European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

You don't sound very different from Varoufakis.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 12:38:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Perhaps a simple matter of common sense being a meeting point for people who see things as they are.

Nil aon leigheas ar an ngra ach posadh

by redstar on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 01:20:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Die Deutschen an die Front?

A lot opf germanophobe babbling here today.

by IM on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 12:57:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not a Germanophobe. I think one German party (Die Linke, who appear to have pushed SPD in the right direction on this if not all the way) and a lot of fair-minded German people "get it" and see the dead end their current government's policies have pushed Europe and Germany.

But, given behaviour of the German political and Financial elites over the past few years (and, in fact, since the early 1990's), where we have all been paying, first for West German integration of the DDR, then for German commercial and financial interests to the deteriment of those of the rest of Europe save the DM zone (NL, OS and arguably FI), one cannot help but to call a spade a spade and denounce that behaviour.

Nil aon leigheas ar an ngra ach posadh

by redstar on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 01:25:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If it sounds like a duck and walks like a duck.
You have just accused Germany of planing another war. Even the nuts in the left only suspects that in Syria (as art of the "NATO-aggression against syria" etc)

We? Who has financed what? Germany has never been a net receiver since the treaties of Rome. So stop this nationalistic nonsense.

That th SPD and the greens demand a new Marschall plan for Grece etc.. I will just mention for completeness sake.

by IM on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 01:31:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I never said any such thing. I merely pointed out that the only way for the German financial and political elite to get the pound of flesh they appear to want would be to go the whole nine yards, like the US did in Latin America (not just the Dominican Republic) for decades.

Do they have the balls to do so? No. And anyhow, even the badly uninformed German public would never stand for it. But, it is the logical extension of the demands that are being made of Greece...because no Greek citizen in their right mind, under present circumstances, would wilfully agree to what Germany and Europe are asking of Greece, as applied by the Greek government to date, in terms of austerity: gutting public services (no medicine at the hospitals, pensions cut, et c.,), destroying the economy, and raising taxes on all but the wealthiest Greeks in order to fork over drachma to German and French bankers.

We in the rest of Europe financed integration of the DDR by having to raise our interest rates in tandem with the Bundesbank in the early 1990's, and we paid for it directly via higher commercial and consumer credit interest rates, and more importantly, indirectly via a Bundesbank-driven recession and weak recovery which caused mass unemployment (here in France, in excess of 12%) and lower purchasing power , essentially a lost decade of economic vitality. And Berlin was re-unified. Yes, beautiful city, now, the reunified Berlin of course the Eastern part is still the coolest, and we would all most likely be better off if in the 1990s we had been paying for East German integration of the BRD instead of the other way round, but that is a topic for another day I am afraid.

And now, we are also paying, via the same clownshow at the Bundesbank, who have spread their Austrian-school disease to the BCE, which is causing another recession in Europe to prove the same point, that they are economically illiterate fools or that they look out for German financial interests first or some combination of the two (I opt for response C).

As an aside, SPD demands a new Marshall plan for Europe because Die Linke has been denouncing the Berlin clown show for a number of years running and finally the SPD, who got the BOP imbalances started in the first place under Schroeder and his German wage suppression policies (Deutsch "neuer Arbeits" und alle that) figured out they had no choice but to steal ideas for the reviled left. Maybe they'd be a bit more credible if they hadn't played so much a part in creating the problem in the first place, and anyhow, I'll not hold my breath waiting for them to come to power, the Ossi dissident (they are always the worst for their countries and the rest of us, those ex-dissidents whove taken power in the east and central European countries since the unfortunate fall of the wall) seems to have captured the German weltenshauung quite well and with it, its votes...

Nil aon leigheas ar an ngra ach posadh

by redstar on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 02:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If by pointing out you mean invented out of whole cloth. Since the private debtors are pressured to give up a part of the debt right now, your original assumption is wrong anyway.

>Do they have the balls to do so?>
Are you mad? Do you think a attack on another NATO and EU-member would be a good thing? Balls?

>No. And anyhow, even the badly uninformed German public would never stand for it.>
Yes, the gemran public is notorious war-hungry.

