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Egypt: What Now?

by afew Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:51:29 AM EST

After Mubarak's refusal to step down, the situation looks confused (quite probably within the power base), and this in its turn offers dangerous perspectives.

Live blog Feb 11 - Egypt protests | Al Jazeera Blogs

5:52am Thousands of protesters have moved overnight towards the sensitive presidential palace, in the upscale neighbourhood of Heliopolis in central Cairo.

In addition to Tahrir Square, pro-democracy protests have already blocked access to the parliament building near the Liberation Square.

Thousands of protesters were also surrounding the radio and television building in Cairo, which they see as a mouthpiece for Mubarak's regime.

Many more protestors are likely to gather. Mubarak may intend to order the army to smash them. It is far from certain the army would heed that call. It may be that soldiers and younger officers are sympathetic to the protests, or at least would refuse to fire on the people. Things might boil down to a split in the military.

Use this as an open thread to follow today's events.

Update:

Live blog Feb 11 - Egypt protests | Al Jazeera Blogs

6:03pm: He's gone. He's resigned. 30 years of Mubarak rule is over. Omar Suleiman says:

President Hosni Mubarak has waived the office of president


Display:
Live blog Feb 11 - Egypt protests | Al Jazeera Blogs
9:24am The state news agency MENA says Egyptian military leaders have held an "important"' meeting and will issue a statement to the people. MENA says the chief commander and defence minister Hussein Tantawi chaired the meeting of the Armed Forces Supreme Council.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 03:15:05 AM EST
Live blog Feb 11 - Egypt protests | Al Jazeera Blogs

9:51am: An army officer joining protests in Cairo's Tahrir Square says 15 other middle-ranking officers have also gone over to the demonstrators.

"The armed forces' solidarity movement with the people has begun," Major Ahmed Ali Shouman tells Reuters.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 03:17:33 AM EST
Binyamin Ben-Eliezer of Israel's Labor Party says he spoke with Mubarak just hours before the president's speech yesterday in which he transferred authorities to his deputy but refused to step down.

Ben-Eliezer told Army Radio that Mubarak knew "this was the end of the road" and wanted only to "leave in an honorable fashion."




It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 03:46:14 AM EST
Faulty comment on Egypt by Panetta leads to confusion

CIA Director Leon Panetta helped touch off an avalanche of erroneous expectations Thursday when he testified that there was a "strong likelihood" that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak would step down by the end of the day.

Within minutes, senior aides to Panetta sought to tamp down the impact, saying he was merely referring to media reports. But by then, the comments had ricocheted around the Internet, underscoring U.S. confusion about events unfolding in Egypt, as well as the perils of publicly weighing in on such developments while serving as director of CIA.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 04:08:06 AM EST
Responding to the Worst Speech Ever | Marc Lynch
I don't think anyone really knows how things will break in the next 12-36 hours.  It seems pretty clear that most people, from the Obama administration to Egyptian government and opposition leaders, expected Mubarak to announce his departure tonight -- and that they had good reasons to believe that.   That turned out to be wrong.   As I just mentioned on the BBC, I don't think anybody knows what's going on inside Mubarak's head right now, though he certainly seems out of touch with what is really going on.  I suspect that his decision may have changed from earlier in the day, and that people inside the Egyptian military and regime are themselves scrambling to figure out their next move.   If the military has any plans to step in this would be a good time -- especially after the military's communique #1 seemed to suggest that it was breaking in the other direction. 

Plus:

UPDATE, 9:30pm:   The Cable has posted the full text of President Obama's statement following the Mubarak speech.  It is a strong statement:  "The Egyptian government must put forward a credible, concrete and unequivocal path toward genuine democracy, and they have not yet seized that opportunity. "  The calls to restrain violence and listen to the voice of the Egyptian people are also important.  Let's hope that the message gets through before things get (more) out of control.
by Nomad on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 04:12:15 AM EST
Live blog Feb 11 - Egypt protests | Al Jazeera Blogs
11:09am: Massive crowds in Tahrir are chanting "the people and the army are hand in hand".
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 04:22:18 AM EST
Fascinating article regarding the intricate planning of the beginning stages of the protest

HERE.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin

by Crazy Horse on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 04:28:10 AM EST

After his release from detention Sunday, Google Inc. executive Wael Ghonim recounted his meeting with Egypt's newly appointed interior minister. "No one understood how you did it," Mr. Ghonim said the minister told him. He said his interrogators concluded that outside forces had to have been involved.
....
They sent small teams to do reconnaissance on the secret 21st site. It was the Bulaq al-Dakrour neighborhood's Hayiss Sweet Shop, whose storefront and tiled sidewalk plaza--meant to accommodate outdoor tables in warmer months--would make an easy-to-find rallying point in an otherwise tangled neighborhood no different from countless others around the city.


"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin
by Crazy Horse on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 04:31:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On Jan. 25, the first day of protests, the organizers from the youth wings of Egypt's opposition movements created what appeared to be a spontaneous massing of residents of the slum of Bulaq al-Dakrour, on Cairo's western edge. These demonstrators weren't, as the popular narrative has held, educated youth who learned about protests on the Internet. They were instead poor residents who filled a maze of muddy, narrow alleyways, massed in front of a neighborhood candy store and caught security forces flatfooted.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 04:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"I went down and I said I am not coming back, and I wrote on every street wall that I am not coming back.

