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So proud of our Dear Leaders

by Colman Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 09:02:22 AM EST

They're going to earn us the economics Nobel as well, for their services to job activation measures:

As the head of Greece's largest oncology department, Dr Kostas Syrigos thought he had seen everything. But nothing prepared him for Elena, an unemployed woman whose breast cancer had been diagnosed a year before she came to him.

By that time, her cancer had grown to the size of an orange and broken through the skin, leaving a wound that she was draining with paper napkins.

"When we saw her we were speechless," said Dr Syrigos, the chief of oncology at Sotiria General Hospital in central Athens.

"Everyone was crying. Things like that are described in textbooks, but you never see them because, until now, anybody who got sick in this country could always get help."

Life in Greece has been turned on its head since the debt crisis took hold. But in few areas has the change been more striking than in health care.

Until recently, Greece had a typical European health system, with employers and individuals contributing to a fund that, with government assistance, financed universal care. People who lost their jobs still received unlimited benefits.

That changed in July 2011, when Greece signed a loan agreement with international lenders to ward off financial collapse. Now, as stipulated in the deal, Greeks who lose their jobs receive benefits for a maximum of a year. After that, if they are unable to foot the bill, they are on their own, paying all costs out of pocket. (Irish Times)

Meanwhile, Kathimerini has seen a draft proposal from the German finance ministry:
However, the German document also proposes that any money from a Greek primary surplus should also be paid into the trust account.

“A dedicated receipt (such as part of VAT income) in the volume of the requested GRC primary budget surplus could be transferred monthly to the trust account (as earmarking of GRC contribution to debt service),” the proposal says.

“The volume of the primary surplus is to be defined in the MoU. The trust account and the earmarking of revenue secure the delivery of the primary surplus and therefore the GRC contribution to the debt service.”

The document adds that should Greece not achieve a primary surplus, as agreed with the troika, it would have to decrease spending or increase revenue accordingly.

The German plan calls for automatic cuts should targets not be met.

“GRC establishes a simple rule for public expenditure. With the agreement of the Troika, cash deficits (deviations from budget plan) automatically lead to spending cuts equally divided through all spending programs (according to their budget share),” says the document.

So very, very, very proud.


Display:
I guess the theory is that either a serious disease motivates them to get a job or they die. Unemployment goes down either way.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 09:04:14 AM EST
And the debts get paid, which is the important thing.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 09:07:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Heartless bastards...I may not live long enough to see them in this same position...but it will come...
by vbo on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 10:08:18 AM EST
Pharmaceutical companies haven't been delivering drugs to Greece for some time now.
I heard that on tv some six months ago
by stevesim on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 10:53:27 AM EST
That's for the Nobel in Medicine and Physiology.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 11:06:10 AM EST


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 11:15:22 AM EST
Alert! The Guinea Pig is running away!


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 11:16:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Where is 'the media'? What are they doing?
Where is the juxtaposition of people dying and politicians spewing platitudes?
Of the poor woman mentioned above and some moron talking about gold?


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 11:26:08 AM EST
Welcome to the Americanism of Europe. (Can't exactly call it "Anglo," since Britain has not dismantled her social system...yet.)

Steven Wood's 15 minutes of fame, if you want to call it that, came in July when he became the first homeless person to receive a summons for allegedly violating the Colorado Springs ban on camping on public property. He pleaded not guilty to the charge in municipal court Aug. 7 and was to return to court Aug. 21.

But Wood, 52, never made it. Sometime after his arraignment he died, so the case was dismissed. We can't know for sure, but the county jail may well have been the last time Wood had a roof over his head

http://www.gazette.com/news/wood-146340-consider-prayer.html

by asdf on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 01:54:06 PM EST
Surely at some point it has to occur to Greece that it has an outsized number of weapons and army accoutrements and that the best way to sort out this debt service stuff is go burn Bavaria to the ground?
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 03:06:31 PM EST
Of course, tactically, it would probably start by seizing foreign assets inside Greece, but it comes down to the same thing.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 03:10:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To be fair, there are many Greek shipping tycoons who are equally to blame, maybe even more so
by stevesim on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 03:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Making examples of debtors and strutting about making pronouncements about central bank independence is all fun and games until people start dying of treatable diseases.

People like Jean-Claude Juncker have been prevaricating about the legality of secondary-market purchases since day one. People are dying to protect the purchasing power of rentiers whose net worth is denominated in fiat money.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 09:39:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But it is so important to pretend that the Euro is backed by gold. Actually it is amazing how the bankers have managed to achieve all of the effects that being on a gold standard used to provide the the wealthy, starting with the golden rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules." The way the Euro is handled provides all of the advantages of a gold standard without the inconveniences of an actual gold standard.

