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Counter Reformation?

by Frank Schnittger Tue Feb 21st, 2012 at 09:41:46 AM EST

Vatican row a storm in a teacup | Irish Examiner Tuesday, February 21, 2012

For the last time, can we please put an end to this nonsense about the Vatican embassy?

Our diplomatic relations with the Vatican have not been sundered. Our ambassador is merely resident in Dublin, as is the Papal Nuncio.

Neither has our embassy in Rome been closed. It is just that our former embassy to the Vatican, the Villa Spada, now houses our embassy to Italy.

The only reason our ambassador to the Vatican is now resident in Dublin is because the Vatican has a unilaterally imposed policy of not allowing ambassadors to Italy to be also accredited to the Vatican.

As a direct consequence of this, many countries accredit their ambassador in some other European country to the Vatican. We do not generally tell other countries who they can and can not accredit to Ireland as their ambassador.

Neither should we. Except in extreme circumstances.

If the Holy See would only return us this courtesy, we could accredit our ambassador to Italy to the Vatican as well, saving us the cost of two embassies in one city, and putting an end to this needless controversy.

Perhaps this is the "leaner" compromise referred to by Archbishop Diarmuid Martin before a liturgical reception for the new papal nuncio, Archbishop Charles J Brown last Sunday.

Frank Schnittger
Blessington
Co Wicklow


There has been something of a conservative Catholic backlash against the Irish Government's decision to close our embassy to the Vatican typified by Breda O'Brien's piece in the Irish Times:

Closure of Vatican embassy has wide-ranging implications - The Irish Times - Sat, Feb 18, 2012

Just as we ratchet down our relationship with the Vatican, the British step theirs up, writes BREDA O'BRIEN.

THE DEBATE about the closure of the embassy to the Holy See is fascinating. Rather quietly, a consensus has grown up that it was a bad decision. There are lots of reasons why, and Seán Donlon, former secretary general in the Department of Foreign Affairs, articulated some of them in the Irish Examiner, including the obvious one of influencing standards on child abuse.

I presume the "consensus" she is referring to consists of her friends and fellow Patrons of the Iona Institute a Catholic "think tank":The Iona Institute | About us

The Iona Institute promotes the place of marriage and religion in society. We defend the continued existence of publicly-funded denominational schools. We also promote freedom of conscience and religion.

The Iona Institute is headed by religious and social affairs commentator, David Quinn.


Quite why the Irish Government should seek the influence of the Vatican on our "standards on child abuse" is never articulated in the article. We are presumed to believe that the organisation which sheltered the abusers should have the right to advise us on how best to protect children in the future.

But then, as Breda also never tires of pointing out:
Sexual abuse would still exist without church - The Irish Times - Sat, Feb 11, 2012

In Ireland, we have a massive problem with sexual abuse. If the Catholic Church was outlawed in the morning, we would still have that problem.

It could be a huge changing point for our society if we could properly acknowledge, and begin to deal with, that fact.

Nobody, to my knowledge, has ever claimed that sexual abuse is limited to the Catholic Church or that the problem would disappear if the Catholic Church was outlawed. So why finish her otherwise good article on this spurious straw man argument?

In fairness, an argument can be made for maintaining a diplomatic presence close to the Vatican (The Irish Embassy to the Vatican never was located in the Vatican itself). This argument was recently made in a letter to the Irish Times by the distinguished retired diplomat Michael Lillis, who had been appointed to a UN Commission examining human rights in Cuba in 1988:
Our man at the Vatican - The Irish Times - Tue, Feb 21, 2012

Before embarking I visited the foreign ministries in Madrid, Bonn, London, Paris and Washington DC to try to learn from the respective experts as much as I could of the findings of their own embassies or third party representatives (eg Switzerland for the US) in Havana. I also visited the two "foreign ministries" in Rome, those of the Quirinale and the Vatican. I spoke also to the representatives in Geneva of the capitals I could not visit and to many others.

With one exception these sessions were a waste of time. In effect my interlocutors either officiously avoided committing their governments in any way and were uninformative or, as in the case of Madrid, were heavily propagandist in favour of the Cuban regime (reflecting the tendency of the then socialist government of Spain) or, as in the case of Washington DC, were propagandist on the other side.

