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French election - open thread

by Jerome a Paris Sun May 6th, 2012 at 08:48:40 AM EST

Today's the second round of the presidential election. Hollande is still expected to win, even if the lead has slightly narrowed in the most recent polls.

Participation at noon was 30.66%, higher than for the first round (28.29%), but slightly lower than in 2007 (34.11%) - so the final number should be in the low/mid 80s.

Use as an open thread - and don't forget that today is also election day in Greece, see talos's background diary and election diary.


Display:
Le Tribune de Geneve has Hollande leading by 5 to 6 points at 3:45.

http://www.tdg.ch/monde/francois-hollande-obtiendrait-53-suffrages-nicolas-sarkozy/story/15086944

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 09:57:37 AM EST
I believe this is bases on exit polls.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 11:10:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was rather annoyed by BBC this morning. They kept saying that it was too close to call, that it was the closest election ever (er, Mitterrand v. Giscard anyone?).

Yet, we just had the London mayor election, that was significantly closer, and it was reported as Johnson being clear favourite, pretty much certain to win and all that.

Similarly, tories had been talked up a lot before the last general election.

It seems that the standards are different whether a man from the left or the right is leading.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 11:16:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well it could be worse, you could be reading the mail.

France presidential election 2012: French will swarm into UK if Francois Hollande triumphs | Mail Online

Tory Cabinet Minister Iain Duncan Smith has risked a diplomatic row by predicting that French immigrants will pour into Britain if a socialist president is elected today.

The Work and Pensions Secretary warned that Left-wing candidate Francois Hollande's high tax policies would drive hard-pressed French taxpayers across the Channel.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 11:26:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ha, thats really funny

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 11:32:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey Duncan Smith, there's other things in life besides money.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:17:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good God, he's still around?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:19:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Definitely need to reinforce border controls. Patrol boats to shoot those who try to swim the channel.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:34:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by tjbuff (timhess@adelphia.net) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 01:12:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 01:20:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cross-Channel swimming never looked like this before...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 01:47:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe he means all those Brits who live in France will be returning home :-)
by paving on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:41:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The obvious solution is to increase taxes on the rich in the U.K. to send them back to France.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 04:23:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think there's also a problem that the foreign correspondents tend to go with conventional widom a lot of the time.

It doesn't help that the main correspondent over there is Katya Adler, a person I've encountered and know for certain is an arrogant fool.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 11:34:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17958367

The BBC's Katya Adler tweets: Sarkozy has had to fight against himself, his image in French people's eyes, more than against his Socialist opponent.

So as usual the socialists can't win, it's all down to the right failing to win

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:13:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
FT said "closest in 30 years" - which simply means "closer than 52.7%" (Chirac's score in 1995) and is consistent with the optimistic (from the right's perspective) take on the last polls.

Hopefully they will be proven wrong and Sarkozy loses by more than he won last time (53.1%)


Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 11:43:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Élection présidentielle en France - Wikipédia
Second tour de l'élection présidentielle depuis 1965
Élection Candidat
Parti politique
% des suffrages exprimés Candidat
Parti politique
% des suffrages exprimés
1965 Charles de Gaulle
UNR
55,80 % François Mitterrand
CIR
44,20 %
1969 Georges Pompidou
UDR
58,21 % Alain Poher
CD
41,79 %
1974 Valéry Giscard d'Estaing
RI
50,81 % François Mitterrand
PS
49,19 %
1981 François Mitterrand
PS
51,76 % Valéry Giscard d'Estaing
UDF
48,24 %
1988 François Mitterrand
PS
54,02 % Jacques Chirac
RPR
45,98 %
1995 Jacques Chirac
RPR
52,64 % Lionel Jospin
PS
47,36 %
2002 Jacques Chirac
RPR
82,21 % Jean-Marie Le Pen
FN
17,79 %
2007 Nicolas Sarkozy
UMP
53,06 % Ségolène Royal
PS
46,94 %

If you except the 2002 election (Chirac vs. Le Pen père in the second round; Jospin eliminated), the highest score since the 1970's was Mitterand in 1988 with 54.02%.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:05:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We saw the exact same line used in the US in the past decade.  When Bush won in 2004 by  50.7%-48.3% it was called a "mandate" and celebrated like some kind of huge and affirming victory.   Then when Obama won in 2008 by 52.9%-45.7% it was called a "close" election, despite being a very large victory.  We are now enjoying the line that this will be a "close election" between Romney and Obama when more likely than not it will be a 5% spread for Obama when all is said and done.