I would laugh my ass off if the German audit committee could not find even half of the actual gold in allocated accounts. Of course, for an audit to make sense it would have to include having all of the large holders performing simultaneous audits, else the bullion banks could just change the labels to who ever was being audited at any given time. If they lie about everything else, when it is 'serious', why should they not lie about this?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Oct 27th, 2012 at 12:52:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually it is amazing how the bankers have managed to achieve all of the effects that being on a gold standard used to provide the the wealthy, starting with the golden rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules." The way the Euro is handled provides all of the advantages of a gold standard without the inconveniences of an actual gold standard.

Which only goes to show that economics should be about institutions. Microeconomic studies of economic behaviour are all well and good (though they should be part of a broader psychological, sociological and cultural study of behaviour and not an attempt at superseding those) but the same micro agents will give rise to different economies depending on the legal and institutional framework they operate in. And that is macroeconomics and monetary economics.

The Euro has proved that it is possible to legislate a neoliberal la-la-land into existence, thereby destroying a continent-wide economy.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 27th, 2012 at 03:39:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
there are many Greek shipping tycoons who are equally to blame

Why does the EU tolerate tax havens in its midst, and convenience flags, and all the rest of the bullshit that allows Greek shipping tycoons not only to evade taxes, but to be able to easily access their stash of evaded moneys?

(Yes, Jean Claude Juncker and Yves Mersch, I'm looking at your Little Big Duchy)

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 10:07:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They had a chance to say no. They didn't. That doesn't justify everything, but it needs to be mentioned.
by oliver on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 03:34:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, okay, we'll put Papandreou alongside Schäuble in the docket at the trial.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 09:34:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This would help the prosecution a lot: The story of the missing USB stick from HSBC Switzerland, with the list of tax evaders that Lagarde gave the PASOK ministers. Sheer farce...

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 11:08:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And the people who didn't say no are showing no sign of murdering anyone except their own people and immigrants. Supposedly they will be replaced soon.

Von überall könnte das Volk, Urbrut alles Undemokratischen, Zelle des Terrors, über die gewählten Hüter von Wachstum und Wohlstand® kommen. - flatter
by generic on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 11:24:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How will that help when the market gods are angry? How will it placate them?

Reading the Illiad at the moment. It's not helping my frame of mind.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 09:45:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
nazi loansharks, with golden dawn in situ for the wetwork.

more debt to these guys has to be the right move, quoi?

"It's very hard to see what is kept invisible" Roseanne Barr

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 04:29:20 PM EST
... capital punishment. But the swine who wrote that conditionality need to be strung up from the Brandenburger Tor and buried next to Dr. Cutler.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Oct 25th, 2012 at 05:20:40 PM EST
Why? The Greek government asked for money. It is true that they were told in dire terms not to default and leave the Euro. Yet they do not wish to do so anyway.

Insisting on harsh terms may be unwise, but it is not criminal. If you are looking for that kind of blame, go to Athens.

by oliver on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 08:46:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They do not need to leave the euro. The whole concept is bullshit. What needs doing is that the euro needs to be fixed. Instead we're all bailing out German banks at German insistence because Germany, like many to all of the EU countries, is run by right-wing nationalist dickheads.

(Note, I did not say extreme nationalist. Just nationalist.)

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 09:29:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See Things we don't talk about (October 10th, 2012)
"if the issue is to save our banks we should give the money to our banks" which is not done for political reasons. [Jürgen Donges] concludes "it is true that, when we talk about 'rescuing Greece or Spain', and we economists say so, we're rescuing our banks exposed to those countries. It is clear to us."


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 09:33:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That changes are not acceptable to Germany.
by oliver on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 10:58:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Correction: those changes are unacceptable to the German establishment, which by the way is demonstrably insane.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 11:07:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If it were up to the voting people of Germany, the conditions would be harsher.
by oliver on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:25:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We know that.

That the German voting public would support harsher measures that those already imposed on Greece or the ones quoted in the body of the diary, in view of the consequences of the past 3 years of policy, is a national disgrace for Germany, IMHO.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:39:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But you refuse to recognize the constraints on feasible solutions to the current crisis this implies. German public opinion on this is quite firmly set. There is a limit to the the extent and duration the government can deviate from the public opinion if a certain threshold is crossed.
by oliver on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:53:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The only feasible solution left since September is a massive uncontrolled default within the Eurozone. That seems pretty obvious to me.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:58:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Just following orders" has been used to excuse murder by German government officials before. It was not then and is not today a valid excuse.

