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Tuesday Open Thread

by afew Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 11:38:27 AM EST

Not-US-Elections Open Thread


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grey dull day here.

So dull in fact that Cameron has buggered off to the Middle East to try to boost BAE's profits by selling them loads of fighter jets in case they need to fight another extension of the Arab spring against Iran. Anything happening elsewhere ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 11:50:11 AM EST
Beautiful weather. Healthy cat. Walking farther every day. No complaints.

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 11:50:33 AM EST
One of my students for Chem 6B/Microbiology from 5-6 years ago; now a registered nurse; married a Navy guy.

Weeeeelllll ... she just gave birth to her first child/daughter. Says the grandmother (her mom) is ready to move in with them to help out but Megan's saying "No Way!".

And life goes on.

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 11:59:28 AM EST
"Mine!"
Becoming a parent makes you understand what Gollum was on about. In a good way.

-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 12:22:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Supposed to be working on my novella in the Post-Modernist Corporate White Paper genre.  Having a hard time concentrating.

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot
by ATinNM on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 12:47:00 PM EST
Nadine Dorries has been suspended from the Tory party,

Calling the PM and Chancellor Posh boys who hadn't got a clue wasn't enough
Trying to wreck the party over Abortion wasn't enough
fiddling her accounts didn't do it
bullying her constituents didnt do it
Lying about constituents being investigated by the police didn't do it

Signing up to appear on a reality TV show while Parliament was sitting however was.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 12:52:45 PM EST
Obviously. Ignoring your constituents and ripping them off is okay, for a Tory that's what being an MP is about. But advertising that you're doing it on telly is giving the game away.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 01:31:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Listening to Sveriges Radio (P2) and this:

keeps assaulting my eyeballs.  

  1.  Who is this person?

  2.  Why isn't he in an insane asylum?


Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot
by ATinNM on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 01:40:48 PM EST
  1. Eduard Khil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Eduard Anatolyevich Khil (Russian: Эдуард Анатольевич Хиль; IPA: [ɛdu'art ənɐ'tolʲjɪvʲɪt͡ɕ xʲilʲ] (often transliterated as Edward Hill); 4 September 1934 - 4 June 2012) was a Russian baritone singer and a recipient of the People's Artist Award of the RSFSR. Khil became known to a western audience in 2010 when a 1976 recording of him singing a non-lexical vocable version of the song "I Am Glad, 'Cause I'm Finally Returning Back Home" (Я очень рад, ведь я, наконец, возвращаюсь домой) became an Internet meme, known as "Trololololololololololo" or "Trololo".[1]

  2. Because he is dead. Also Russian.

Also, Putin sez:
His name is connected to an era in the history of Russian music. Eduard Khil was unique in his extraordinary charm and lyricism, constant in his professionalism, vocal culture and creative taste. Many of the songs he performed became part of the golden fund of the Russian stage.

Internet sees:


A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 03:02:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Xref: teh Trololo

uff da

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 03:28:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Apa means ape.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 03:44:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Blame the person at Svergies Radio (P2) who cropped the picture.

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot
by ATinNM on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 03:53:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I'm almost all the way down the Baja Peninsula. I'll probably be in La Paz tomorrow. I've done three days in a row of hard riding which so far on this trip has meant I feel sickly on the 4th day, so so now I'm resting.

I'm finding that I'm embarrassed about not knowing any Spanish which hasn't happened to me in any other countries I've been to. Partly it's me and I think it's partly the reaction of the locals. So I'm going to do a week of language school in La Paz just to get something under my belt, then I'm going to do a month or two of school once I get down to Guatemala where it's a lot cheaper.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 01:52:00 PM EST
Wow, Lake Titicaca. You're at 12,000 feet, it's entirely possible you're feeling sick from altitude.

I'm told the locals recommend chewing a local leaf, I suggest you try some ;-))

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 01:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's also a La Paz in Mexico at sea level which is where I will be soon. I don't think I'll go to La Paz in Bolivia, but who knows. I did spend a lot of time at 6k-10k feet while in the US on the Colorado plateau and I adjusted to it pretty well, although based on past experience I don't really feel it until I'm at 12k (beyond sucking wind in general when doing anything athletic).

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 02:14:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you going all the way back up the peninsula or are you taking a boat across ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 02:25:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ferry from La Paz to Mazatlan.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 02:29:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
are you photoblogging this trip someplace? the visuals must be interesting.

have a good rest day!

