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Thursday Open Thread

by afew Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 11:04:41 AM EST

Last orders, please!


Display:
Closing time tomorrow.

Use this final Open Thread with care and respect. Or do not go gentle into that good night.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 11:05:59 AM EST
People are making Mayan Apocalypse jokes like there's no tomorrow

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 11:37:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well I have a  government scheme meeting tomorrow morning. Is there much point in turning up, seeing as  the end of the world is due to happen 41 minutes after the start?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 12:16:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Whilst it might seem like a waste of your last 41 minutes on earth, it might be advisable to turn up, just to be on the safe side

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 12:19:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is it too soon to wonder whether a certain REM track should be banned across the whole internet tomorrow ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 11:38:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 11:58:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Gah !!! Foiled again

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 12:08:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]


"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 04:21:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...
"Down, down, down into the darkness of the grave
Gently they go, the beautiful, the tender, the kind;
Quietly they go, the intelligent, the witty, the brave.
I know. But I do not approve. And I am not resigned."

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 11:13:16 AM EST
The commentariat seem to have realised something sinister has happened. I hold little regard for Andrew Mitchell, even among Tories he seems to have been a  noticeably unpleasant creation, but if it is true that the police conspired to stitch him and get him sacked then we are in interesting times indeed.

Guardian - Martin Kettle - Is plebgate a product of the push for police reform?

f it is true, as friends of the former chief whip were arguing today, that he is the victim of "an absolute police stitch-up", then that is a very big deal, and it is not just Mitchell who is entitled to be angry. It is every democrat and every believer in the rule of law and the security of the state too. Mitchell's vindication, were it to occur and be conclusive, would necessarily imply one of the most devastating police scandals of modern times - and there are already plenty of contenders for that accolade.

We should be clear what we may be getting into here. Several tabloids this week greeted the arrest of a suspect in the Mitchell affair as a chilling witch-hunt against a whistleblower. It was, they argued, proof of the dark shadow that a Lex Leveson might cast across the work of our glorious unshackled press.

But the truth could be almost exactly the reverse. If an armed police officer entrusted with one of the greatest responsibilities in the state - guarding the government - conspired to bring down an elected politician, that is something that cannot be treated lightly. If it is not an act of high treason then it seems to me that it's not far off. And if Mitchell is telling the truth, then the whole episode shows not why Leveson is so dangerous but why Leveson was so needed and why the report should be supported. A lot at stake? I'll say there would be.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 11:47:29 AM EST
Independent - Owen Jones - Plebgate: If a minister is treated like this, what hope is there for black kids from Brixton?

For the average citizen, if it's your word against a police officer, you will almost always lose. In truth, that was the case with Mitchell, too, until CCTV footage emerged casting doubt on the police version of events. Such evidence would never be examined in other cases.

Perhaps, after this episode, politicians will be more open to scrutinising police behaviour. Consider, too, the recent exposure of the Hillsborough cover-up, and the false statements initially provided after the killings of Jean-Charles de Menezes and Ian Tomlinson.

A white privileged politician has just experienced a small slice of the frustration long felt in many of our communities. Perhaps now it will be a little bit more acceptable to stop automatically taking every police officer at their word.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 12:08:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the issue is best summarised here

Liberal conspiracy - Johnathan Kent - Why the `pleb-gate' affair should also worry the Left

Furthermore Crick's report contrasted a recording made by Mitchell of a meeting with Police Federation representatives with their account of the meeting. The comparison certainly seemed to suggest that the Police Federation account misrepresented the meeting in a way that put Mitchell in a very poor light.

When the contents of the police the report were leaked it wasn't to the Guardian or the Mirror, it was to The Sun. The Sun, already locked in a tussle with the political class, published; not too many questions asked. Together the police and News International took a major political scalp just when they most needed to. It served as a reminder to Downing Street that both could bite back.
[....]