The best sessions by far took place with Cardinals Casaroli and Silvestrini the two senior Vatican officials at that time. They had both perfectly understood the potential of and the limits on the role of the United Nations in its mission.

They were extraordinarily well-informed. They neither demonised nor in any sense minimised the grave problems that the regime in Havana presented to the church and its community in Cuba and the thrust of their briefing was positive in suggesting ways to explore practical and graduated improvements which might be made. They did not confine themselves to the direct interests of the Catholic Church but ranged over the whole field of human rights in its UN dimension. They did not direct me in my duty as an Irish Catholic (as curiously Fidel Castro, a theologian manque, tried strenuously to do in two private sessions I had with him during the mission). The depth of their knowledge of how the Cuban regime functioned and how the UN might be useful left all other foreign ministries looking either completely politicised or inadequate or frankly ignorant.

That diplomatic relations with the Vatican can be useful is also not in dispute. However Ireland maintains only 55 Embassies abroad accredited to 161 foreign Governments. Having two embassies in one city at a time of great economic stringency simply doesn't make sense, and those Catholic intellectuals who think that closing one is an attack on their faith had better think again. They are setting themselves up for an epic fail. It is time they and the Vatican climbed down from their high horses and accepted that there will only be one Irish embassy in Rome with an ambassador resident there accredited to the Vatican if and when the Vatican relents on its presumptuous and impertinent insistence that the Irish ambassador to the Vatican cannot also be accredited to Italy.

And yes, the Pope is also welcome to visit Ireland for the International Eucharistic Congress which takes place in Dublin in June if he so wishes. After all we had the Queen and President Obama visiting last year, and the visit of Chinese Vice President Xi Jinping has just concluded successfully - despite his Government's many human rights abuses...

Display:
Apparently, Vice President Xi Jinping's visit to Ireland is considered a great success in Government circles. Quite why Ireland was the only EU country on his itinerary (which also included the USA and Turkey) has not been very clear, although it may have something to do with the Irish Government's apparent failure to raise specific human rights abuse cases although human rights in general "where on the agenda".

Xi Jinping displayed a keen interest in Irish agriculture and had a new born calf named after him on a visit to an Irish farm in Clare. The farmer informed him that the Irish traceability regulations were so strict that he knew more about where the calf came from than he knew about his own children...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Feb 21st, 2012 at 10:01:29 AM EST
A whole new meaning to.."How many Divisions has the Pope?"

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Feb 21st, 2012 at 11:29:47 AM EST
As in how many "independent" think tanks support Vatican interests?

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Feb 21st, 2012 at 11:45:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Stalin was referring to military divisions: the divisions the Pope has now are rather more political......

"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Feb 21st, 2012 at 01:05:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Feb 21st, 2012 at 05:39:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As the anecdote on Cuba shows, the Vatican has perhaps the best secret services in the world. What other state has so many qualified agents on the ground in the most remote places?
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Feb 21st, 2012 at 12:54:47 PM EST
the Brits and their stepping up of relations with the Holy See all the while fair Ireland is logically consolidating its diplomatic presence in Rome, he should consider moving an island to the right.

What with the EU migration rules and all, it is much easier than it was before...

by redstar on Wed Feb 22nd, 2012 at 09:51:35 AM EST
Closing Vatican embassy 'a mistake' - The Irish Times - Thu, Feb 23, 2012
"While I believe that the change in status of the Embassy was a mistake and that it will in time be changed, the current polemic is distracting us from the real challenges of Church State relations and from the real crisis questions facing the Irish Church," he said.

Dr Martin said that, in the history of Ireland, Church and State have been intertwined "for the good and for the lesser good", adding that the two would be intertwined in Irish society for many years to come.

"Church and State are separate but not necessarily hostile realities. The challenge is to find a mature interaction which is neither that of being in bed together nor that of living as survivors of a hostile divorce, unable to converse," he said.

Mr Martin said that it was "very hard to underestimate how much the scandals regarding the sexual abuse of children and the manner in which it was dealt with by Church authorities has wounded the Church in Ireland".

"The fact that thousands of children were abused within the Church of Jesus Christ in Ireland is a scar that the Church will bear within it for generations to come. There is no way in which what happened to be consigned out of the way into the archives. The lessons of what happened and how it happened are a vital key to our looking forward to and building the future with hope."


Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Feb 23rd, 2012 at 05:04:03 PM EST
"for the good and for the lesser good"

For the Bible, Dr Martin version:

Genesis 2:9:

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and the lesser good.

Psalms 23:4

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear not the lesser good: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

John 8:11:

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and commit the lesser good no more.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 02:23:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
God's PR advisor must have been on a day off when those passages in the Bible were written...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 05:15:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, England was tight with the RC church for quite some time, but when the break came, in the 1530s under Henry VIII, it was pretty dramatic. That is impossible in Ireland, I take it?
by asdf on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 03:05:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It did involve going back and forth a bit, execution of people of the wrong faith, and an attempt to blow up Parliament. Are you suggesting something similar for Ireland?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 03:16:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We don't have a king with the balls...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 04:29:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When my Irish and Irish-American friends start getting all "United Ireland" with me, I, churl that I am, raise two points:

  1. Ireland couldn't get united when there was nothing but Irish there.  Clontarf was the last good shot, and there were Irish on both sides for the usual reasons.

  2. Do you think the Republic's "special relationship" with the Vatican might give the Anglicans and Presbyterians in the North pause about the benignity of union?
by rifek on Sun Feb 26th, 2012 at 07:23:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All nationalists perpetrate a myth of "Nationhood" implying their is one "pre-existant" people or natural agglomeration of communities united with one purpose. In reality virtually all national entities have been born of blood, often a great deal, and of an enforced unity between disparate groups. Ireland is no different in this regard, although the Clontarf era disunity was little more than rival clans and chieftains launching raiding parties against each others cattle and women and making alliances to suit their purpose at a particular point in time...

Paisley and his ilk have always claimed that "Home rule is Rome rule" even though their was a genuinely republican ethos to much of the independence movement and the state established thereby.  However a creeping Catholicism meant that there was a great deal of truth to the charge even though many could not see it - seeing only a natural affinity between Catholicism and Nationalism with no ant-Protestant intent. Even today there are very few protestants in the Irish Civil service with the requirement to be able to speak Irish being a natural barrier to entry for most.

One of the few benefits of the child abuse imbroglio has been to expose an unhealthily close relationship between the Catholic Church and state to the benefit of neither. Those few Catholic elements in the Iona institute and elsewhere who feel offended by the closure of the embassy feel it as almost a disestablishment of their Church in Ireland, and are blissfully aware of how offensive their presumption of a close relationship between Church and state is to non-Catholics and all who still abhor how the Catholic Church handled the child abuse scandals - right up to a couple of years ago.

Diamuid Martin is one of the few leaders to realise that things can never be the same again, and that if the Pope does visit in June (unlikely in my view) it will be on different terms to the last visit by John Paul II.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Feb 27th, 2012 at 06:58:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is no amount of denial people are incapable of when it comes to the dark depths of religion.  My best friend is Irish-American Catholic (although of his beliefs, he refers to himself as a Spinozan Catholic).  His mother is college educated and a retired school teacher, but she can't get enough of the Pope, regularly runs off to Rome, and won't listen to anything about the child abuse scandals.  It isn't just a matter of the shills at the Iona Institute playing spin doctor.  There are millions of laity like my friend's mother, and they're the real obstacle.
by rifek on Mon Feb 27th, 2012 at 08:55:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Remarkably, this seems to be more of a problem in the USA rather than in Ireland. Most devout Irish Catholics I know are frankly disgusted at their own hierarchy and none to impressed with the Vatican. They maintain their religious observance despite these misgivings and I hear no great clamour for the Pope to visit`- unless it is to apologise and start a new chapter on new terms.

A Chicagoan Bishop has just apparently snubbed the Irish prime minister over the Vatican embassy closure.  This may be good US Catholic politics, but in Ireland it just generates a big yawn.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Feb 27th, 2012 at 11:04:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Frank Schnittger:
Even today there are very few protestants in the Irish Civil service with the requirement to be able to speak Irish being a natural barrier to entry for most.

Natural barrier? That's an odd way of putting it. Do they go to different schools where Gaelic is not an option?