"All barriers have been broken down, our weapon was our dream, and the future is crystal clear to us, we have been waiting for a long time, we are still searching for our place, we keep searching for a place we belong too, in every corner in our country.

"The sound of freedom is calling, in every street corner in our country, the sound of freedom is calling..

"We will re-write history, if you are one of us, join us and don't stop us from fulfilling our dream.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 05:10:09 AM EST
Egypt army says ready to lift state of emergency - Israel News, Ynetnews
Egypt's powerful army said on Friday it would lift emergency law "as soon as current circumstances end," conceding a key demand to anti-government protesters but indicating it wanted them off the streets. The army said in "Communique No. 2" that it "confirms the lifting of the state of emergency as soon as the current circumstances end," a promise that would remove a law imposed for 30 years that protesters say is used to stifle dissent.


Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 05:24:51 AM EST
Communique No 2 from the Armed Forces: "A message from the Armed Forces to the Noble Egyptian People: our next Communique to you will be No 3."

An army of midgets, in awe of the old man. Who is too full of himself to accept his destiny.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 06:14:46 AM EST
I think the fact that Mubarak can not accept the writing on the wall decreases the chance of another military man taking over. If the military could deliver symbolic change they might split the opposition, but with a stubborn egocentric in charge that is hard to accomplish.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 07:53:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think so too. The army (ie the upper echelons) are now in a spot. If Mubarak had gone, they could have swung things in an "orderly transition" in their favour. They still might, but it's become much more difficult. If they now try to put down the revolt by force, one, they will lose part of their power based on the positive image of the people's army, two, they will face refusal to obey orders from middling to lower officers and soldiers (many of whom are conscripts).

I imagine they're trying to get Mubarak to leave power even now. But he can read the cards too, and he doesn't want to play along.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 08:01:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
a youngish, charismatic successor...

... who would have to take his chances in an open election. I honestly don't think they can afford to mess with the presidentials.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 08:04:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Egyptians hold 'Farewell Friday' - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

Pro-democracy protesters in Egypt are calling for "millions" to take to the streets across the country in what could become the largest protests so far, a day after President Hosni Mubarak repeated his refusal to step down.

Massive crowds gathered in Tahrir Square ahead on Friday, chanting "the army and the people are one, hand in hand"

I sure hope this ends well.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt t gmail dotcom) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 07:11:00 AM EST
I'm taking notes for when this comes to my neighborhood. This is simply prologue.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 08:39:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The BBC and al-Arabiya are apparently saying Mubarak has left the country.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 07:32:32 AM EST
Unrest in Egypt | Page 30 | Liveblog live blogging | Reuters.com
Minutes after the initial report from Al Arabiya came out, they issued an adjustment saying that Mubarak and his family left Cairo, not Egypt
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 07:37:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, now saying he's gone to Sharm el-Sheikh for "a break," according to the Grauniad.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 07:38:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Today's XKCD:

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 07:43:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
like a suspended chord...

or a crowd bent on democracy, waiting patiently.

heh, a fux nooz reporter just said the cairo protestors are egyptian tea baggers!

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:39:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Has the king retreated to Versailles? Surely a sign of strength.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 07:45:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't see it...

But at some point they will get it right... These announcements have been popping up for over 2 weeks now.

by Nomad on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 07:44:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Here.  But they've corrected it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 07:47:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reportedly he's left Cairo for Shark el Sheikh.

Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 10:01:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Deliberate typo?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 10:25:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, Freudian faux-pas?

LOL

Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 10:34:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reminds me of that "Sharks with friggin' laser beams attached to their heads" brouhaha at Sharm El-Sheikh two months ago.
by Bernard on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:45:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Headline of the Day:

Mubarak RickRolls Protesters


Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 08:04:06 AM EST
I'd just like to note how comforting it is to know that the CIA once again has no idea what's going on even in a country where gathering intelligence should be relatively easy (compared with, say, Iraq or Iran).

Heckuva job, Spookies.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 08:13:29 AM EST
I've been looking for this all day: Transcript of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's Television Address
In the name of Allah, the merciful, the compassionate, dear fellow citizens, my sons, the youth of Egypt, and daughters, I am addressing you tonight to the youth of Egypt in Tahrir Square, with all of its diversity. I am addressing all of you from the heart, a speech from the father to his sons and daughters. I am telling you that I am very grateful and am so proud of you for being a symbolic generation that is calling for change to the better, that is dreaming for a better future, and is making the future.


Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 09:59:01 AM EST
Danke Migs.