No one in politics, left or right, should be anything but deeply disturbed at the possibility that part of the state's security apparatus is meddling in politics. It was bad enough that police officers and News International journalists apparently conspired to invade the privacy of victims of crime and people in public life alike.
[....]
The possibility that they're working to bring down our elected representatives is way more worrying.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 12:43:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting times indeed.

Although I fear that the Channel Four investigative reporter seemed entirely too keen on stitching up the guy who sent the email, rather than asking: "Who put this plot into motion?"

It seems unlikely to me that 2 Police Officers just decided to do this on their own.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 12:32:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No. He was too carefully targeted with an accusation that, against him in particular, was all too believable.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 12:33:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have to say it's remarkable how watching him say "I'm just not the kind of person who would use that word" it's really hard to believe him. He seems entirely that kind of person, to his very fingertips and mannerisms.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 12:36:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have seen evidence, citation needed, from his acquaintances, that make clear that plebs was a word he used frequently in a disparaging manner. I doubt if it is in his vocabulary now. It's the 'n' word of the British elite.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 12:52:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well a couple of small details that might interest people. The reporter on this story is the same reporter whos name is on the Sadams underpants story, just a coincidence.

Secondly at the time the first story came out, it was most advantageous for the government. It drew lots of attention away from the George Osbourne railfair fraud story which was just getting into gear, but rapidly became old news.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 01:37:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All too believable, and not disproved even if he was afterwards fitted up.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 02:26:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hold the front page : it"s raining in England!

Village evacuated as floods and heavy rains hit Britain | UK news | guardian.co.uk

Also in Hampshire, a father and daughter had to swim to safety after their Porsche was engulfed by water. The pair were stranded in a ford in the New Forest after the river Lymington rose rapidly, but they made it the shallows and were helped by a community support officer.

Trying to drive through a ford in a porsche? They might have had more luck doing the opposite. Alternative take : High correlation between porsche ownership and stupidity does not prove causality. But if there were a causal relationship, in which direction? Discuss.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 11:53:02 AM EST
I would like the community support officer to be John Cleese in full spate.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 12:01:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
eurogreen:
They might have had more luck doing the opposite.

ROFLMAO

very good...

anyone else watching putin getting questioned by journalists live on RT?
putin may be many things, but he is a leader, which we in europe lack, for better or worse.
some brave journalists. he's called out the USA roundly for their human rights hypocrisy, saying what no servile pol in yurp would say.

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 01:56:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, you know, he doesn't need to be servile...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 02:29:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
he doesn't perceive a need to be, maybe he just doesn't do servile.

considering the puerile provocations he gets, he keeps cool under pressure.

funny how obama can be too, though i don't agree with eirther of their policies in the main.

china's leaders seem fossilised.

europe just doesn't have any, just a bunch of empty suits spouting obsolete platitudes...

like flies in some cultural amber, emitting little squeaks of 'forward to the past' or just ...stuck.

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 03:05:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No time for a diary, but I've been mulling for a while that the Tax Avoidance by Starbucks, Amazon, Google et al. amounts to an exporting of tax revenues from the UK Treasury to the US Treasury.

(Assuming that the dividends are taxed when the profits work their way through to US shareholders...)

Of course, there's a pure evasion element as well, but I think this is a geopolitical effect that seems to suggest every country will become like Greece over time...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 12:35:45 PM EST
I don't think they are taxed effectively in any jurisdiction. Profits and losses are moved around to exploit the most advantageous situation possible.

But all they do is exploit laws deliberately created by our elites for their own purposes. If they weren't such greasy scumbags we wouldn't be in this mess

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 12:47:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For corporations, US tax is not 'due and payable' until the money is repatriated to a bank, etc., in the US.  It has been estimated $21 to $31 trillion is sitting in overseas accounts waiting since the last time we played this game corporation were allowed to bring the money back tax free.

Taxes are for little people.


Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 12:52:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
These overseas accounts are interesting to me, because (loanable funds fallacy alert!) it seems that those Cayman Island banks don't do any lending of any kind, and don't pay interest. So the money really is the equivalent of being tucked under a mattress. Which is to say, it seems like it has been removed from the economy altogether for this period.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 01:04:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Someone else will have to weigh in re: Cayman Islands.  Me know nothing.

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot
by ATinNM on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 01:56:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
maybe there is nothing... remember that pic i posted months ago where one small 1-2 bedroom house on a cayman islands street was the HQ for 1600 corporations?

what can seriously happen there?

seems like a puppet shop, who holds the strings? the government of the caymans must do well somehow out of it.

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 02:01:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Government of the Cayman Islands, effectively, collects overpriced rent on all those mailboxes. Now if only some of that money were used for the benefit of the local population... If only.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 02:29:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
before it became a tax haven, the Cayman Islands wanted to be annexed by Canada in order to boost its economy.
by stevesim on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 02:30:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ARGeezer:
The Government of the Cayman Islands, effectively, collects overpriced rent on all those mailboxes.

heh, whatever price it is, it'll be a deal!

and yes it seems like an economic sargasso sea, a stagnant place where elephants of value slowly expire.

no army, no police force, no garrison, no base, no ingots needed, just to defend some innocent insignificant(!) PO boxes in the middle of the ocean.

nothin' to see here...

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 02:53:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think it's Cayman Islands specific. There are a number of tax haven banks who are storing these overseas profits for companies waiting for a tax holiday (who will then repatriate them to the USA.)

None of these banks appear to do anything with the money. So it is maybe an answer to my ongoing question of "how does money become idle?" (because mainstream economists are always denying the possibility...)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 02:38:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mainstream economists deny a lot of things.  Reality being one.

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot
by ATinNM on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 02:50:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That does however depend on what movements of funds then follow. Do the numbers stay on the same account or do they transfer to other accounts that permit tax-free movement elsewhere? In any case, you're right that, in a supposedly globalising free-trade environment, huge sums are abstracted from the economies that are supposed to be trading, and held offshore in wealth shelters. In other words, free trade my arse.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 02:38:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The only major actor in the "tax business" I've ever known well was Oliver Stutchbury, who founded Save & Prosper. He had the entire UK tax laws of the time (early Seventies) in his toilets. He was, in his way, a biblical scholar.

He financed some of our movies - knowing them (which we didn't) to be excellent tax losses. I don't know exactly how he benefitted financially from our losses - but he did.

The biggest challenge to tax collection is the complex tax laws that have been built on endless amendments and special cases that compound the original inadequacies. The only doable solution, imho, is a simplified, no-deduction system such as the Tobin Tax. It would mean that possibly several hundred thousand tax advisory companies would be out of business. Lawyers would be cast out onto the streets. Corporate accountants would be destitute. It would be awful.

What's not to like?

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 03:24:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sven Triloqvist:
The biggest challenge to tax collection is the complex tax laws that have been built on endless amendments and special cases that compound the original inadequacies.

that reminds me of this i just read, sigh...