This is one area where the corporate media reliably reveals its orientation and I think it's effective to point it out frequently.  In the run-up one knows that it's in the best interest of the media to create or call a "close election" to get viewers - that is gross enough on its face but is understood as self-interested capitalism.  For example, they always release some ridiculous outlying polls that claim its close and use that to frame the narrative as long as possible despite the larger polling picture showing a huge spread.

The idea is to de-legitimize the victory, naturally, and should be called out not only for its impact but for its clear revealing of the intent of the corporate media.

by paving on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:47:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Same with calling Sarkozy "center-right" and Melenchon "extreme left"

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:52:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Beeb has been pushing that line for a few days now. Ridiculous and biased.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 11:44:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
RT @TheRightArticle: BBC report Hollande's 4% win as 'close' and Johnsons 3% win as 'smashing the Labour party" Says it all...

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 05:17:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not to mention that Johnson had all the media with him, and Hollande the vast majority against him. With all the scare stories and "in such a maelstrom you need someone experienced at being president" as a bonus.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 05:39:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
 the view from the right

Twitter / @mikefreermp: BBC News just can't help t ...

BBC News just can't help themselves. A 4%margin for Hollande is a clear victory. 3% margin for Boris is a narrow one. #bbcbias


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 05:57:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One could argue that 3-4 is the line from "narrow" to "clear" but one cannot argue it is the other way around.  This guy is reaching.
by paving on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 10:47:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I will check back later. If I devote more attention to ET just now nothing else will get done today. The garden awaits. Tomatoes and cucumbers are in and peppers are waiting for the preparation of their bed.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 10:25:40 AM EST
When do the polls close and results start coming in?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 11:07:18 AM EST
should start coming after 6pm (i.e. lunch time for you).

Official numbers at 8pm.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 11:09:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's 2pm Eastern time for us New Yorkers
by paving on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:49:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Who eats lunch at 2PM?  You French are so weird, with your late lunches and your respectable voting turnout and your first-world health care....

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:54:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's my lunch time.
by paving on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:56:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I usually eat lunch at about 11AM.  But then I get into work at 7AM, and I'm apparently a freak for that.

I was just reaching for the joke, really. :)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 01:19:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's my lunch time.
by paving on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:56:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's my lunch time, too, usually, and I don't like it one bit. I want my lunch at noon, as God intended, and these inconsiderate customers who keep scheduling telephonic meetings at noontime just drive me crazy. I suppose their being in a different time zone will be the excuse they drag out...
by asdf on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 01:39:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You must start work really early too, like 7 or 8? I would think that when you would want to go to lunch would largely depend on when you start work in the morning. If you work 10-6 going to lunch at 2 is great because it makes the afternoon seem to whizz by. If you start work much before 9 and don't go to lunch until 2, I would think you would be absolutely famished by that time.  
by sgr2 on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:02:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"You must start work really early too, like 7 or 8?"

Ha, ha; I take it you're not an American! 8:00 is the standard starting time for most office workers, and that doesn't include commute time and walking-from-parking-lot-to-office-and-getting-coffee time. Showing up to work at 8:00 marks you as a slacker.

I have just had a significant improvement in my working conditions where I was told that my standard weekly schedule was to be reduced from 50 hours to 45 hours. That's officially billable time, not including any irregular support for "technical events" (aka computer system failures), special work required to support new sales opportunities, time spent on contract revision efforts, time required out of normal hours to deal with personnel issues, personal training, or anything related to routine work where time zone misalignment takes it out of the normal work schedule.

by asdf on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:44:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This isn't true in all industries or places.  I start around 10.
by paving on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:47:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sure, I'm from there. But in most offices I've worked the standard hours were 9-5 with an hour for lunch. As an independent contractor I was usually able to negotiate 10-6, which was better for me because I was almost always running late. Even with getting up at 5:30, after swimming, meditating, eating, and countless phone discussions, getting anywhere before 10 was practically impossible, especially if I had to commute by car. Normally I would just work until whatever needed to be done got done; often without actually going anywhere at lunch. Didn't really matter if it took 7 hours, 10 hours, whatever. So I don't really think I was thought of as a "slacker."

