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Sarkozy : Danse Macabre

by afew Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 03:16:49 AM EST

Not that there was ever much doubt. Nicolas Sarkozy was elected in 2007 thanks to posturing as the xenophobic hard man of the moment, siphoning part of the Front National's electorate and winning with the support of the over-65s. He promised to clean up the cités (sink estates, housing projects) with a pressure hose. His administration and its mouthpieces proceeded to continue with the talk and the gesticulation, stigmatising youth, immigrants, and Muslims, which alienated part of centrist opinion while being insufficient to guarantee the loyalty of the extreme right. French contributors to ET have said this again and again: every time Sarko pandered to that electorate, he was working for the Front National.

Now it's payback time. He is forced to run to the right to have any chance of winning, and so has raised the xenophobia and anti-Muslim bidding (halal, Schengen, etc), the effect of which keeps him out of the centre where a good proportion of voters are not scared of Hollande. He has never been more frantic in his jumping from one lead to another (from the far right to ludicrous attempts to curry favour in the centre by letting it be known he would consider François Bayrou as Prime Minister, to the silly talk slapped down by Germany about how growth should be part of the ECB's remit) and in dramatising the stakes: the end of the world as we know it if Hollande wins; channeling John-Paul II with the repeated injunction "Do not be afraid" at the mass rally on Sunday... Twitching, gesticulating, in a genuine danse macabre... Because he's going to lose.

UPDATE 18 April : the latest poll (CSA) gives Hollande 29% Sarkozy 24% in Round One, 58-42 in Round Two.


From six months out, when polling on the second round indicated Hollande 60%, Sarkozy 40%, it was obvious he needed a huge drive to make up the lost ground. For a time, after the Toulouse shootings, the polls gave him a slight lead over Hollande in Round One. The curves have now crossed again, see the latest week's polling here (even Ifop! which has consistently polled more to the right than the other pollsters). As for the second round, the lowest the gap became for a short time was 6 points in Hollande's favour, and it is now trending wider again, at 10 or 11 points, well beyond the error margin.

It is pointed out that low turnout (possibly <70%) favours Sarko because the older people always vote. But the polls are based on those who say they are sure to vote, and a big swing from that is unlikely. So Sarkozy's chances now repose on a massive fail by all the polling institutes, or a deus ex machina of the Strauss-Kahn variety (unlikely with Hollande) or the Mohamed Merah variety (who knows?). In other words, his chances are excessively slim - he just doesn't have time to win back all that ground.

What one can hope for is that the trend continues and that Sarkozy, the political gambits he has played, and the monolithic rightwing party he created, suffer a debilitating defeat. One can also reasonably hope that François Hollande will be a better president of France than Sarkozy has been. This is a reasonable expectation on the institutional score, where Sarkozy has accelerated the drift towards centralised personal power, and where Hollande is likely to pull in the contrary direction. In which case, the choice of Prime Minister under Hollande will be of greater importance than under Sarkozy. The oracles tend to predict Martine Aubry for PM, especially in the case of a clear victory of the left ie Hollande wins by a comfortable margin and Mélenchon gets a good score. Less interventionism from the Elysée, an energetic Prime Minister more to the left than the president, pressure from an organised left - this is not a desperately bad perspective.

As to what will happen with regard to Europe, the euro, the Physcal Compacte of Leechynge and Blood-Lettynge, to what extent Hollande will fight for renegotiation is uncertain. The threat he can use is refusal or delay on ratification, but on the austerity side they can point a big finger of blame for precipitating the end of the euro and of Europe. A new president is likely to fight shy of this psychodrama (though if I'm wrong and he fights, he'll show the kind of statesmanship we need). But the situation is not static. Rule-based austerity can't and won't work. The government bonds crisis is with us again (because of the impossible deficit-reduction demands placed on Spain). Facts on the ground will stimulate more criticism (that the media will be less and less able to ignore). It will doubtless not be indifferent that the government of France should have a different attitude to that of Merkel's outgoing poodle.

The other dynamic aspect is the political situation in France. For reasons of new constituency layout, (see article in Le Monde), the PS is unlikely to get a majority in the legislative elections to follow the presidential, but will need to compose with smaller groups on the left, including EELV but also the sovereignists of MRC (Chevènement) and perhaps the Front de Gauche. Given that not all Socialists are centrists either, the potential is there for pressure on the government, relayed by protests, union action, and general civil society movements.

In that context, it's hard to see how TINA can hold out as a narrative. The media will have to shift to the blame game, but at least it'll be more of an open fight.

At least, that's my optimistic take. There are, of course, less optimistic ones. I'll leave them to the less optimistic among us.

Display:
you can stick a fork in him...

The true question is whether FH will be a French Zapatero or will he manage to somehow branch out of TINA; too early to tell...

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Tue Apr 17th, 2012 at 04:49:28 PM EST
What will FH do when he's ambushed by the markets?

The main difference with ZP is that Hollande comes into office in the middle of the crisis so he knows what he needs to be dealing with. But, will he be complacent? Who are his advisors, what advice will they give him and will he heed it?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 17th, 2012 at 04:53:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's never quite clear to me who "the markets" are and what they want. On the one hand we hear they're happy with austerity, on the other that they can see that it's counterproductive (case of Spain, for example).

What is there about Hollande that would make the markets want to attack?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Apr 17th, 2012 at 05:20:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't he questioning austerity and reform? He must be brought to heel before the ECB.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 17th, 2012 at 05:22:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is what "teh markets" think?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 01:00:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See below.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 02:43:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Eurointelligence (e-mail) cites an FT article I can't get to:

The FT has picked up on the steady rise in French 10-year spreads (see also our table below),  which this morning stood at 1.363%, as investors are becoming nervous about the French elections, and the prospects that Francois Hollande might win and implement his programme. The article makes the point that investors have been so fixated on Spain that they have taken their eyes off the ball in France, where the deficit has come in at 5.2% last year. The article quotes one well-known economist who says that if Hollande does not immediately focus on the deficit, the bond vigilantes are likely to cross the border from Spain to France. Interestingly, the article refers to a survey of fund managers, a narrow majority of whom expect Nicolas Sarkozy to win (we suspect some of them must be confused by the dual-round voting system, and do not understand that a first-round lead does not automatically translate into a victory).

So "fund managers" are ignorant dummies, who knew? I'm also trying to track down where I recently read that extra-European investors have moved completely away from the Eurozone bond market because unstable, risky, "unreadable". Pimco and Blackrock were cited as saying their clients didn't want to touch Eurozone debt any more. So again, my question is, who buys Eurozone government bonds?

Also: not that I'm denying the danger, but the French spread also has to be seen together with the Bund rate, which is down to 1.6nn%. (That, in itself, is a sign of the return of the crisis, I agree). The actual rise in French 10-years is not that great. The rate has been doodling around 3% for a long time.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 03:05:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He is a socialist, and that alone is enough at this point.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Apr 17th, 2012 at 08:20:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is what "teh markets" think? (bis)
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 01:01:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
FWIIW, for 'teh markets' see my comments about Mary Douglass' How Institutions Think and Bela Fleck here.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 02:15:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not really questioning how institutions can be said to think. I'm asking who are the actors on the European bonds markets today, and what do they think?

As I've pointed out, opposing interpretations tell us the markets react favourably to reinforced austerity but also that the markets shy away from it because it increases the risk a country will remain deeply indebted and may default.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 02:42:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The market is in an unstable state. The lack of a consensus and the lack of clear medium term perspectives lead to volatility. There's also a strong liquidity preference and a flight to safety. So the volatility acts on an underlying trend to divest from sovereign bonds (except for bunds, presumably).