>But, it is the logical extension of the demands that are being made of Greece...because no Greek citizen in their right mind, under present circumstances, would wilfully agree to what Germany and Europe are asking of Greece, as applied by the Greek government to date, in terms of austerity: gutting public services (no medicine at the hospitals, pensions cut, et c.,), destroying the economy, and raising taxes on all but the wealthiest Greeks in order to fork over drachma to German and French bankers.>

Theres is no drachma anymore, if you don't even get this, you should not comment. The greek citizens, apparently in their right minds, have accepted similar behavior from their elites for years. And now the elites in Greek do what the want to do anyway and blame shadowy foreigners.

Patriotism, the first refuge of a scoundrel. And still they find useful idiots like you to repeat thier excuses. Are you happy to get the greek elites away scot-free?

>We in the rest of Europe financed integration of the DDR by having to raise our interest rates in tandem with the Bundesbank in the early 1990's,>

I will tell you what happened: the french elites got emamoured with neo-liberalism and the french for wahtever reasons did elect them into office again and again. And for the more gullible, like you, they invented patriotic sounding nonsense about he Bundesbank or whomever forcing them. They wanted to be forced; that is all.

>and we paid for it directly via higher commercial and consumer credit interest rates, and more importantly, indirectly via a Bundesbank-driven recession and weak recovery which caused mass unemployment (here in France, in excess of 12%) and lower purchasing power , essentially a lost decade of economic vitality. [A snip of babbling about Berlin]>

Still in France and th rest of europe a lot more vital then in Germany.

>And now, we are also paying, via the same clownshow at the Bundesbank, who have spread their Austrian-school disease to the BCE,>

There is no bundesbank anymore and Trichet cam from France. If you don't like the policies of the german ECB board members: outvote them. But of course the neolibs you send to Frankfurt would never do this, right?

which is causing another recession in Europe to prove the same point, that they are economically illiterate fools or that they look out for German financial interests first or some combination of the two (I opt for response C).

"They": foreign devils, in this cause east of the border. How convenient.

> As an aside, SPD demands a new Marshall plan for Europe because Die Linke has been denouncing the Berlin clown show for a number of years running and finally the SPD, who got the BOP imbalances started in the first place under Schroeder and his German wage suppression policies (Deutsch "neuer Arbeits" und alle that) figured out they had no choice but to steal ideas for the reviled left. Maybe they'd be a bit more credible if they hadn't played so much a part in creating the problem in the first place, and anyhow, I'll not hold my breath waiting for them to come to power,>

You are clueless about german policies. The bunch of ressentiment peddling (Ostalgie etc) jokers you admire so have lost six out of seven elections last year and don't have much of an economic policy to speak of anyway. Especially regarding europe. They are hardly in position to influence any debate.

>the Ossi dissident (they are always the worst for their countries and the rest of us, those ex-dissidents whove taken power in the east and central European countries since the unfortunate fall of the wall) seems to have captured the German weltenshauung quite well and with it, its votes...>

Weltanschauung? Perhaps from time you should leave the card-board Germany you constructed.

by IM on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 02:48:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Respectfully, I think you are taking too many (none / 0)

things far too literally. Again, I never suggested that Germany would even consider invading another EU nation, allusions even vaguely approaching this statement being entirely tongue-in-cheek, as were allusions to drachma, to DM et c.

I could care less is Die Linke has lost so many elections...small wonder, West Germans have as much phobia about the ex-communists from the east as they have about inflation, misreading in both cases their history. What I do know is that they SPD's best friends here were in the Chirac government, good old centre-right French who are of course somewhat similar to the good old centre-right SPD, neither of which are neo-liberal, just old fashioned continental conservatives. Sarkozy is of course another matter altogether, which is why we call him Sarko l'américain, and why he is so pathetically unpopular here.

Fact is, of course, the Greeks are malgoverned, and they have a history of US-backed military dictatorship which occasioned compromises which, among other things, led their political elite of both strips to turn a blind eye to the corruption of their political system and the wealthy who have never paid their fair share. Of course the country needs to be reformed, but it won't be at the behest of German or French bankers that those reforms happen, and it probably won't happen without expropriations and jail terms which probably would have best happened in the 1970's instead of forty years later. But another fact is that German actions viz. Greece these past few years (and Spain, and Ireland) have been singularly wrong-headed and counterproductive.

Nil aon leigheas ar an ngra ach posadh

by redstar on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 05:26:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Noting in passing that it is Germany itself (4.00 / 2)

who is single-handedly blocking the potential use of BCE power to act as lender of last resort and in so doing go a very long way in resolving the present crisis.

