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Thursday Open Thread

by afew Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 11:12:24 AM EST

Give it a whirl


Display:
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 11:14:07 AM EST
I like the poster in the last frame.  Eartha Kitt and Burgess!!
by stevesim on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 11:46:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yesterday at the brewery was tiring. It isn't really organised around convenience and there are several parts of the brewing process where considerable fitness, flexibility and strength are required. None of which i possess.

At one point the brewer invited me to "zoom up that ladder", to which I replied that it's been at least a decade since I "zoomed" anywhere. I don't think I could seriously consider working at such a brewery cos I just couldn't hack their working practices. The other brewery I've been to is much more sensible in terms of how things are done.

Fortunately, being a brewery, refreshment is always on hand, and you have to check what you're doing.

Another aspect I found surprising was the variability. I tried one batch of a beer that was incredibly tasty and yet, another batch, probably brewed within a few days, was bland and very ordinary. If they can't do it, how does anybody else manage ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 11:36:21 AM EST
I find that rather surprising.
by stevesim on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 12:57:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It may come from the fact that the brewer is, to a certain extent, still tinkering with the recipes. There are two completely different yeast strains being used and they make a considerable difference.

But equally, different batches of the same malt will perform differently. If you are a large brewery with a big chemistry set to do testing, then these inconsistencies can be eliminated to a greater extent. But small breweries just have to live with what they get

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 01:12:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...different batches of the same malt will perform differently.

Yup.  That's a key property of micro-ecologies.  A good brew master can control, for some extent, the wild swings using his/her experience to make small adjustments in the recipe, wort, & etc.  As an example, the absolute and relative mineral content in the water will almost certainly vary depending on the time of year and yeasts use/need minerals for their life cycle with different concentrations, absolute and relative, having different affects and effects on their life cycle.

(this is all Biology 101)

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 01:23:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen:
there are several parts of the brewing process where considerable fitness, flexibility and strength are required

Which I would guess fits the constructors views on who is working in a brewery. At least it tends to be that way.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 01:54:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yea, there's certainly an element of "are you man enough?" at a lot of breweries. Which feeds into the reality that there's a lot of old-fashioned equipment knocking about, even in new breweries. Stuff where access and convenience were never factored in.

nothing an industrial strength Dyson wouldn't fix (hah!!)

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 02:19:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by stevesim on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 03:48:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dunno, never had it and, judging by that article, I'm never likely to. 'Sides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I'm not the biggest fan of Belgian beers.

the best beer is your favourite beer, the one you keep going back to. For me it varies from day to day but usually hovers around 5 or 6 beers. Schlenkerla "Doppelbok" and "Marzen" feature highly, Farmers "Drop of Nelson's Blood", Magic Rock "Surreal Stout" but there are others.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 04:14:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Did you know that there were no earth worms in North America before Columbus and that they were probably imported from the UK?
by stevesim on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 12:06:06 PM EST
Yes.  Do you know the downside?

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot
by ATinNM on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 12:24:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Work for worm grunters.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 12:33:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
While we're on worms, we might give this a whirl.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 12:38:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What that article tells me is we need to keep naive scientific reductionists out of Biology Labs.  

At gunpoint, if necessary.

At the end of the day, Biological organisms, processes, systems, networks, blah-blah-blah, are adaptive.  Put Biological organisms, & etc., under pressure and they WILL change (See: Monsanto, GMO crops, nematode adaption to) in ways we cannot predict (See: Chaos, mathematics of) in ways we really do not want to experience (See: Justinian's Flea, Yersinia pestis bubonic plague, mega-death.)

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 01:03:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thumpers!

We have wormsign!

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 01:02:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Really?  You knew that?  

I knew about dandelions but the earth worms I find rather surprising considering how many there are and how damned slow they are.  Not to mention, not very intelligent.

by stevesim on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 12:59:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes.  

 

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 01:07:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
wow.

and wow to the Bush ranch in Paraguay!

by stevesim on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 01:19:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the Bush ranch in Paraguay

Heard about that one some time in the early 2000's... It's pretty amazing.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 01:31:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's worth taking a look at that Bolivia-Paraguay-Brazil region (the Gran Chaco) in Google Earth, and zooming in to see the land-use patterns.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 02:37:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that was an amazing diary and comments.

De in finest of fettles, sigh... wherever you are De, be well.