I'm looking forward to the support of all those who are careful about the security and want a secure Egypt, within a tangible time, with the harmony of the broad base of all Egyptians that will stay watchful to guard Egypt and under the command of its military forces.
....
Let me say again that I have lived for this nation. I have kept my responsibilities. And Egypt will remain, above all, and above any individuals -- Egypt will remain until I deliver and surrender its -- it to others. This will be the land of my living and my death. It will remain a dear land to me. I will not leave it nor depart it until I am buried in the ground.

another interesting part of the translation is that the only paragraph in the entire speech where the translator has problems (because of mubarak hiding his voice in lies?) is where he speaks of the transfer to the VP.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin

by Crazy Horse on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 10:17:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Live blog Feb 11 - Egypt protests | Al Jazeera Blogs
4:39pm The Egyptian presidency is to make an "urgent and important" statement shortly, state television says.

Since elsewhere it is being reported Mubarak handed over authority to Suleiman, what does the "Egyptian presidency" now mean?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 10:25:02 AM EST
Mubarak is going to imminently make (another) Very Important Speech...

(from Al Jaz blog)
4:53pm Military helicopters arrive at Cairo's Presidential Palace ahead of expected statement - more details soon.

4:39pm The Egyptian presidency is to make an "urgent and important" statement shortly, state television says.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 10:26:30 AM EST
Live blog Feb 11 - Egypt protests | Al Jazeera Blogs

6:03pm: He's gone. He's resigned. 30 years of Mubarak rule is over. Omar Suleiman says:

President Hosni Mubarak has waived the office of president

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:07:27 AM EST
Meaningless.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:10:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At the moment, that doesn't seem to be what the Egyptians think.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:19:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... then we can start talking about regime change.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:21:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
please.
by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:23:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I get that a lot recently.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 03:45:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What? No blood? No beheadings? What the hell these Arabs are thinking? It's not the proper way to make a revolution! Twank is disappointed.

"People only accept change when they are faced with necessity, and only recognize necessity when a crisis is upon them." - Jean Monnet
by Melanchthon on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:58:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
no Twank is a typical American  -  any excuse or rationalization not to get up off the couch and do something similar.
by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:03:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
no Twank is a typical American

Really?!!  Where do I meet more people like myself? I've never met anyone even close to who I am.

I repeat !!!  Meaningless !!

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 03:49:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you would, if you ever got up out of the couch.
by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 04:43:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OH BOO HOO! You people are so mean to me! :)

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 05:28:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I remember when Nixon flew off in his helicopter, when the US was booted out of Viet Nam, and I thought that things would finally get better after the bullshit of the '60s. So, look at today in the US compared to then and tell me all of the things which have gotten better by getting rid of one asshole. I'll wait.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 05:31:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True, except you're talking about the US, with the most sophisticated propaganda machine in the world (not counting China), and global economic control. (Not counting recent changes from Asia.) Against well-meaning but naive counter-culture.

Here, we're talking people who've been under a known boot for decades. Meaningless, not.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin

by Crazy Horse on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 05:44:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I shall take a wait and see, and shut up attitude. Not easy for me as you well know.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 05:50:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
resigned?

with a gun to his head, or perhaps he has no head left.

Mubarak was one stubborn SOB.

by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:14:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am so happy for the Egyptians.

How proud they must be of their revolution.  They were so inspiring - peaceful, civic-minded, determined.

They have given the world a good example to fight the stereotype of the Islamic terrorist that so many right wingers in the West use to impose fascism on their own citizens.

I wish Egypt all the best in their new lives!

and I hope they can forgive the USA for what they have been subjected to.

by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:16:34 AM EST
hear hear steve! i have tears in my eyes as i see the future, much due to the internet, of people power, and the death knell of dictatorships ringing chimes of freedom.

4000 years of pharaonic rule... pow!

glad to see you back, btw.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:42:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks.

I am also impressed by the Egyptian military.  They were adamant from the first that they would not fire on their own people.  (I can't say the same for the military from my own country)

Perhaps they weren't the most successful militarily but they showed the world that they are truly a great army.

I hope they continue with this attitude and allow the people's will to be manifest in the way Egypt will be governed in the future.  

by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:47:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Having lived for many years - including part of my childhood - in Arab countries, and coming from a family who actively supported the Arab left, I feel very close to the Egyptians today. What is happening in the Arab world is something I have been waiting for for decades.  

During the last weeks, I have been glued to the live streams and blogs, often with tears in my eyes. I hope my Algerian friends will be the next ones to get rid of a corrupt, authoritarian regime. I know they are working a it...

"People only accept change when they are faced with necessity, and only recognize necessity when a crisis is upon them." - Jean Monnet

by Melanchthon on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:31:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
3:48pm The prime minister of Denmark, Lars Rasmussen, has become the first European Union leader to call for Mubarak's resignation... saying he is, quote, "history".

That's really sticking his neck out! Visionary! More than two hours ahead of his time!

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:20:32 AM EST
at least he had the nerve to do it, unlike many.

you know, if the Egyptians were as cynical and pessimistic as you all are, they would never have bothered to walk out their front door let alone put their lives on the line.

by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:22:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was talking about the shameful  timidity of European leaders on this issue.

Not to speak of their shameless dipping of snouts in the trough (the French Prime Minister recently had an Egyptian holiday at the expense of the Mubarak regime)

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:26:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
yes, we in the West should be ashamed of having such leaders.
by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:28:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
we're not all like that, steve, don't pay too much attention to the occasional ghoul-ash!

