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Wednesday Open Thread

by dvx Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 12:41:43 PM EST

Your midweek autumn awesomeness!


Display:
Just a seed comment tonight. My mind is too slow to think of a seedy one.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 12:44:38 PM EST
Unexploded WWII Bombs Pose Growing Threat in Germany - SPIEGEL ONLINE
Tens of thousands of unexploded Allied aerial bombs from World War II are still lurking underground in German cities. The treacherous delay-action bombs in particular pose a growing threat because their detonators have corroded to the point where they have become too dangerous to defuse.

A good three hours after he took off from England, Henry Chandler had a beautiful view of the Brandenburg region of Germany. From the cockpit of his Boeing B-17, he could see the Havel River in front of him and, to his right behind the aircraft, a light haze over Berlin. Within a few minutes, the 25-year-old pilot was gazing down at the town of Oranienburg from an altitude of some 6,000 meters (20,000 feet).

OAS_RICH('Middle2'); Chandler gave the order to open the bomb bays.

This was on Thursday, March 15, 1945. The pilot was commanding one of the 612 aircraft of the US Eighth Air Force, which was flying a mission against Oranienburg that day. He dropped 11 bombs on the small town, each weighing 500 kilos (1,100 pounds). In the 45 minutes between 2:51 and 3:36 p.m., a total of 4,977 explosive bombs and 713 incendiary bombs rained down from the sky.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 12:54:47 PM EST
Construction workers dig up a bomb every couple of months in every major city, and to date it's been no big deal - a small item in the local news section. But if the detonators are buggered, then the bombs have to be detonated in situ.

An entirely different kettle of sushi.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 01:40:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yea, nasty. They turn up in the UK every now and then, but I guess there are many more in Germany.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 02:03:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
theres always this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Richard_Montgomery

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 03:47:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ignore it and it'll go away.

I've always been surprised they've not tried burying it in cement rich sand.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 03:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Scheiße.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 01:21:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And so yesterday evening I went to the launch of a new beer from the brewery where I worked last week. A low key affair with no press whatsoever. The pub was chosen because tht's where the brewer used to be a bar manager.

But it was fun, 2 pints of a 5.8% brew tends to mellow your view of the world in general. I spoke to a home brewing guy, who'd helped design the beer, and it sounded interesting.

Earlier, I'd been to some pubs in a very smart part of town, basically an area absolutely perfect for having serious real ale pubs. But these weren't. Oh, they sold "real ale", but it was obvious that they had no real understanding or appreciation of beer as anything other than a niche product to put on the bar. It was poorly kept and I was left wondering why they bothered.

Real Ale need attention and care, but if you look after it your pub will be full. As was evidenced by the pub where the beer was launched, pretty full from early on a tuesday. But if you don't, then your pub will be unloved, as were the others. It's very sad, cos these bars are a great opportunity going to waste.

however I had to leave early after just two pints cos I had another brewery experience this morning. Just a "getting to know you" trip to a place just down the road from me, but hopefully it'll be worthwhile down the road

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 02:14:55 PM EST
Guardian - Simon Jenkins - British soldiers are dying in Afghanistan to win the war of Whitehall

Next week Nato defence ministers meet in Brussels, reportedly to start planning an Afghan army "retraining mission" next year. Start planning? What have they been doing for over a decade? When will spades be called spades and retreats retreats?

Afghanistan has become another war of the Spanish succession, its cause long forgotten by the opponents but an unending parade of pride, money, heroism and national prestige. It is no longer a war of retribution for 9/11, no longer a war of democratic nation building. It is merely a place where soldiers are sent by politicians to pretend to win, even as they die.

The one straw at which ministers and generals will grasp is that as long as the war lasts, it helps them lobby for money. Ever since Nato lost its reason for existing, its task has been to find a purpose. It has dragged out the insane Afghan conflict for 11 years. Why stop now? In the one battle that matters to a modern army - the battle for resources - the Taliban is not an enemy but an ally.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 02:21:26 PM EST
A good article about the problems in the way of the UK Labour Party's road to recovery.