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 04:11:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So many good people go missing

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 04:21:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
De's blog has been re-named but harvest went well:

Facepalm Epoch » Blog Archive » Saving Seeds

Harvest -- the astonishingly generous return of life on a relatively small effort in bed preparation and planting -- has a whole new meaning for me this year. This is the first year that I've actually sold my produce to others, the first year I've produced significant quantities of any staple (the taters), the first year I've made a conscious effort to save and label seed. I made many errors -- quite a few plants failed entirely, there really isn't enough sun on the plot -- but still ... I've stepped across a threshold here. I might, someday, with luck, be able to call myself a real gardener I might actually be able to feed myself and my significant other. It's a watershed of some kind. I feel I really live here now: the dirt is under my fingernails, and I've cooked several meals that mostly came from 50 feet away.


A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 10:23:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have read somewhere that Ireland has been invaded by French Mediterranean worms, another sign that the earth is warming...
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 04:15:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 04:29:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...is not just a phenomenon in the Middle East, but the entire world.

"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 12:40:43 PM EST
Man, that was a bath in warm LSD

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 12:52:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wow. One searches in vain for a fact.

Who knew being a soulless well-paid shill was so easy?

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt t gmail dotcom) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 03:27:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure whose bright idea it is to turn the air conditioning on in our building during the afternoon when it's 50F outside, but it's some bullshit.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 02:10:26 PM EST
It's 50F where you're at? Such hardship.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 02:12:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not so much an issue of the temperature as the lunacy at work with maintenance.

"From the people who brought you sprinklers during rainstorms..." and all that.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 02:31:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
2014....  Year of the independence referendum?

CiU and ERC commit to referendum in two years.

Artur Mas (chief of CiU, and Catalan president) is disposed to activate his sovereigntist plan in less than two years due to the electoral setback suffered in the past November 25th.  CiU and ERC have reached a set of accords to hold the self-determination referendum within two years.  This accord, pending the release of formal aspects Thursday, guarantees the installation of Mas as regional president with the support of ERC in the coming week.

The deal is basically done, but legal and political unknowns are rife. According the to roadmap agreed to by both parties, the referendum will be held in 2012.

The main roadblock in negotiations was that CiU, and especially UD (a faction) rejected a coalition accord which fixed the referendum date in concrete.  ERC, however, required solid commitments. Finally, they arrived at a compromise accord. To be held in late 2014, the referendum will coincide with the timing of the Scottish independence referendum, a key moment in the calendar of Catalan sovereigntist forces.

So now not only Scotland, but also Catalunya will be holding an independence referendum.  And the installation of PNV head Urkullu as regional president in the Basque Country with the support of HB means that it's not unimaginable that the we might see something similar there. The trifecta would be if the 2014 Belgian elections compel partition.

With the Scottish referendum, the EU has played coy, saying that an independent Scotland would be required to enter the common market through the established procedure.  Can Brussels hold their ground with the Catalans, and possibly Basques, joining the queue? And if Belgium is subject to partition.  How then does that work?

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 02:11:33 PM EST
It depends on how Germany feels about it, I guess.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 02:20:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was in Québec during the 1995 referendum which was decided by 0.1%

It depressed the economy for years previous and afterwards.

Businesses moved out because of the uncertainty.

by stevesim on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 02:21:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The first on out will set the precedence. Since their laws and everything already fits, the only issues should be votes in Council and Parliament (because those still are not decided by a formula) and if any existing member likes to veto the newly independent state. If it is an amicable divorce I don't see why any other member should throw in a veto, and the number of votes should not be that tricky since the EU has many smallish members so their spans should be fairly limited. Independetn Scotland with 5,25 million inhabitants would just about the same size as Slovenia and Finland with 7 votes in the Council and 13 MEPS. It is larger then Ireland with 6 and 13. So 7 and 13 it is.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 03:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Flanders, with 6.3 mn inhabitants, would be above Denmark and would probably be able to claim 8 Council votes and 14 MEPs.

Catalonia, with 7.5 mn inhabitants, would be between Bulgaria and Austria, and, like them, have 10 Council votes and 17 MEPs.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 03:35:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but in the case of Scotland, the main threat seems to be that they will be admitted as a new country, without the optouts (Euro, Schengen etc) that the UK currently has. This is irrelevant in all the other cases mentioned.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 03:58:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Scotland would have an opt-out from Schengen just like Ireland. A land border is just notpractical on either of the British isles.

As to the Euro, Sweden doesn't have an opt-out either: they just fail to meet the criteria for accession on purpose.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 09:32:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But won't Scotland have control over its immigration (isn't that part of independence?). And won't England want border controls anyway, if Scotland starts admitting too many people of the "wrong" kind?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 11:26:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Again, see Ireland.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 11:43:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Residents of Scotland will - like residents of Poland - be allowed under EU rules to work in England. Poor non-workers has no rights.

For general EU immigration policies there is Fortress Europe. None shall pass!

