Friday Open Thread

by afew
Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 12:15:33 PM EST

The weekend beckons...


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We should all be working, of course.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 12:16:00 PM EST
Unless we're cruise ship captains.

Then we should all be working off course.

...

I'm sorry. I'll be good now.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 12:51:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Twitter / @DavidHenderson: Italian Cruise ship captai ...
Italian Cruise ship captain Francesco Schettino of the Costra Concordia began his new job as a bus driver yesterday. pic.twitter.com/q8tCuzEV


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 01:03:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Where in this picture is the cruise ship company management publishing the premature accusations of not being able to stay on the road???
by asdf on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 01:18:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As per the USA, the most consistent opposition comes from comedians. Here on Question Time Mark Steel explains that attempting to explain the lack of money in the economy as being due to benefit cheats is extremely ridiculous.

It starts at 2:40 but the best bit comes from 4:20.



keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 01:02:49 PM EST
I'm sure it's been on here before but..

A banker, a Daily Mail reader and a benefits claimant are gathered around a table and someone deliver a plate of 10 biscuits. The banker takes 9 of them and then says to the Daily Mail reader "watch out, I think that scrounger's trying to take your biscuit"

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 01:16:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Live Station media pack, for your edification.

Live streaming news from the top channels.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 03:16:01 PM EST
Just been watching C-Span - Obama giving a speech at Ann Arbor on college financial aid. He ain't lost the speech talent - and the content wasn't too bad either. I don't doubt that he will be re-elected, but nothing much will change unless the House changes hands.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 03:50:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
every day I realize more and more how the rich really have been sticking it to the poor in the USA

I doubt anything will change for some time, although I have heard that the planetary alignments are the same as they were for the American and French revolutions.

by stevesim on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 04:21:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, let's not mention planetary alignments, but I spent the day on researching MDM or Master Data Management - a system "to ensure the uniformity, accuracy, stewardship, semantic consistency and accountability of the enterprise's official, shared master data assets."

The bit that perked my interest was that the IT department (cue joke from ceebs) should be the Custodian of such a system. And then I thought about Chris Cook's LLP Custodians, and then I realised the seeds of corporate destruction had been sown.

When organizations can become noospheric, traditional management and investment become irrelevant, and the rental on privileged information no longer payable. But I dream on...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 04:48:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"irrelevant" also requires a lack of power, sadly.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:46:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most of my Left Wing friends own their own businesses and most of my Right Wing friends work for somebody else.  My 'off the top o'me head' conclusion is Left Wingers know they're getting screwed if they are not Self-Reliant while the vice is versa for RW'ers.

Not the CW, of course.

On topic #2:

MDM or Master Data Management - a system "to ensure the uniformity, accuracy, stewardship, semantic consistency and accountability of the enterprise's official, shared master data assets."

Portrait of a man Not Going There.

by ATinNM on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:56:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most of my Left Wing friends own their own businesses and most of my Right Wing friends work for somebody else.  My 'off the top o'me head' conclusion is Left Wingers know they're getting screwed if they are not Self-Reliant while the vice is versa for RW'ers.

My "off the top o'me head" would be that your left-wing friends find hierarchies stifling and think outside the box, so they ended up starting their own businesses not to be self-reliant or to make a better living, but to retain their sanity and self-respect. Your right-wing friends find it easier to conform and to operate within a hierarchy and don't question received wisdom, so why should they feel uncomfortable forking for someone else?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True.

Also they (and I) know shoveling cash to #@$^!'s who did @#%^@'ing all to earn it is dumb.

by ATinNM on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:07:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In other words, you and your left wind friends are maladapted, chronic malcontents or vocational misfits.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:09:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In other words, you and your left wind friends are maladapted, chronic malcontents or and vocational misfits.

FIFY

by ATinNM on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:19:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
left wind

Heh.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:34:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The East Wind is Red, comrade:

by ATinNM on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:47:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Red army brass band?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 08:06:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No idea who did it.  Apparently it was a required sing-song during the Cultural Revolution and until Mao croaked.  

