in my opinion, is: Nationalize the FED.
I'm surprized that was omitted from the list of 5.

by Lynch on Fri Oct 21st, 2011 at 02:21:32 PM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Jon Stewart and Al Sharpton on OWS:

http://gawker.com/5851590/jon-stewart-are-we-expecting-too-much-from-occupy-wall-street

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Oct 21st, 2011 at 05:08:04 PM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Undercover cop...

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/occupy-wall-street-s-hipster-cop-1319213921-slideshow/;_ylt=Aq.lM4GAozG LY.hnbwt5.rH09XQA;_ylu=X3oDMTM3dHZtYWZhBG1pdAMEcGtnA2ZiZjlhZjAzLTJlYjktMzUxMi04MjE5LWM5ZDUwZGM1ZTdmY wRwb3MDMwRzZWMDZW5kX3NzBHZlcgNmNDc1Zjk2Yy1mYzAwLTExZTAtOTI1MS1hN2RiODczY2VjODE-;_ylv=3

by vbo on Fri Oct 21st, 2011 at 09:22:55 PM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Arn't we confused a bit...

by vbo on Fri Oct 21st, 2011 at 09:39:50 PM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 1)

And this is how right fights back (using children)...

Yeah right...Viva McDonalds !

by vbo on Sat Oct 22nd, 2011 at 02:27:57 AM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 3)

Computer scientists are more likely to be (right-wing) libertarians.

There are no jobs to be had - haven't these people seen the statistics or do they actually believe the Great Depression was the Great Vacation?

The jab about student debt to get into the humanities... Student debt is something that has been encouraged by society at large. There is an interplay between personal responsibility and doing "what is done" or what "needs to be done". What the student debt complaints are about really is "the adult generations drilled into my head that this was the way I should do things when I grew up - wel here I am, I've done what I was taught and then they hung me out to dry". The answer in the photo is "boo fucking hoo", basically. See David Graeber's On Playing By The Rules

At the time I was inspired mainly by what Marisa Holmes, another brilliant organizer of the original occupation, had discovered in her work as a video documentarian, doing one-on-one interviews of fellow campers during the first two nights at Zucotti Square. Over and over she heard the same story: "I did everything I was supposed to! I worked hard, studied hard, got into college. Now I'm unemployed, with no prospects, and $50 to $80,000.00 in debt." These were kids who played by the rules, and were rewarded by a future of constant harassment, of being told they were worthless deadbeats by agents of those very financial institutions who--after having spectacularly failed to play by the rules, and crashing the world economy as a result, were saved and coddled by the government in all the ways that ordinary Americans such as themselves, equally spectacularly, were not.
...
... In politics, too, as in education, we are looking at a generation of young people who played by the rules, and have seen their efforts prove absolutely fruitless. We must remember that in 2008, the youth vote went overwhelmingly to Barrack Obama and the Democrats. We also have to remember that Obama was running, then, as a candidate of "Change", using a campaign language that drew liberally from that of radical social movements ("yes we can!", "be the change!"), and that as a former community organizer, he was one of the few candidates in recent memory who could be said to have emerged from a social movement background rather than from smoke-filled rooms. This, combined with the fact that Obama was Black, gave young people a sense that they were experiencing a genuinely transformative moment in American politics.
...
How, then, do you expect a young American voter to feel, after casting a vote for a fundamental change to our political and economic system, on discovering that in fact, they have elected a man who twenty years ago would have been considered a moderate conservative?

It is, of course, always possible to retort "well, you have learned your lesson about the real world, pick up the pieces and move on".

The "GetAJobYouHippie" photo is a reply to this photo which went viral (I first saw it here, following up on a link from Graeber's article:

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 22nd, 2011 at 03:22:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 4)

Migeru:

"I did everything I was supposed to! I worked hard, studied hard, got into college. Now I'm unemployed, with no prospects, and $50 to $80,000.00 in debt." These were kids who played by the rules,

it's the breakdown of the generational pact...i invest in my childrens' education, to up my chances of having intelligent loving family support in my years of dotage.

they (the kids) defer gratification to learn from the older generations the accrued skills necessary to run the world when it is their turn.

the reality is the elders have betrayed the pact by hocking off next generation's education to financial speculation, (like every freaking thing else).

but if people are willing and complicit in selling off our own chances of survival / habitat, it should not be a shock their kids' educational future is on the auction block too...

reptiles are not known for sentimentality.

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Oct 22nd, 2011 at 05:06:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's all about overshoot. (4.00 / 5)

As a generation, expecting our children to pay for their own education is one of the evillest things we have done.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Sat Oct 22nd, 2011 at 08:44:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's all about overshoot. (4.00 / 4)

And expect our parents to pay for their own retirement.

There is no intergenerational solidarity left in the system.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 22nd, 2011 at 04:58:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's all about overshoot. (none / 1)

Yeah...it is a total destruction of a family as such. But then again it is their goal. We are all just a consumers for them.

by vbo on Sat Oct 22nd, 2011 at 07:53:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's all about overshoot. (none / 0)

Whose goal? People have been doing this to themselves and their families for maybe 30 years...

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Oct 23rd, 2011 at 05:16:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's all about overshoot. (4.00 / 2)

The essence of "reform" was exchanging public purpose and solidarity for market forces. Or short-termism and greed if you prefer. All of it accompanied with an unceasing media barrage.
You are not wrong to say that people have been doing it to themselves but that doesn't mean there is no man behind the curtain.

