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Thursday Open Thread

by In Wales Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 11:17:59 AM EST

Delights within


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Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 11:18:48 AM EST
Well, it seems to me that Obama was playing a long game. In the debate itself it seems to me that if he scraps with Romney about the amount of truth in Mitt's claims, then he's fighting on opposition turf and they both get equally dirty.

so he just lets mitt run his mouth; sure he "loses" the debate, but by the time the fact checking shreds everything and they reveal how fixed the post-debate polling was, nobody will believe their impressions of the debate and all will have been forgotten by the time 5 days have passed, let alone 5 weeks on polling day.

Mitt may have won on points, but he needed a knockout Frankly, he never got close to that.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 11:56:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oops, sorry, that should have been on its own.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 11:57:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You don't find the presidential debate delightful?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 01:06:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Didn't see it. Nor particularly interested in doing so. It must be a culture thing. I think they're useless, a complete waste of an opportunity

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 01:24:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Even the extended debate on Democracy Now (today's) sucked. Not once did I hear the work "Empire" or "bribery" but I did hear a lot of "there's no reason we can't ... blah blah blah".  Sure there's a reason ... the govt. is corrupt and we're screwed until we get rid of it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 03:40:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mitt may have won on points, but he needed a knockout Frankly, he never got close to that.

I usually don't care for sports analogies, but I'd go a different route: There were 5 minutes left in the game, and Mitt was down 21 points.  He drove the ball down field and managed to put 7 on the board quickly.  Now there are 4 minutes left.

Hopefully Obama's people have now figured out that their Prevent Defense sucks.  Bench the shitty 5th defensive back and put your pass-rushing linebacker back out there to force Mitt into a mistake.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 01:33:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think they'll keep it up in the next debate, then he might come out and mix it up a bit, probably with a few laugh lines, in the last one.

romney is actually the one who needs to do better, cos he's doing so badly elsewhere. Obama can afford to coast

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 02:03:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The world is just one or two Obama gaffes away from having the US run openly as a corporation: benefits for "shareholders" only, mean survival pressure on the rest. The debates are a good opportunity to produce that gaffe.

Having seen Gore and Kerry doing their best not to beat George W., I can expect anything from Obama. Corporate or austerity governments should be a political impossibility, but all political and media sides seem to embrace that challenge.

by das monde on Fri Oct 5th, 2012 at 02:20:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I pretty much stopped paying much attention to the US elections. For me the winner of this election is already quite clear: Big Business, Wallstreet and the top 1%, well maybe with Obama the top 10%.

Also the US seems to be continuesly having elections, there seems no more beginning and ends to the elections.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 02:04:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
classic sales tactics: The illusion of choice. Lots of options disguise the fact that there's very little to choose between them so advertising is used to create brand loyalty

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 02:47:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]


It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 11:48:15 AM EST
kelia, sept 2012

such a belle!

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 11:54:21 AM EST
With some babies, you have to bite your tongue and say "My what a beautiful baby!" while thinking "OMG that ugly kid is going to have a tough life."

Not in this case, though. That is a fine looking infant.

by asdf on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 01:43:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lovely, she looks like an old soul. :-)
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 02:00:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just what I was thinking.  I know adults that don't have that much wisdom in their eyes.

Now where are we going and what's with the handbasket?
by budr on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 03:38:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
to think 20 years ago they didn't think young babies had any cortical development... now they know better.

soul communicates through the eyes, and babies have a lot in common with very old people, to do with cognition.

sometimes the camera sees what we can not.

warm wisdom.

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 06:01:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Current West Coast main  line fiasco, Apparently channel 4 have  an interview with the author of a report sent to the Department of transport five days before ministers signed the contract predicting the problem

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 02:02:26 PM EST
John Snow signs off the segment saying "and if any of the Ministers involved in this process (Justine Greening, we mean YOU) would like to come into the studio and discuss this, we'd love to have them on."

hahahahahah

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 02:11:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oxfam: Land snapped up by corporations could have fed nearly 1 billion | The Raw Story

International land investors and biofuel producers have taken over land around the world that could feed nearly 1bn people.

Analysis by Oxfam of several thousand land deals completed in the last decade shows that an area eight times the size of the UK has been left idle by speculators or is being used largely to grow biofuels for US or European vehicles.

In a report, published on Thursday, Oxfam says the global land rush is out of control and urges the World Bank to freeze its investments in large-scale land acquisitions to send a strong signal to global investors to stop "land grabs".