The European Central Bank is the only entity that could stabilize the bond markets but it refuses to do so. And, given its political position, market volatility and upwards yield pressure works to further its economic policy agenda and make it more politically powerful.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 04:30:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
All true and well said.

But I am still trying to understand why your first reaction on this thread was to suppose that the markets were going to attack France if Hollande was elected.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 06:47:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because he will oppose standing ECB and EU Commission and Council policy and the customary way to bring uppity governments into line has been to tolerate or exacerbate a panic.

That there will be some sort of market panic is a given since the markets overreact to everything.

My point is that market noise will be spun as an "attack" and lead to a policy panic, unless Hollande is made of a different paste from everyone else involved in this crisis at high levels.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 06:57:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So in fact the institutions of the EU would be behind this, on purely political (even party-political) grounds. Which is clearer.

I have no idea what stuff Hollande is made of (though see below, for a statement to the German press that he didn't need to make for electoral campaign reasons). I don't think he's improvising, though, and he does have people with him like Fabius and Sapin who have experience. Centre-left, of course (though not Third-Way). The scenario I sketch out above would see them pushed further left by events and opinion. It may or may not work out like that.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 07:36:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The institutions of the EU would abet or enccourage it, and benefit from it. But I wouldn't say they would be behind it. It's going to happen because such is the market dynamics at this point in time. The Shock Doctrinnaires in the institutions of the EU will find it extremely convenient.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 08:20:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If it is as certain to happen as that, (and after all it has been said publicly, by Sarko hisself and Fillon), then it's fair to expect that Hollande has done some serious thinking about how to weather the storm by now. That's no guarantee his contingency plans will work, of course.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 09:48:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because all the serious people have been warning that that is what they're going to do.

Of course, a good chunk of the market will be planning to make a profit off the people launching the attack, so the outcome could be interesting.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 07:01:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's never quite clear to me who "the markets" are and what they want.

A good rule of thumb is that The MarketsTM are equal parts idiots, gangsters and economic hitmen.

The problem is that right now the idiots are drifting hither and yon, and the gangsters and economic hit men disagree. The former want a functional enough society to pay them their beef. The latter wanting to create failed states, because creating failed states is what economic hit men do.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 04:18:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And we have economic hit men as central bankers, too. As well as idiots as economic policymakers.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 04:26:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
JakeS:
The MarketsTM are equal parts idiots, gangsters and economic hitmen.

This is an appreciation (that I may well agree with), but what institutions do they represent? What kind of funds, from where? What banks? How much buying is done (these days) by banks of the issuing country, how much by banks of neighbouring or other Eurozone countries, etc? Where and how can one approach an answer to these questions?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 05:27:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At any given instant The Markets are the sum of their individual parts. It is when you try to go from instant to instant that this analysis breaks down, as the motivational factors can be so profoundly different and the feedback loops so complex as to defy analysis. As the greybeard acoustitian said: "You might not be able to solve the equations (for the motions and intensities of sound in a room) but the room can." But in the case of The Markets only Steve Keen, to date, has produced even simplified equations that might, to the first order, approximate the behavior of The Market. This is not to say that a detailed knowledge of the elements and past behavior of The Markets would not give a player an advantage over others - as with George Soros.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 11:30:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A good rule of thumb is that The MarketsTM are equal parts idiots, gangsters and economic hitmen.

"You're dealing with a lot of silly people in the marketplace; it's like a great big casino and everyone else is boozing. If you can stick with Pepsi, you should be okay."

- Warren Buffett

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 09:39:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree.  Sarko's done.  It's pretty much always returned to that near-60/40 split, and Sarko can't seem to break out of it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 06:11:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What happens if France becomes the focus of the financial crisis the day after Hollande wins? When does the new president take office, and what ability to act does a new president have in a crisis?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 17th, 2012 at 04:54:28 PM EST
That's what Sarkozy is threatening FH with. I think it likely FH has some thoughts on the matter. He is supported by some heterodox economists (see Nous, économistes, soutenons Hollande. Which is of course no guarantee he will know what to do in the event of a storm. Sarko would, of course -- run to Nurse Angela.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Apr 17th, 2012 at 05:01:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, as long as there isn't a bond auction soon, FH doesn't need to care about a market panic.

But he would need to say so publicly and forcefully.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Apr 17th, 2012 at 05:03:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Apr 17th, 2012 at 05:17:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He is supported by some heterodox economists (see Nous, économistes, soutenons Hollande

Should we be paying attention to who supports him or to who advises him?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 06:21:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The advisors are in that list.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 06:46:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, dear
La croissance des dettes publiques rend indispensable l'assainissement des finances publiques. L'objectif de revenir à l'équilibre budgétaire à la fin du quinquennat constitue un cadre exigeant mais crédible. La grande réforme fiscale annoncée par François Hollande devra certes être précisée et son calendrier accéléré. Mais le cap fixé est le bon, avec une réorientation de la politique fiscale dans le sens d'une plus grande justice sociale et d'une plus grande efficacité économique. Il faut mettre un terme à la sous-taxation du capital et des rentes, qui conduit non seulement à l'aggravation des inégalités, mais aussi aux excès spéculatifs à l'origine de la crise financière.

...

En fixant une norme d'évolution des dépenses publiques strictement inférieure à celle du PIB, François Hollande montre qu'il veut un Etat efficace et soucieux des deniers publics. Mais il tourne le dos aussi à la politique menée depuis 2007 qui réduit la modernisation de l'Etat à une simple équation comptable : le non-renouvellement d'un fonctionnaire sur deux. Cinq ans plus tard, nos administrations sont désorganisées, nos fonctionnaires démobilisés et la qualité des services publics dégradée... Il est temps de mettre un terme à des pratiques budgétaires qui n'ont de cesse d'entamer la légitimité de l'action publique. Restaurer notre crédibilité financière, ce n'est pas simplement jouer sur des paramètres financiers, c'est redonner à l'Etat le sens de sa mission et de ses responsabilités.

Austerity, yes, but not like this?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 12:05:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, Hollande has campaigned "centrist" and "serious". That has certainly pissed me off. But what chance would you give him of winning without it?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 12:20:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So, TINA?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 12:20:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why? A political leader is to be tied down by her/is campaign positions? Neither Hollande nor Sarkozy were ever going to really keep to their debt reduction programmes.

The point of what I said in the diary body was that the situation is not static.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 03:09:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hollande has actually preempted that to some extent by saying that he's ready for Moody's downgrading France the day after he's elected, forcing the agency to say that no date had been set, and making it less likely that such a downgrade will happen very soon after the election.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Apr 17th, 2012 at 05:42:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am very pleased to see that the mechanics of these "market forces" are being discussed.  The public seems to be aware of what the "markets" are doing and don't fail to see the connection to politics and ideology.  The best scenario is for Moody's or someone to do a downgrade and for the French to collectively say "so what."

That is how you break the back of the financial terrorists and begin to have freedom to make your own choices.  Melenchon's success (and Mountebourg's in the primary) have to do with this open discussion of what is happening.  Imagine that - giving the electorate some credit for not being idiots has paid off.

by paving on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 01:19:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It depends how much leverage the franch have over the germans and bundesbank. One could dream about a unified french led coalition against the germans (but of course, this is just daydreaming). However, without the french nothing will happen.
by kjr63 on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 09:19:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you remember this?
In the previous hour upstairs at the summit, Sarkozy had thrown a wobbly. "It was really a drama," said an experienced European diplomat. "A very abrupt end to a summit - because Sarkozy said he had had enough and really forced Merkel to face her responsibility."

A European Commission official added: "He was shouting and bawling. The Germans were being very difficult, and not only the Germans. It was a big fight between Sarkozy and Merkel."

...