Guardian - Seamus Milne - Ed Miliband must move further and faster from New Labour

Miliband's attack on corporate predators and a broken model of neoliberal capitalism has of course been richly vindicated in the past year, as the Libor rate-rigging scandal followed the exposure of banks' mis-selling of financial products - even if his "responsible capitalism" slogan is scarcely going to inspire and Labour's opportunity for using G4S's spectacular failure at the Olympics to expose the outrage of outsourcing was undermined by the fact that security in Manchester this week is being run by none other than G4S.

But plenty of other senior Labour figures don't agree with him, either about the failure of the neoliberal model or the need to break with New Labour politics that depended on it. The Blairite diehards grouped around the Lord Sainsbury-financed Progress faction, for instance, may be in retreat and are ostensibly loyal to "our leader, Ed Miliband".
[....]
The journey away from New Labour is in fact in its early stages. As this week in Manchester has showed, Britain's main opposition party remains hollowed out, its conference stage-managed, its policymaking procedures opaque and its internal democracy limited. The professional mannequins who run the party machine still dominate the working-class voices that have been all but squeezed out of political life outside the trade unions. However, when it comes to the central economic choices, Ed Balls remains sceptical about Miliband's call for a new economic model and resistant to anything that might threaten the interests of the City of London.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 02:27:41 PM EST
Guardian - John Harris - What does 'one nation Labour' mean for people on welfare? - Video

John Harris reveals the callous hypocrisy in Labour's stance on welfare, effectively abandoning the poor.

So, there you go. Vote Tory, and you get a social security crackdown with a budgetary target. Vote Labour and you get a social security crackdown without a target.

Makes you feel better, doesn't it ?

Liam Byrne always was one of Blair's most gleefully cruel  right wing putzes, that he's in the Shadow cabinet reveals much about Labour's failure to shake off the mistakes of the past

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 02:47:38 PM EST
The tragedy of Helmut Kohl and his 'Lady Macbeth' - Europe - World - The Independent

To make matters worse, the father of German unity and the ardent advocate of the single currency now stands accused of causing the deepening euro crisis, while his tumultuous private life is likely to be the subject of an upcoming book.

"Reunification is not only one of the underlying causes of the euro crisis, it is also one of the reasons behind our inability to solve it," Wolfgang Münchau, one of Germany's leading economic analysts, said this week. "This is exactly the tragedy of Helmut Kohl: with his great political coup of German unity, he sowed the seeds for the destruction of his greatest political dream of European unity."

Some analysts argue forcibly that Mr Kohl was so blinded by his political obsession with European unity that he pressed ahead with an ill-advised single currency that has plunged the Continent into crisis.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 02:53:49 PM EST
A famous pop DJ, Jimmy Saville died last year. It now turns out that he was a particularly active molester of underage girls who frequently used his widely admired charity work as a threat to ensure the silence of his victims and those who might have exposed him.

Considering the alleged "bravery" of our tabloid press in exposing the sexual shenanigans of minor celebrities, their willingness to back down shows them as the bullying cowards they are.

The BBC, his employer, has not covered itself with glory. Its cancelling of a programme revealing his proclivities, its denial of any knowledge of his behaviour, its protestations that no such behaviour happened on its premises; all have been revealed to have short-sighted self interest and are unravelling. It'll be interesting if anyone gets blamed.

Anyway, there are a lot of articles about this, a lot of them refreshingly mentioning Jimmy Page's own preference for children; this is a good 'un.

Guardian - Suzanne Moore - Liking young girls is not a preference, it's a perversion

Jimmy Savile, laid out in state in Leeds, revered as a great eccentric, gave a lot of us the creeps for decades. Women are now telling us how he raped them when they were children. We say in our jaded way: "Well, really, who knew?" Lots of people, as far back as 1973. Either the rumours could not be printed as "the girls" would not identify themselves, or he scuppered them by threatening to pull his work for "charidee". What if a few "girls" got a quick one from a superstar DJ? That's a small price to pay for the amount of money Savile raised for Stoke Mandeville, isn't it?