But happily, German departure from the Eurozone would be perfectly consistent with German public opinion. The Eurozone could then have an orderly default on its external debts, and the ECB, now absent obstructionist goldbuggery, could tell "the markets" to shrivel and die.

Germany would then get to enjoy its splendid isolation as the final relic of that barbarous 19th century quackery.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:01:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But you refuse to recognize the constraints on feasible solutions to the current crisis this implies. German public opinion on this is quite firmly set.

I don't refuse to acknowledge the political constraints. I'm appalled by them. That's why I continue to want to disbelieve why I read and hear.

What is going on in the EU is a moral disgrace, and to be sure the German public is not the only party to this. Most mainstream political parties are just as guilty. Anyone supporting "austerity" in 2013 is guilty by (at least) willful ignorance.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:05:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most mainstream political parties are just as guilty.

And I mean EU-wide, not just German.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:45:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The public opinion on this point is very much influenced by the government. Most people swallowed the fairy tale that Germany is spending a lot of money to "help Greece". And helping Greece only became increasingly unpopular after the government made this a nationalist issue. That's what I blame Merkel for most: playing the nationalist card.
by Katrin on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:05:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
German public opinion is quite firmly set on pauperizing the mass of the Greek population, and indeed exterminating its poorest members, while the richest in Greece get to dictate the terms under which they will get richer? And this to no obvious benefit for the average German? Is this what you are claiming? Have they ever been asked the question in these terms I wonder?

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:56:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]


If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.
by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:59:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Have they ever been asked the question in these terms I wonder?

That would be demagoguery.

And this to no obvious benefit for the average German?

Virtue is its own reward.

German public opinion is quite firmly set on pauperizing the mass of the Greek population, and indeed exterminating its poorest members, while the richest in Greece get to dictate the terms under which they will get richer?

German public opinion would know, if they thought about this, that the Greeks bought this situation on themselves.

(disclaimer)

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 07:53:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Germany is not, however, at liberty to turn the Eurozone into a death camp.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 11:15:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Say you and how many divisions?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 11:21:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Which means the Euro is not acceptable to Germany. So lets just get it over with.

Von überall könnte das Volk, Urbrut alles Undemokratischen, Zelle des Terrors, über die gewählten Hüter von Wachstum und Wohlstand® kommen. - flatter
by generic on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 11:27:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's what's in the process of being teased out.

But of course the Euro is acceptable to Germany in its current form. Its purpose is, after all, to have Germany's European trade partners pay the economic cost of German mercantilism.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 11:32:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If there had been unlimited and unrestricted monetization of all Eurozone debt in 2008, people would not have died of poverty.

There wasn't, so they did.

That's murder. No different at all from a bullet to the back of the head. The governing boards of the Bundesbank, the governing boards of the ECB, the German cabinet, the Greek cabinet, the European Council, and the IMF delegations are murderers, just as much as the participants in the Wansee Conference are murderers.

And any pious-sounding excuses for that are horseshit.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 11:12:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If there had been unlimited and unrestricted monetization of all Eurozone debt in 2008, people would not have died of poverty.

But that would have been illegal. And, more to the point, unnecessary. All that was needed was unrestricted secondary-market purchases of government bonds, which would have been entirely legal despite the prevarications of the EU's financial policy establishment.

There wasn't, so they did.

True.

The governing boards of the Bundesbank, the governing boards of the ECB, the German cabinet, the Greek cabinet, the European Council, and the IMF delegations are murderers, just as much as the participants in the Wansee Conference are murderers.

There are enough blood-curdling statements by EU or member state principals. For instance,

FDP boss Rösler proposes toughening the deficit limits

As the German cabinet and Bundestag put their finishing touches to the legislative proposal to enhance the EFSF, economics minister and FDP leader Philipp Rösler proposed to toughen the  deficit limits in the stability and growth pact, Süddeutsche Zeitung reports. "I could for example imagine that we lower the current deficit limit of 3%", he said. "We must think about how we further tighten the budgetary thumbscrews".

"Thumbscrews" is an explicit torture reference.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 11:20:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(Source for Rösler)

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 11:22:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
All that was needed was unrestricted secondary-market purchases of government bonds, which would have been entirely legal despite the prevarications of the EU's financial policy establishment.

Twoscore of one, thirty-nine of the other (after the private investment bank has taken its bid-ask spread).