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:44:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Goulash?


Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:50:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
braindead pun on the (thankfully relatively rare), tasteless forays into ghoulishness in ET comments.

ghoulish as in pretending to want violent outcomes, because you believe they're inevitable and you want to 'get them over with', no doubt, but tending towards the bloodthirsty in tone, imo.

egypt is busy proving that while we need the courage to face the worst, if there are enough of us, violence can stay (mostly) at bay, and overthrow of evil and despotism can occur.

some seem to bay for it, and i find that puerile and irresponsible, bad use of thought waves, jarringly inappropriate here at ET.

 it's a free forum... but perhaps there is a hidden agenda to lower the vibe here and discredit the collective.

nuff said...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:37:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I got it, just wanted to get that plate of goulash in there. :)

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:51:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I ate it. Thanks.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 03:26:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
me too, yum

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 05:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For Comcast customers

Who cannot get Al Jazeera. I got it this morning via Shoutcast on my Roku box.

Just in time to see Suleiman make the announcement.  I haven't seen this much enthusiasm since Super Bowl 19.

Poor quality picture, but the message was really clear.

by greatferm (greatferm-at-email.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:39:48 AM EST
The BBC video of the crowd is even more fun when you layer vuvuzelas over it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:44:39 AM EST
Everything gets better with vuvuzela.
by Nomad on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:28:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Suleiman: The CIA's man in Cairo - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

Suleiman has long been favoured by the US government for his ardent anti-Islamism, his willingness to talk and act tough on Iran - and he has long been the CIA's main man in Cairo.

Mubarak knew that Suleiman would command an instant lobby of supporters at Langley and among 'Iran nexters' in Washington - not to mention among other authoritarian mukhabarat-dependent regimes in the region. Suleiman is a favourite of Israel too; he held the Israel dossier and directed Egypt's efforts to crush Hamas by demolishing the tunnels that have functioned as a smuggling conduit for both weapons and foodstuffs into Gaza.

According to a WikiLeak(ed) US diplomatic cable, titled 'Presidential Succession in Egypt', dated May 14, 2007:

"Egyptian intelligence chief and Mubarak consigliere, in past years Soliman was often cited as likely to be named to the long-vacant vice-presidential post. In the past two years, Soliman has stepped out of the shadows, and allowed himself to be photographed, and his meetings with foreign leaders reported. Many of our contacts believe that Soliman, because of his military background, would at least have to figure in any succession scenario."

From 1993 until Saturday, Suleiman was chief of Egypt's General Intelligence Service. He remained largely in the shadows until 2001, when he started taking over powerful dossiers in the foreign ministry; he has since become a public figure, as the WikiLeak document attests. In 2009, he was touted by the London Telegraph and Foreign Policy as the most powerful spook in the region, topping even the head of Mossad.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:50:53 AM EST
The CIA's man in Cairo is Suleiman, but they had to learn what was going on from the news channels?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:56:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Suleiman was probably working on Mubarak all last night and this morning to make it happen...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:57:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or maybe he's not the CIA's man in Cairo.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Quite possible, since that's an opinion piece from Al Jazeera. It's equally possible the CIA has no one in Cairo. Or a couple of guys who are learning Arabic for next year.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:18:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I just read (unconfirmed - on twitter) that Suleiman is out of the picture too. The Chief Justice of the Egyptian Supreme Court will be interim President. Again I haven't managed to cross check this.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:11:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I remember reading somewhere that according to the Egyptian constitution it is not the VP that succeeds the President.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:54:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There hasn't even been a VP for the better part of the past 30 years...

Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:03:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Checked it:

Egypt's Government Services Portal - Egypt Constitution - Chapter Five

Art.84:   In case of the vacancy of the Presidential office or the permanent disability of the President of the Republic, the Speaker of the People's Assembly shall temporarily assume the Presidency. In case the People's Assembly is dissolved at such a time the President of the Supreme Constitutional Court shall take over the Presidency on condition that neither one shall nominate himself for the Presidency. The People's Assembly shall then proclaim the vacancy of the office of President . The President of the Republic shall be chosen within a maximum period of sixty days form the date of the vacancy of the Presidential office.

So if the Assembly is dissolved it is indeed the President of the Supreme Constitutional Court that takes it temporarily and he can not run in the election that shall be held within 60 days.

Upon further reading:

Egypt's Government Services Portal - Egypt Constitution - Chapter Five

Art.76:   The People's Assembly shall nominate the President of the Republic . The nomination shall be referred to the people for a plebiscite. The nomination for the President of the Republic shall be made in the People' Assembly upon the proposal of at least one third of its members. The candidate who obtains two thirds of the votes of the members of the People's Assembly shall be referred to the people for a plebiscite . If he does not obtain the said majority the nomination process shall be repeated two days after the first vote. The candidate obtaining an absolute majority of the votes of the Assembly members shall be referred to the citizens for a plebiscite. The candidate shall be considered President of the Republic when he obtains an absolute majority of votes cast in the plebiscite. If the candidate does not obtain this majority, the Assembly shall propose the nomination of another candidate and the same procedure shall follow concerning his candidature and election.