Beppe Grillo's Blog

The finance law for 2013 is called the Stability law It was written by madmen out in the community. Anyone reading it is at risk of mental insanity. Among the many possible examples, the start of point 11 of the article called "Finanziamento di esigenze indifferibili {Financing urgent needs}": "In order to finance interventions to assist categories of workers covered in articles 24, points 14 and 15, and the legal decree dated 06 December 2011, n, 201, converted with modifications, in the law dated 22 December 2011, n.214, 6. point 2-ter, of the legal decree dated 29 December 2011, n. 216, converted with modifications, in the law dated 24 February 2012, n. 14 and 22 of the legal decree dated 6 July 2012, n. 95, converted with modifications, in the law dated 7 August 2012, n. 135... ". Yesterday evening, the law was approved by the Senate's Budget Committee with the appropriate last minute modifications for friends, relatives, lobbies and the rest. The way the Text has been drafted in its typical Monti-obscurity, in its Kafka style, in the special "new-speak" that is typical of the buro-sauri, doesn't manage to make the legislative soup produced by Rigor Montis completely understandable. Something filters down, from the bits and pieces of evidence and it's possible to make out a few things. And the stuff that can be understood is astounding. Cuts to the Health System, article "Rationalization and reduction of spend in the health sector", point 2, reduction of 600 million for 2013 and 1,000 million euro starting from 2014. Cuts that are needed in order to provide finance for the bankrupt publishing sector, with an increase of 40 million in relation to the previous year, and the useless TAV in Val di Susa, with two billion and 200 million in 15 years. Funding for universities has gone up by just 100 million instead of the 400 million expected and in order to get savings they are even going to turn off the street lights, return to the dark ages, article "Reduction of spend by Local Authorities", point 25, subsection a, "Turning off street lighting or automatically reducing its brightness by using special equipment during all or some hours of darkness" as a favour to organised crime. The article that must not be ignored Financing urgent spending", point 2, subsection f, the "The Bank for the Development of the Caribbean has a Special Development Fund with 4,753,000 euro ..." Fundamental for the economic development of the country is the immediate call for tenders to create gaming halls to swell public finances. Less health, less education, more cement, more gambling den managers, more paid hacks. This is the finance law of the Statesman that makes us the envy of all the banks. See you in Parliament! Outside or inside it'll be a pleasure.
PS: The taxpaying citizens are those who pay for the finance law. They have the right to an understandable document, no longer than ten pages, with new spending and cuts and the reasoning for the decisions given in terms of the social and economic benefits of each measure. Too complicated for this technical government?

nice of monti to give millions to the caymans to 'develop', huh?

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 03:39:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How will turning off street lights help organized crime? Won't it be more likely to help unorganized crime?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Dec 21st, 2012 at 03:19:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, the TAV in Val di Susa (a.k.a. TGV Lyon/Turin) is arguably not so useless.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Dec 21st, 2012 at 03:49:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sven Triloqvist:

He financed some of our movies - knowing them (which we didn't) to be excellent tax losses. I don't know exactly how he benefitted financially from our losses - but he did.

Adam Curtis wrote something about this phenomena some time or another. It was a good piece, but then again they generally are.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 03:54:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My business partner (still!) was an independent derivatives dealer in the 80s who'd managed to negotiate very low interest, very high leverage and minimal brokers fees. He's a mathematical genius of sorts.

Any road, he patiently explained to me many times how he could (and did) make money whichever way the market was moving - as long as there was liquidity. It was fascinating - another world. I said then that, OK. You're a chess freak. It's a game. And I knew, for him, it wasn't the money as such. He pulled all his money out of the markets a few months before the Finnish crash and got into property.

We're still close friends. but somehow at opposite ends of the spectrum. He doesn't fully understand what I do, and vice versa. Somehow it works.

But today I'd say to him that "your games then are now other people's weapons."

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 04:25:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Damn it.

World's biggest patent troll saves Kodak from bankruptcy:

Intellectual Ventures has filed several lawsuits of its own in the past few years, and has also handed off patents to smaller patent-holding companies to use in litigation.

That's a roundabout way of saying that Kodak patents may well be popping up in future patent troll suits in the future. After all, somebody is going to have to get their $525 million back.

Intellectual Ventures is owned by Google, Apple, Facebook, Research in Motion, Amazon, Microsoft, Samsung, Adobe, Huawei Technologies, HTC, Fujifilm, and Shutterfly.  Since these companies pretty much define the high-tech consumer electronic business standby for monopolistic stagnation.  


Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 03:00:57 PM EST



"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 03:22:56 PM EST
The inventor, if I'm not mistaken, of cloud computing?

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 03:25:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is that a porch I see stuck in that fjord? Where is John Cleese?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 03:47:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hah! One of my favorites!

