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Thursday Open Thread

by dvx Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 11:55:32 AM EST

For your commentary amusement.


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The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt št gmail dotcom) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 01:02:15 PM EST
Sssssh!
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:00:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Anything that you say can be held against you!

I've been Mirandized.

by stevesim on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 01:30:57 PM EST
This is Baker Street - and you are in custardy.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:07:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
this is a roll reversal.
by stevesim on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:10:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That was a tart reply...


You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 03:17:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
just tried to get a rise out of you!
by stevesim on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 03:35:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How goes Independence Day?


Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot
by ATinNM on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:20:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Watching 'DCI Blake'. There was the option of seeing a bohemian band play at our local club (also album release), but in the end I was feeling cosy and stayed in.

I did manage to see a mesmerizing continuum of handshakes on the box, and briefly discussed the design of a Presidential handshaking machine with the Big K. Finnish Facebook is full of flags, Jean S and war veteran stories. As usual for this day, every year, Yle ran 'The Unknown Soldier'.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 03:15:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
1955 Edvin Laine original or Rauni Mollberg 1985 remake?

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot
by ATinNM on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 03:38:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I assume the original. Haven't watched on TV.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Dec 7th, 2012 at 03:28:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Cat, insect
Standing up.
That's what I learned about the matter from the Finn.

Some folks are upset because the war movie was moved from 2:00 pm to 5:00.
Many tanks on display, much saluting
Nice concert

About the castle party (my view) ...
People either like to dress up, hate to dress up, or dress up because it is necessary or required.
Everyone looks nice when they do dress up. Especially men in formal wear.
People who dress up know they look good (or better than they usually look) so they feel happy.
Everyone likes to be acknowledged. It may be the one thing we have in common with each other.
So this party is nice because the attendees know that when they arrive they will be acknowledged.
It appeared that there was quite a cross-section of the populace represented. Not just rich people.
Finnish novelist Sofi Oksanen really rocked her look, but she defined her style long ago.
President Halonen looked great (same outfit she's worn before, but it suits her well).
No real WOW factor in the fashions to report as far as I could see.

by sgr2 on Fri Dec 7th, 2012 at 01:27:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have an idea, and you know that can be dangerous.

What do you think of starting a petition that all Olympic Games from 2017 onwards have to be in Greece to help out the country that invented them?

by stevesim on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:29:26 PM EST
Did the 2000 olympics actually help Greece?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:32:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not according to the BBC:

The cost to Greece of hosting the 2004 Olympic Games came in at 9bn euros ($11.6bn; £6.3bn), double the original target, the government said.


Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot
by ATinNM on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:36:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
tha's because a lot of construction had to be done.  now that the venues exist, the costs will be much lower but not the revenues!!!
by stevesim on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:57:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True.

But not going to happen.  The IOC won't accept it.

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 03:04:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The IOC exists to travel the world and test-#@!@# various cities. They couldn't care less about "sports" or "the olympic ideal".

-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 04:44:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's not fair.  Who do you think they are -- FIFA?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 08:31:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think he's using "help" in the sense that the ECB uses it when discussing bailouts.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:39:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or in the sense Procrustes meant by 'let me help you fit in that bed'.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:47:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is there a difference?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:50:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
a) The 2000 Olympics did not help Greece.

b) In 2017, Greek economic problems will not be significant in 2017. Either because they have been resolved by that time, or because they have plunged Greece into civil war that overshadows any economic difficulty.

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:39:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Merkel recently reminded the world that she's up for reelection in 2017 when she said the crisis will take at least 5 years to resolve.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:46:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Osborne officially moving to 2016 as the magic year when everything turns into rainbows and marshmallows.
Post 2015 election. Three years ahead on damage control.
Now that's confidence.


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 04:47:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the 2004 Olympics, not 2000 Olympics.
by stevesim on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:57:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My bad.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 02:59:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Things are so bad Greece can't even afford the fee to enter Eurovision.
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 03:44:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That would actually make perfect sense. Therefore, it's never going to happen.
by asdf on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 11:51:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So, has St. Nikolaus shown up yet?
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 03:11:24 PM EST
He did last night, and we found our presents in the morning. My children believed in him very long and used to be very worried, if it wasn't too hot in the chimney (we have a fireplace, and we use it almost every night in winter). Even in the year after they caught the easter hare they did not conclude that St Nikolaus might be the same person.
by Katrin on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 03:37:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That interesting that he comes through the chimney to you. Where I live he used to come from the Black forest with his donkey and he brought the gifts with him or the "Rute" (according to the dictionary meaning - birch, rod,rood) if you were naughty during the year. However, the Rute usually was decorated with chocolates. But there were not gifts the next day.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 03:48:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Through the chimney or somehow through the keyhole or so. If you have a chimney, you put your shoe next to it, if not, you put it next to the front door. The rute is for the fans of black pedagogics, and I have heard of it when I was a child, but I have never found one in my shoe. Now it is soewhat out of fashion with the Nikolaus, apparently. It is most important that the shoe is clean. My children only cleaned the one shoe for the Nikolaus, though, and left the other one as it was. Perhaps I should have tried the stuff with the rute?
by Katrin on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 04:23:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know if the rute would have helped - but it sounds like you have smart children.