Wonder how this works when the Assmebly is dissolved?

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Considering that the members of the existing People's Assembly were selected under long standing "state of emergency" rules which were designed to insure only Mubarak supporters were likely to vote, it is a blessing, (multi-lingual pun intended), if the Assembly is dissolved. I read that the reason Mubarak turned power over to a military council was to avoid the necessity of having an election in 60 days and to allow for preparations for a fairer, broader based election. That may or may not be the case, but six months seems a much more reasonable time frame to organize new parties and an election. I imagine most Egyptians view their constitution as a work very much in process just now.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 05:39:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC News - Egypt unrest
1652: Al-Arabiya reports that the Higher Military Council will sack the cabinet, suspend both houses of parliament and rule with the head of the Supreme Constitutional Court, the country's highest judicial body. A statement is expected later on Friday.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:15:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wonder what I would be doing about now if I were an Egyptian living in Egypt?  screaming?  dancing? singing?
by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:52:28 AM EST
It's Friday - thanking Allah in your 5th prayer of the day.

Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:10:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
no, the announcement was made after the last prayer of the day.
by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:15:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Okay.

But then they can pray 6 times today!

Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:20:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think there will be a lot of cooking being done in the next few days.
by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:33:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not Suleiman, CIAman, who's in charge. It's the army. From the horse's mouth: (Suleiman, quoted on the Guardian)

In these difficult circumstances that the country is passing through, President Hosni Mubarak has decided to leave the position of the presidency. He has commissioned the armed forces council to direct the issues of the state.


It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 11:54:08 AM EST
Mubarak steps down, signs with Vikings


Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:01:07 PM EST
He's certainly got the money to build us a new stadium. I hope that was in the contract.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:21:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]


"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:02:44 PM EST
European Tribune - Egypt: What Now?

Omar Suleiman says:

President Hosni Mubarak has waived the office of president

Now they need to get rid of Suleiman?

Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:08:28 PM EST
I think he's already out.  Didn't Mubarak hand everything over to the military?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:10:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Omar Suleiman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Although he was a military man who by law is not a member of Mubarak's National Democratic Party, he preferred suits to military uniforms and is seen as a major link between Egyptian political and military elites.


Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:23:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Army and presidency at odds - says former intelligence official - Politics - Egypt - Ahram Online
Maj. Gen. Safwat El-Zayat, a former senior official of Egypt's General Intelligence and member of the Egyptian Council of Foreign Affairs, asserted, in an interview with Ahram Online, that the address delivered by President Mubarak last night was formulated against the wishes of the armed forces, and away from their oversight. He claimed that Vice Preisdent Omar Suleiman's address, which came on the heels of Mubarak's address, was equally in defiance of the armed forces and away from its oversight.


Attributing this information to his own sources within the Egyptian military, Maj. Gen. El-Zayat said there was now a deep cleavage between the armed forces, represented in its Supreme Council, and the Presidential authority, represented in both President Mubarak and his Vice President, Omar Suleiman.



"People only accept change when they are faced with necessity, and only recognize necessity when a crisis is upon them." - Jean Monnet
by Melanchthon on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:54:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Next Step for Egypt's Opposition  By MOHAMED ELBARADEI   NYT

The United States and its allies have spent the better part of the last decade, at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars and countless lives, fighting wars to establish democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now that the youth of Cairo, armed with nothing but Facebook and the power of their convictions, have drawn millions into the street to demand a true Egyptian democracy, it would be absurd to continue to tacitly endorse the rule of a regime that has lost its own people's trust.

Egypt will not wait forever on this caricature of a leader we witnessed on television yesterday evening, deaf to the voice of the people, hanging on obsessively to power that is no longer his to keep.

What needs to happen instead is a peaceful and orderly transition of power, to channel the revolutionary fervor into concrete steps for a new Egypt based on freedom and social justice. The new leaders will have to guarantee the rights of all Egyptians. They will need to dissolve the current Parliament, no longer remotely representative of the people. They will also need to abolish the Constitution, which has become an instrument of repression, and replace it with a provisional Constitution, a three-person presidential council and a transitional government of national unity.

The presidential council should include a representative of the military, embodying the sharing of power needed to ensure continuity and stability during this critical transition. The job of the presidential council and the interim government during this period should be to set in motion the process that will turn Egypt into a free and democratic society. This includes drafting a democratic Constitution to be put to a referendum, and preparing for free and fair presidential and parliamentary elections within one year.

We are at the dawn of a new Egypt. A free and democratic society, at peace with itself and with its neighbors, will be a bulwark of stability in the Middle East and a worthy partner in the international community. The rebirth of Egypt represents the hope of a new era in which Arab society, Muslim culture and the Middle East are no longer viewed through the lens of war and radicalism, but as contributors to the forward march of humanity, modernized by advanced science and technology, enriched by our diversity of art and culture and united by shared universal values.