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 02:46:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Photos are here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mark_sch/

Thus far I haven't been taking nearly as many photos as last trip.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 02:59:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A personal favourite :

"Badger don't care bout boiling acid pool"

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 03:22:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
those are amazing.

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 03:57:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Those total immersion classes are good. A guy I met in Panama had taken one and went from "moderate classroom ability" to "able to have a regular conversation with a Spanish-only local after a month...
by asdf on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 02:35:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
do you listen through headphones while riding? i bet there are some free spanish lesson mp3s you could use for practice while traversing the deserts...

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 02:48:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I do listen to music and podcasts, but I don't like the idea of having to divide up my mental energy by trying to learn Spanish while riding. Particularly down here you have to be 100% alert for animals on the road or the road itself being out just around the next turn.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 03:01:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I used to teach total immersion. It works, but a month is necessary for most people to make real progress.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 03:29:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
anyone know what the new copy sidebar control is in firefox?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 02:45:42 PM EST
The TribExt one?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 03:25:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Apparently, it's a kind of clipboard repository: each time you copy/paste between windows or tabs (you do that a lot when using TribExt), a copy is kept is that sidebar.
You can check it out via View|Sidebar|Copy sidebar menu items and clear it if needed.
by Bernard on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 03:26:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the access was by ctrl+shift+s on previous versions, but on the new fireox version I'm getting that defaulting to a debugging pannel instead, and I've got a full copy sidebar

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 04:39:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the Translate feature has turned to shite in the last couple of months (presumably Google's fault : everything else is)

It absolutely can't handle accents. Freaks out completely.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 04:50:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yep, accents are tripping Google translate: kind of a bummer when you're working with foreign languages...
by Bernard on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 05:18:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That used to happen to me, till DoDo fixed it. It isn't happening now, I've just tested it.

Are you sure you've got the latest version?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Nov 7th, 2012 at 02:01:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"TribExt v0.1234 for FF 16, a sub-version extending compatibility to Firefox 11 to 16, was released in August 2012."

I just (re)loaded this version, and it's still got the accent bug.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Wed Nov 7th, 2012 at 03:52:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not mine. I'm trying to remember if DoDo suggested a fix for it.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Nov 7th, 2012 at 04:54:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The fix I suggested to afew is not in the public release yet. The reason is that it currently doesn't work universally for me, and I couldn't figure out why. But here is the fix for afew, maybe it works for you:

1) go to the ...\extensions\tribext@someone\chrome\content\ library and open translate.js in a text editor,
2) find this line:
     var url = "http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&eotf=0"+"&ie="+chrSet+"&sl="+lang1+"&tl= "+lang2+"&q="+escape(text);
3) remove the character set definition:
     var url = "http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&eotf=0&sl="+lang1+"&tl="+lang2+"&q="+esc ape(text);
4) relaunch Firefox.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Nov 7th, 2012 at 05:39:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What negative effect have you observed from not forcing the character set? (i.e. why don't you put it in the release?)

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Wed Nov 7th, 2012 at 06:54:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Some non-ASCII Unicode characters (including the Hungarian ű and ő, the Polish ł, and others I don't remember now) still didn't pass through for me and I don't get why. I may look at it again in the following days.

Just for the heck of it: could you test the result if you try to translate the following from Hungarian to English with TribExt's Translate in your own browser: "Űrlényt főzött a zsűrinek Őzike."

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Nov 7th, 2012 at 05:24:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
U0170rlényt% f%% u0151zött the jury u0171rinek u0150zike%.

I should have a look myself. Laziness really. Haven't coded any javascript for a couple of years.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Thu Nov 8th, 2012 at 09:46:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Go through the menu View - Sidebars - Copy, as suggested above. It still says Ctrl+Shift+S is the keyb shortcut, but it gives me debug menu as for you.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Nov 7th, 2012 at 01:57:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
my friend is writing a thesis on the medical history of Koch and Pasteur, it has been fascinating discussing it with her as it forms.

anyway, she is german and well up on her own country's history, but knowing how many euro-history buffs there are here at ET, she asked me if i could ask a few questions, hoping some kind reader will come up with some useful factoids/links for further research.

 1. What was the french sentiment towards germany before the war 1870/71
 2. How did nationalism develop in France
 3. what was the Economical situation in France between 1800-1900
 4. what was the image of science in france between 1800-1900?
 5. was there much cross-border collaboration between scientists between the two countries during that period.

my chief take away from the research she has done was the insane, almost religiously insane resistance to the concept of sanitation, apparently the german doctors at one point wanted to stay dressed in filthy bloody pussy robes because that was a badge of the field they battled on, and they were proud of it.

the struggles Semmelweiss had to go through -including dying in a strait jacket from an infection that if his gift had been believed, would have not killed him- are fully as flat-earth bonkers as anything the CC came up with, and that's a high bar indeed.

last question: How much prestige does the institut LUIS PASTEUR enjoy, in history to now - how much is Pasteur still a french icon of national pride in discovery?