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Feb 27th, 2012 at 11:46:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Officially Irish is compulsory in all schools, but because the language has been more or less hijacked by Catholic Nationalists v. few prods take it seriously enough to gain sufficient proficiency for Civil Service access.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Feb 27th, 2012 at 12:36:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lack of Vatican co-operation over child sex abuse led to closure of embassy - The Irish Times - Fri, Feb 24, 2012
PROTAGONISTS IN the row over the closure of Ireland's embassy to the Holy See have included some Fine Gael backbenchers not heard from before. Certainly they were silent following the Cloyne report last July, when no one produced a rosary beads at a parliamentary party meeting either.

<snip>-------

Then there are the usual suspects, lay voices who make a living from defending the institutional church when it is safe to do so, when outrage is settling after the Cloyne report.

It was the same after the Ferns, Ryan and Murphy reports. Their immediate reaction is practised horror. Then, with time, they're back to their slithering ways, diluting truth, minimising the wreckage, playing it all down.

A particular focus for this Fine Gael/Fianna Fáil/usual suspects "alliance" is Eamon Gilmore, who announced the closure of the embassy in November. He has even been described as "an arrogant atheist".

<snip>-------

None of this nonsense has anything to do with religion. The central issue over Ireland and the Vatican has been Rome's lack of co-operation with two inquiries set up by this State to investigate criminality - the systematic enabling and cover-up by Catholic Church authorities of the rape of Irish children over decades.

Their determination to hide the truth, through lies and mental reservation, rested on what was understood to be required in Rome. Then in May 2001 the prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now Pope) contacted every Catholic bishop in the world, including then archbishop of Dublin Desmond Connell and then bishop of Cloyne John Magee.

He directed them to send all clerical child sex abuse allegations "with a semblance of truth" to him. On foot of this and prior Vatican decisions the Murphy commission, which investigated abuse in Dublin, wrote to the congregation in September 2006 seeking co-operation. It got none.

Instead the Vatican complained to Dublin that the commission had not used proper channels, ie it had not gone through the Department of Foreign Affairs. As should have been known in Rome the Murphy commission could not use the Irish State's "proper channels" as it was also investigating this State's handling of allegations.

So, in February 2007 the commission wrote to the papal nuncio in Dublin asking for relevant documents. There was no reply. In early 2009 it again wrote to the nuncio, enclosing a draft of its report for comment. There was no reply.

During its later investigations into Cloyne diocese it also wrote to the nuncio. This time he responded to say he was "unable to assist". That was how the Holy See treated two inquiries set up by our government to investigate the gravest of abuses of thousands of Irish children by priests. It ignored them. This had nothing to do with Catholicism but centrally involved inter-state relations. Because of it, and whatever may happen in the future, the decision to close the Irish embassy to the Holy See was appropriate and proportionate, regardless of the costs argument.



Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Feb 23rd, 2012 at 08:11:34 PM EST
I've been trying (key word: trying) to get through to the Israeli Embassy in Rome about my certificate of lack of criminal record. The phone menu tells you which key to press for the Embassy to the Italy or to the Vatican. Is this allowed?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 04:01:53 AM EST
AFAIK the Vatican insists on separately accredited ambassadors and physical embassy buildings. I don't know if their diplomatic doctrine covers phone systems or cloud computing...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 05:14:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
St Peter's the guy who deals with cloud computing.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 05:27:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't it covered by Isidore of Seville?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 07:37:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's for the heavenly wiki:

Patron saint of the internet - Telegraph

Isidore's Etymologies, published in 20 books after his death, was an encyclopedia of all human knowledge, glossed with his own derivations of the technical terms relevant to the topic in hand. Derivations apart, it was lifted from sources almost entirely at second or third hand (the Romans had been writing encyclopedias since the 2nd century BC), none of it checked, and much of it unconditional eyewash - the internet, in other words, to a T.

St Pete deals with the customer database.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 07:46:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Any chance you could get a sneak preview or insert/delete afew names?

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 10:54:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Unfortunately the Mormons managed to get the PW.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 12:48:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I always thought only dead people could vote for Romney...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 12:52:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Too late. Dead Mormons are now Jews. Colbert just circumcised them by proxy.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 02:48:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Israeli Embassy to the Holy See: Via Michele Mercati, 12

Israel Embassy to Italy: Via Michele Mercati, 14

That's how they do it....

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 05:29:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And what, pray, is in Via Michele Mercati, 13?

Mossad - to spy on the other two?