"More than 60% of investments in agricultural land by foreign investors between 2000 and 2010 were in developing countries with serious hunger problems. But two-thirds of those investors plan to export everything they produce on the land. Nearly 60% of the deals have been to grow crops that can be used for biofuels," says the report.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 02:49:19 PM EST
Get your news 5 years early on ET

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 02:56:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
'Trillions of carats' of diamonds found under Russian asteroid crater (Wired UK)

The Russian government has revealed that a vast quantity of high-quality diamonds rests beneath a Siberian impact crater, numbering in the "trillions of carats".

The Popigai crater, 100km-wide and located in the isolated north of the country, was formed roughly 35.7 million years ago by the impact of an asteroid estimated to be between five and eight kilometres wide. Its collision created a wealth of impact diamonds -- which form when an existing diamond seam is hit by a large falling body -- in such quantities that could, it is claimed, supply the world diamond market for the next 3,000 years.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 02:53:34 PM EST
Oh shit i'm gonna haveta sell off my dimons
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 03:21:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Diamonds aren't all that rare.  The diamond cartel run by the De Beers company keep the price up through supply manipulation.

If you want to sock away your billions in rare crystals, these are a better bet.

 

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 03:44:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
apparently they are only good for industrial use, not fine enough for jewels.

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 06:03:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EFSA press release: EFSA publishes initial review on GM maize and herbicide study (4 October 2012)
Main findings of Initial Review

The task force, whose members were drawn from the Authority's GMO, pesticide and scientific assessment units, has outlined a list of issues about the paper that would need to be resolved before it could be viewed as well-conducted and properly-reported study.

  • The strain of rat used in the two-year study is prone to developing tumours during their life expectancy of approximately two years. This means the observed frequency of tumours is influenced by the natural incidence of tumours typical of this strain, regardless of any treatment. This is neither taken into account nor discussed by the authors.
  • The authors split the rats into 10 treatment sets but established only one control group. This meant there was no appropriate control for four sets - some 40% of the animals - all of whom were fed GM maize treated or not treated with a herbicide containing glyphosate.
  • The paper has not complied with internationally-recognised standard methods - known as protocols - for setting up and carrying out experiments. Many of these procedures are developed by the OECD (Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development).
  • For a study of this type, the relevant OECD guideline specifies the need for a minimum of 50 rats per treatment group. Séralini et al used only 10 rodents per treatment set. The low number of animals used is insufficient to distinguish between the incidence of tumours due to chance rather than specific treatment effects.
  • The authors have not stated any objectives, which are the questions a study is designed to answer. Research objectives define crucial factors such as the study design, correct sample size, and the statistical methods used to analyse data - all of which have a direct impact on the reliability of findings.
  • No information is given about the composition of the food given to the rats, how it was stored or details of harmful substances - such as mycotoxins - that it might have contained.
  • It is not possible to properly evaluate the exposure of the rats to the herbicide as intake is not clearly reported. The authors report only the application rate of the herbicide used to spray the plants and the concentration added to the rats' drinking water but report no details about the volume of the feed or water consumed.
  • The paper does not employ a commonly-used statistical analysis method nor does it state if the method was specified prior to starting the study. The validity of the method used is queried and there are questions over the reporting of tumour incidence. Important data, such as a summary of drop outs and an estimation of unbiased treatment effects have not been included in the paper.
  • Many endpoints - what is measured in the study - have not been reported in the paper. This includes relevant information on lesions, other than tumours, that were observed. EFSA has called on the authors to report all endpoints in the name of openness and transparency.


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 03:47:51 PM EST
Strangely, most of these talking points came out within a day or two of the Seralini et al study's media launch. It was then predictable that a concerted effort would be made to discredit the study to the point where it no longer appears necessary to conduct further research. If necessary (and I predict), Seralini himself will undergo character assassination.

Yet further research should be carried out. Just not under the auspices of any regulatory agency (such as EFSA that has contented itself with rubber-stamping FDA decisions on GMOs).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 04:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Previous threads: 20 September and 22-23 September.

There's a lot of information there. Maybe somebody could put together a diary?

I said I might look at the paper and the statistical methodology, but haven't had time.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 04:47:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Under the assumption you're still on course to your own pub, why not find a current pub to your liking which could use a sprucing up with your "ale expertise". Become a middleperson to that establishment with the various ale producers, perhaps host a monthly "ale tasting" to draw in new clientele. Split the profit from the sales with the owner; you'll be forced to drink the loses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 03:49:59 PM EST
Have you changed your medication? This sounds sensible.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 03:57:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now Sven, be nice,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 04:04:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm always nice - except when scientists ignore perceptions.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 04:11:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Please elaborate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 04:15:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The hardest part of the communication process is the last 8 cms.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 04:19:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A combination of code and puzzle and ... whatever.

Have a good day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 04:28:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Truffle on!

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 04:28:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Great idea, if only the market worked like that.

