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Object Lesson: Periphery

by afew Fri May 11th, 2012 at 04:32:00 AM EST

In his two last blog posts, Yanis Varoufakis (h/t Migeru) looks at two sides of the coin of the use of the Eurozone periphery as an object lesson to back opposing views:

Europe’s potential gains from a silent alliance between Paris and Athens « Yanis Varoufakis

Greece offers Mr Hollande a precious case in point. He can use it as an example of what happens when the EE insists that a bankruptcy is not a bankruptcy, and piles up huge loans and unbearable austerity on a national economy that can, simply, not bear it without collapsing into a heap. He can then argue, convincingly, that ‘staying the course’ is simply infeasible – quite independently of the political will of the local elites (recall how determined the Greek elites where to do so, until they were booted out last Sunday by a despairing electorate). Mr Hollande can conclude, from the Greek case, that Europe must find a new strategy that gives the deficit countries a sporting chance without asking of the Germans to bankroll any of the bad debts or the burgeoning deficits. For ideas of how this can be done, see here, here and here.

Fiscal austerity and structural reforms will drive economies over the cliff before any (hypothetical) positive results may occur. Fair point. But

A one-word explanation on why the eurozone cannot inflate its way out of trouble: Spain! « Yanis Varoufakis

...Spain’s insolvency (and Greece’s, Italy’s, etc.) is still seen by certain German policy makers as a golden opportunity to impose upon France (via the Periphery) their views on how things should be. You don’t need to take my word for this. Jens Weidemann said so in today’s FT piece (that I already quoted above):  “…relieving stress in the sovereign bond markets eases imminent funding pain but blurs the signal to sovereigns about the precarious state of public finances and the urgent need to act.”

Anyone want to be François Hollande?


Display:
Europe's potential gains from a silent alliance between Paris and Athens « Yanis Varoufakis
Truth be told, even if Mr Hollande says all this, it is highly unlikely that the German mindset will be persuaded to undergo the gestalt shift it needs overnight.

Example (from Eurointelligence news briefing by email):

Angela Merkel's chief whip in Bundestag Volker Kauder told Francois Hollande not to count on Germany to agree to European project bonds or any other stimulus programs that would be financed with debt. "If Hollande wants to initiate a debt financed stimulus programme, then he should look where he can get the money from on the markets", Kauder told Handelsblatt. "The chancellor's close ally warned that France's competitiveness will not be strengthened by increasing taxes and by unwinding past structural reforms. The markets would severely punish France, Kauder warned. He said France cannot afford another downgrade.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 04:34:27 AM EST
"He said France cannot afford another downgrade. "

Because downgrades have had such a major impact on interest rates of late.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 05:00:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Today, in El Pais, J. I. Torreblanca finishes an article: "a very uncomfortable doubt: what if Hollande had come too late?
by PerCLupi on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 01:12:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A comfortable certainty - more Sarkozy would have been worse.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 04:46:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Periphery: proxy war.

I suppose Spain cannot complain about being destroyed as a battleground between Germany and France. We used to do the same to Italy in the 16th century (with the successive wars between Phillip II of Spain and Francis I of France).

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 04:41:32 AM EST
But how well is this known by the average Spaniard?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 09:29:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The average Spaniard doesn't know.
by PerCLupi on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 01:17:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was told in School when I was 12 or so. Most of my classmates have forgotten.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 05:23:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We could use the Spanish Road again...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 12:15:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reading Machiavelli's Prince probably works as a reminder, and I'd bet that book is compulsory in every single political science 101 class in the entire world.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat May 12th, 2012 at 01:17:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hell, what army does Germany have? And in any event, with their natality rate, where the hell do they think they'll find soldiers who want to fight for them?

I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from them Eugene Debs
by redstar on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 05:27:42 AM EST
My god this blog is really devolving into nationalistic blabbering.
by IM on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 05:31:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just catching the spirit of the times, I guess.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 05:44:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is sometimes difficult to know what goes on people's minds where they are writing.

I sometimes like to write things that, in my view, reflect the spirit of times (irrespective of if I agree with them or not).

Mostly to see what reaction I get from people. It is both funny (in a sadistic kind of funny), but above all it is despairing. Despairing because people seem to apply old modes of reasoning and they only change after the time for a proper reaction.

Indeed, this crisis is mostly a story of people clinging to their beliefs until it is too late.

"Just catching the spirit of times" is the biggest understatement of the day.

by cagatacos on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 07:23:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
until it is too late
by PerCLupi on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 01:17:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's just redstar having a moment.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 05:51:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Stanley Cup playoffs are going on, so redstar's feeling a bit shoulderchecky.