Think it's a major hoot.  

by ATinNM on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 09:16:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well I may be biassed having worked in IT departments,  but who else are you going to want to have custody? They are going to have to have full access anyway, for all the backups etc. plus  they are more likely to have a grip on data protection and be ethical about privacy.  would you honestly trust a manager with one eye on the balance sheet to be custodian of such mission critical software startegy and planning? (it's IT, it's low totem pole stuff so if you have a general manager they are going to be young and fresh out of business school. apart from anything else, senior management is going to think that only young people understand computers, Young, fresh out of buisness school with buisness degrees. I've yet to meet one who it's possible to trust them with anything more mission critical than making the coffee)

Other people may think the other way, seeing IT as an obstacle rather than an enabler of performance, depends of course on the IT department, and what you want to do.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 09:09:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...who else are you going to want to have custody?

That's true.  Somebody has to play Computer-Police and better if the IT Dept (who is going to get stuck dealing with the mess) then, say, the Marketing Dept.  

I worked at a company where every department got to chose what software they would use, what a disaster that was!

by ATinNM on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 09:21:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
oh god, I'd tried to forget working at one of those. trying to get apples fake windows printing protocols to play with Industrial HP printers hanging from a VMS fake windows NT 3.5 network over hubs that were of a different manufacturer than the switched rest of the network. (somehow that department happened to not only have grabbed the budget for its own equipment, but had also grabbed the budget for networking its own building <shudders> needless to say my dreams at the time featured now recently dead and sainted Apple luminaries and a selection of sporting Lumber that would have been the envy of many sporting teams that Mr Horse of this parish happily supports.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 10:08:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL

Kept you off the streets and in the pub after work and on weekends, tho.

by ATinNM on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 10:37:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
true

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 10:49:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And even then only maybe.
by ATinNM on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:44:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
this link is for people who think they can plan a city's urban transport system

http://www.citiesinmotion.com/

it's an interesting game

by stevesim on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 04:19:18 PM EST
I play the live version in Helsinki quite often in first-person traveller mode. My tactic is to radically increase all parking space fees.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 04:54:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In the same vein as the need to reduce the population, here's a plan for saving the USA's social security program:



'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant.

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 04:33:37 PM EST
There are, naturally, uncounted environmental costs, for example with the increase in the aged performing motocross canyon jumps in wilderness areas. Rivers are ewndangered by the various and sundry skin creams present on aged bodies, if the bungee chords stretch too far.

And while it may be law, i don't think smoking dynamite sticks will "catch on," unless there are additives to improve the taste. All in all, a positive step, we can hope, for a change.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's another population control measure at work:



'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant.

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Sat Jan 28th, 2012 at 03:07:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The coffee bar - precursor of Swinging London.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:10:38 PM EST
espresso bongo! skiffle!

there were the oddly named 'milk bars' as well, 'on the continent'.

~Government budget deficits are not nearly as dangerous as the deficits we have created in vital and complex natural systems.~ Naomi Klein.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:17:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
'Rock Island Line' played a rather important part in my own personal development...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:19:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
donnie lonegan! masticatory adhesions to bedposts!

come on pretty baby let's a-move it and a-groove it!

duane eddy! catarrh man! eso beso!

~Government budget deficits are not nearly as dangerous as the deficits we have created in vital and complex natural systems.~ Naomi Klein.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:36:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The oxygen bars in don't call it Frisco and LaLa didn't seem to catch on.

espresso bongo, lol.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:27:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Spoke too soon. (Wrote?)

oxygen bar at Macworld booth (advertising a company where you rent operating systems from a cloud, plug your phone into a screen, and work from your phone.)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:16:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and here's the $69,000 Alljack sound system for your iphone.

of course, if you're on a trampoline, or bungee jumping, you might want earbuds for athletes.




"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:28:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you need cheering up:

by ATinNM on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:38:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
THAT shouldn't be blocked.
by ATinNM on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:38:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're insane.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:40:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

(been a hard week)
by ATinNM on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:55:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I meant it as a compliment.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:59:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]


"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 07:02:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And I took it as such.