Obviously written before Mubarak's resignation, but in the confidence that he would resign soon. Cautious optimism is in order at this moment. The time between now and the elections is crucial for the nature of the new Egyptian state and society. Now is the time to put in place safeguards for the well being of all Egyptians and protections for the poor from the depredations of "The Market". The West has shown just how hollow political democracy can be without social justice.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:12:32 PM EST
The Next Step for Egypt's Opposition

Forgot the link.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:14:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is this the beginning of an Islamic Renaissance?
by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:20:55 PM EST
The army's communiqué #2 said they would lift the 30-year old state of emergency after the protests end.

So it is still possible for the protesters to go home and the military to keep the boot on their face, to paraphrase 1984.

The protesters were demanding a civilian transition government. Suleiman was another military  man.

Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, but it might very well be the beginning of an Arab Renaissance.

"People only accept change when they are faced with necessity, and only recognize necessity when a crisis is upon them." - Jean Monnet
by Melanchthon on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:43:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am not very religious but I do believe that the Egyptians have shown the best qualities of Islam.  For example, the soldiers said that they didn't fire on civilians because killing was unislamic when one's life wasn't threatened.

the cleanliness demonstrated by the people in Liberation Square is also a very Islamic virtue - ablutions before prayers, etc

so I maintain that it would be an Islamic Renaissance.

by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:58:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the distinction i hear being made is between islam-ist and islam-ic, former more general-sociological, latter predominantly religious.

did i get this the right way around?

i think it may be a worldwide renaissance, of youth and interconnectedness.

the arabs are the touchpaper now. i wish that tunisian who set fire to himself could see the ripple effect of his sacrifice...

what's funny is watching ashton and obama trying to balance their real allegiances with their ever so PC support of the egyptian people.

likud heads must be exploding. obama has delayed his speech twice now, i guess his speechwriters are consulting george orwell to come up with the right newspeak.

we have always supported and protected the oppressed arab world from evil enemies, er...

we will fully accept whatever outcome their elections will bring, and not try to tweak them from abroad or within.

even winning the world cup doesn't bring this many people to manic frenzy, lol.

these folks weren't getting their bread, never mind the circuses...

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:19:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama busy okaying special deliveries of diapers to Israel because they are shitting themselves right now.

I hope it does spread and not only to the Islamic world, although many there are really in need of a wind of change.

Someone on CNN made a good point saying that in both Tunisia and Egypt, the armies decided not to fire on the crowd which would not be the case in Libya, Saudi Arabia and other countries.

by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:24:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just a week ago talking heads talked about a "chinese solution" in Egypt. Myself, I do not think it can be known either way until it happens.

A factor is that if the soldiers on the ground believe the demonstrators will win, they have all the reason to join them. And with Egypt falling, more probably believes that their strong-man will fall.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:32:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well, a lot of it depends on whether if they have general conscription or not, I would think.

and I have been saying for some time now that India and China are in line for some major unrest due to the inequality of incomes and other pressures on the poor -  bad environmental conditions, poor representation, problems with land distribution and use.

by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
stevesim:
in both Tunisia and Egypt, the armies decided not to fire on the crowd which would not be the case in Libya, Saudi Arabia and other countries.

wouldn't they have said the same 2 months ago about tunisia and egypt?

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:58:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure as I am not really familiar with either of them.
by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 03:00:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps not as clearly. I wouldn't like to go down into the street in that freak Ghaddafi's country, for example, and SA has such an archaic, traditionalist side, that both Tunisia and Egypt contrast with in terms of having developed some notions of independence, freedom, and democracy even though their republics were then captured by profiteers and dictators. It boils down to what ideals people share, soldiers included. I'm not sure what cultural influences Libyan and Saudi soldiers have been exposed to over two-three decades. Would Internet make the difference?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 04:03:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
afew:
Would Internet make the difference?

don't you think mubarak is regretting allowing it now?

they allow it to start to increase revenues, (hook) then, guess what? (barb), people see out of their fishbowl!

...and realise they're not just afew ;)

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 05:55:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I watched an English language version of a recruiting film for the Saudi Army while installing video projectors in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 1984. At that time recruitment was directed to the sons of the poor, bedu, farmers, etc. The title was "To Be A Man!" At that time one would still see old sheiks with somewhat threadbare dress "capes" over what had been the standard dress before the then ubiquitous "thobe". There has been huge change in SA in the quarter century since then, but many of the officers and non-coms in the SA military would have had their careers start back then.

With that sort of start in life the step up represented by the military is likely to make such personnel both loyal and conservative. If they were or could be convinced that a crowd of protesters was under the influence of or composed by outside influences they would most likely shoot. If not, I would not want to venture a guess.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 05:57:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes indeed.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:00:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...it might very well be the beginning of an Arab Renaissance.

May it be so.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 06:00:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC News - Egypt unrest
1719: Swiss foreign ministry says government freezing potential Mubarak assets in Switzerland, Reuters reports.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:21:14 PM EST
They should repeal the damn bank secrecy laws, that's what they should be doing.

Which, by the way, is not an old Swiss tradition on a par with William Tell, but less than 100 years old and explicitly about tax evasion.