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 05:56:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That would be on the opposite side of the street, possibly not even opposite 12 and 14.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 06:03:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Google maps claims it's opposite, but Street View doesn't cover that block.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Feb 24th, 2012 at 06:08:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In your article "Closing Vatican embassy 'a mistake' - The Irish Times - Thu, Feb 23, 2012" , Archbishop Diarmuid Martin is quoted as saying that, in the history of Ireland, Church and State have been intertwined "for the good and for the lesser good", adding that the two will be intertwined in Irish society for many years to come.

The more usual formulation of that phrase, in the bible and elsewhere, is "for good or evil". Could that rephrasing be an unconscious echo of the attitude of "hear no evil" see no evil" which characterised the attitude of both Church and State to the rampant and institutionalised abuse of children?

Until we can force ourselves to recognise that there was much that was evil in the interwined history of Church and state in Ireland, our future relations between Church and State will forever be condemned as being at best for the lesser good.

It is time we moved beyond the banalities of public relations parlance and diplomatic speak and called a spade a spade: The collusion of the Church in the cover-up of child abuse and the protection of abusers must be condemned for the evil that it so manifestly was.

Insofar as this became intertwined in the relations between Church and State, there is no "lesser good" about it. If we are, ever, to reopen a separate embassy to the Vatican it can only be on the basis of a Vatican act of contrition and repentance for very real acts of evil.

Bishops such as Cardinal Francis George of Chicago who is reputedly snubbing our Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, at a  Irish Fellowship Club St. Patrick Day dinner because of the closure of the Embassy are welcome to stay away. Cardinal George's recent comparison of Gay Rights movement to the Ku Klux Klan already marks him out as a progenitor of hate speak we can better do without.

The suggestion by your correspondent, Breda O'Brien, (Closure of Vatican embassy has wide-ranging implications, Saturday, February 18, 2012) that the closure of the embassy is obviously a mistake because it  deprives us of the Vatican's influence on our standards on child abuse should be treated with the derision it deserves.

Is there no end to the denial?


Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Feb 27th, 2012 at 07:13:31 PM EST
In your article "Closing Vatican embassy 'a mistake' - The Irish Times - Thu, Feb 23, 2012" , Archbishop Diarmuid Martin is quoted as saying that, in the history of Ireland, Church and State have been intertwined "for the good and for the lesser good", adding that the two will be intertwined in Irish society for many years to come.

The more usual formulation of that phrase, in the bible and elsewhere, is "for good or evil". Could that rephrasing be an unconscious echo of the attitude of "hear no evil" see no evil" which characterised the attitude of both Church and State to the rampant and institutionalised abuse of children?

Until we can force ourselves to recognise that there was much that was evil in the interwined history of Church and state in Ireland, our future relations between Church and State will forever be condemned as being at best for the lesser good.

It is time we moved beyond the banalities of public relations parlance and diplomatic speak and called a spade a spade: The collusion of the Church in the cover-up of child abuse and the protection of abusers must be condemned for the evil that it so manifestly was.

Insofar as this became intertwined in the relations between Church and State, there is no "lesser good" about it. If we are, ever, to reopen a separate embassy to the Vatican it can only be on the basis of a Vatican act of contrition and repentance for very real acts of evil.

Bishops such as Cardinal Francis George of Chicago who is reputedly snubbing our Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, at a  Irish Fellowship Club St. Patrick Day dinner because of the closure of the Embassy are welcome to stay away. Cardinal George's recent comparison of Gay Rights movement to the Ku Klux Klan already marks him out as a progenitor of hate speak we can better do without.

The suggestion by your correspondent, Breda O'Brien, (Closure of Vatican embassy has wide-ranging implications
Saturday, February 18, 2012) that the closure of the embassy is obviously a mistake because it  deprives us of the Vatican's influence on our standards on child abuse should be treated with the derision it deserves.

Ms. O'Brien ends her piece with a most extraordinary straw man argument: "In Ireland, we have a massive problem with sexual abuse. If the Catholic Church was outlawed in the morning, we would still have that problem. It could be a huge changing point for our society if we could properly acknowledge, and begin to deal with, that fact."

Who on earth has ever claimed that sexual abuse is limited to the Catholic Church? And why would pointing out that sexual abuse also occurs outside the Church reduce its culpability in covering up the abuse?

Is there no end to the denial, evasion, misdirection and dissimulation?

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Feb 28th, 2012 at 04:53:28 AM EST


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