TIA

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 03:05:24 PM EST
yes, the Louis Pasteur institute is the pride of France but is also at the cutting edge of science in virology.  Remember, they are the ones who first identified the HIV virus.

Prior to the 1870 Franco-Prussian war, the French already hated the Prussians.  There were no "Germans" at the time.  This was because of the many wars between Prussia and the French in the previous centuries, but also in the not-so-distant past, during the Napoleonic Wars.

by stevesim on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 03:18:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
based in Lyon, is the world's largest vaccine company, the direct descendent of Pasteur's lab, and the industrial arm of the Institute.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 03:38:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As Steve said, Germany didn't exist until 1871. Not sure about the French feelings before the 1870 war, but after the Napoleon disaster and the subsequent loss of Alsace and Lorraine, Germany did replace England as the main enemy (says a lot :).

Nationalism in France mostly developed during the revolution, in the late 18th century, at a time when several European powers tried to topple the newly created republic: this was the time when conscription was set up (to defend the Nation) and the Marseillaise was written. The disaster of 1870 and the restoration of the Republic also sparked a revival of the national sentiment: a "revanchiste" attitude vis a vis Germany but also creation of the public school system with an aim at unifying France under the French language and eradicating regional languages.

Economy/science/cross-border cooperation: well, 1800-1900 is too long a time span in the French history. At the turn of the century, Napoleon I killed the Republic, established his Empire and ruined the country (and its adult population) over fifteen years of wars. Then: restoration of the Monarchy, another revolution in 1830, another Monarchy, another Revolution in 1848, a short-lived 2nd Republic until 1849 and Napoleon III as an emperor until the ill-fated war against Prussia in 1870.

Paradoxically, the last part of the 19th century, after the defeat of 1870, was probably the most prosperous and stable period for the country (the third Republic lasted 70 years, a very long time in French history). This is when French scientists like Pasteur or the Curie did most of their work, Jules Verne published his successful (and science filled) novels, when Paris became renowned worldwide as "the City of Light".

So I suppose the best answer for your friend is: depends on which half of the century. during the first half, the political situation was too unstable to favor much scientific progress, although this didn't stop people like Ampère, Fourier or Laplace.

But after 1870, the French economy was in a better shape and the French public became definitely more enthusiastic about science and technology. Jules Verne's novel do reflect this public attitude.

by Bernard on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 04:04:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bernard:
Nationalism in France mostly developed during the revolution, in the late 18th century, at a time when several European powers tried to topple the newly created republic: this was the time when conscription was set up (to defend the Nation) and the Marseillaise was written. The disaster of 1870 and the restoration of the Republic also sparked a revival of the national sentiment: a "revanchiste" attitude vis a vis Germany but also creation of the public school system with an aim at unifying France under the French language and eradicating regional languages.

While the German nationalism started during the Napoleonic wars with a "revanchiste" attitude vis a vis France.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Nov 7th, 2012 at 11:14:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Look around for articles about hand washing--plenty of studies say that there is a lot of further room for improvement in this area...
by asdf on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 05:54:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks guys, generous and thorough as hoped for!

vielen dank

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 07:18:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
melo:
 5. was there much cross-border collaboration between scientists between the two countries during that period.

19th centruy science was in general a small world. Collaborations does not from my understanding appear to have taken much notice of borders, though lack of speedy communications tended to keep things local, as in within your own university. Last half of the century, and in particular the last quarter sees a rapid expansion of telegraphs and railroads. In the same period comes the first scientific journals, the first books indexing articles and books and an upswing in international conferences and stuff like World fairs (which back then was where any aspiring nation sent scientists to copy from the best).

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Nov 7th, 2012 at 11:11:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ET is being very slow.  Server problems in the US?

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot
by ATinNM on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 09:22:40 PM EST
Site unusable.

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot
by ATinNM on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 09:35:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And now it's fine.

WTF?

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 09:36:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Site screwed.  Will check back in a couple of hours.


Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot
by ATinNM on Tue Nov 6th, 2012 at 09:48:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BooMan says the server was brought down by an attack.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Nov 7th, 2012 at 02:03:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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