Anyway it's just what happened at the time. Not all of it was that glamorous, "I'm with the band" stuff. Jimmy Page was teaching a 14-year-old the tricks of the trade. The late, great John Peel was getting married for the first time to "an underage girl" he claimed had lied about her age. And I was being groped in the store cupboard by a wheezing shop owner. It was the price you paid for a Saturday job and we mostly avoided him. It was probably our own fault anyway for being vaguely female and wearing those sexy supermarket overalls. When I did meet Pamela Des Barres, top Led Zeppelin groupie, I found hers a sad ambition and was glad to be of another generation. She had to kid herself she was a muse, until, of course, Page replaced her with an actual kid.

Liking "young girls", never "children", was just a preference in a "gentlemen prefer blondes" way. I say no: this is not a preference, it is a perversion. It was in the 70s, and it is now, and I don't know what men my age are playing at defending this behaviour. Would they want their daughters marrying a Bill Wyman? I sat aghast as Michael Grade and David Hepworth were interviewed on Channel 4 News. Wasn't it all so louche then, what with Jerry Lee Lewis and his 13-year-old bride, and didn't every "girl" dream of being on Top of the Pops? You just couldn't move for "groupies". Savile is accused among other things of abusing children in an approved school in Staines. Rock'n'roll?



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 03:16:01 PM EST
Jimmy Savile's affections laid bare by...Jimmy Savile? | Times Opinion on Tumblr

In today's Times story about the allegations surrounding Jimmy Savile, David Sanderson highlighted some quotes from As It Happens, Savile's 1974 autobiography, that nobody else seems to have picked up on. It's strange that they haven't, because they are startling:

[Savile] writes of an incident at the Mecca Locarno ballroom in Leeds, where he worked as a DJ during the 1950s, when a female police officer came in with a photograph of "an attractive girl who had run away from a remand home".

Savile writes: "`Ah,' says I all serious, `if she comes in I'll bring her back tomorrow but I'll keep her all night first as my reward'." He then writes that the girl did go into the club and "agreed that I hand her over if she could stay at the dance, [and] come home with me". He wrote that he did then hand her over to the "lady of the law...[who] was dissuaded from bringing charges against me by her colleagues, for it was well known that were I to go I would probably take half the station with me".

I repeat, this is Savile's autobiography. It wasn't winkled out of him by a cunning interviewer; he didn't let it slip when he was pissed. It wasn't a post-modern joke.

Now there  was a guy who was a feature of Popbitch who lived in Leeds, and had a supposed big story on Jimmy Saville, However wasn't willing to put it about as Jim had apparently very good connections with a selection of Northern gangster and putting it about before The old perv had died would end up with you not only getting heavy treatment from Jims Lawyers, but also a pair of broken Legs from Jims Gangster mates.  He did say that he'd left an envelope with apropriate proof with someone in case he died before Jim (Which he did) unfortunately, when Saville died Popbitch had to put out an appeal, as they couldn't remember who had the envelope full of evidence, as he'd told them who had it after a rather large drinking session.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 04:09:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jimmy Savile: The birth of a paedophile hoax on "Have I Got News For You" | SO IT GOES - John Fleming's blog

Late tonight, ITV1 are broadcasting their much-publicised Exposure programme on The Other Side of Jimmy Savile. They are mad. They should schedule it in peak time.

A couple of days ago in this blog, I posted an alleged transcript of the un-broadcast sections of a BBC TV Have I Got News For You episode in which Jimmy Savile appeared. At the bottom of the transcript, I revealed that it was a 1999 hoax.

The reason the hoax has been believed by many over the twelve years since it first appeared is partly because it was built on (as it has turned out) well-founded rumours.

But also because it was so well-written.

So who wrote it and why?



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 05:13:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Everybody knew, nobody said.

Of couse, as they say, they were different times back then, but you have to wonder if anything has really changed with regard to celebrity depravities and whether a similar thing could happen in the future

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 05:40:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just looked up an image of Savile, and ... YUCK.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 01:34:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
as someone was saying last night, retrospectively it should have been obvious, what with him dressing like a PE teacher

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 07:39:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I knew you'd want to read it here first...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 03:16:16 PM EST
ooooh, yuk

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 03:18:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
B92: Serbian authorities decide to ban gay parade (OCTOBER 3, 2012)
All other gatherings planned for Saturday have also been banned. The Interior Ministry (MUP) made its decision based on security assessments.