You can say all you like that there is no longer a Bundesbank (which, of course, isn't true, there still is a Bundesbank) and that somehow this means Germany is not responsible for blocking solutions to the crisis its own mercantilist policies have created, via BO imbalances, in the Eurozone, but just saying so doesn't make it true.

And, as far as declaring another person's contribution here is ill-informed and essentially being simply that of an apologist for the corruption of the Greek elite and its willing voters, I would say you simply don't know what you are talking about with respect to the realities of Greek political history, a good survey to be found here:

http://newleftreview.org/?page=article&view=2924

Nil aon leigheas ar an ngra ach posadh

by redstar on Tue Jan 31st, 2012 at 04:30:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

And anyhow, even the badly uninformed German public would never stand for it.

Even? Germany still has the most war averse population of all major European countries. I doubt their government not joining the Libyan clusterfuck can be explained by principles.

Wait this is important. Someone is wrong on the Internet.

by generic on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 03:34:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And that is funny you are only ready to denounce that behaviour oin some foreign country. In this case Germany. Typically nationalistic thinking. Never challenging the own elites, always blaming the foreign devils.

Only objecting to right-wingers if they speak with a german accent is a somewhat fruitless approach in my.

And since Germany probably had the lowest gdp growth rate in the EU between 1990 and now, you history is wrong too.

by IM on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 01:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

See above. I am fully criticising my own country's elites as well, and of course what was our President saying on the television yesterday? That we need to emulate the Germans (among other things).

Hmmm, that's an electoral winner! Hollande I am sure was quite amused.

And of course, in a very short period of time, we will no longer have to look at the other half of Merkozy in an official capacity on television any more.

Nil aon leigheas ar an ngra ach posadh

by redstar on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 02:08:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Funny. I don't like nationalistic thinking, even if it helps the left in its electoral prospects.

I have no problem at all to demand the import of certain scandinavian policies to Germany.

by IM on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 02:51:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I find the exchange regarding nationalism a bit funny in light of a previous one.

In particular:

IM:

redstar had good arguments. Still posting?

But maybe that is just me.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 03:43:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I react to arguments, not to persons. Mostly.

by IM on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 03:52:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Did you dredge up my old posts? You should devise funnier ways to waste your time.

by IM on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 03:53:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, I found yours and redstars views on nationalism similar then and I still do.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 04:14:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh, I hadn't seen that exchange. Thanks for the link.

Well, the Icelandic response, much praised by some economists like Krugman, seems to have had its positive aspects, but I still haven't seen anyone go to jail in Reykjavik for stealing other people's money, the collective neo-liberal psychosis which so patently overtook the public Icelandic imagination having been papered over, all is forgiven, criminal Icelandic bankers feel shame, but not shackles.

A pity, that.

Nil aon leigheas ar an ngra ach posadh

by redstar on Tue Jan 31st, 2012 at 04:33:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

They have brought criminal charges against Larus Welding.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Jan 31st, 2012 at 04:41:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I know these things take time... (none / 0)

but nearly four years to bring charges?

I'll wait to applaud until when some of these thiefs go to jail. And I'll hold my applause for the measures Iceland took until at least one fo

Nil aon leigheas ar an ngra ach posadh

by redstar on Tue Jan 31st, 2012 at 04:58:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I know these things take time... (none / 0)

oops, until one of their political elite spends a bit of time behind bars, maybe in the cell next to a few of their bankers.

Nil aon leigheas ar an ngra ach posadh

by redstar on Tue Jan 31st, 2012 at 04:59:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I know these things take time... (none / 1)

And which point we'll argue that it's only because the voters replaced their political elite with another one.... I'm probably as cynical as you, but my point is that you probably have to follow the Icelandic press to see if anything is happening. (Incidentally, Welding may have spent a short time behind bars; the press reports are a bit vague on that).

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Jan 31st, 2012 at 05:15:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A lot opf germanophobe babbling here today.

I'm sure the British think it is terribly unfair when people complain of the British Empire. After all, everybody wants to rule the world - the British were just better at it.