It's also been a hard week so I'm a little punchy.

by ATinNM on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 09:18:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
random musings dept...

the italian language has no word for accountability, the closest is 'contabilita' which has no personal dimension, just accountancy really.

the other one...'notorieta' is fame, (for whatever reason), not notoriety, with its perjorative meaning.

fascinating what lexical and conceptual semantic equivocations live deep in the cracks between languages.

~Government budget deficits are not nearly as dangerous as the deficits we have created in vital and complex natural systems.~ Naomi Klein.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:31:27 PM EST
and does Italian have a word for privacy?  (Japanese supposedly doesn't)
by stevesim on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:36:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
good one! no it doesn't... they borrow the english word, just like 'accountability'.

~Government budget deficits are not nearly as dangerous as the deficits we have created in vital and complex natural systems.~ Naomi Klein.
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:39:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There may be no word for accountability but to be accountable for/to is rendere conto.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:07:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
resoconto is summation, metaphorised to mean realisation (cognitive, not plan execution).

i have never heard your use of the phrase, perhaps it is currently only used in extremely formal italian. it rings somewhat archaic.

'ti rendi conto?' = 'do you grok that?'

your use may also be religious, as in final reckoning, in fact our word reckon seems rooted in the italian, via reconnaissance.

recognition is an interesting offshoot, when mere cognition insuffices, do it again!

~Government budget deficits are not nearly as dangerous as the deficits we have created in vital and complex natural systems.~ Naomi Klein.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 08:22:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All the examples from Italian in this discussion apply also to French, pretty much.

Notoriété in French, adj notoire, means well-known - but this follows from the Latin notus "known". The English word notorious does have this meaning too, but has developed a strong pejorative streak. I think notorio in Spanish can have both senses too.

Comptabilité means "accountancy" in French. There is no single word for accountability. But the adj comptable is used to mean "accountable".

Tu te rends compte? Common FR expression meaning "Do you realize?". So rendre compte in everyday French means "to realize". But, in more formal usage, it does mean to account for (one's actions).

I'm not sure these differences are all that deep or significant, though.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jan 28th, 2012 at 04:15:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A few weeks ago we had an argument between Helen and afew on whether Lourdes is a spa or a pilgrimage place. While I thought I agreed with afew, an article in the latest Canard suggests that, perhaps unintentionally, Helen has a point. The local bishop complains about the large number of swimming pools, pointing out that the Virgin never asked to bathe.
Pour fêter dignement le 150e anniversaire de la "reconnaisance par l'Eglise des apparitionsde Lourdes", l'évêque de Tarbes a annoncé la semaine derniere d'importants travaux sur le site, qui accueille 6 millions de pêlerins par an. "A Lourdes, les piscines changent de place", écrit le journal, qui note que ces bassins sont fréquentés chaque année par 400 000 personnes. Un vrai bouillon de culture. Il fallait que ça cesse, d'autant que, comme l'a rappelé l'évêque, "jamais la Vierge n'a demandé de se baigner".

Ni d'ajouter du chlore dans l'eau bénite?

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:59:56 PM EST
by ATinNM on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:14:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
love that song.  Also love that suicide is an option. My anxiety about life and the world and the human condition would be a lot higher if it weren't for the final option.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant.
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Sat Jan 28th, 2012 at 03:16:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If they add chlorine to the water, the phages will die! Quick, someone warn them!
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jan 28th, 2012 at 04:15:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Assurance of Compliance in the 2nd GRC Programme [PDF]
I. Background
According to information from the Troika, Greece has most likely missed key programme objectives again in 2011. In particular, the budget deficit has not decreased compared to the previous year. Therefore Greece will have to significantly improve programme compliance in the future to honour its commitments to lenders. Otherwise the Eurozone will not be able to approve guarantees for GRC II.
II. Proposal for the improvement of compliance
To improve compliance in the 2nd programme, the new MoU will have to contain two innovative institutional elements on which Greece will have to commit itself. They will become further prior actions for the second programme. Only if and when they are implemented, the new programme can commence:
  1. Absolute priority to debt service ...
  2. Transfer of national budgetary sovereignty ...
Spain already put "absolute priority to debt service" in its constitution last September...