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 11:23:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Makes all the difference in the world in a court of law, which is where the German establishment appears to be ready to take Draghi anyway.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 11:25:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So set up a government-owned shell bank.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 01:09:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought we also wanted to sever the link between banks and their sovereigns.

(Where a big part of the problem is that the sovereigns are not sovereign because of the prohibition of monetary financing, and we're back to square one)

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 01:37:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, we want to end the lavishing of money upon bankers.

A government-owned shell bank doesn't even need a CEO or CFO, let alone buildings. It only needs a treasury letterhead and another boot option on the treasury secretary's computer.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:05:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you don't like the results of the treaties you signed, don't sign them. Or back out of them. Or make Germany face the ultimate decision and be ready for the result.
But don't forget who enacted the laws whose results you detest.

Defending something by all means is never easy on the means. It is unwise in the long run. And arguably its a dereliction of duty on the part of those who are supposed to guard the people turned into cannon fodder.

However, you cannot blame Germany for doing what you blame others for failing to do.

by oliver on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:22:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you don't like the results of the treaties you signed, don't sign them.

You're implying that the response to the financial crisis follows logically from the EU treaties. It doesn't. In particular, the treaties do not forbid secondary market purchases of public debt instruments, even though all the serious people have spent the two years and a half from February 2010 to August 2012 protesting that they do forbid it.

The crisis is a crisis of choice, and the politicians (and officials) that made the choices are directly responsible for the consequences of those choices.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:36:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The German view on this was known. Given the German economy's size it was clear that this view would not simply be ignored. They knew or should have known what they signed.

The risk was willfully ignored.

by oliver on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:43:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, I doubt most people were aware of just how flawed the Euro's construction was when the Maastricht Treaty was signed.

No matter, at this point exiting the Euro wouldn't solve anything that a default within the Euro wouldn't solve.

In fact, the German government's position leaves no way out of the crisis but a massive default on private debt owed by peripheral to core countries.

And of course, the EU's chosen policy is to get the peripheral governments to guarantee ever incresing shares of this private debt so that the default, if and when it happens, will be public, not private default. In the case of Spain, public default has been made unconstitutional a year ago. Which doesn't mean it won't happen, it just means it will also lead to a constitutional crisis.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:48:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For example, this 1992 piece was right on the mark. I personally only found out about it within the past year or so, and I didn't have the macroeconomic knowledge to understand the argument behind it and why it is correct. The author was a heterodox economist, so his views and those of others who voiced similar criticism of the Euro were accordingly ignored by mainstream policy debates, if a sensible debate was had at all. For too long, people have trusted the jusgement of the European political elite and believed their assurances that it was all done for "the European ideal". A key part of "the European ideal" was solidarity (the word is in the treaties, look it up). People are now dying of curable diseases to reassure German pensioners that they will retain their pension's purchasing power. Some European solidarity, that.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:57:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Godley was 'out of the mainstream' because he tracked and accounted for economic flows and distinguished between stocks and flows. This is very dangerous, as by so doing one might make obvious what is actually happening in a way far too many people could understand. I think he and Randall Wray were office mates at The Levey Institute. Godley is like the godfather of Modern Monetary Theory, which takes as its compass following what is actually done by banks and other generators and users of money. The 'mainstream' doesn't dirty its hands by dealing with actual money, which is not really even a part of its models.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Oct 27th, 2012 at 01:23:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have been reading Godley and Lavoie's Monetary Economics. In it they refer very favourably to James Tobin, who was doing stock-flow analysis in Yale within a neoclassical perspective.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 27th, 2012 at 03:57:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Tobin once wrote of the metaphor of the Invisible Hand: "You would think by now we would have found some of the fingers at least." Tobin wasn't swayed by nonsense, regardless of how pervasive it became.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Oct 27th, 2012 at 08:28:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It was assumed that Germany would defer to reality when it conflicted with German theology.

Evidently, the reality-based parts of Europe were wrong about that. But that is not an excuse for using fundamentalist theology as a guide to practical policy. Macroeconomics cannot be a faith-based initiative.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:50:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Macroeconomics cannot be a faith-based initiative.

Without dire consequences for all, that is.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:51:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't "blame Germany for doing what I blame others for failing to do." I blame Germany for opposing unconditional and unlimited fiscal intervention in support of full employment, just as I blame everyone else who does so, in equal measure to the force of their opposition.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:38:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Germany is doing what it thinks national interest and the lofty European ideal demand.
by oliver on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:45:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Germany is willfully murdering people. The motives do not matter.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:47:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suppose Germany deserves a medal for its handling of the Euro crisis?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:49:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course not.