But no, the Bundeswehr will not be deployed in a colonial capacity in Greece. Which means that Frau Merkel will not get what she says she wants.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 02:44:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are an nutter.

by IM on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 02:49:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Really? You seriously think that Merkel can get the Greek to consent to having a German viceroy appointed to direct their fiscal policy without sending the Bundeswehr to Greece (which we've established that she won't do, for a variety of mostly excellent reasons)?

I'd give a colonial magistrate less than a month before he was out of the country again. Either in disgrace or feet first in a box.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 06:30:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A triumph of European imagination (none / 1)

Atrios is the best.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 06:33:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A triumph of European imagination (none / 0)

Can we call them European rightwing leaders rather than European leaders?

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:03:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A triumph of European imagination (none / 0)

They are in office.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:03:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A triumph of European imagination (none / 0)

Or are you saying opposition leaders should be resigning in shame, too?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:05:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, most of them should... (n/t) (4.00 / 2)

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:08:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah, most of them should... (n/t) (none / 0)

Including most Social Democrats.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:10:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Back in the (none / 1)

day we called Bush & co. just american leaders too.

The problem with european leaders is, if anything, that people cuold think Barroso, Rompuy are (primarily) meant, who if anything are quite minor villains.

by IM on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:34:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Everybody knows Merkel calls the shots.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:35:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not at all. You should know that a lot of the complaints about the euro-crisis are directed against "brussels" or eurocrats, that is against the institution of the EU.

Shifting the blame from the national governments, where it belongs.

by IM on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:44:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

There's the Troika, too: the IMF, ECB and EU Commission.

That the EU Commission is acting on instructions from the Council is true, but the ECB isn't.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:46:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bertelsmann Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you really want to argue that in the last few years the institutions of the EU have got stronger and the states weaker? The reverse happened.

by IM on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:59:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A triumph of European imagination (none / 0)

Megan Greene: German proposal for Greece's compliance: accelerating eurozone exit

If the Greek government rejects the German proposal and the troika refuses to transfer any more tranches of funds to Greece, Greece will default. Without any access to market or official funding and running a primary deficit, Greece would be forced to abandon the common currency and reissue the drachma for the government to carry out basic public services and continue to pay civil servants. Greece would also be forced to exit the eurozone in order to regain competitiveness and return to growth.
I have long thought that the troika would cut Greece loose and let it default and exit the eurozone once eurozone banks had been sufficiently firewalled. Perhaps this aggressive proposal by Germany is one of the unintended consequences of the ECB's three year long term refinancing operation (LTRO). If eurozone banks have as much access to cheap, three-year ECB funding as their collateral allows, perhaps Germany and the troika have decided that eurozone banks can survive a Greek default. Greece is clearly insolvent and must leave the eurozone to eventually return to growth. The German proposal may have accelerated the inevitable.

Of course, Greece could always go the Wörgl route, issuing Euro-denominated scrip. But its economy would be all but cut off from the rest of the EU.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 05:00:55 AM EST

Re: A triumph of European imagination (4.00 / 5)

@jmackin2

German oversight of Greek finances is half the answer. Fixing imbalances also needs Greek oversight of German spending, to push it up

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 06:04:14 AM EST

Re: A triumph of European imagination (none / 1)

Hahahaha... great line...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 07:20:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A triumph of European imagination (none / 1)

The beauty of twitter is the 140-character limit. It's like political haiku.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 08:33:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A triumph of European imagination (none / 0)

Heh... my brain read Haiku as Seppuku at first.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant.

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 12:14:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A triumph of European imagination (none / 0)

Sounds painful.

by sgr2 on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 12:54:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A triumph of European imagination (4.00 / 3)

Yanis Varoufakis: Pointless fury: Why both German and Greek politicians are wrong to be angry