According to senior Spanish government officials quoted by Spain's El Pais, Sarkozy called Merkel's bluff on what, 48 hours later, turned into a massive financial package that has rewritten the way the single currency functions and changed the European Union in fundamental ways that may take years to play out.

...

"Sarkozy went as far as banging his fist on the table and threatening to leave the euro," one unnamed Zapatero colleague told the paper. "That obliged Angel Merkel to bend and reach an agreement."

The French had Spain, Italy, Portugal and the European Commission lined up behind them. On the other side stood Germany, ranged alongside the Dutch, the Austrians and the Finns, all quietly hoping Merkel would prevail.



guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 09:31:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have a job believing this, other than Sarkozy losing his temper, which is possible. He consistently went along with Merkel's wishes, no doubt because he thought (mistakenly) that Germany would give France special treatment in return and he would acquire elder-statesman status and re-electability.

Now, if what we're saying is that, whatever happens, Germany will remain inflexible and will impose its doctrine, then there's not much to discuss further, beyond what smoking crater will be what is left of "Europe" in a couple of years' time.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 09:42:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ask
At least, that's my optimistic take. There are, of course, less optimistic ones. I'll leave them to the less optimistic among us.
and ye shall receive.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 09:49:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Has not much helped Greece. I don't think these are serious disagreements. French elites like everywhere else, "socialists" included, are deeply neoclassical parties.
by kjr63 on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 11:05:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The point is, if that's the kind of standing up to Merkel that one can expect from Hollande (and that was the extent of what we got from Zapatero)...

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 11:08:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hollande is neither Sarkozy nor Zapatero, so it's not only conditional, it's a kind of guilt by association point.

I don't know what Hollande will do. It may well be that there are limits to what any head of government can do (within the euro) when the Budget Minister is saying "we can't get through this" and the EU is saying "we can 'help' as long as you do as you're told".

But, with countries the size of Spain, Italy, and France in the line of fire, there will necessarily be more protest, necessarily more hearing for voices saying that German monetarism via the EU institutions and the markets is forcing one country after another into bankruptcy the better to oblige them to carry out severe public and social retrenchments. At some point TINA will be called into question and battle will be joined. Better Hollande, with significant pressure from his left, at the head of France at that moment than Sarkozy, imo.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 12:08:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Better Hollande, with significant pressure from his left, at the head of France at that moment than Sarkozy, imo.

That's not under question. But this leaves it all open:

As to what will happen with regard to Europe, the euro, the Physcal Compacte of Leechynge and Blood-Lettynge, to what extent Hollande will fight for renegotiation is uncertain. The threat he can use is refusal or delay on ratification, but on the austerity side they can point a big finger of blame for precipitating the end of the euro and of Europe. A new president is likely to fight shy of this psychodrama (though if I'm wrong and he fights, he'll show the kind of statesmanship we need). But the situation is not static. Rule-based austerity can't and won't work. The government bonds crisis is with us again (because of the impossible deficit-reduction demands placed on Spain). Facts on the ground will stimulate more criticism (that the media will be less and less able to ignore). It will doubtless not be indifferent that the government of France should have a different attitude to that of Merkel's outgoing poodle.
And, to be honest, by this point I've learned to not expect too much from Social Democrats.

Anyway, that (apart from your own cue) is why my first reaction on this thread was to suppose that the markets were going to attack France if Hollande was elected. I'm not going to debate the pre-election polls or the fact that generally Hollande will be a better president than Sarkozy, for France and Europe. But, will he be a good enough president?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 12:16:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good enough, I don't know. Where, and how many statesmanlike leaders (whether soc-dem or conservative, at this point it's courage and conviction that matter) Europe may be able to count on, is an unknown. Whether Hollande will show courage and conviction is also unknown.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 12:25:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You think Merkel lacks courage and (at least) conviction?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 12:38:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
She lacks a conviction. Several in fact.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 01:09:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't actually care what she's made of, though she seems to be a tough cookie. It may also be easier to show courage and conviction when you're head of a country that is Number One bully on the block. That's why our countries' governments, the people, political and union movements, need to show courage and conviction.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 03:00:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That means austerity. Less government is always better government for neoclassists. "The left" may for populist reasons say something different before elections, but after the elections their actions come from the "heart." We are talking about deeply institutionalised behaviour and beliefs.
by kjr63 on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 11:13:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Neoclassicals are perfectly happy with big government as long as it is in defense of the hierarchy.
by rootless2 on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 11:40:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. They like it as a weapon of class war.
by kjr63 on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 07:37:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A number of figures on the right (tendency Chirac) or having served as ministers under Sarkozy have recently announced their intention to vote Hollande:

Chirac's daughter Claude and her husband (former secretary-general of the Elysée); Chirac's speechwriter Jean-Luc Lebarré; his communications director Laurent Glépin and social affairs advisor Hugues Renson (both seen at Hollande's rally last Sunday); former ministers under Chirac Corinne Lepage (Environment) and Jean-Jacques Aillagon (Culture); and Chirac himself (only joking, of course...)

Ministers under Sarkozy: Martin Hirsch (Solidarity) and Fadela Amara (Cities).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 01:45:27 AM EST
"For reasons of new constituency layout, the PS is unlikely to get a majority in the legislative elections to follow the presidential, but will need to compose with smaller groups on the left, including EELV but also the sovereignists of MRC (Chevènement) and perhaps the Front de Gauche."

A major thing I want Hollande and his (hopefully...) majority to do is reintroduce proportionality in the elections.
Then, yes, PS will be unlikely to have a direct majority, but UMP will never have one. At the moment it takes an extraordinary turn of events for UMP not to have one. Despite being disliked by a majority.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 02:54:11 AM EST
One of the reasons why I hope this election will do as much damage to the UMP as possible.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 03:07:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I stopped being naïve about this, two or three electoral cycles ago. It's been a cast-iron part of the negotiated contract between PS and Verts since the early nineties... how did that work out?

I honestly think that the PS's promises to the Greens on this might have had some chance of having effect this time... (vestigial naivety perhaps) but the surge of the Front de Gauche has eliminated that possibility altogether.

Just to summarise the macro-situation : since the Chirac-Jospin pact of 2000 (shades of Molotov-Ribbentrop) to revise the Constitution, followed by the historic betrayal of the Republic by Jospin in December 2000 (inversion of the electoral calendar, putting the presidential election before the parliamentary election), it's clear that the PS is committed to a Republican vs Democrat model, with a single party on each side of the notional left/right divide.

The only chance of changing the electoral system in favour of proportionality in the next legislature is if the PS doesn't have an absolute majority in its own right -- and I disagree with Le Monde on this, I think the Presidential -> Legislative anti-democratic trap will function again, and give Hollande a free hand.

The only hope of avoiding this is if the Front de Gauche runs candidates against the PS everywhere, and beats them in the first round in a significant number of seats; resulting in a minority PS/Greens government which relies on the FDG for its parliamentary majority. In this scenario, we'll see if the FDG has dreams of hegemony (in which case they will be tempted to stay with the current electoral set-up) or would be content with settling in for the long term (in which case they would be well-advised to insist on some proportionality).

(rant over, for the moment...)

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 03:55:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"It's been a cast-iron part of the negotiated contract between PS and Verts since the early nineties... how did that work out?"

When exactly did the left hold the reins of power (I don't mean mere cohabitation) since then?

Anyway, if we keep the system as it is, it's not just a two party system, it's a two party system with a huge chronic advantage to the right. Whereas PS can notice that they hold almost all the regions -the one election to be proportional!

We'll see what happens -but if nothing is done to fix the institutions, Mélenchon will just grow stronger. After all, he is the one most clearly advocating changing them.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 10:19:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a mere legislative change (the PS did it in 1986, to save themselves from wipeout, it was quickly reversed by the right) and would have been quite feasible during the cohabitation periods.