Bank secrecy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bank secrecy was codified by the 1934 Swiss Banking Act following a public scandal in France, when MP Fabien Alberty denounced tax evasion by eminent French personalities, including politicians, judges, industrialists, church dignitaries and directors of newspapers, who were hiding their money in Switzerland. He called these men of "a particularly ticklish patriotism", who "probably are unaware that the money they deposit abroad is lent by Switzerland to Germany". The Peugeot brothers and François Coty, of the famous perfume family, were on his list. Since then, Swiss banks have acquired worldwide celebrity due to their numbered bank accounts, which critics such as ATTAC NGO alleged only help legalized tax evasion, money laundering and more generally the underground economy.


Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:25:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Having worked for Swiss banks for many years, I can tell you that it is the only thing driving the Swiss economy.

I had this opinion confirmed recently by listening to an interview with a Swiss politician - I forget his name, but possibly on the Federal Council.  I am terrible with names.

He said that the EU was demanding the lifting of the Swiss secrecy laws but it couldn't be done quickly, otherwise the Swiss economy would collapse.  So, closer ties with the EU and repelling the Swiss laws would progress simultaneously in order to buffer the shock.

by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:01:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Germany has attacked tax evasion in Liechtenstein, Luxembourg and Switzerland. If they keep at it it can't last.

Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:46:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
there's all the off-shore entities, some not so far like Guernsey and Gibraltar
by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:02:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, all those British tax havens... See how many tax havens you can count in this video:



Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:07:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks.  I never understood some of the statuses of some of these places.

although I didn't see Diego Garcia in any of those lists.

by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:37:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That would be the British Indian Ocean Territory.

Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 03:06:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wales is a tax haven too now? Shee-it.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 03:21:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Once a dictator is dethroned, suddenly everybody discovers that he was one in the first place.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:00:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aside:  Can anyone remember in what thread Jérôme several weeks ago, perhaps after the very first small demo, said, "the next few weeks in Egypt will be very interesting"? I tried search but using Egypt brings up every thread.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin
by Crazy Horse on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:25:38 PM EST
Adding: i remember thinking, what a simple statement which contains so much portent.

And: the quality of Al Jazeera coverage satisfies deeply. I've heard them ask an Egyptian reporter to take his journalist hat off, and describe his emotions. And asking the EU foreign secretary if the EU would support investigation into Mubarak's human rights violations and corruption (at which point the CIA cut the signal so i didn't hear her response.)

(

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin

by Crazy Horse on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:53:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This, perhaps?

Jerome a Paris:

Egypt (none / 1) is going to be an interesting place in the coming days...

Wind power

Search (Google) and some luck with the right search terms.

We all bleed the same color.

by budr on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:26:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Danke, never thought to limit goog to ET. was using the ET search.


"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin
by Crazy Horse on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:35:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Google with "site:eurotrib.com" tends to give better results than the server's search facility.

Keynesianism is intellectually hard, as evidenced by the inability of many trained economists to get it - Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:44:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's a site Google search up there in the menu. Amazing how few people have ever noticed.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 03:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Al Jazeera:



She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:27:42 PM EST
Goosebumps.

Again. Have had a lot of them this day.

by Nomad on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:54:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Without diminishing this photo, i saw the original before it was p-shopped, which had even more power because it was real. i wanted to post it then, but couldn't. to me the orig has more power.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin
by Crazy Horse on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 05:48:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Be cool to see it.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 06:03:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
could be wrong, but thoiught i saw it on the AJ live blog (perhaps not) but going back it's now the same. i was clicking so often i can't remember, though my "history" might.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin
by Crazy Horse on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 06:15:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Agree with your perception. I saw it as it came up on the AJ blog, thought, "that will go round the world", but didn't have time to post it here (I avoid hotlinking pics, anyway, if I had, the pic would have changed). It has since, it looks to me, been hagio-shooped.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Feb 12th, 2011 at 02:32:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
32 years ago - the Iranian revolution.

21 years ago - Nelson Mandela released from prison in South Africa.

Autocratic leaders should fear 11 February.

by Nomad on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 12:59:57 PM EST
For Twank: On this day in 1766, the Stamp Act was declared unconstitutional in Virginia.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin
by Crazy Horse on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:10:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reporter on Al Jazeera said this is the first time in Egyptian history a ruler has been held accountable to the people.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:17:46 PM EST
One of the planners of the revolt just now revealed he was the latest incarnation of Tutankhamen. "After cleaning toilets around the world, in so many different cultures, for so many innumerable lifetimes, i was ecstatic to get a job at Google," said the organizer. "I'd cleaned my karma, and was ready to face new responsibilities from a very different direction. I'd really like to thank the Google founders, who had spent decades pulling big stones up those pyramid things for me, in sandals no less, for giving me the opportunity to turn things around, and show the world i've learned my lesson."

"I still would like to go to Berlin to see Nefertiti, but we have more important things to do now, including opening the border to Gaza," said the former ruler as he surveyed the scene in Cairo. "Nice to be back home again, though."

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin

by Crazy Horse on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:01:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Didn't someone here say there was no humor in these protests? Granted in context "bread guy" and most of the rest are probably not making at attempt at humor...



you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 01:46:36 PM EST
yup, i find western protests too silly to be taken seriously, media posturing mostly.

it trivialises what the protest is about, makes a cartoon of it.