Earlier in the day Serbian Orthodox Patriarch Irinej urged the authorities to ban the parade, and an exhibition, deemed to be insulting to Christians.

The exhibition, dubbed "Ecce Homo", and the gay parade were planned as part of the week-long Belgrade Pride 2012.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 03:24:58 PM EST


keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 03:32:22 PM EST


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 08:52:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, gawd, if I had to think of all the men in the world only from the viewpoint of mistakes they made with their dicks, I'd have to avoid ever listening to any man ever again.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 01:36:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you. Though, as your sig line suggests, you may be a little short on wisdom...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 01:57:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
People like to cite the effects of Ralph Nader's 3rd party run or the Florida fiasco/Supreme Court decision to explain W's win over Gore when in fact the main reason for Gore's loss centered on his need to dissociate himself from Clinton and all the great economic good at that time because people were so disgusted with Bubba. Yes, we got W because of Clinton's bullshit and now he's trying to rework his image. Sorry Bubba, too late.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 08:44:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Business Insider: Germany Tip-Toes Toward a Euro Exit (The Daily Reckoning, October 1, 2012)
ECB president Mario Draghi famously deemed the euro "irreversible"; he would do whatever is necessary to preserve it. But what Draghi sees as necessary will eventually be seen as intolerable in creditor countries like Germany. Once Draghi starts monetizing Spanish debt, Germany and other wealthy countries will view the euro's costs as greater than its benefits.

...

Do you think many investors would hold Spanish bonds while whole regions were threatening to secede, fighting a central government that might morph into a military dictatorship? Or that in this scenario Germany would tolerate staying in a euro collateralized by Spanish bonds? I don't think so.

Germany will watch as all of this unfolds and realize that Spain's austerity promises will be broken. The ECB will be left holding hundreds of billions of Spanish debt, with no possible exit and constant pressure to continue monetizing Spanish debt. It will be then that the drive to exit the euro will pick up speed.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 03:45:50 PM EST
Germany Tip-Toes Toward a Euro Exit - Business Insider
A German exit would trash the euro's value against the currency that's steadily becoming the reserve of choice: gold.

Oh, right. We were all forgetting about that currency.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 04:01:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Seems like a win-win.

Germany gets to live in virtue and stop paying for horrible foreigners.

The rest of the Euro gets to monetize debt and gets an exchange rate that matches the competitiveness of their economies - giving them a chance to get out of crisis.

Have to say - of more importance would be that the Euro would crash in value vs the D-mark... but that might not be as much to Germany's advantage as some seem to think.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 04:20:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Seems like a win-win, except it will only happen after the Nazis are in power in Greece and Spain is torn by internal conflict, at which point Germany will leave the euro in disgust at those Southerners who cannot govern themselves.

Some "wins" are full of FAIL™.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 04:39:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

US coal exports to Europe soar

US coal exports rose 24 per cent - hitting a record of 66.2m short tons - in the first half of the year, according to the US Energy Information Administration.

Sales of US coal have been booming in Europe as power generators there ditch more expensive natural gas in favour of coal.

More than half the US exports, which represented about 13 per cent of US production, went to Europe.


End of the line for cheap labour

The rows of rectangular capsules lined up in a factory in Dongguan in southern China look like sleeping compartments for astronauts. The 24 Japanese-made knitting machines in the factory of Hong Kong-based Milo's Knitwear will soon be joined by four more. In total, the machines cost the family-owned company $1.8m.

A factory with neat rows of machines and just two workers is the antithesis of the typical image of Chinese manufacturing. At other facilities in the industrial province of Guangdong, just across the border from Hong Kong, thousands of workers are typically hunched over their work stations making everything from iPhones to running shoes.

But the automation on display at this factory is emblematic of a new industrial revolution in China driven by the changing nature of the labour force: the three-decade old one-child policy has led to a shortage of labour; competition for workers is so fierce that employers have had to dole out raises in the high teens annually to retain them; and many youngsters increasingly prefer working in China's restaurants and stores to the tedium of making widgets. The labour shortage is likely to worsen because China is ageing fast. Less than 20 per cent of the population is under 14, down from almost a quarter a decade ago, according to the World Bank.




Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 05:01:52 PM EST
There's a diary at the Orange place saying His Shrillness, Paul Krugman, will be offered Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors if Obama is reelected next month.