Good to hear you've had an improvement in your working conditions and now less hours.

by sgr2 on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 04:36:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
9 to 5, eh? Wow.
by asdf on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 09:46:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just like the movie.
by sgr2 on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 10:06:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In large cities and their suburbs, polling stations close at 8:00PM. In smaller cities and rural areas they're keeping country hours and close at 6:00.

This is when the first exit polls results should be available. By law, all poll results and estimates are embargoed until 8:00 PM (i.e. closing time of the last polling stations), but our neighbors are not bound by these rules (Brussels & Geneva).

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 11:52:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
71.96 %, higher than the first round (70.59 %), but lower than at the same time in 2007 (75.11 %). So low 80s it will be.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 11:08:13 AM EST
Lower is good or bad.

After hearing that Marine Himler said she would abstain, I kind of formed an idea that whatever abnormal abstention would be from the crazies which would be good for PS.
Of course, historically more votes tend to favor parties to the left.
We'll see.

by Euroliberal on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:15:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Should have read good or bad?

Want your take on this.

by Euroliberal on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:16:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
She said she would vote blank, which wouldn't count her among the abstentionnists.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:19:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BFM TV predicts 82%, which is pretty decent.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:43:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
actu - lesoir.be - les premiers résultats des présidentielles françaises 2012
17h30 Les premiers résultats faisant état d'une victoire de François Hollande sur Nicolas Sarkozy, par 53% des voix contre 47%, ont été confirmés au "Soir" ce dimanche à 17h30 par une source bien informée proche de la rue de Solférino, le siège parisien du Parti socialiste français.


"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:16:45 PM EST
actu - lesoir.be - les premiers résultats des présidentielles françaises 2012
18h01 De notre envoyé spécial à Paris, depuis la salle de la Mutualité (où Sarkozy doit parler): "De source diplomatique, il nous revient que l'UMP a annulé le rassemblement populaire prévu ce soir place de la Concorde".


"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hello Monsieur Melanchthon.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:21:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hi!

Looks like we will get rid of Sarko today...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:25:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Everyone who hasn't voted yet must get out there and vote. Hollande.

But yes, it looks like ;)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:33:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ever since I've been an immigrant - i.e. Most of my adult life - I've had two bogey men.

First, Charles Pasqua. Second his successor... Wharsisname. Oh I've forgotten already.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:39:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mrs Eurogreen sends kisses.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:42:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Kisses to you all from Chad

Tell her we will celebrate when I'm in Lyon in June.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:45:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Présidentielle française: Pour l'instant, Hollande bat Sarkozy avec 53% des voix - News Monde: Europe - tdg.ch
18:15  

Pour les préparatifs de fête de la victoire, avantage Bastille contre Concorde. A l'approche de l'annonce des résultats à 20h, on s'agite depuis le courant de l'après-midi, place de la Bastille et à la Concorde à Paris. Mais on semble plus avancés dans le camp de François Hollande que dans celui de Nicolas Sarkozy. Les grues s'affairent à la Bastille, où le candidat socialiste doit fêter sa victoire s'il est élu, et des ouvriers édifient une grande scène. Lieu symbolique pour la gauche, c'est sur cette place qu'en 1981 les socialistes avaient fêté l'élection de François Mitterrand. A la Concorde, où Nicolas Sarkozy avait triomphé en 2007, une demi-douzaine de camions satellitaires déploient leurs câbles et positionnent leurs antennes. Mais aucun militant de l'UMP n'est visible sur la place livrée aux badauds et touristes.



"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:21:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Présidentielle française: Pour l'instant, Hollande bat Sarkozy avec 53% des voix - News Monde: Europe - tdg.ch
18:25  

De plus en plus de sources confirment la victoire de François Hollande. De tous les chiffres qui circulent, aucun ne donne Sarkozy vainqueur, pas même les deux candidats au coude à coude. François Hollande l'emporterait avec un score oscillant, selon les sources, entre 52% et 55% ; ce qui place le score que ferait le socialiste au-delà de la marge d'erreur propre aux sondages.