Poppycock, I say! On both sides. On the Greek side, what on earth did we expect? Once a country accepts the logic of massive loans on condition of austerity that deepen the country's insolvency, thus demanding more loans, the moment will come when the international lenders will insist upon direct executive powers. In corporate language, this is known as receivership. Greek politicians that put their signatures on the dotted line of the various `bailout' agreements are stretching credulity when protesting the loss of national sovereignty. The horses bolted months ago.
As for the German politicians, I am afraid that the judgment of history will not be kinder. They willfully piled gigantic new loans on an insolvent nation, on condition of austerity that shrinks the national income from which these loans (plus the preexisting ones) would have to be paid. And then, when Greece's social economy shrivelled and died, they became incensed that the `reforms' did not work, that the tax revenues shrank, that there are no buyers for the Greek state's assets. My message to them is: you imposed an erroneous policy on Greece, and the rest of Europe's periphery, and now you must bear the consequences.
...
If [German politicians] succeed in making austerity work in the middle of a debt-deflationary cycle, I am happy for you to name your price. E.g. if within a year or so Greek GDP starts growing again and unemployment diminishes to below 10%, you can have our electricity grid (that Siemens has always coveted), our water companies, any assets that you name in advance. But, if you fail, then you must pay a price: e.g. pay in full Greece's outstanding loans to the troika.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 09:11:22 AM EST

Re: A triumph of European imagination (none / 0)

Javier Solana: Austerity vs. Europe (Project Syndicate)

Not only is Europe running the risk of lasting economic damage; high long-term unemployment and popular discontent threaten to weaken permanently the cohesiveness of its social fabric. And, politically, there is a real danger that citizens will stop trusting institutions, both national and European, and be tempted by populist appeals, as in the past.
...
Public debt, moreover, should not be demonized. It makes financial sense for states to share the cost of public investments, such as infrastructure projects or public services, with future generations, which will also benefit from them. Debt is the mechanism by which we institutionalize intergenerational solidarity. The problem is not debt, but ensuring that it finances productive investment, that it is kept within reasonable limits, and that it can be serviced with little difficulty.
...
Within the eurozone, structural reforms and more efficient public spending, which are essential to sustainable long-term growth and debt levels, must be combined with policies to support demand and recovery in the short term. The steps taken in this direction by German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy are welcome but insufficient. What is needed is a grand bargain, with countries that lack policy credibility undertaking structural reforms without delay, in exchange for more room within the EU for growth-generating measures, even at the cost of higher short-term deficits.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 09:45:37 AM EST

Re: A triumph of European imagination (4.00 / 2)

Two paragraphs out of three ain't bad.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:07:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A triumph of European imagination (none / 0)

That someone such as Solana writes this indicates that the Social Democratic serious people have shifted their position in the right direction.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:10:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A triumph of European imagination (none / 0)

So far he has corrected the diagnosis but left the prescription the same. When will he propose something that might work. I guess it is hard telling the looters they must stop, but even that is insufficient. They must BE stopped.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:23:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A triumph of European imagination (none / 1)

Well...

What is needed is a grand bargain, with countries that lack policy credibility undertaking structural reforms without delay, in exchange for more room within the EU for growth-generating measures, even at the cost of higher short-term deficits.

There is more along those lines. But he's writing this as an op-ed to influence the right-wing leaders meeting in Brussels this week, and it will fall on deaf ears. It is these leaders that must be stopped.

In any case, the backlash against austerity has begun in earnest, with Mario Monty warning Merkel (and being rebuffed), the IMF, the Economist, the Financial Times... Everyone "serious" is piling on. But it will take time. At least until Merkel is kicked out.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:26:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If only the military are talking sense... (none / 0)

is our best hope a putsch?

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:10:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The military? Wud? (none / 0)

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:12:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The military? Wud? (none / 0)

sorry, I'd always assumed that Solana was from the military, because I first heard of him in connection with Nato. Apparently not.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:48:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The military? Wud? (none / 0)

Solana started out as a professor of Physics, then became minister of Education, then Minister of Foreign Affairs, then NATO Secretary General, then Mr. PESC and simultaneously Secretary General of the EU Council (i.e., he had the jobs of van Rompuy and Ashton together for 10 years!) and then he retired to a sinecure at an atlanticists Think Tank.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:52:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The military? Wud? (none / 0)

In other words, this byline is actually wrong:

Javier Solana, former EU High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy, Secretary-General of NATO, and Minister of ~~Defense~~Foreign Affairs of Spain, is Distinguished Senior Fellow in Foreign Policy at the Brookings Institution and President of the ESADE Center for Global Economy and Geopolitics.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:57:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The military? Wud? (none / 1)

the NATO secretary general is a civilian and usually a former european politician.

by IM on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 12:46:48 PM EST
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Re: If only the military are talking sense... (none / 1)

For nearly two years, the right-wing Austerians have been arguing that "it's austerity or a populist coup". Now it's the Social Democrats arguing that austerity will lead to a "populist backlash".