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 01:13:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I assume we're talking about new immigrants. The proposed Scottish constitution will allow people to retain both citizenships (subjecthoods?) so that they will be citizens of both Scotland and the UKSB (of course, the latter may have a different opinion about that....)
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 01:33:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, my point is that all residents (new or old) has freedom of movement (for work) all over the EU. In theory Scotland or Poland could use this to flood the EU with millions of new residents by opening their borders and quickly processing them for residency. In practise there is much co-operation to keep (brown) people out. So for England little changes.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 01:46:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's true, but since they wouldn't automatically accede, there would presumably be a period of a couple of years between independence and accession.

I have no clue what happens then.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt t gmail dotcom) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 03:59:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I checked the EFTA expansion of 1994-95, and it went like this:

1995 enlargement of the European Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On 30 March 1994, accession negotiations concluded with Austria, Sweden, Finland and Norway. Their accession treaties were signed on 25 June of that year. Each country held referendums on entry resulting on entry for all except Norway (its second failed referendum);

  • Austria - 66.6% in favour (June 12); application submitted in July 1989
  • Finland - 56.9% in favour (October 16); application submitted in March 1992 (separate referendum held in Åland)
  • Sweden - 52.8% in favour (November 13); application submitted in July 1991
  • Norway - 47.8% in favour (November 28); application submitted in December 1992

Austria, Finland and Sweden became EU members on 1 January 1995. Sweden held their elections to the European Parliament for its MEPs later that year on 17 September. The following year, Austria held its elections on 13 October and Finland on 20 October.

So 2-5 years in negotiations and about a year to making the refendums etc. But then a number of opt-outs was negotiated to find compromises between existing national law and EU law. And the referendums had to be lined up so that they would favor a yes.

In the case of break-out states minimal negotiations are needed and unless there is an strong opinion for leaving the EU I suspect there will not be referendums. So it should be able to handle it in a couple of months (negotiate, then ratify the treaty) which I suspect will be needed for a practical and amicable exit anyway. So if the will is there, a break-out country could hold a referendum and on a symbolic date a couple of months later leave and become a EU member.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 05:08:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It struck me that we do have a good modern example of the timeline for amicable break-ups of states.

Dissolution of Czechoslovakia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On 17 July, the Slovak parliament adopted the Declaration of independence of the Slovak nation. Six days later, Klaus and Meciar agreed to dissolve Czechoslovakia at a meeting in Bratislava. Czechoslovak president Václav Havel resigned rather than oversee the dissolution which he had opposed; in a September 1992 poll, only 37% of Slovaks and 36% of Czechs favoured dissolution.[2]

The goal of negotiations switched to achieving a peaceful division. On 13 November, the Federal Assembly passed Constitution Act 541 which settled the division of property between the Czech lands and Slovakia.[3] With Constitution Act 542, passed on 25 November, they agreed to the dissolution of Czechoslovakia as of 31 December 1992.[3]

So five and a half months from start to finish. If the existing state has accepted the procedure - as I believe is the case with Scotland - some ground-work may already be in place to give the voters better information before making the decision. But that demands a lot of good will.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 01:23:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If it is an amicable divorce I don't see why any other member should throw in a veto

That is the point. But Spain appears to have succeeded in hardening the stance of the Commission. A year or so ago, about Scotland, they were saying they didn't have a position on automatic accession of a seceded country, or even that Scotland would automatically accede. Now, after the Catalan controversy started, the Commission is saying a seceding country would be out of the EU altogether.

This is despite the fact that the entire acquis would already apply to any seceding country from the get-go.

If Spain allows Catalonia to join the EU, no other country would have a leg to stand on to block it. Conversely, if Spain vetoes Catalonia, the other Eu member states can't admit Catalonia by themselves.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 07:06:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How then does that work?

It doesn't. I think the crazies in Spain might start a civil war.


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 07:09:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As much as I already knew that, there's something about you saying that which gave me a knot in my stomach.  The kind that makes you feel physically ill. Shit. If we're damned to replay the 1930s, where do I sign up for the International Brigades?

The again, I know that an open Civil War is a possibility but a push.   Rajoy and the boys constructing a mega verson of GAL.  Something like the Semama Tragica and pistolerismo of the early 20th century.......  I fell sick again.....  

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 02:07:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If we're damned to replay the 1930s, where do I sign up for the International Brigades?

Don't. Get on the first boat out of Europe to Mexico, Brazil or Argentina...

The again, I know that an open Civil War is a possibility but a push.

Anyway, for shit to hit the fan somebody would first have to unilaterally declare independence and I'm not quite sure that's a sensible option in any case. You basically hope that the angry reaction of the state you declare independence from will cause a big enough disruption to mask the fact that you really don't have the trappings of a state.