My point is that for the PS, hegemony over the left is at least as important as actually holding power. If you don't believe me, perhaps you haven't had occasion to negotiate with them at a local level?

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 10:48:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Eurointelligence this morning cites an interview given by Hollande to Handelsblatt:

Hollande positions himself as Europe's Anti-Merkel

In an interview with Handelsblatt, Hollande positions himself as the politician who will break Angela Merkel's dominance of the European political scene. He reiterated his announcement not to sign the fiscal pact, if it is not amended with measures in favour of growth and employment. Also Hollande insisted that economic policies needed to be better coordinated in Europe. ,,All EU countries, even Germany, are suffering from a lack of economic dynamism. There is no common initiative for economic revitalization because we don't coordinate ourselves", he explained. The Socialist candidate also announced that he wanted to discuss with Merkel ,,how the European Central Bank can more strongly intervene in order to restrain the speculation against state finances". Hollande reiterated that he had no plans to introduce the debt brake into the French constitution on the grounds that the constitution already requires balanced public finances. The candidate also underlined that he was going to implement his plans to raise taxes for millionaires to 75% and to reduce tax breaks for wealthy French by €40bn. However, Hollande said that the EU needed ,,the Franco-German couple in this deep crisis", and his first foreign trip would therefore be to Berlin.

Since he is now moving to put things in place ready for a 99.9% certain victory, this is a significant statement of a firm attitude.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 03:15:30 AM EST
Sounds very Obamaish. We'll see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 07:33:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama's America has, despite screaming opposition, pursued an expansionary economic policy. Which is why US economy is growing and EU is collapsing.
by rootless2 on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 11:42:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The people in charge in Europe are the screaming opposition.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 11:58:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At least, that's my optimistic take. There are, of course, less optimistic ones. I'll leave them to the less optimistic among us.

and

Sounds very Obamaish. We'll see.

Do you remember 2008 and all the possible dream scenarios played out in the heads of many progressives? Curbing the national security state, strong economic stimulus while taking apart the zombie banks, and all the other wishful projections?

Now it's the year of the next US election and what do we have? a country that is seeing the entrenchment of a hitherto unknown sedimentary bedding of unemployment. A right-wing that has somehow turned a political jiu jitsu by promising more of the same. A slowly declining empire.

Hollande will muddle through like the rest of them which doesn't have to be a bad thing. But the hope of him raising the 'Coalition To Turn Around the European Story' will be disappointed. The best I can hope for is for him to push through (somehow) his domestic policies. Will he and his PM prove to be politically adept enough to do that? Hmm. "I'm not dangerous." he said to the London financiers. Well if you wanna turn the ship around you have to be dangerous. Lyndon Johnson was probably one of the last to get that.

by epochepoque on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 03:36:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Those dream sequences were a product of the ideological and methodological failure of American "progressivism". Power structures do not usually evaporate overnight. One can only expect Hollande to operate within the political constellations of Europe, not to make magical revolutions. Nobody smart, on the verge of power would want to excite the anger/fear of London financiers. Hollande will not create a workers state, but he will break the ideological and power stranglehold of the neocons in Europe - and he will give the Left Coalition some room to grow.

As for Lyndon Johnson, he sacrificed the Great Society to buy support from the war industry and created a tragedy.

by rootless2 on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 03:53:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I truly wish Europe well but fear the worst. I think we're all over the edge, waiting for the crash and what the destruction looks like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 04:19:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
to me, the underlying problem of Europe is that they do not have the military force to retain the income they receive from their colonization experience and do not even understand that they depend on that income.
by rootless2 on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 05:41:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's an interesting conclusion.

Want to develop the analysis a little?

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 at 01:37:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
EU gets an enormous economic boost as a legacy from military colonialism - e.g. consider why BP and Royal Dutch Shell dominate reserves in former colonies, or why European companies have such world markets. As a close observer of a French telecom company that has rapidly been crushed by Chinese competition, I have been struck by what happens when there are competing sources of capital (China, Venezuela, Brazil etc) available and no military capability to hold onto advantage.  This is a lesson Spain is learning in Argentina this week as the reconqista is rolled back.
by rootless2 on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 at 11:56:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But was not that military edge lost quite some time ago?

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 at 02:50:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not really. Spain is able to strip mine Somali waters, France has intervened in half a dozen African countries over the last 10 years, arms sales to proxy governments lets the natives do the shooting, the IMF and world bank act as the polite ambassadors of the combined military forces of the "west" ...

My contention is that the economic fruits of colonial looting can survive for quite some time on the inertia of economic structure and government - but that time is running out.

by rootless2 on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 at 07:11:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, that is not in dispute.

What I am saying is that I'm not clear on how Europe needs any of that, to such an extent that it going away would create a serious crisis.

The world changes. Sometimes it changes in your favour, sometimes it changes in someone else's favour. To say that "Europe's problem" is that the world is changing in someone else's favour is to give "Europe's problem" an air of inevitability that it does not necessarily deserve.

That is, is the problem that Europe fundamentally cannot deal with this reality and remain a comfortable place to live, or is it merely that Europe is currently politically unwilling to deal with reality? And in the latter case, is Europe's problem really that the world is changing? It would seem to me that in that case Europe's problem is that it has an obsolete political structure.

This is a crucial point, because it is the difference between operational and political constraints - that is, between having to change the world vs. only having to change your mind. For all the difficulty in effecting political change, it is a great deal easier than changing the laws of nature.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 04:19:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not clear to me that the vestiges of colonial privilege are of any great advantage. (One indication is that Germany has no such economic heritage.)

Shell, BP and Total are profitable companies, but they no longer impose leonine contracts on the former colonies, they operate at market prices, more or less. Strip mining of the seas is open to anyone with a factory ship; the biggest hit is possibly in the armaments industry, but I guess we'll just have to bite that bullet.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 04:48:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not clear to me that the vestiges of colonial privilege are of any great advantage. (One indication is that Germany has no such economic heritage.)

Greece would argue to the contrary.

Flippant counters aside, Germany has been benefiting from first the British and then the American imperial order, because they were inside it but big and strong enough (and had enough white people) that they were not reduced to a colony.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 04:54:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Me and my friends steal all your belongings. Then our children hire your children to work for pathetic wages. Of course my children are not benefiting from my theft, just engaging in commerce.
by rootless2 on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 09:25:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
John Stuart Mill:
The social arrangements of modern Europe commenced from a distribution of property which was the result, not of just partition, or acquisition by industry, but of conquest and violence: and notwithstanding what industry has been doing for many centuries to modify the work of force, the system still retains many and large traces of its origin. The laws of property have never yet conformed to the principles on which the justification of private property rests. They have made property of things which never ought to be property, and absolute property where only a qualified property ought to exist. They have not held the balance fairly between human beings, but have heaped impediments upon some, to give advantage to others; they have purposely fostered inequalities, and prevented all from starting fair in the race.


guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 09:31:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
great quote - which work is it from?
by rootless2 on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 09:51:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Principles of Political Economy, which I diaried a while ago.

That quote is from the same paragraph that contains "the principle of private property has never had a fair trial in any country".

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 10:06:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nice diary.

Here's an online source

http://www.econlib.org/library/Mill/mlP14.html

by rootless2 on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 10:50:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Mill:
Private property, in every defence made of it, is supposed to mean, the guarantee to individuals of the fruits of their own labour and abstinence.