I could see it working if I was able to get up to those pubs I visited on Tuesday often enough to build a trust relationship. But the fact is that there's an awful lot of expertise to call on right outside the door if they were serious about it.

They just aren't that interested. If they were, they wouldn't sell beer like that. It's not rocket science, you just need to give a shit. And they don't

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 04:17:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because nobody has ever shown them the bottom line. Demonstrate to them the investment, the timeline and the potential returns - and thus profit - and they will agree.

In my experience it is very hard to convince anyone on any altruistic (or taste) basis. Show them the numbers. They always fold. You have to turn opinion into fact.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 04:26:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's the thing I don't understand about these pubs. They're in an area where pubs that do good beer are extremely busy. Yet, from drinking their beer, they seem to labour under the mis-apprehension that simply having the beer on a pump is all that is necessary. But I cannot, for a minute, imagine that anybody who sinks the best part of £500K to a million quid into buying and doing up a pub hasn't at least looked into how you look after real ale. It's basic, yet their pubs are empty.

And the thing is, they've all got their own schtick. One's a 50s rock and roll pub, one's a bit boho, another is appealing to the film crowd, another is very definitely aiming at gastro status. So, maybe, they feel that their core clientele aren't interested enough in real ale to make it really worth the effort. I don't know. As you say, they're passing up good trade, but they evidently don't want it cos they're chasing rarer meat.

But I don't know how to talk to people who run pubs with real ale who aren't interested in keeping it in good nick. Cos deep down I think they're idiots. Idiots with more money than sense, but idiots first and foremost. I'd rather they manifested their indifference by not stocking it in the first place, it's more honest.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 05:15:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The proof you need is that pubs that sell good ale (in spite of the additional expense) are profitable. I have no idea whether this is a crowd puller or not. But I assume that a half a million investment is not done purely for tax write-offs. They may well be idiots, but even idiots can read a business plan, otherwise they wouldn't have half a mill.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 05:50:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Demonstrate that you can make them money ... greed never fails.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 04:30:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Especially in this economic climate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 04:31:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Although there may be others with similar expertise to yours, those people probably don't have your free time nor are they flush with cash from a recent real estate sale. So buy a case of this and that ale of your choosing from the brewer (you don't even have to tell them that you will eventually want to distribute for them down the line ... you could be poaching on another salesperson's territory) and go up the food chain if necessary. Start with the guy behind the bar and see if he/she likes your taste in ales. Could be an in with the owner. But in the end ... make them MONEY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 04:42:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, it doesn't work like that. Real ale only comes in casks, I actually don't trust bars with lots of bottles, it's posey and chasing fashion. Well fashion changes and I can't be arsed with trendy people like that.

so, basically you're walking into a bar and telling the guy behind the counter his beer sucks. Not gonna go down well

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 05:18:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A Helen walks into a bar and asks for their finest ale? What kind of response do you get?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 05:22:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would never do that, given the wide variety of beer available and the variation in taste, it should be reasonable to ask for tasters of a couple of beers having first established which of the beers you are more likely to want.

Lately I really annoy them by asking for a brown coloured beer (nb not brown ale, a specific type of beer). Due to fashion far too many beers right now are yellow and you can see them panic when asked for a brown coloured beer

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 05:42:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh and I meant to say, his favourite beer would not necessarily be mine. So, the phrase "your finest ale" may be a staple of films about ye merrie englande, but has little to do with reality

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 05:44:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
consultant... that could work. better if you set up a beer blog first, get your critical chops into a ring where they'd be most appreciated.

once you have realworld results from one establishment, the next clients'd come easier. people need good aggregators, to save them trouble sorting out the wheat from the chaff.

besides, the natural authority of your perceptions reveals the 10,000+ hours of research done in such public service, surely that's bankable in some universe...

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 06:11:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yea, that makes sense. All i need is a blog

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Oct 5th, 2012 at 02:42:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
After 21 days, Bye-bye Nadine.

The 2nd longest lasting Tropical Storm ever recorded in the Atlantic has bit the ...

dust(?)

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Thu Oct 4th, 2012 at 03:55:24 PM EST
World celebrates birth of the Beatles 50 years after release of Love Me Do | Music | The Guardian
On 5 October 1962, the Beatles' first record came out, Love Me Do. It only reached number 17 in the charts, but that was it, the Beatles had got started, which is why, 50 years later, there will be anniversary celebrations, dancing in the streets, imposing symposiums, TV and radio progs, and thousands, yes I do mean thousands, of lookalike Beatles groups performing all over the globe. Plus a few events in England, where it all began. And ended.


It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Oct 5th, 2012 at 07:35:04 AM EST
and the release of the first bond film, the astonishingly racist Dr No

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Oct 5th, 2012 at 08:04:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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