"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:29:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
actu - lesoir.be - François Hollande sera le prochain
Président de la République
Présidentielle 2012 Selon notre correspondante permanente à Paris, tous les sondeurs donnent Hollande vainqueur à 52,5 %, sauf CSA et Sofres à 53%. Des chiffres à prendre avec la plus grande prudence, mais qui confirment les chiffres déjà indiquées plus tôt.


"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:42:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Présidentielle française: La victoire de François Hollande se confirme - News Monde: Europe - tdg.ch
18:50  

Les Renseignements généraux (RG) donnent François Hollande vainqueur à 52,5%. Selon l'institut de sondages Ipsos, le candidat socialiste recueillerait également 52%.



"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:55:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
François Hollande sera le prochain Président de la République - lesoir.be
18h24 : François Hollande est donné vainqueur par tous les sondages de sortie des urnes avec 52,5 % des voix, voire 53 % pour CSA et Sofres.


"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:58:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Présidentielle française: La victoire de François Hollande se confirme - News Monde: Europe - tdg.ch
19:04  

Comme au premier tour, l'AFP (Agence France Presse) envoie à ses abonnés les informations sur l'élection de François Hollande, leur laissant la responsabilité de les publier avant l'embargo de 20h. Voici la dépêche que vient de diffuser l'AFP: «Le socialiste François Hollande a été élu dimanche président de la République, recueillant entre 52 et 53,3% des suffrages au second tour de la présidentielle, d'après les estimations de quatre instituts de sondages. Selon les instituts CSA, TNS Sofres et Ipsos, le candidat PS a obtenu 52% des voix contre 48% à son rival UMP, le président sortant Nicolas Sarkozy. Les estimations de Harris Interactive variaient entre 52,7 et 53,3% en faveur du candidat socialiste.»



"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 01:11:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Présidentielle française: La victoire de François Hollande se confirme - News Monde: Europe - tdg.ch
19:08  

La Sofres va jusqu'à donner 55% des voix à François Hollande. «Il ne faut pas rêver», commente-t-on toutefois au siège du Parti socialiste français.



"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 01:13:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Marseille: Des bureaux de vote vandalisés - 20minutes.fr
Des bureaux de vote ont été vandalisés à Marseille dans la nuit de samedi à dimanche. Deux murs en parpaing ont été dressés devant les entrées d'une école primaire à la Blancarde (4e) et sept autres bureaux de vote ont été saccagés.

Several polling stations vandalized last night in Marseille: cinder block walls hastily set up to block the doors. Municipal services cleared up the stations this morning and polling could start without further incident. Police is investigating, but no clue as to who could be behind this. Local elected officials noted this happened in parts of the city that are usually trending right wing.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:33:42 PM EST
How do you set up a cinder block wall "hastily?" One would think the mortar would require a day or so to set...
by asdf on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 01:40:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fast-setting cement?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 01:45:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wrote "hastily" because the mischief was done during the night and presumably discovered early this morning by the polling stations attendants, so one can assume it was a rush job...

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 01:49:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh and there are reports of dead people having voted in Corsica, but over there it's business as usual.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:34:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We don't have that problem any more in America. We've started pushing people off the voter registration rolls when they stop driving, typically around 70 or so. Good chance you're unable to vote before you're dead.

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-01-2012/voter-id-laws-impact-older-am ericans.html

by asdf on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:48:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
State Departments of Motor Vehicles will issue a state ID to people who can't or won't obtain a driver's licence. At least California does.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:51:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All states do - and if the state has a voter ID law then the ID must be free (poll tax issue).  The point is that it's a hassle.
by paving on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 04:29:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Getting a driver's licence is a hassle.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 04:57:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Getting a drivers license is supposed to be a hassle. Getting whatever ID's to vote (that the Republicans in the state legislature have decided will give them a partisan advantage) shouldn't be. But if it weren't a hassle, there'd be no partisan advantage.

Biggest example is the state where a gun license works but a college student ID doesn't.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 10:50:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you can produce a birth certificate, yes. But for many people born in rural areas before WW2, that was optional paperwork...
by asdf on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 09:42:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Twitter / @helenlewis: My favourite #radiolondres ...