...which helps in my mind to explain their relative uselessness, though they're better than pure passivity.

it really undermined the 60's movements, clownishness just doesn't cut it when lives are on the line, though it does bring a smile...

protests are about convincing the least likely to protest to join in, they don't have to be bland, but too much party vibe looks immature and turns many off.

more zen in numbers than attention-getting show-offery.

theatricality is not the problem per se, it's that it makes it too easy for the media to deliberately miss the point and turn it into who made the biggest paper mache float instead.

the real thing doesn't need adornment, save the party for when you've won.

course, we haven't been ruled by dictatorships for 30 years, but what with the banks and money games, the outcome is identical.

same old... it's so nice to hear al jazeera exulting at something, usually tuning in to them has been such a depressing litany of injustices. they're on fire tonight.

god bless the web, between youtube, FB, wikileaks, and al J, the truth is refusing to be paved over by brutality any more.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 02:37:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i must add the french are an inspiring counter-example to the above!

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 05:58:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He sounds almost excited.

The Angry Arab News Service/وكالة أنباء العربي الغاضب

Don't get me wrong: US and Saudi Arabia will now rush with bags of gold and cash to influence all members of the military command council.  The beauty of that is that there is no one person: it is a collective leadership (even if this rules for a transitional period) and the momentum of the Egyptian people will restrict their powers, notwithstanding wishes to the contrary by US/Israel/Saudi Arabia.  One person in the council will emerge; we don't know who: and there will be leaks and back stabbing and plots and conspiracies.  There will be chaos in Egypt: which is good.  People will come from nowhere: don't memorize the news names of this developing news story: you will hear of new names soon.  This is a big strategic development: if Tunisia affected Egypt: Egypt is destined to affect the entire region (unless you believe that the announcement of cash bonuses from the Bahraini King this morning was a pure act of charity.  Israel is in deep trouble, as is the US; Egypt was an intelligence and sabotage center.  The entire country and its dyamics are now unleashed on the word.  There will be new ideas and new current and trends.  Certainly, the freer the Arabs are, the more trouble for the US/Israel/Saudi Arabia.
by Nomad on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 03:34:27 PM EST
damn!  you beat me to it!

angry arab  --->  not so angry anymore

The shock for Israel and US is double: not only is Mubarak gone, but so is Sulayman.  The ouster of Sulayman ran against their scheme.  I believe that Mubarak arranged for that (although the people insisted on it) to get back at the US.  Leaving them to scramble.  The good thing is that Minister of Defense Tantawi has the leadership skills of Joe (six pack) Biden.  Stay tuned.

by stevesim on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 03:57:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The AA:
don't memorize the news names of this developing news story: you will hear of new names soon

Good advice, imo.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 04:07:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
11-2-11 Blog   Al Jezeera

The Egyptian people know they ousted Mubarak in spite of Washington, Brussels, or Tel Aviv.  The entire Arab world knew from the beginning that all those parties, especially the US, were singularly obsessed with one pathetic question throughout: whether the next Egyptian leadership would continue to support the peace agreement with Israel.

The American blinders were far narrower than the masses at Tahrir Square could have possibly appreciated.  As they stood outside day and night there was no time for them to watch episodically interested American networks. Spotty internet service probably denied them the ability to peruse the latest WikiLeaks revelations. If they had, they would have noted, perhaps to no surprise, that their unelected vice-president Omar Suleiman was so eager to do the US-Israeli bidding that in December 2007 he advocated seeing the people of Gaza (fellow Muslims no less) "go hungry but not starve" in response to the election of Hamas. There are much worse anecdotes in our recently released Palestine Papers.  How about that freedom agenda, America?

That logic taken further, it means the same Suleiman would do far worse to suppress the Muslim Brotherhood within Egypt, which is especially what the American Right and the eager-to-prove-their-security-credentials Left would like.  "The Muslim Brotherhood is a mortal enemy of our civilization," says Newt Gingrich, the revered Republican party strategist.  Even if they were, and they most clearly are not, Gingrich and any other US political parties will have to come to terms with a reality they have so far failed to grasp. The Arab and Muslim world are making changes with their feet. They draw their strength and power from the numbers they bring and the righteousness of their causes. They are unafraid and unshackled to take on the status quo.  

These are the same people who will determine their destiny, arbitrarily chosen for them by Westerners with last names like Sykes and Picot and by DC-based lobbies and think tanks that once mattered in the scheme of things but don't so much any more.

This is not a time in history to fear, though many would like us to. The devil we have known has not been good to the world either.



"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Feb 11th, 2011 at 06:21:05 PM EST
From Al Jazeera:

3:11pm Egypt's Supreme Council of the Armed Forces has just issued its fourth communiqué broadcast live on state television.

In the announcement, the country's new military rulers promised to hand power to an elected, civilian government. They also pledged that Egypt would remain committed to all international treaties - in an apparent nod to its 1979 peace treaty with Israel.

A hopeful sign.  

If they abide by the election results then this will be a true Revolution and not a mere 'changing of the guard.'


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Feb 12th, 2011 at 01:45:18 PM EST


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