Which I can sympathize with, as it's the offseason for handegg here.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:26:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Redstar's thing is not handegg but Disney on Ice.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:32:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At least they have straight-up fights in hockey.  I don't really understand the point, but I can sort of respect that in a weird way.

Baseball players have to bean each other to show their "manliness," probably because most of them would blow out an ACL if they ever had to put in the physical effort needed to throw a punch.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:36:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I personally think they need to bring fights back to hockey instead of penalizing them so much. It's such a crazy sport with people flying around at high speeds throwing elbows to one another's heads. Back in the old days, before padding and helmets, you would get your brains beat in if you tried that dangerous stuff out there, but these days players are hurting people badly because there are so few repercussions. Sorry for the thread hijack, but hockey needs more fighting.
by Upstate NY on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 09:54:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you for your voice of reason.

Eric Lindros and Sid Crosby thank you too.

I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from them Eugene Debs

by redstar on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 10:22:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, because when you step into the rink, you give up all your legal rights related to aggravated assault, battery, and manslaughter.

The reality is that the whole concept of professional sports is a cancer on civilization.

  • American football players committing suicide as they realize that their brains are mush.
  • Boxers not even realizing it.
  • Hockey with specific penalties about different degrees of battery during play.
  • "Non-contact sport" basketball with blatant violent contact.
  • College sport finance completely outclassing academics.
  • Kids spending hours per day on sports in lieu of homework.
  • Sports talk radio hosts egging on their fat TV-watching fans to support the whole mess.

What is really needed is a shutdown of the entire professional sports industry. Which will not happen.
by asdf on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 10:55:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Which will not happen."

Hence, why we make do.

Yesterday, the state of Minnesota gave $500 million to a billionaire so he can build a stadium for his team.

I'm reminded of the movie "Z" when the thugs attempted to murder a witness to an assault. When the investigator asks the victim what his political affiliation is, he replies, "I'm for football!!"

The Minnesota stadium funding was approved under heavy pressure from average citizens.

by Upstate NY on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 11:06:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"The Minnesota stadium funding was approved under heavy pressure from average citizens."

Because the majority's brains have been turned to "mush" by the promotion of sport as a business and the media focus on it for business reasons.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 04:54:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But, but, Sports of the last thing we can still understand !

The only part of my morning newspaper which has maintained its claim for space over the years.

All the rest of life, business, politics, economics, even the weather, has become incomprehensible.

But the Handegg draft was something you could deal with

by greatferm (greatferm-at-email.com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 12:55:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
of all the Summer Olympics sports...they're all boring anyway. Then, we can have the Winter Olympics every two years instead of four.

I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from them Eugene Debs
by redstar on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 01:02:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nonsense.  Who doesn't enjoy watching golf?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 05:42:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Only if there's fighting.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 07:09:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As in funny games?

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 12th, 2012 at 03:58:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is golf even a sport? And is is at the Olympics? I then suggest we add moose hunting as an Olympic event. Kinda slow to watch, but so is baseball.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat May 12th, 2012 at 01:21:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
sport.

I know, I know, another compromise, but hey, that's what politics is all about, i'n't it?

I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from them Eugene Debs

by redstar on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 01:03:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't understand why they got rid of baseball. The Latin American countries were very unhappy about that.
by Upstate NY on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 01:21:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe the "World Series" where only the U.S. and Canada participate--despite great teams in Central America and the Far East--had something to do with it?

The U.N. solution would be to invent a new game, with features from baseball, cricket, and lapta. That would cover practically everywhere...

by asdf on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 01:37:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but in Europe, you have the Premier League, etc. Those are national leagues too, not international leagues.

The Olympics's only concern should be the global popularity of the sport, and baseball clearly qualifies.

by Upstate NY on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 02:06:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't that a bit cheeky?

I know the Japanese are quite good at baseball, but they're also quite good at Patchinko...

I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from them Eugene Debs

by redstar on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 02:08:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Japan, Taiwan, Phillipines, Korea, Australia, the Netherlands, Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Virgin Islands, Mexico, Canada, Nicaragua, South Africa, Panama, all these countries have produced multiple big leaguers.
by Upstate NY on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:56:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Guess I'm going to have to google it.

I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from them Eugene Debs
by redstar on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:36:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
American football, "armored wankball," etc.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:37:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the Urban Dictionary, which is somehow blocked here at work.

User/Machine:
   DEFAULT  
IP:   1X.21X.19.148  
Category:   Obscene/Tasteless
Blocked URL:   http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=handegg


I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from them Eugene Debs
by redstar on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:38:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, the IT guys have figured out Urban Dictionary in your office.  We can still get it in mine, but I don't imagine that'll last much longer.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:43:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]


guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:38:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why is the arrow labeled "Hand" pointing to an elbow?