Indeed.

by kjr63 on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 04:13:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Europe needs that advantage to continue having a high standard of living with the kind of economic/political organization now in place. Clearly that's not an optimal organization for the third world, the people of europe, or the environment. But I don' see much recognition of the level of change that would be needed to compensate for all that going away.
by rootless2 on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 08:16:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
rootless2:
But I don' see much recognition of the level of change that would be needed to compensate for all that going away.

or indeed the recognition of the effects of all the cheap immigrant labour taking these right wing goons seriously and all going home...

to my semi-educated view, it seems factual that many of the great concentrations of wealth in europe, be it in the royal houses, banking giants like rotschilds, uber-industrialists like the krupps etc were all aided enormously by the conquest and occupation of the third world, be it for resources, and then captive markets, (the english/indian cotton, for example).

the influx of gold from the iberian colonies in central.south america may have had disequilibrating, inflationary effects on european economies, but the wealth was arriving, and fortunes were made, then invested wisely on the hubbert upswing to create the fiction that 20% returns were the norm for cautious investors. if fiction perseveres long enough it becomes as near to fact as makes no difference.

it becomes an axiom, and only those with long term historical memories can see the pattern of past bubble/busts, and thus through the illusion.

capitalism did spread a lot of wealth downwards to a burgeoning, and increasingly well-educated middle class, forming a new elite of the cunning, rather than the blue-blooded. this is the base for randian celebrations of the driving force behind the growth of the last two centuries of industrial economies.

but now the elite has formed itself above the clouds of toil and care again, and once again is believing in its own myth of divine selection and rights. onceagain it is stealing not just from the poor, (the middle class is totally cool with that), but from the middle class itself. blind greed has taken over...

the poor have few tools to organise and affect macro events, but it's a different story with and educated, disaffected middle class who have put up with a lot of feeling inferior to their 'masters' anyway, and now feel betrayed by the unwritten pact between the two rich classes, that they would do the upper class 1% shitwork, (the kind that you do from a desk, an HQ, a parliament, civil service position), in return for being able to look down on the dalits who really do the shitwork of going down mines, working sweatshops, infantrypersons in wars with no honour and the like.

europe was a metaphorical middle class between the fabled riches of the american empire in flush, and the wretched hordes of foxconn asia, and now as the orient's wealth waxes, and america's wanes, we still want that gig, understandably.

the only possible hope for us to deserve, let alone retain that semi-privileged position would be to power up the alternative energy tech, (in which we are already world leaders, and ramp that sucker all the way up, a thousand or more times what it is now, while we still can).

it's a faint, but hitherto undying hope, indeed it is a very thin thread to find our way out of a very dark labyrinth. of course there will be much buggy whip collateral damage, but whichever course is taken that'll be the case, the faster we come to grips with this reality the brighter our future will be.

the alternative might be the horse and cart for us, in which case the buggy whip makers will thrive likely as well as bureaucrats and bankers...

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 12:20:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem with pension funds is probably the very idea of pension funds.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 12:21:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
rootless2:

My contention is that the economic fruits of colonial looting can survive for quite some time on the inertia of economic structure and government - but that time is running out.

I would place the break to real decline at de-colonisation (with a half-century long plateau phase before that). Yes, the former colonial powers still put up fights, and the US took over much of the structures, but the world is clearly (but slowly) changing.

I would however argue that the US faces the same problem and probably more so. Europe is being free-riders (like the neocons complained about). But being free-riders on the colonial system appears from the historical experience of Europe not to be a bad deal (Germany being a prime example).

I would also argue that the de-colonization era showed that the west no longer holds the kind of military and technological edge that allowed the establishment of the colonial system in the first place. And despite neocon fantasies, modern weapons has not changed that, as Iraq and Afghanistan has showed.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 05:44:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It has nothing at all to do with the lack of a military or technological edge, and everything to do with lacking the guts to behave like some of our asshole forefathers. Genocide and conquest just doesn't feel ok to Europeans anymore, not even when it's done to brown people. Blame Stalin and Hitler.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 07:59:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe you are taking European marketing too seriously.
by rootless2 on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 08:17:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Useful reading, even if not exactly the thing I was refering to.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 08:33:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Pinker's book is powered by a very silly view of history, in my as always humble opinion.

The 20th Century was a spectacularly violent century - declaring victory seems a trifle premature.

What I think is correct is that we have both pre-packaged meat that one can eat without thinking of slaughterhouses and pre-packaged poor people extracted wealth that one can consume without thinking about secret police and mass shootings.

by rootless2 on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 08:37:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It was far less violent than certain other periods, especially on a per capita basis. World war II ranks a pretty weak six when we look at the bloodiest wars on a per capita basis. Worst is the An Lushan rebelllion of 755-763, which killed one out of every seven people on the planet.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat Apr 21st, 2012 at 07:15:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but it's hardly established fact.

And the 60million or so who perished in WWII are not diminished by noting a larger world population at the time.

by rootless2 on Sat Apr 21st, 2012 at 12:23:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think this is a silly debate. For instance, on what basis can we claim that the 100 years' war or the 30 years' war were more or less traumatic than WWII for the people involved? Or, to what extent are the Napoleonic Wars (from Portugal to Russia and all the way south to Egypt, and lasting 15 years) not a "zeroth world war"?

In that sense, the 30 years' war ushered in the "Westphalian" system of international relations and is far more important in its systemic implications than even WWII since the international system that emerged form WWI (UN bodies, Bretton Woods, NATO) was never considered as superseding the Westphalian system but only in the last decade or so people have started talking about post-Westphalia. This means the 30 years' war is a watershed event on a scale of 350 to 400 years, which WWII was not. As fas as traumatizing Central Europe, it was on a par with WWII as well, with a much higher per-capita mortality rate and lasting 5 times longer.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Apr 21st, 2012 at 05:58:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but it's Pinker's silly argument. He wants to show that aggregate human violence is decreasing which actually may be true but would need a much better argument.

In any case, even if aggregate violence were decreasing, the evidence of EU humanism and scruples is hard to find.

by rootless2 on Sat Apr 21st, 2012 at 06:54:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Complex systems have lulls. Diary tomorrow.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Apr 21st, 2012 at 06:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Looking at the conflicts that forced decolonisation, I see no lack of guts to be assholes. I see technology transfer and - perhaps of equal importance - cultural transfer progressing to a point where the local leaders could defeat their overlords.

Yes, nowadays genocide is not popular but the colonial empires were not lost in the 21st century.

For an example of present guilt and post-war brutality

For there is something peculiarly chilling about the way colonial officials behaved, most notoriously but not only in Kenya, within a decade of the liberation of the concentration camps and the return of thousands of emaciated British prisoners of war from the Pacific. One courageous judge in Nairobi explicitly drew the parallel: Kenya's Belsen, he called one camp.

The uprising by a secret sect, the Mau Mau - impoverished Kikuyu demanding the return of their fertile lands - led to the deaths of maybe 20,000 men and women, many after torture and internment. Thousands more died in the violence that tore apart Kikuyu families on opposing sides of the dispute.

With the tacit consent of ministers at Westminster, a British administration in colonial Kenya chose to behave as if Africans had no human rights. Rattled by a handful of murderous attacks on planters, they tried to face down the rebels using the empire's default setting of brutality. Castration, sodomy, rape and beatings were everyday weapons in its unremitting defence of the rights of the white settlers.

Can you point me to a post-war conflict in any of the colonial empires where the empire folded because they did not like to be assholes anymore?

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 03:09:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A swedish kind of death:
Can you point me to a post-war conflict in any of the colonial empires where the empire folded because they did not like to be assholes anymore?

Let me see: Madagascar, no, Indochina, no, Algeria, no.

Now we can ask ourselves why De Gaulle's Fifth Republic, established in 1958, decide to organize referendum in pretty much all the remaining colonies which led to independence in the early 1960s: apparently the French leadership had lost appetite for retaining (most of) what was left of the Empire but whether this was because they didn't like to be A-holes anymore is unclear to me.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Sat Apr 21st, 2012 at 04:56:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can you point to any single post-war conflict where a former colonial power removed all restraints and did all they could to win, like they used to do?