My favourite #radiolondres tweet - captioned 'the Swiss border, now' twitpic.com/9i2eo5 via



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:37:12 PM EST
hahah fantastique, un rêve
by paving on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:54:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Huevos grandes on the guys standing in the middle of them.  Those could all catch fire at any minute.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 12:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is that a photo of French people emigrating to the UK after the Hollande victory?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 01:09:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sure is. I'm in the left line, fifth from the back.

(Sent from my iPhone)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 01:36:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by asdf on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 01:45:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ici #RadioLondres Uninstalling Sarkozy in progress 99% done â-^â-^â-^â-^â-^â-^â-^â-^â-^â-^â-^â-^ 6;-^â-^â-`â-` Running time: 5 years - Remaining Time: 4h00"

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 01:15:36 PM EST


It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:00:46 PM EST
Tight, as I predicted... But ample, in practice.

Especiaally with the amplifying effect of the forthcoming legislatives.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:03:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Where can you see an official estimation? Ipsos says 51.9%. Sofres 51.5% Other pollsters give 52.5%. Each media announces the estimation of its pollster.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:11:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
52-48, called for Hollande.

That seems a bit close to be calling it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:13:55 PM EST
Not really: by 8PM on Sunday, a majority of the results are in (stations that close at 6PM) and there are extensive exit polls (based on results of previous elections on the same stations).

So anything under 51-49 might be "close" but we are not there today.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:20:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
we actually have a public apparatus that counts the votes properly and fast. :)

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:29:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sarkozy has conceded, anyway.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:35:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
'The incumbent lost like elsewhere' (FT)
'let's think about France today' (Sarkozy)

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:30:45 PM EST
to be fair, Sarkozy's speech was not that of a sore loser (his public was worse).

But he did not seem to be feeling much.

Wind power

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:32:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
French right wing implosion starting in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

Actually, it started even before the official results:

La droite n'a pas attendu 20h pour se déchirer - Le Nouvel Observateur The right did not wait until 8PM to tear itself apart - Le Nouvel Observateur
Ils n'ont pas attendu l'heure légale pour dégainer. Des cadres de droite ont commenté la défaite de Nicolas Sarkozy avant 20h dimanche en fin d'après-midi. Selon David-Xavier Weiss, secrétaire national de l'UMP, la stratégie mise en place par Patrick Buisson, conseiller controversé de Nicolas Sarkozy, est "un échec total".They did not wait the legal deadline for pulling the knives out. Right wing cadres commented upon Nicolas Sarkozy's defeat well before 20:00 late Sunday afternoon. According to Xavier David Weiss, national secretary of the UMP, the strategy implemented by Patrick Buisson, Nicolas Sarkozy's controversial adviser, is "a total failure".
Le responsable média et presse de l'UMP a envoyé un communiqué à 19h40 qui affirme: "Le centre de gravité de l'UMP sera recentré, les stratégies plus que droitières animées notamment par Patrick Buisson se sont avérées un échec total." Il enfonce même le clou : "C'est surtout à M. Buisson que nous devons la défaite de la droite par le refus de toute ouverture voire de tout débat sur les sujets de société comme le mariage gay, le droit de vote des étrangers aux élections locales ou encore l'euthanasie".The press and media officer of the UMP sent a statement at 19:40: "The center of gravity of the UMP will be refocused, extreme right leaning strategies animated, among others, by Patrick Buisson proved a total failure." He even pushed the point home: "It is especially thanks to Mr. Buisson that we face such a defeat of the right, by the refusal for any opening or even any discussion of social issues like gay marriage, the foreigner's right to vote in local elections or euthanasia. "


Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:42:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the Buisson (Bush) strategy was a resounding success. Given that there was no way S was going to win, the hard-right strategy of Buisson made it a closer result than it should have been.

It's a fouled nest he's left to Hollande : France is bitterly divided.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 03:45:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And still essentially more to the right than the left.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 03:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good luck to Hollande, to the French, to all of us!
by PerCLupi on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:31:45 PM EST
And Mr. Sarkozy, please go away, and stay away! Thanks in advance.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (m<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:54:26 PM EST
Hollande had a windmill on his desk.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 02:55:52 PM EST
Did you give it to him?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 03:03:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Faux News headline: "Hollande conquers France."

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 03:35:10 PM EST
It's called the Netherlands. Oh, wait...