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:14:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"He doesn't know his arse from his elbow" :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 07:03:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Elbowegg.
by kjr63 on Sat May 12th, 2012 at 04:13:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Disney on Ice," by the way, is excellent.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:45:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd post a link to various efforts at disturbingly irony-unaware versions of 'Titanic on Ice'. But it's easy to Google them.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:49:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it's awful.

Tickets to DOI: $10

Price for a whirligig doohickey: $40

by Upstate NY on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 09:55:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And Disney bought into the NHL too, the Mighty Ducks (though we call them something else).

I was at a Ducks game once, they played "The Look of Love" during a stop in play. Hells Bells would have been more appropriate, but that's hockey by Disney.

They spoil everything they touch.

I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from them Eugene Debs

by redstar on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 10:26:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I mean calling hockey "Disney on Ice" is excellent.  Good hate.  Lofty hate.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 05:24:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
banker we see on the telly and in the FT daily?

I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from them Eugene Debs
by redstar on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:14:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is someone else loses his mind, have you to embrace madness too?
by IM on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:16:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When a whole country loses its mind (Germany seems to like its bankers and its present leadeship, Merkel is doing great in the polls up there) and makes choices which damage everyone else and ultimately destroy the foundation of Europe, I'm going to get pissed off.

And I'm not alone.

I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from them Eugene Debs

by redstar on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:19:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, misery loves company. I wish you happy days in your nationalistic bedlam.
by IM on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:22:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
FRANCE!  FUCK YEAH!

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:26:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]


guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:30:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There really needs to be a new academic discipline (as though we don't have enough of them) that can psychoanalyze nations. The idea that nations can get over past traumas after generational shifts is dubious at best. These things stick around for longer than a human life. Israel will be battling Palestinians on the 200th anniversary of the country's founding, and as my Italian economics professor at the University of Padova said when the Berlin Wall fell, "Every 40 years or so, Germany will try to take over the world!"
by Upstate NY on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 10:00:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A certain sausage factory in Tanganyika springs to mind.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 10:06:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He said German banker, not bonkers German.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:19:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There's a distinction?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:44:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No.

(Simple answers to simple questions, etc.)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 06:50:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is nationalism. And many other things.
by PerCLupi on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 01:19:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]


    Overall debt ratio in EU likely to rise to 87% next year from 86% this year. It's worse in the eurozone, increasing from 92% to 93%.

So, is austerity working, reporters asked Rehn:

    "That's too simple, simplistic," comes the reply, before replaying his riff on investment, "project bonds", the European Investment Bank etc

from the Guardian.

by rootless2 on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 10:10:40 AM EST
Democracy is also too simplistic for us mere plebes.

I went to school with that fucker, too.

I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from them Eugene Debs

by redstar on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 10:18:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Monarchy is a lot easier to understand than multi-round preference voting for disproportionally-allocated representatives in a multi-party parliament with hereditary and elected chambers plus token presidents.

If you don't understand it, they chop off your head. What could be easier?

by asdf on Fri May 11th, 2012 at 01:40:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Björn Wahlroos, President of Nordea bank etc, recently compared the European Commission to the Chinese Politburo. Well. He does have a point. Except that the latter actually helps foster very considerable economic development.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat May 12th, 2012 at 01:29:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If I were a Nordea executive, I would be keeping a rather lower profile.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat May 12th, 2012 at 05:24:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, you do have a point. On the other hand, Nordea is not entirely reliant on the good graces of the ECB: it can always go to the Riksbank for cash.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Thu May 17th, 2012 at 01:54:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sweden's decision to stay out of the euro is looking wiser as things go along.


Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Thu May 17th, 2012 at 02:35:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Born in Mikkeli in Eastern Finland, Rehn studied economics, international relations and journalism at Macalester College, Saint Paul, Minnesota, USA. He gained a master's degree in political science from the University of Helsinki in 1989, and a PhD from the University of Oxford in 1996 on the subject of "Corporatism and Industrial Competitiveness in Small European States".
How many toxic EU politicians have been educated in the US?

Papandreou comes to mind, and Draghi.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 12th, 2012 at 05:31:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oxford is in the UK and I expect that he learned hayekism there.
by rootless2 on Sat May 12th, 2012 at 10:08:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Macalester College is actually a pretty left-wing university (I went there too).

Rehn was one of those students who stayed in a small circle of foreign, mostly wealthy Econ students who kept to themselves, even from those of us non-wealthy Econ students.

It's easier to be a proper asshole in adulthood when you started out being one.

I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks, and not from them Eugene Debs

by redstar on Sun May 13th, 2012 at 05:42:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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