All those three conflicts you mention are conflicts where the French didn't do everything they could to win: not because they couldn't, but because they didn't have the political will to be brutal enough. Which is, of course, a good thing.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat Apr 21st, 2012 at 07:23:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What the colonial powers used to do was send a relatively minor force that crushed all opposition. There was no threath of the homeland being invaded, so doing all they could to win was never really on the table. What do you mean that France could have done to win either of these conflicts?

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Sat Apr 21st, 2012 at 08:19:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sending conscripts in Indochina for example, as was done in Algeria (where indeed the perception for many French people was that the homeland was threatened...)

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sat Apr 21st, 2012 at 09:23:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, north Algeria was part of the French homeland, so they were right even if the Moslem inhabitants might have seen if differently. But I guess there was not an idea of the FLN actually invading Metropolitan France, was there?

Anyway, that gives us a metric. So conscripts was not used in Indochina after wwII. Were they used before wwII? Otherwise wwII did not change anything in that respect.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 at 03:58:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What would Genghiz Khan can do? Hama Rules. Nuke everyone.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 at 05:51:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and lastly through a hogshead of real fire.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 at 03:03:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So they nuke everybody, then what happens to access to markets and resources (and their officials and colonisers on the ground)? Compared to what happens if they cut a deal with the revolutionaries?

I'll add that Gandhi (educated in London) saw one of his objectives as making India unprofitable for Britain to keep, that is part of why he pursued such goals as circumventing the salt tax and producing cloth in India.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Apr 22nd, 2012 at 03:38:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So they nuke everybody, then what happens to access to markets and resources (and their officials and colonisers on the ground)?

You get a colony like Canada, Australia or the US, empty of problematic people but full of resources.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 06:37:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But to use that you need surplus population to re-populate with. And in the post-wwII era the european countries had already ran past the drastic expansion of population phase of the demographic transition. Kris i befolkningsfrågan (Population crisis, famous Swedish book form the 30ies arguing far-reaching measures to stop the fall in number of births) and all that.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 07:46:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As you might remember, the measures suggested in Kris i befolkningsfrågan actually led to radicaly increased nativity. Furthermore, having a large population just seems like such a bother. Few people, lots of natural resources, what's not to like? Well sure, it might be a bit hard to defend your resources from greedy populous nations who want to take your wealth, but that can be managed with conscription to provide the sufficient manpower.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 10:47:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now you're thinking in terms of the national interest. That's the wrong way to think about colonial adventures.

The interest being served is that of the private actors who get to set up shop in the colonies. The national interest is served only incidentally, if at all. And it is not in their interest to have to rely on scarce domestic manpower for exploiting untapped resources.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Apr 27th, 2012 at 12:33:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The main lesson from the European colonization experience is that colonization is a tough, dirty, expensive and not very profitable venture. Much better to buy local despots and let the natives police themselves while giving our companies access to their markets and resources.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 07:55:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is a myth that is convenient to believe but not correct. To suppose that the rape of Congo had nothing to do with the coincident massive growth of wealth in Belgium or that France did not and does not continue to profit from its power over francaphone africa seems counter-factual to me. And, of course, the other nations in EU participate.

That's why I say Europeans have not come to terms with the machinery of their own prosperity.

by rootless2 on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 08:25:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Belgian Congo is a very special case and very unlike many other colonies, with a massive "harvesting"/pillaging/genocide until the resources (the natives) were spent, with zero or very small investment required.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 08:34:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So your contention is that when the UK destroyed the Indian textile industry and turned India into a consumer of UK cloths, there was no advantage for German dye makers or Swedish steel exporters. And the vast capital accumulations of UK banks had no effect on european industrialization.  When the UK machine gunned Iraqis from the air and then assisted in overthrowing the Mosadeq government in Iran to secure cheap oil, it did not benefit German chemical factories, Dutch refiners, or Italian auto manufacturers. When the IMF forced South Africa to keep paying on the debts the Apartheid regime accumulated, it did not benefit French banks or German arms exporters?  Africa became an exporter of raw materials and a consumer of manufactured goods oly because of the hard work and inventiveness of European workers compared to the lazy ignorance of Africans?

Amazing.
 

by rootless2 on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 09:39:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Furthermore, the theory does not hold water. If control of Francophone Africa is the main or even a major source of wealth (rather than prestige) for France, France should be a lot richer than eg Germany or Finland, which it isn't. If we want a colonial dimension to our economic history, it must be one which can explain why non-colonial nations got as rich as the colonial ones. Access to markets and resources explain this, pillaging does not.

The wealth of Europe has, for the far greatest fraction, been a result of the hard toil of European workers, inventors and entrepenurs, with a liberal helping of cheap fossil fuels.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 08:40:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Absolutely. In the same way the wealth of the descendents of Southern slaveholders has nothing to do with that long ago slavery which, in any case, was barely profitable. And all over the world, the descendents of successful pillagers are just, by coincidence, hard working inventive types.
by rootless2 on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 09:28:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Starvid:
If we want a colonial dimension to our economic history, it must be one which can explain why non-colonial nations got as rich as the colonial ones. Access to markets and resources explain this, pillaging does not.

Yes, access provided by the colonial powers to the freeriders. To colonise is great, to freeride is greater.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 03:21:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To develop this a bit, not only does the freerider not have to take the costs of pillage - like veterans with mental and physical problems or a political order tilted towards military solutions. Building up an industry to sell high-end stuff and services to the pillagers also gives you an industry to sell high-end stuff and services when the looting is no more.

This is more or less the accepted narrative of why the Netherlands got rich of the Spanish pillage in America.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sat Apr 21st, 2012 at 03:40:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And this is basically what I said. Colonisation is not profitable, access to markets and resources is.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat Apr 21st, 2012 at 07:24:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But colonisation gives access to markets and resources. So it is profitable, unless some other country is willing to do it for you, then freeriding is even more profitable.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Sat Apr 21st, 2012 at 08:20:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The latter requires that someone in your sphere of commerce does the former. If you squint a bit, the difference between the hegemon and his trading partner blurs, then vanishes. Particularly from the perspective of clients and colonies of the hegemon, who do not enjoy such favourable terms of trade.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Apr 21st, 2012 at 09:15:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So the english colonization of India, which flooded the UK with cash, crushed the competing industry, reversed the balance of trade, provided a military force that was used worldwide, and was a key leg of the opium trade that turned China into a captive market - was of negative value to the UK and its European partners? Amazing!
by rootless2 on Sat Apr 21st, 2012 at 11:16:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Starvid:
Much better to buy local despots and let the natives police themselves while giving our companies access to their markets and resources.

That is how most colonies started.

Then resentment grows among local elites and the cousin of the despot discovers that he is the rightful heir to the throne. The rebellion kills company officials and others who looks like them, like missionaries. Great many stories in where the heroes have to save the missionaries before the brutal natives killss them, great propaganda.

So the marines has to be sent in to restore the order. Rinse and repeat.

After a while it appears to make more sense to post troops there indefinetely, and since the local despot is so incompetent at staying in power anyway, add a vice-king.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 03:18:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Smile when you say that, partner. :-)

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 at 02:44:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
François Hollande: Towards a European 'New Deal'? | EurActiv

If elected, Hollande has promised to "speak frankly and clearly" to the Germans. Sarkozy has not forced the issues of eurobonds, the ECB's role or greater financing of the European rescue fund, all of which Germany opposes, at least in the absence of stronger common rules for fiscal discipline.