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 03:38:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, that's where Peter Pan and Tinkerbell are from.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 03:38:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It may have been predicted, and it may be a small moment of joy before going back to the crises we face, but this victory is still, almost surprisingly, a moment of immense joy and emotion.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 03:43:59 PM EST
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 04:19:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
so how do you guys think this affects the parliamentary races in june? will hollande get a governing majority, how does sarkozy's defeat augur for the FN or FdG, if at all?

so happy for france, and for europe. i was getting worried seeing everything shift right over the past decade.

by wu ming on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 03:46:44 PM EST
the President's party has won the parliamentary elections that follow. The strength of the Front National, whose political strategy is to break the right, should further favor this.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 03:55:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not particularly the strategy of the FN, but rather the mechanics of the two-round electoral system, that will accentuate the result. Or perhaps it should be said that it's the strategy of the right which will accentuate its own defeat. The FN will maintain its candidates wherever it can, precisely because the right refuses to make deals with them to elect tne better-placed candidate, UMP or FN, in any given electorate.

I predict this will break down over the next five years, making the combined right/FN veryhard to beat nex time around.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 04:34:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Preparing a diary describing the mechanisms; I'll post it tomorrow.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 04:22:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was trying to write a diary "Post-election reflections":

 "Following the elections on May 6, 2012, from the moment of closing of polling stations in France -and while we knew the Greek election results (and also the trend of results in Schleswig-Holstein),- we seized to many (not all!) an euphoric hope: the hope that a change of direction in how to deal with the crisis, especially in the EU, with a new vision on the necessary measures, or, rather, through measures considered necessary by many, given the ineffectiveness of which are being implemented. "

 but I am unable. I do not know if that would be interesting and suggest that some of you do it (?)

by PerCLupi on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 06:05:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Lord Glasman, a senior adviser to Ed Miliband, the Labour leader said that avoiding a reaction from financial markets would make Mr Hollande cautious and push him into the arms of Germany.

"There is very little chance that the financial markets will give Hollande the room to be radical. Mitterrand, elected in the heyday of Thatcher, was forced to abandon policies by the markets," he said.

"That was before the euro, which is locked to political conservatism."

Stupid if true - but it comes from the Telegraph so what are the odds?

by rootless2 on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 04:30:37 PM EST
It depends on what markets are supposed to "want", and that's a question we kick around here without finding a clear response. Do the markets "want" austerity, or do they see that forcing a brutal contraction on a country will not help it reduce its debt and therefore become more creditworthy? The answer may lie in which way speculators feel the wind blows.

Comparing with the first Mitterand government is unconvincing, that government was applying a leftwing programme involving extensive nationalisation of the economy, banks and finance included.  

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 04:47:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The market does not want anything. The question is whether a group of bond investors can ally with the ECB to blackmail the French government.
by rootless2 on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 04:54:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The market does not want anything.

Bingo.

"The market" is stale metaphor used by idiots, fools, hucksters, and propagandists.

(Note the over-lapping Categories.)

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 05:04:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Twitter / @suttonnick: Monday's Daily Mail front ...
Monday's Daily Mail front page - "Au revoir austerity!" #france2012 #tomorrowspaperstoday twitpic.com/9i7bev


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 05:09:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course markets don't really "want". That's how they're generally explained, however.

As to the question whether a group of bond investors can ally with the ECB to blackmail the French government, no doubt yes, if France is isolated. Hollande will probably not push hard against austerity unless he gets broader support from other Eurozone countries. On the other hand, if nothing is done, it will be Spain then Italy then France, so the problem will crop up anyway.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 05:14:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The analysis is not stupid and the situation of subordination of governments to the financial markets is indeed sad.

Now, the fact that Labour doesn't say that the situation is wrong is also sad.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 05:10:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"That was before the euro, which is locked to political conservatism."

I remember during the runup to our 2003 eurozone referendum, when the leftist crazies ranted about this non-stop. Seems they were actually the ones who were right.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 08:53:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I remember the same in Spain, all the way back to the Maastricht Treaty.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 08:55:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just listened a discussion in France24 dealing with the coming euro economics. All the sense was made by the Sarcozy guy, not so much the "socialist" representative. She was very friendly with some "the economist" (the magazine) nutball.
by kjr63 on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 05:40:18 PM EST
I was left with the impression that Hollande will possibly strengthen investment banks etc. similar trivial things.
by kjr63 on Sun May 6th, 2012 at 05:43:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I haven't time to go through a host of German sites this AM but... some points to highlight.