Four years late, but I'll take it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 05:18:17 PM EST
He can continue his spat with Steve Keen on WH headed notepaper

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 05:45:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Eh, this is just a GOTV, stir up the base rumour.

We'll come back to find if Romney wins, Greg Mankiw will get the post and if Obama wins, Greg Mankiw will get the post...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 07:01:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In case it was not previously obvious, Mitt Romney has now officially lost the election. He said he was going to fire Big Bird by defunding PBS ("public" TV).

Maybe it is not evident to non-Americans what a travesty that proposal is. Every single kid in the country either grew up on Sesame Street or "remembers" that they did. And it's not little kids, either--the show started in 1969, so the start of the Sesame Street generation is now in their forties, which is well into the voting population.

The angry old white guys in the GOP have really done it now...

by asdf on Wed Oct 3rd, 2012 at 10:54:01 PM EST
Eh, I didn't see the debate, but reading of it suggests Mittens did very well, at least stylistically.

Obama was playing a Prevent Defense.  As any football fan can tell folks, the only thing a Prevent does is prevent you from winning.

Better bring his A-game to Rounds 2 and 3:

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 06:25:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
http://twitter.com/UKProgressive/status/253822472565161984/photo/1

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 07:43:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
apparently he did "well" by lying his ass off, something which is widely predicted to be catching up with him in the next few days. He seems to have given Obama a lot of opportunities for attack ads.

Now, the question is; how do you debate with lies / You could try confronting them, line by line, there and then. But that actually makes you look like a putz and a pedant.

Far better to string him along, take one for the team with a slight loss, and then rack up the wins in the next few days as you allow your other guys to be putzes and pedants on your behalf.

and even the big CNN loss percentage being touted only comes from the fact that they only sampled good ole boys in southern states. Once that rolls around a news cycle, everyone's gonna doubt what they saw and felt.

We may be in the last 5 weeks, but it's still a long game

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 07:52:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Evidently Big Bird is not the right height.

Vote Obama or Big Bird gets it

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 07:47:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Anyone see the debate last night?

It won't air here in Finland until later this evening, but it appears both the political pundits and the polls have given Round 1 to Mittens as the clear favorite. Hard to believe. And surely disappointing news.

Could we now hear something contrary to this, and more encouraging from our stateside posters? Please.

by sgr2 on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 10:57:56 AM EST
Obama just wasn't on his game.  He seemed listless and slow, and missed many opportunities to confront Romney. I wondered if he were ill with a cold or the flu. Also I thought it strange that he didn't bring up some of the hot issues like Bain and the 47%, nor did he point out that Romney's middle class is the over 250K-ers.  

On the other hand, Obama has a very organized ground game; phone banks, door knockers, etc. and Obama has done tons of research into what really works in getting out the vote.  He's also smart enough to let Romney hang himself with lies that will surely be discussed for the rest of the campaign.  

by ElaineinNM on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 11:30:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for your comments Elaine.  

Your last paragraph sounds encouraging. Let's hope it plays out just that way.

by sgr2 on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 02:58:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Like chess, the more moves you look ahead, the better - if you know your numbers - you can advance to checkmate.

Or championship football. Careful analysis of video and direct observation can give a clue to how the 'opposing team' might play.

I don't say the Obama team is using such 'gamesmanship', but they would be stupid not to. Perhaps Obama was just not up to it. And of course both sides can play the strategy game.

But pragmatic beats ideological in most contests.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 03:51:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also I thought it strange that he didn't bring up some of the hot issues like Bain and the 47%,

Just as well. Romney probably had his prepared response and he didn't get a chance to use it.

Well, clearly in a campaign with hundreds if not thousands of question and answer sessions, now and then you're going to say something that doesn't come out right. In this case I said something that's just completely wrong. And I absolutely believe however that my life has shown that I care about the 100 percent and that has been demonstarted throughout my life. This whole campaign is about the 100 percent. When I become president it'll be about helping the 100 percent.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Oct 5th, 2012 at 03:32:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Won't know how the debate went - who "won" - until Monday of next week.  A priori analysis done by pundits is as often wrong as right.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 04:01:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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