"I prefer a power struggle rather than submission," said Hollande during a 26 January televised debate with Foreign Minister Alain Juppé.

These statements have made him the target of mockery of some on the right, who say these are signs at best of the candidate's naïveté and at worst of his ignorance of European political realities.

On the left, his approach is considered pragmatic. The absence of growth makes impossible any chance that governments can stabilise their public finances. Berger said "it's a matter of a being coherent with the budgetary objective that we have chosen".

Hollande's rhetoric is not as aggressive as that of Arnaud Montebourg - a Socialist politician who had been accused of Germanophobia for attacking what he called "Merkel's Bismarck-style policy". Nonetheless, he has not been shy about criticising Germany.

In 2010 Hollande said, "Germany is not trying to impose its model on the rest of Europe. It's worse than that: It has decided to work for itself, no longer considering Europe to be its frame of reference, but rather a burden that it grumblingly drags along".

And in an April 2011 speech he attacked Germany's privileged trading position saying, "Of course, we have to reduce our deficits, limit our debt ... but at the same time the Germans need to understand that it is not possible to [forever] have positive trade balances on the backs of one's European partners".

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 05:00:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Less interventionism from the Elysée, an energetic Prime Minister more to the left than the president, pressure from an organised left - this is not a desperately bad perspective.

Ah, British understatement :-) - though I realise that's a kind of defensive ploy given the expected pessimistic responses.

But imagine if the UK had such a prospect, instead of Cameron and co - happily they're at least having lots of problems at the moment.

It's bloody marvellous - at last, a real chance to get rid of Sarko and gang. OK, like Chomsky re Obama, I have "no illusions" about Hollande, but he and his crowd will be better than another five years of Sarko and co. Also, given how well Mélenchon has done, there's further reason to suppose H and co will feel able to move a bit further to the left.

Also it does seem that "the market" is realising that austerity is not the answer, cf the FT virtually endorsing Hollande, Sarko typically reacted by "at least misrepresenting" (FT) their views on Fr2. Le Monde reports today that the IMF is also saying that growth is important.

"Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will" Gramsci

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 03:46:04 PM EST
Love the Gramaci quote!

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 07:54:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Le Monde: Pour George Soros, "les dirigeants européens mènent l'Europe à sa perte" (18.04.2012)
Quel regard portez-vous sur l'élection présidentielle française?

Je ne vous dirai pas pour qui je voterais si j'étais Français ! Je pense que ce scrutin peut faire une différence en permettant une inflexion de la politique française, quel que soit le candidat élu. La France est dans une situation précaire : le marché du travail doit être assoupli, l'âge du départ à la retraite encore relevé, comme en Allemagne qui reste un modèle sur ce point. La France est vraiment en retard.

Cela dit, la politique européenne reste clairement entre les mains de l'Allemagne. Si François Hollande est élu, il lui sera difficile de s'éloigner de la ligne allemande. Une remise en cause de l'orthodoxie financière pourrait exposer le pays à une attaque des marchés.

(my emphasis)

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2012 at 07:37:47 PM EST
Strange point of view from Soros. Never mind who is elected, this should produce the well-known necessary reforms (labour market, pensions), Germany is the model to follow... But this said, Germany and financial orthodoxy are in charge. Sounds tautological to me. Or it just means TINA is a gorgeous German blonde.

As to a possible attack by the markets, I still seem to be seen as in denial of this, when I'm not. But my questions as to who are the actors on European bond markets today, and why we are told they also attack because financial orthodoxy produces recession making the debt problem insoluble, are still unanswered.

In fact, the blood-letting as prescribed cannot work, and will not. Spain will not succeed in bringing down the deficit as ordered, Italy is (latest not unexpected news) not going to be on target, neither of the return-to-balance programmes posted by candidats Sarkozy and Hollande can be taken seriously. The major German economic institutes (Eurointelligence) are complaining that even Germany has not by now attained a budget surplus.

This contradiction is bound (imo) to produce ideological conflict that will go public. It will in any case break the euro (as Soros thinks). I see battle ahead, not resignation to a Lost Decade (and why only a decade?). Whether we will have leaders (and popular movements) who are up to it, and what price Hollande in those stakes, I don't know.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 at 05:14:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru quoting Olivier Blanchard:
markets appear somewhat schizophrenic, asking for fiscal consolidation, but reacting adversely when consolidation leads to lower growth.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 at 05:33:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Schizophrenia in this case is the result of attributing a single intent to a complex system where the political agents misdiagnose the crisis.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 at 05:42:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Schizophrenia is often the result of reality intruding too painfully upon cherished falsehoods. The mind breaks from the inability to abandon the falsehood or otherwise expalin the painful reality. It is one of the most spectacular modes of failure for denial.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 at 02:50:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, schizophrenia (experiencing false sensory input - "hearing voices" in the vernacular) is one of the few psychiatric diseases that has a well-understood neurochemical aetiology, which has little or nothing to do with cognitive dissonance.

You may be talking about dissociative identity disorder, which has in the past been frequently misdiagnosed as schizophrenia.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 04:30:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Most of my understanding derives from reading in the '70s, before DSM III, which did break apart the DSM II definition into a whole range of separate diagnoses.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 09:19:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But my questions as to who are the actors on European bond markets today, and why we are told they also attack because financial orthodoxy produces recession making the debt problem insoluble, are still unanswered.
Well, the fact that markets are "schizophrenic" appears to have become part of the conventional wisdom.
In the case of fiscal policy, the issue is complicated by the pressure from markets for immediate fiscal consolidation. It is further complicated by the fact that markets appear somewhat schizophrenic, asking for fiscal consolidation, but reacting adversely when consolidation leads to lower growth. (Olivier Blanchard)
I doubt markets pressure for debt consolidation. What they pressure for is solvency of bond issuers. When there is a realisation that European states are no longer fiat-solvent, then they get subjected to the same standards as private firms, which in a crisis either deleverage (which also means downsizing their assets and activity) or go bankrupt to restore their solvency or the sustainability of their remaining debts. When a firm is on "bankruptcy watch" it becomes increasingly expensive for it to roll over its debt so, until it does go bankrupt or circumstances become favourable, it has no choice but to downsize. But selling profitable assets under stress to buy back debt (or avoid rolling it over) may make the remaining debt even less sustainable (since the cash-flowing profitable assets have been sold off).

This death spiral is unavoidable for a balance-sheet-solvent entity. Only a sovereign indebted in its own currency can avoid it, through monetary easing and fiscal stimulus. This can lead to domestic inflation. When the problem is external debt, it can lead to hyperinflation. Hyperinflation is just another form of external debt default according to Reinhart and Rogoff.

So, it is because EU policymakers representing creditor interests ask for fiscal consolidation (it's not the markets that ask for it) the sustainability of the debt deteriorates and then the markets react to negative growth prospects.

I don't think any single actor is schizophrenic. The system does not have a coherent tendency (it is, after all, a complex system living through a shock, and if it did have a coherent tendency it could be characterised as a bubble) and so schizophrenis can be attributed to both policymakers and "the market".

The only way out is for the sovereign (the ECB) to change its diagnosis of the crisis and of its own role in it. Fat chance of that.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 at 05:41:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's water for your mill. This is from someone who knows the markets very well, Nicolas Doisy, chief economist at CA Cheuvreux. In this English-language memo (pdf) from last month's CA Cheuvreux Europe bulletin, he outlines how Hollande will be under market pressure and will give way. More than that, he will do so to remain an orthodox European. More than that, he is planning on the "necessary" labour market reform and is lying to his electorate.

Doisy predicts Hollande will win the election, then intends to play-act renegotiation and explain to the French that he has obtained concessions, at the expense of "necessary" reform. The markets, in any case, Doisy explains in this video interview in French, will not accept less: Germany carried out the labour market reform in the mid '00s, Greece, Italy and Spain are now being obliged to, France will not be allowed to hold out any longer.