The real question is what the crazies will do about the referendum. Anyone can hold a referendum, it's just not constitutionally valid unless the national parliament calls it, and you know the Parliament's composition out to 2015 is not conducive to a referendum.

Here's an interesting blog post by a reserve Lieutenant-General. It made headlines when it came out a few weeks ago.

I personally continue to think CiU (especially Unió, but even Mas) are not really interested in independence and are just opportunistically using sovereigntism to mask the bankruptcy of their 2 years of austerity policies (and the results of the 10-year bubble also in Catalonia). Catalonia applied for €5bn from Spain's regional bailout fund, and CatalunyaCaixa has been nationalised and will receive €10bn altogether.

However, the Spanish crazies are just now making noises about recentralising the educational system and intefering with long-standing Catalan language policy. The PP, as you know, thrives from nationalistic tensions. So they might end up pushing CiU to sincerely try for independence.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 04:24:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
However, the Spanish crazies are just now making noises about recentralising the educational system and intefering with long-standing Catalan language policy. The PP, as you know, thrives from nationalistic tensions. So they might end up pushing CiU to sincerely try for independence.

That and the ETA ceasefire means that the more hard line independence block has succeeded in splitting the nationalist vote. CiU depends on ERC, PNV on HB.  

The real question is what the crazies will do about the referendum. Anyone can hold a referendum, it's just not constitutionally valid unless the national parliament calls it, and you know the Parliament's composition out to 2015 is not conducive to a referendum.

True, but remember the threat the the PSOE government made about the Ibarretxe plan.  Do it, and the Spanish army will be sent in to occupy the region.

Asinine as that is, couldn't you see Rajoy doing that in Catalunya for political effect?  And once you have feet on the ground, it's important to remember that the Generalitat has the Mossos at its disposal, which means paramilitaries.  The potential for cock waving abounds.

Moreover, there are less than 100,000 active Spanish army, and over 15,000 Mossos. Put the two in close proximity with antagonistic bosses, and the potential for cock waving increases.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 05:04:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Asinine as that is, couldn't you see Rajoy doing that in Catalunya for political effect?  And once you have feet on the ground, it's important to remember that the Generalitat has the Mossos at its disposal, which means paramilitaries.  The potential for cock waving abounds.

La Vanguardia: Puig warns that the Mossos will "be at the service" of the Catalan Government if the referendum is forbidden (18/10/2012)

Puig is the Catalan Interior Councillor in charge of the regional police, the Mossos d'Esquadra. Under him, the Mossos have been involved in the most violent repression of the 15M and allied movements, starting with clashes around the Catalan Parliament to protest Mas' austerity back in June 2011. Recently, a woman lost an eye from rubber bullets fired by the Mossos.

Fascinating to see progressive Catalans forgetting how much they hate Puig in the face of the onslaught by the common enemy: the Spanish crazies.

FFS.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 05:26:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hostia.

As bad as things have become in Spain, I don't think that they've quite reached Greek levels in reference to the economic crisis.  But, the austerity fetish does seem to indicate that's the plan.  

Greece doesn't have the divisive regional politics, nor the quasi federal structure of Spain.  

Awesome. The knot is back. Thanks Miguel.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 05:34:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now you can diary this <grin>

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 06:44:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
True, but remember the threat the the PSOE government made about the Ibarretxe plan.  Do it, and the Spanish army will be sent in to occupy the region.

Another thing that the PSOE government did was to allow the Ibarretxe plan to be sent to the National Parliament by the Regional Rarliament for ratification, to criticise it in the debate and to defeat it in a vote. The PP opposition wanted the National Parliament to refuse to receive the document submitted to it by the Regional Parliament.

So the PSOE government stuck to the Constitution and Parliamentar procedure at all times, while the PP was advocating breaching the legislative rules of procedure.

Style matters, and as of right now Ultramontanism rules the day.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 07:02:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If we're damned to replay the 1930s, where do I sign up for the International Brigades?

We're not seeing 1930s'style political violence anywhere yet, except possibly in Greece. And recall that the Semana Trágica took place in 1909. A violent putdown of the 15M and allied movements might be similar to that, with no lasting destabilizing consequences for the state.

Anyway, you'll find this fun too: The SUP [police officers' union] believes the Government 'seeks one dead' as it denounces training resulting in injured policemen.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 04:55:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
time out from the deal, sorry i can't provide intelligent (or even bullshit) comment on any real issues. but tim leary's son posted this, it was different enough to post.

Probably i shoulda taked some time to mention my uncertainty about Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle.

Here (assuming you don't change the link by clicking.



"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 04:42:03 PM EST
I'm not uncertain that this is the best commercial i've ever seen in my life, which bears serious levels of social deconstructing. Merci Canal +

The life of a screenwriter:



"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 04:57:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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