There were two sensible options.
Either immediately use all possible means. Or give up immediately and do an orderly liquidation.

However, it is also clear that the constraints Germany has make either solution impossible for Germany to take. Others would have had to force the situation.

by oliver on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:06:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Others" assumed German good will, "in the European spirit". That was their mistake, starting in the Autumn of 2008.

Also, Germany's size (30% of GDP!) and net creditor position (6% of German GDP, 2% of EU GDP!) makes it rather more powerful than the rest. "Others would have had to force the situation" just might have worked if France, Italy and Spain had made a common front. Which is still not really in evidence, and the dysfunctional nature of their political leaders in the past 4 years has been a definite contributing factor apart from the hungups about being "good Europeans".

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:10:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bullshit. If the Bundesbank had been instructed, in 2009, to support immediate, unconditional and unlimited ECB intervention to cap bond yields throughout the Eurozone, nobody in the German public would ever have heard about a "European debt crisis." The whole matter would have been resolved in an afternoon, and all it would have required would have been ending the Bundesbank's and the ECB's "independence" - which nobody in the public cared about until it became a nationalist issue.

That was Merkel's political choice to make. She owns that choice.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:14:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am convinced that a simple statement of a guarantee would have been enough. The same guarantee as for deposits in German banks. That wasn't put to the test either.
by Katrin on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:18:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Possible, but improbable given the current account imbalances.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:24:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Another German political choice in Autumn 2008 was to refuse the idea of an Eurozone-wide deposit guarantee. Germany is sticking to that choice.

The best thing Germany could do right now would be, given that they are not willing to entertain joint deposit guarantee, to cease guaranteeing nonresident deposits in German banks.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 05:22:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If the Bundesbank had been instructed

The Bundesbank neither takes nor seeks instructions from politicians.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 07:56:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wanna bet?

The BuBa chairman's job is protected by treaty, but nobody else's is.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Oct 27th, 2012 at 06:56:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They would have leaked the order and caused a giant shitstorm. No government could risk that for it'd lose. Independence of the central bank is sacred in Germany.
by oliver on Mon Oct 29th, 2012 at 05:47:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In any normally functioning democracy, the central bank will always lose a full-scale showdown with the government. Nobody except policy wonks cares about central bank "independence" on election day.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Nov 2nd, 2012 at 01:06:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not in Germany. The government would lose. Especially as the government doing this would simply break the law. That law might be changed, but there wasn't and isn't a majority for that.
by oliver on Sat Nov 10th, 2012 at 12:04:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not true. Germany is doing what it thinks national interest demands. Period. There is no thought of Europe. Not even the pretence of spending a thought on lofty European ideals.
by Katrin on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 04:58:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tu Quoque


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Mon Oct 29th, 2012 at 05:59:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and its quisling government in Athens is killing people.

I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from them Eugene Debs
by redstar on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 03:16:49 AM EST
please take a look here

<a href="http://justiceforgreece.wordpress.com/2012/08/23/calling-on-all-humans-to-resist-tyranny-in-2012/">http://justiceforgreece.wordpress.com/2012/08/23/calling-on-all-humans-to-resist-tyranny-in-2012/</a>

and here

<a href="http://justiceforgreece.wordpress.com/2012/07/29/to-the-prosecutor-of-icc-save-greece-save-the-cradle-of-western-civilization/">http://justiceforgreece.wordpress.com/2012/07/29/to-the-prosecutor-of-icc-save-greece-save-the-cradl e-of-western-civilization/</a>

and help us to punish the culprits by asking to the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, to activate the examination of crimes against Greece and Greek people.

I invite you to, please read, sign and pass on, the petition

by kotso on Fri Oct 26th, 2012 at 09:00:50 PM EST
Welcome to ET, kotso. Check out some of the diaries about Greece on ET, many by Talos.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Oct 27th, 2012 at 12:38:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Oct 27th, 2012 at 01:48:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
About Justice For Greece
In this blog,  will gradually be accumulated all the legal steps taken especially against the political and State leadership of the country after 2009 and all evidence capable of supporting the struggle of all Greeks. The evidence for that, will be found attached in every lawsuit and in every upload. To help you, at the end of each post, there will be and other publications related to the topic. Use the tags, however.

You will also find here, appeals to the international courts  and organizations, but also the electronic request (petition) to the Prosecutor of the ICC (here) . The purpose of this move, on the one hand,  is to inform the public  through the history of the initiative, and on the other hand, through signatures, clamp both the Prosecutor and the  ¨saviors¨  of Greece. (see the background)



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 27th, 2012 at 03:35:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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