Some ten years ago, as I lay sick in bed for several weeks afflicted with West Nile Virus, I spent considerable time gazing upon a print of this very painting.

We just recently discovered John Constable was the painter. Since then we've run across more prints of his. He must have been very popular here in the mid-west in the late 19th century and early 20th century.

NVA, a viable option when the political process fails.

by NorthDakotaDemocrat (NorthDakotaDemocrat at gmail dot com) on Fri Dec 21st, 2012 at 01:12:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]



"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 03:35:02 PM EST
Ah - that'll be Europe after austerity then.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 04:06:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's this:

Commonly known as Reduction of the Surplus to Requirements pre-Labor Force Entrants.

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 04:15:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reduction of the Surplus to Requirements pre-Labor Force Entrants?

Sandy Hook?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 04:19:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
too soon?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 11:30:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 03:45:33 PM EST
It seems nowadays that the plutocratic lock is so entrenched they don't even have to hide it

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 04:16:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, in fact, the WaPo stuck it on page 56...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 04:20:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
WaPo management knows who amongst the oligarchs is entitled and who is not. They and the rest of 'The Fourth Estate' have signally failed in their self-appointed duty to be the watchdogs. They have willingly eaten the meat with the tranquilizers. It was very good meat and they really liked the tranquilizers.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 05:52:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Swenglish Sentence of the Day:

Kan jag byta till ett annat rum?

Meaning:  Can I (to) buy another (= different) rum?

Although endless variations on vodka and aquavit are widely available in Sweden the rum choices are quite limited.

Or so I gather.

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 03:49:11 PM EST
Everything's a bit rum in Sweden.

Paraphrasing the archetypal pith-helmetted explorer: "Its nice here, Caruthers. Too nice!"

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 04:00:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No no, we have lots of different rums. A couple in every apartment and even more then that in offices and hotels.

Here I wanted to put a clip from Utvandrarna, the filmatisation of Moberg's classic migration epic (from Sweden to the states). There is a lovely episode where a guy has spent the journey studying english from a book only for no one to understand his pronounciation when they arrive. Could have soemthing to do with his pronounciation being not English with a Swedish accent, but pure Swedish. Unfortunately no one has bothered to paste it on youtube. Lazy kids these days.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Dec 20th, 2012 at 05:04:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Economist
Yet secularism has not spared St Matthew's. The church is a south London landmark, a vast neo-classical monument with room for 1,800 worshippers, built in 1822 to commemorate the victory at Waterloo. Since the mid-1970s, however, when plunging congregations made it unaffordable, the church has operated from a small portion of the building. Some of the rest was leased out as a nightclub, "Mass", which became well-known for hosting bondage parties. "The walls aren't insulated so there was a lot of noise," recalls one parishioner. Now the nightclub has closed; some of the building is being turned into a pub.

It is unclear who were more representative of British society, the worshippers in England's established church or the sado-masochists next-door. Around 3% of English people attend an Anglican service at least once a month. Perhaps more significantly, according to the 2011 census, only 59% call themselves Christian, representing a drop of 13 points in a decade. By comparison, two in three young women, according to a poll by More! magazine, claim to have experimented with bondage or spanking. The concept of Christendom, a Christian realm that has endured since the time of Constantine the Great, is dying in Britain. In the most godless continent, it is one of the most secular countries.

The answer seems clear: They should bring back flagellation....
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Dec 21st, 2012 at 03:29:17 AM EST
But just as elsewhere, our elites remain as fixated on appeasing the gods as ever. The British House of lords has a fixed group of 25 Lords spiritual from the CofE plus the chief Rabbi and sundry other clerics.

The commons also has a hefty proportion of god botherers who regularly attempt to restrict abortion rights. Often justifying it with claims to scientific legitimacy straight from catholic propaganda.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Dec 21st, 2012 at 04:11:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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