Von überall könnte das Volk, Urbrut alles Undemokratischen, Zelle des Terrors, über die gewählten Hüter von Wachstum und Wohlstand® kommen. - flatter

by generic on Sun Oct 23rd, 2011 at 07:13:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's all about overshoot. (4.00 / 2)

Whose goal?

The goal of those who have worked to delegitimate and privatize Social Security and roll back governmental regulations. Yes, the yuppies and those who followed have done this to themselves, but not in a vacuum, not without encouragement and justification and not without the purchased complicity of the main stream media.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Oct 23rd, 2011 at 07:14:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's all about overshoot. (none / 1)

Well those who engineered this endless consumption as a culture and encouraged people (trough all means) to go for it. And we all know who they are. I do not need to spell it...
Those who used to send us numerous credit cards that we never asked for. Those who used to offer us more and more credits on our house equity. "Yes you (we) can" people...
Those who arranged for minimal wages that are so minimal so we HAD to take those credits. Those who encouraged our kids to leave school and work at Mc Donald's for peanuts so that they can leave parents home at the age of 15. Those who offered student's credits for degrees that our kids can use their diplomas as toilet paper now and are in debt for life. Those who are pushing our kids to go to do the Master now in order to get a job or stay in a job...and get more credit. After that they will ask for PhD just to get a bloody job and start with $30000 (that is for us lucky enough to leave over the oceans)...Those who tell us now that "it's OK not to be OK". Those who made us so poor that we cannot educate our children and who are working tirelessly to make our children even more poor (and busy) so that they cannot support us and help when we need it. And even worse who made us through this process so insensitive to the needs of our own blood.
List is endless. We know who they are and how very well they organised themself. It's not conspiracy theory...its reality.

by vbo on Sun Oct 23rd, 2011 at 08:22:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

There is also some sense of Ireland, Portugal and Spain also "playing by the rules" and being left by the wayside now. Specifically Spain still has less debt than France and Germany who also conspired to change the rules when it was likely that they would be cautioned for their breach.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Oct 23rd, 2011 at 05:19:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 2)

Working Link.

Also this:

Von überall könnte das Volk, Urbrut alles Undemokratischen, Zelle des Terrors, über die gewählten Hüter von Wachstum und Wohlstand® kommen. - flatter

by generic on Sat Oct 22nd, 2011 at 06:19:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 1)

Lawyers call for Occupy inquiry

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/video/2158204939/Lawyers-call-for-Occupy-inquiry

by vbo on Sat Oct 22nd, 2011 at 05:45:33 AM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 1)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Oct 23rd, 2011 at 05:50:43 PM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 2)

The nice people in the 1%

http://westandwiththe99percent.tumblr.com/

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Oct 23rd, 2011 at 05:52:42 PM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 4)

Growing up my parents provided for my needs. Like most of my peers I didn't need to work part-time to pay for my first degree like my father did. My mother didn't work for her education but she was the first or second higher education graduate from her small village. My country provided me with debt-free public education and health care. My current income puts me around the top 1% worldwide depending on how you measure that.

So I don't know whether I'm in the 1% but I am definitely of the 99%. I feel privileged and I don't see how the next generation is going to enjoy the access to public health and education that I did enjoy.

It doesn't matter who you are - one has to stand with the 99%. There are plenty of the 99% who stand with the 1% out of a bitter feeling of self-reliance.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Oct 23rd, 2011 at 06:37:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Bible stands with the 99% (none / 1)

Biblegateway: Proverbs 16:19

Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 24th, 2011 at 05:41:32 AM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Are they still there?
Here in Melbourne police managed to brutally disperse them...

by vbo on Mon Oct 24th, 2011 at 08:23:32 AM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 3)

The Occupy Wall Street protests may or may not grow into a political force pursuing a specific legislative agenda through normal systems, but there can be little doubt at this point that the protests have struck a chord with a large swath of Americans.
If nothing else, the movement has established itself as a cultural phenomenon with surprising staying power, and as someone who wasn't sure that it would catch hold, I must echo the young woman in the restaurant: that's just cool.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/22/opinion/blow-occupy-apalooza-strikes-a-chord.html

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Oct 24th, 2011 at 12:09:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 2)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon Oct 24th, 2011 at 06:11:01 PM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 2)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon Oct 24th, 2011 at 06:19:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (4.00 / 3)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon Oct 24th, 2011 at 06:25:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Protest will need to expand beyond street protest. Thanks to Internet many different actions can be done. And then again when there is a good cause they can go on the streets again. I hope they understand this.

by vbo on Mon Oct 24th, 2011 at 09:03:35 PM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Twitter / @occupyoakland: #occupyoakland attacked by ...

#occupyoakland attacked by 500 cops in suprise assault. tear gas, rubber bullets, shotguns, flash bang grenades. Many injured.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Oct 25th, 2011 at 08:49:52 AM EST

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

Cops arrest Occupy Oakland protesters

Oakland police arrested dozens of people at a plaza outside City Hall and at a second, smaller camp nearby, two weeks after the protesters launched their efforts as part of the Occupy Wall Street movement against corporate greed and economic inequality.
At about 4:57 a.m., officers began making arrests and removing tents and makeshift shelters at the Occupy Oakland protest at Frank Ogawa Plaza near 14th Street and Broadway. By 5:05 a.m., the bulk of the arrests had been completed, and arrestees were led away in plastic handcuffs.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Oct 25th, 2011 at 10:06:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LQD Occupy Wall Street update (none / 0)

by vbo on Sat Oct 29th, 2011 at 12:28:07 AM EST

LQD Occupy Wall Street update | 83 comments (83 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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LQD Occupy Wall Street update

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