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:32:48 PM EST
FT Alphaville: LTRO smackdown
Our question really is not whether the LTROs were a liquidity game-changer but what comes next, especially if banks are mostly using the cash to pay off their own creditors but not for extending to the real economy. (Nor for extending to their governments, much: compared to ECB's €489bn LTRO in December, Italian banks bought €4bn of sovereign debt during the month, JPMorgan's Flows & Liquidity analysts noted on Friday.)

Buried in the ECB's release on December's monetary developments, for example, Societe Generale analysts noted the biggest-ever monthly decline in loans to the non-financial sector:

...

Which is exactly why we thought way back in December that the ECB changing its rules on accepting "credit claims" (typically, bank loans) was a huge move. But it's going to be amazing if the ECB can manage this kind of deleveraging prospect and avoid some kind of additional QE, like its peers in the US and UK in 2009.



tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:37:41 PM EST


Now where's the fun in that! - Megatron
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:41:25 PM EST
Ah, yes.

The days when it was possible to drive from Point A to Point B in LA in under three hours.

by ATinNM on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 09:26:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I always quite liked this cover



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 10:16:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I remember it when it was on the old grey whistle test, however somebody about 14 appears to have chopped together the video for this, rather than the original

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 10:22:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Incredible energy for a non-stage performance.

Now where's the fun in that! - Megatron
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Jan 28th, 2012 at 04:44:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Monumental Paper Architecture - My Modern Metropolis
Though paper isn't ideal to build a sturdy structure to inhabit, it proves to be an excellent medium to produce exquisite representations of urban and exotic architecture. Amsterdam-based paper artist Ingrid Siliakus brings us these magnificent cityscapes cut out of paper in her Paper Architecture series. Built similar to pop-up books, many of the paper sculptures are capable of folding onto themselves or changing proportions, based on how obtuse or acute the angle of its binding is.


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 08:15:41 PM EST
....is first rate (my bold)

The First 5000 Years of Debt

David Brancaccio: When you think of debt, you probably think of a 30-year mortgage or a five-year car loan. But anthropologist David Graeber looks at debt differently. He examines debt through the Millennia. He's with Goldsmiths -- University of London and his new book, "Debt: The First 5,000 Years," goes into the idea of debt, and if we really, really have to pay back what we owe.

Professor Graeber, thanks for joining us.

David Graeber: Thank you.

Brancaccio: Of course, it's morally wrong not to pay your debts back. I mean, your folks didn't teach you that?

Graeber: Well, one of the things that I discovered, when looking at history, is that people always say that. But in practice, it's not really the case -- especially people on the top of the food chain. They know that everything's negotiable. The strict morality of debt tends to be for the little people.

Brancaccio: But it's so deeply ingrained. Here, you may have heard the following lines. The actor is Al Pacino, the screen writer is William Shakespeare.

Al Pacino: The pound of flesh that I demand of him is dearly bought. T'is mine. T'is mine!

Brancaccio: And I will have it. I mean, the person who wants his money back is traditionally seen as a person who needs to get his money back.

Graeber: And he's also the villain, isn't he. That's the fascinating thing. Throughout human history, people have tried to reconcile too completely unreconcilable ideas: Morality is paying your debts, money lenders are evil.

Brancaccio: So we love credit, we just don't often love the image of the person we owe the money to.

Graeber: Precisely.

Brancaccio: But this notion of that you're a bad person if you don't pay your debts back, you're saying is actually up for discussion?

Graeber: Absolutely. I mean, a debt is a promise. It's a certain type of promise, it's a promise that can be quantified. And therefore it's a promise that can be transferred to other people.

Brancaccio: But, a debt is a contract and it's argued quite persuasively that rule of law and enforceable contracts are what allowed us to achieve the standards of living that we have. Yes, contract law is not a law of physics, it is a human construct. But by accepting contract law, a lot of good flowed from it.

Graeber: Certainly, but there's contract law and there's contract law. Throughout human history, debts have been renegotiated. In fact, most of the most successful civilizations in human history always had some way of readjusting debt so you don't end up in a situation where the big people end up effectively enslaving the little people.