One point wrt context: the interview is for programme on public radio (Daniel Mermet's Là-bas si j'y suis) particularly well followed by left-thinking citizens. I suspect Doisy of laying on the "Hollande is tricking his electorate" theme, knowing quite well in whose ears he's instilling the poison. But it is written in the Cheuvreux bulletin too.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 at 03:36:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd add that we all know what the function of a chief economist with a bank is: chief propagandist.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 01:18:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
afew:
I'd add that we all know what the function of a chief economist with a bank is: chief propagandist.

Isn't this the answer to what "the markets" think? The markets think whatever their chief propagandists claim they think and the noise is so great that anything can be constructed to be signal in order to support the wished for narrative. So Hollande will come under a propaganda attack, claiming that his election has caused a crisis and only austerity can solve it.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 05:50:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The markets think whatever their chief propagandists claim they think and the noise is so great that anything can be constructed to be signal in order to support the wished for narrative.

How Delphic.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 05:52:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. Bank economists are priests, oracles and temple prostitutes all rolled into one.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 05:54:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How Babylonian.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 06:08:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. That, actually, has been my interest in "the markets" from the start: what is said to be their aim.

(Even when I ask who actually buys Eurozone sovereign bond issues today -- since having a picture of that might help deconstruct some of the narratives.)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 06:02:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure that statistic is even compiled, let alone made public.

But if I had to bet money, I'd bet on the three- and four-letter agencies.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 06:21:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It has to be compiled, if only to be able to service the debt.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 06:36:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]


If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.
by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 06:43:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think debt is serviced by clipping coupons from a paper certificate and mailing them any more...

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 06:53:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And what do you predict? Who will be closer to the mark?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 04:09:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Doisy is a propagandist who is selling a narrative concerning the markets.

I don't believe Hollande is planning to stage-manage "reform". That particular line isn't necessary to Doisy's story, since he says the markets will get their way whatever happens.

That may be so (that is, spin merchants like him may get their way). Above I offer an optimistic scenario, with reasonable basis, in which Hollande would be under pressure from the left and popular movements. It may not work out like that.

The only prediction I'll make is that the TINA CW is in for contradiction as a consequence of the real effects of austerity on Eurozone countries.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 04:51:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Does it make a difference whether Hollande is plotting to deceive his voters or he makes a spectacular about-face in his first 100 days?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 04:58:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe I should stop beating my wife?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 05:01:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
afew:
Doisy predicts Hollande will win the election, then intends to play-act renegotiation and explain to the French that he has obtained concessions, at the expense of "necessary" reform.

aka 'doing the clegg'

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 12:27:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hollande's a Lib-Dem now? Oh dear.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 04:54:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Soros wants to be a philosopher who does not need to engage in squalid electoral politics and, since he is absurdly rich, there is no shortage of people who will applaud this cowardly and self-indulgent little man.
 
by rootless2 on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 08:40:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Arnaud Montebourg : "Le destin de M. Sarkozy est un destin judiciaire" Arnaud Montebourg: "Mr Sarkozy's destiny is a judicial one"
Invité de LCI, jeudi 19 avril, Arnaud Montebourg a été interrogé sur la stratégie d'Eva Joly qui consiste, ces derniers jours, à remettre au centre les affaires judiciaires qui se rapprochent de Sarkozy. Comme l'avait dit Ségolène Royal avant lui, M. Montebourg estime que M. Sarkozy cherche à être réélu pour conserver son immunité.Guest of LCI, Thursday, April 19, Arnaud Montebourg was asked about the strategy of Eva Joly that is, these days, to bring attention to court cases that are close to Sarkozy. As was said before by Segolene Royal, Mr Sarkozy said that Mr. Montebourg seeking to be reelected to keep his immunity.
"Ce ne sont pas des attaques, des accusations, ce sont des faits qui sont constatables dans les procédures judiciaires. Le destin de M. Sarkozy est un destin judiciaire (...) il est mis en cause sur le plan judiciaire car son nom apparait, son activisme à l'époque pour créer des sociétés écrans comme ministre du budget est apparu dans le dossier. (...)
"These are not attacks, accusations, these are facts that are observable in legal proceedings. The fate of Mr Sarkozy is a judicial fate (...) he is implicated in the judicial proceedings because its name appears, his activism at the time to create company s screens as budget minister appeared in the dossier. (...)
Je pense que M. Sarkozy se bat pour gagner cette élection pour continuer à bénéficier de cette immunité. (...) Je peux parler aussi des conditions dans lesquelles l'UMP a été financée de façon illégale avec des évadés fiscaux en 2007 par le truchement de M. Woerth, tout cela a conduit le gestionnaire de fortune de Mme Bettencourt à dormir en prison depuis maintenant presque un mois. (...) I think Mr Sarkozy is fighting to win this election to continue to enjoy this immunity . (...) I can speak also about the conditions under which the UMP was illegally financed by tax evaders in 2007 through Mr. Woerth, all this has led the asset manager of Madame Bettencourt to sleep in prison for almost a month now. (...)
Nous avons là un certain nombre d'éléments à charge qui figurent objectivement dans des affaires en cours." We have a number of incriminating evidence objectively contained in pending cases. "


It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 at 05:25:07 AM EST
"Mr Sarkozy said that Mr. Montebourg seeking to be reelected to keep his immunity."

should be

"Mr Montebourg said that Mr Sarkozy was seeking reelection to keep his immunity".

Google Translate don't know nuffin'.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 at 05:35:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is increasingly important that independent prosecutors be established so that incumbents can be charged with crimes while in office. At present it is too easy to see prosecution after leaving office as just the standard fare for all incumbents - tit for tat. In the USA we no longer even reliably prosecute former incumbents.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Apr 19th, 2012 at 02:57:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In the case of France, I don't think that's necessary. Immunity while in office is OK with me, as long as it doesn't continue in practice afterward. France has a functional system of independent prosecutors, marred by the hierarchical subordination of the judges' bosses to the Ministry of Justice. Eva Joly's career illustrates what this leads to, but there are many other examples. Break this link and the system isn't all that bad.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 03:29:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How much election play is Sarko's camp's attack on Schengen together with the letter signed by both Germany and France getting?

Merkel is getting roundly thrashed for it here, from all parties even including her own. And Spiegel headlined:

Gift (Geschenk) for Sarkozy; Poison (Gift) for Europe

nice wordplay, Spiggle

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 04:22:34 PM EST
Is Merkel miscalculating (and why)? Is she squandering her political capital with the Euro crisis? Might she lose in 2013?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 04:29:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Her problem isn't the voter, it's her party. She is modernising it, but that means a conflict with the more reactionary parts of it. At present she is giving this part of her party (and the CSU) an overdose of kindness. Preparing the next U-turn, perhaps.
by Katrin on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 04:52:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yesterday: Felipe González: "Para salir de la crisis hace falta que en Francia haya un presidente que le diga a Merkel que no" ("To get out of the crisis what's needed is a French President who can say no to Merkel")

And also Merkel is the problem

"There's no need for more sacrifices"

...

... "austerity is necessary, but not to shrink the economy two points at a time"



guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 04:40:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It didn't feature immediately in the French media. Is now coming through with the kind of bland "here is the news" style French journalists use so as not to get shit on their shoes.

I immediately thought it was a helping hand Sarko had requested from Berlin to prove that his threat to practise the "empty chair" in Europe, like De Gaulle, unless he could gut what was left of Schengen, had worked.

It will probably (see eurogreen's comment) be used between the two rounds.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2012 at 04:52:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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