The Spiggle leads the english site with the headline "A New French President Predestined to Disappoint."  


There will be a major celebration on the Place de la Bastille on Sunday evening. But on Monday, all of France will wake up with a hangover. Hard times are in store for the president and the country. During his campaign, Hollande repeatedly evoked France's greatness. But this greatness is now threatened by precisely the economic weakness that Hollande must tackle. He cannot carry on France's tradition of incurring more and more debt, and he won't be able to transform his country without alienating many of the people who have just voted for him. Indeed, Hollande has won the presidency, but his new job is one of the toughest ones in the world.

In one of the articles, can't find it now, Spiggle even used the phrase "there is no alternative." In fact, was the phrase there last night and no longer there this morning?

In the German version this AM Spiggle even says, "On the evening of his victory France's new President seems, tired, weak, and in awe of his enormous new job."

This ties in neatly with their spin of the FDP "new self-confidence" (of losing 6%) and the sobering up of the SDP (after its gains.)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 03:57:03 AM EST
The SZ was quite friendly to Hollande, but only because they assumed he would no do reforms and structural reforms.

>This ties in neatly with their spin of the FDP "new self-confidence" (of losing 6%) and the sobering up of the SDP (after its gains.)<

But is correct. The last state election in Schleswig-Hostein was combined ith the federal election. And so the SPD had like in the federal election a very low result, while the FDP had a abnormally high result. Historically 8.3% in Schleswig-Holstein is quite good and they did beat expectations. And 30.4% is historically still quite bad for the SPD and the expectations were higher.

That said how much the historical results still matter in a six party system is up to debate. And the FDP will leave the state government, while the SPD will get in and if the three party coalition with greens and SSW works, all will be well (wellish?).

by IM on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 04:33:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh yes, another election in Germany. Another grand coalition?

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 07:41:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nevermind, found it in the open thread.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 07:47:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Crazy Horse:
During his campaign, Hollande repeatedly evoked France's greatness.

This is simply untrue.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 04:46:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One candidate ran with the line: "La France forte", and it wasn't Hollande.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 06:22:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
recall


guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 06:31:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Crazy Horse:
In one of the articles, can't find it now, Spiggle even used the phrase "there is no alternative." In fact, was the phrase there last night and no longer there this morning?

Final paragraph of the article posted by epochepoque yesterday:

Millions Left Behind in Boom: What Politicians Have to Do - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Indeed, what's needed is nothing less than a change in the system so radical that it would make the painful Hartz reforms (named after former Volkswagen exectuve Peter Hartz, who advised the Schröder government closely on its ambitious structural reforms) seem like cosmetic surgery by comparison. Hilmar Schneider, director of labor market policy at the Bonn-based Institute for the Study of Labor (IZA) and one of Germany's best-known employment experts, agrees. He notes that there is no alternative to making the working world more flexible, adding: "The days of small changes are over."
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 05:04:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What Everybody Is Getting Wrong About The New President Of France  Business Insider

So people seem tthink that Hollande is living in some fantasy world, where he'll be able to conjure cash out of thin air, and ignore the bond market's demands for cuts. This is the wrong way to think about it, and people shouldn't be so alarmed.

The fact of the matter is that there's no example in Europe, yet, where the bond market has rewarded austerity. Take Spain: It recently announced fairly severe reform plans, and yields just shot higher. So there's really no reason to care much about French domestic policy at this point.

What matters in the Eurozone is Eurozone politics and ECB policy. So for example, what has worked (to some extent) have been the ECB's 3-year LTROs, which have certainly calmed the banking system down. And what might work is a move towards greater establishment of transfers, fiscal union, and Eurobonds. And on that stuff, Hollande is on the right side.

So forget his domestic policies. They're not at the heart of the matter, and there's no reason to think that his course will make a huge difference one way or another. Just focus on Hollande as a force to breakup the "Merkozy" establishment, and perhaps take Europe away from the current destructure policies, which have exacerbated the debt crisis, while also further pushing countries deeper into recession.



As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon May 7th, 2012 at 10:33:41 AM EST


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