In Mesopotamia, for example, they had debt cancellation. It was almost a systematic thing. Every new king who'd come in would say, "All right, clean slate. Start over a gain." The biblical Jubilee was the same thing; every seven years, debts would be canceled.

Brancaccio: Are there good uses of debt?

Graeber: Absolutely. I mean, there's a lot of small-scale communities in Africa for example, where it's just considered right that everybody should owe each other a little. So, there are some places where debt and sociality are really the same thing.

Brancaccio: The term you're using is "sociality."

Graeber: Yeah, the idea that everybody should have links to each other. And debt was a way of making that real.

Brancaccio: You point out that a lot of very familiar English words actually descend from this idea of debt.

Graeber: Yes, "reckoning," "redemption." Even phrases like "a person of no account or worthy." They all go back to credit. Because when you don't have a state enforcing a debt, well then debts take on a whole different color. One's honor, one's decency and one's credit are basically the same thing. So whereas, for us, if you spend money helping the poor, that's probably going to lower your credit rating, because you're more likely to miss a mortgage payment. For most of human history, if you're a decent person or generous, that would actually improve your credit.

Brancaccio: So there's debt as social capital and is also, if you borrow some money to do something worth, like investing in plant and equipment to make medicines to cure tropical diseases. But there's also this other kind of debt -- quite familiar to many Americans and it sounds a lot like this from the 2009 movie "Confessions of a Shopaholic":

Rebecca Bloomwood: Rebecca Bloomwood. Occupation: Journalist. Jacket: Visa. Dress: AMEX. Belt: MasterCard. It's vintage! And I got 1 percent cashback.

Brancaccio: Gee, without debt she doesn't have any self-image at all.

Graeber: Well, in a way, credit has come to substitute for what used to be community.

Brancaccio: So it's no longer a social glue, a kind of social capital. It's something else.

Graeber: The fact that we want to buy a beer for our friends, the fact that we want to have a party for our children, that we want to take care of each other suddenly brings people in a situation where they're in constant fear and looking over their shoulders, because they're in [HOT] for their lives.

Brancaccio: So what's this you have an idea, maybe, another one of these biblical jubilees might be in order of mass debt forgiveness? What do you think?

Graeber: I think it wouldn't be a bad idea, and I've got a lot of criticism for this and it's a provocative idea. But I think we should at least think about it. Because we're using an antiquated idea of what money is. If money is just a credit system, it's a series of promises. Well, promises by definition can be renegotiated.

Brancaccio: Well, why? To get people out of this cycle of having to serve the debt that they owe and to do something, perhaps, more productive?

Graeber: Yes, I think that would free up a lot of energies of people doing things that they don't really want to be doing and work that doesn't even really need to be done.

Brancaccio: Look, if you could engineer a jubilee, and I wouldn't have to pay off the rest of my mortgage and the credit card debt that I still owe, I'll be first in line for that. Fabulous at first, but the thing is -- right? -- no one would lend again. People lend for a lot of reasons, but they especially lend to make an informed bet on the borrower's future. It's a way of turning my honor as a kind of guy who would pay back into ready cash. And that's just going to dry up credit into the future.

Graeber: Well, that's what people always say. But in fact, in the past, that's not been the case. Because what are people going to do with their money? The money really doesn't exist unless you lend it. Banks make up money by making loans. If they don't make loans, there's no bank.

Brancaccio: The front doors of the United States Federal Reserve are down at 20th and Constitution Avenue in D.C. I'll meet you down there. We can see how far we get. We'll have a chat.

Graeber: Yeah.

Brancaccio: Alright, thank you very much.

Graeber: My pleasure.

Brancaccio: David Graeber is an anthropologist at Goldsmiths - University of London. The book, "Debt: The First 5,000 Years."

Graeber's work underpins the creditary nature of currency.


"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Jan 28th, 2012 at 04:52:55 AM EST
I think "hock" goes where [HOT] is.

Interesting interview.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant.

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Sat Jan 28th, 2012 at 06:55:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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