Actually here the St.Nikolaus is quite visible, I saw one last night at the way home from my classes, thats why I asked the question.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 7th, 2012 at 02:32:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's always good to hear that not all local or regional traditions have been levelled away by TV and commercial interest. Don't get me started on Rummelpott löpen.
by Katrin on Fri Dec 7th, 2012 at 04:05:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know what's the local tradition here for entering, but he is supposed to deploy the sweets for good children and the birch for bad children into boots placed into the window.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 04:25:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In spite of my parents' efforts to pretend otherwise, I was aware that Santa Klaus (on the night from 5 to 6 December), Little Jesus (on the evening of 24 December) and the Easter Bunny (on Easter Monday morning) are my parents from the earliest age I can remember such games (age five), but their acting was enough to create the special mood. I wonder how many other children whom parents think to be firm believers are similar.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 04:32:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My parents both insist that they ALWAYS told us, when asked if there really were a Santa Claus and Easter Bunny, etc., "no, they're just nice stories."  And they said that, nonetheless, we continued to believe in them until others of our peers also quit believing.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 04:58:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think there's a lesson about politics in here somewhere.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Dec 7th, 2012 at 03:31:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't remember ever believing in Jultomten (the St.Nikolaus/house elf merger we have up here (the porridge part is a traditional offering to the house elf)). But it was a fun game though. I remember one year when both parents were present as Jultomten arrived (he hands out gifts in person here) I was a bit perplexed, but more of "how did they do that?" then anythign else.

Don't really remember about my peer group, but I would guess I don't remember because my friends saw it the same way as I did.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Dec 9th, 2012 at 06:22:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When my children caught me they didn't draw the obvious conclusions, so I think they believed in the Easter bunny. From their angle in the window they had seen a hand hiding an easter egg, and it was a human hand. The arm was in my dressing gown. They talked about this arm for months and somehow concluded that it must have been me, but they weren't ready for it. They were unsure. They didn't conclude the Nikolaus was me, too. They only got that idea a one or two years later.

These stories fit the children's magical thinking, and my son used to do that for a long time, which doubtless influenced his little sister.  I remember that I was enlightened by my older sister when I was about 5, and that I immediately found her debunking the myths convincing.

by Katrin on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 05:07:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is Timo Pakkanen. (see picture at bottom of page. Text also in English)

I first met him in the 80s when his other job was head of marketing for the company that imported Mercedes, Audi and BMW - the transport choice of elves, obviously. We made a number of TV commercials and new car launches with him. He was and is, what might be called 'jovial'. He's been all over the world as Santa.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Dec 7th, 2012 at 03:43:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
@deficitowl

I was blown away tonight by the projects my students presented in my graduate macro class. WATCH this on #Eurozone http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL9YET2gg0k


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 04:01:29 PM EST

Great - that's how to present economics - "dismal science" ? - no way :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 05:48:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The "dismal"'s right. It's "science" where they patently prevaricate.

- xkcd

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 06:13:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As most of you may remember, Hungary is presently ruled by a right-populist government which has a super-majority in parliament and uses it to systematically demolish checks & balances and grab all branches of power beyond the current election cycle. Part of this push to shape everything in their own image was to give catholic-conservative and nationalist-nostalgic cultural warriors a free rein, resulting in the re-naming of several streets, places and buildings. However, I just witnessed a blow-back.

A few days ago, I got a letter from my city council announcing the plan to re-name my street and asking for my opinion. It was outrageous for multiple reasons:

  1. Is this what they have to spend time and money on in a recession?... (They certainly think so: they also wasted money on an ugly new church no one needs.)
  2. The letter gives the proposed new name of the street, but omits to justify why the person whose name it shall bear deserves it. Looking him up, he was some conservative Catholic priest in the first half of the 20th century.
  3. Regarding my opinion, does the letter give me the opportunity to send detailed comments? No. Or, does it announce a standard secret vote for all inhabitants? Again no. Instead, I shall indicate my approval or disapproval on a form on which I shall also give my full name and address. And I should trust them that I won't be blacklisted for voting No?...

I wanted to send the form back nevertheless, even if I am the only one in an old city street mostly inhabited by older people and with a strong right-wing voting history. Imagine my surprise when a Catholic-conservative neighbour turned up – gathering signatures against the street re-naming at his own initiative! By the evening, the majority of the inhabitants signed it.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Dec 6th, 2012 at 04:21:03 PM EST


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