Apart from being two years too late to the debate, it's the Social Democrats that are right on the historical record, because Austerity was tried and it led to the deterioration of liberal democracy that was used as a bogieman.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:15:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bertelsmann Stiftung (none / 0)

What is this think-tank? It's not one of the flagship foundations attached to a major political party in Germany.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:20:57 AM EST

Re: Bertelsmann Stiftung (none / 1)

The Bertelsmann Foundation (German: Bertelsmann Stiftung) is the largest^[1] private operating non-profit foundation in Germany, created in 1977 by Reinhard Mohn. The Bertelsmann Foundation holds 77.4 percent of Bertelsmann AG.
...
Bertelsmann Foundation has been criticised for their engagement in the political field, especially in educational and labour politics, where they were allegedly promoting neoliberal ideas such as an increase of competition in education and research and for the introduction of tuition fees to the German university system.[3][4] The foundation has been accused of channeling their concepts into reforms of public universities in order to eliminate e.g. free access to education and academic autonomy.[5]

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:29:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bertelsmann Stiftung (none / 1)

No, nothing that old-fashioned, It is a foundation attached to a major, actually the largest media corporation in Germany, mostly found peddling neo-liberalism, especially in the education sector. So that the Bertelsmann corporation can expand their market share in the education sector.

by IM on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:40:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Isn't that what it says there? (more or less).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 11:26:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Die Bertelsmann Stiftung und ihre Verflechtungen | NachDenkSeiten - Die kritische Website

Yes. Replied to the wrong comment.

by IM on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 12:23:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bertelsmann Stiftung (none / 1)

Bertelsmann Stiftung is a major pusher of "Reform" and one of the most influential "expert" voices around. It is funded by Bertelsmann the company.

Die Bertelsmann gehörende Verlagsgruppe Random House ist die weltgrößte englischsprachige und die zweitgrößte deutschsprachige Verlagsgruppe. Zu ihr gehören neben den unter dem Namen Bertelsmann erscheinenden Verlagen, etwa die Deutsche Verlags-Anstalt, der Heyne Verlag, Kösel, der Luchterhand Literaturverlag, Goldmann, Siedler und viele andere mehr, dazu auch die Buchhandlungskette Ludwig.
Nach firmeneigenem Bekunden schalten ,,jeden Tag ... mehr als 170 Millionen Zuschauer einen (der zu Bertelsmann gehörenden) Fernsehsender von RTL Group an:
RTL Television, Super RTL, VOX oder N -TV in Deutschland, M6 in Frankreich, Five in Großbritannien, Antena 3 in Spanien, RTL 4 in den Niederlanden, RTL TVI in Belgien und RTL Klub in Ungarn ein - um nur wenige zu nennen".
Auch die öffentlich-rechtlichen Sender sind mit Bertelsmann verbandelt.
[..]

Das Bertelsmann Zeitschriften-Imperium beherrscht die Kioske: Der Verlag Gruner + Jahr gehört zu 74,9% der Bertelsmann AG. Gruner + Jahr ist wiederum mit einer Sperrminorität von 25,25% am Spiegelverlag beteiligt. Stern, GEO, Capital, Brigitte, das manager-magazin, die Financial Times Deutschland sind nur einige wenige der Titel, die unter der Regie des Mutterkonzerns stehen.

Wait this is important. Someone is wrong on the Internet.

by generic on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:43:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

From wiki:

The Bertelsmann Foundation (German: Bertelsmann Stiftung) is the largest[1] private operating non-profit foundation in Germany, created in 1977 by Reinhard Mohn. The Bertelsmann Foundation holds 77.4 percent of Bertelsmann AG.
<snip>
...
Bertelsmann Foundation has been criticised for their engagement in the political field, especially in educational and labour politics, where they were allegedly promoting neoliberal ideas such as an increase of competition in education and research and for the introduction of tuition fees to the German university system.[3][4] The foundation has been accused of channeling their concepts into reforms of public universities in order to eliminate e.g. free access to education and academic autonomy.[5]

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 10:47:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bertelsmann Stiftung (4.00 / 2)

Here are more answers to your question

Bertelsmann spells lobbyism with a capital L, by the way.

by Katrin on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 11:40:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

worth translating a section or two.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon Jan 30th, 2012 at 01:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]