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Wednesday Open Thread

by Jerome a Paris Wed May 9th, 2012 at 12:25:02 PM EST

Any thing inspiring you today?


Display:
Nothing yet, it's warmed up but very grey and damp. forecast is better tomorrow so bean frames postponed till then

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 12:38:29 PM EST
A backlash against austerity in Europe, a move toward greater state control in Latin America, a change in leadership at the World Bank: this might seem slender evidence for a Copernican revolution in economics. The evidence for overturning orthodoxy might even have seemed stronger in 1999, when the Asian financial crisis...  Moreover, a number of leaders like Barack Obama are styling themselves as Tyco Brahe, the Danish astronomer who attempted to combine both Ptolemy and Copernicus into an untenable geo-heliocentric system. These modern-day Brahes want to preserve the Washington consensus with only a few modifications.


"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 12:38:49 PM EST
Yes, an excellent way of putting it. Tyco Brahe, 3rd way astroomer

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 01:05:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That does Tycho a disservice.

Tycho was principally concerned with making accurate measurements and producing almanacs. (And indeed Kepler used Tycho's data to postulate his three laws.)

That Tycho came out in support of the Ptolemaic picture had to do with him underestimating the distance to the fixed stars - an error that even much later scientists who really should have known better have also committed. When he used his state of the art measurements to look for the parallax and failed to find it, he took it, quite reasonably, as a falsification of the Copernican picture.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:14:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If we're living with Tycho, we're waiting for Kepler.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 01:08:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If we're eating for Kepler, we're waiting for Einstein.
by asdf on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 02:41:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
WAITING for Kepler.

Cripes I hate this automatic spell fixing stuff...

by asdf on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 02:41:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Amusing typo, tho'

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:44:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Baby steps...

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 04:07:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In a book by a descendant of Tycho, I learned Indo-European linguistic.
by PerCLupi on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 01:33:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Home Owners Across the Nation Sue All Bank Servicers and Their Offshore Havens

NEW YORK, NY, Apr 23, 2012 (MARKETWIRE via COMTEX) -- In a lawsuit alleged to involve the largest money laundering network in United States history, Spire Law Group, LLP -- on behalf of home owners across the Country -- has filed a mass tort action in the Supreme Court of New York, County of Kings. Home owners across the country have sued every major bank servicer and their subsidiaries -- formed in countries known as havens for money laundering such as the Cayman Islands, the Isle of Man, Luxembourg and Malaysia -- alleging that while the Obama Administration was publicly encouraging loan modifications for home owners, it was privately ratifying the formation of these shell companies in violation of the United States Patriot Act, and State and Federal law. The case further alleges that through these obscure foreign companies, Bank of America, J.P. Morgan, Wells Fargo Bank, Citibank, Citigroup, One West Bank, and numerous other federally chartered banks stole hundreds of millions of dollars of home owners' money during the last decade and then laundered it through offshore companies. The complaint, Index No. 500827, was filed by Spire Law Group, LLP, and several of the Firm's affiliates and partners across the United States.

Far from being ambiguous, this is a complaint that "names names." Indeed, the lawsuit identifies specific companies and the offshore countries used in this enormous money laundering scheme. Federally Chartered Banks' theft of money and their utilization of offshore tax haven subsidiaries represent potential FDIC violations, violations of New York law, and countless other legal wrongdoings under state and federal law.

"The laundering of trillions of dollars of U.S. taxpayer money -- and the wrongful taking of the homes of those taxpayers -- was known by the Administration and expressly supported by it. Evidence uncovered by the plaintiffs revealed that the Administration ignored its own agencies' reports -- and reports from the Department of Homeland Security -- about this situation, dating as far back as 2010. Worse, the Administration purported to endorse a 'national bank settlement' without disclosing or having any public discourse whatsoever about the thousands of foreign tax havens now wholly owned by our nation's banks. Fortunately, no home owner is bound to enter into this fraudulent bank settlement," stated Eric J. Wittenberg of Columbus, Ohio -- a noted trial lawyer, author and student of US history -- on behalf of plaintiffs in the case.

The suing home owners reveal how deeply they were defrauded by bank and governmental corruption -- and are suing for conversion, larceny, fraud, and for violations of other provisions of New York state law committed by these financial institutions and their offshore counterparts.


I had missed this, but a friend forwarded it to me today. In-Spire-ing as is the fact that is filled in a New York State Court.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 01:17:28 PM EST
I'm ure they'll easily  swat this down, I'm sure that it's written somewhere in the Constitution that thou shalt not interfere with the profiteering of banksters

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 01:31:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At the time the Constitution was written there were already in existence thirteen different sets of property and real estate law from the thirteen different colonies - some going back 200 years. That was likely part of the reason for including the Tenth Amendment in the Bill of Rights. "Powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Additionally, the Seventh Amendment regarding civil cases forbids re-examination of facts found in jury trials "in any Court of the United States, than according to common law." But what are mere technicalities like the Constitution and Bill of Rights compared to the interests of powerful corporations who are major political contributors? We will see.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 01:48:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Additionally, the U.S. Constitution was written before the industrial revolution. Before corporations needed to be considered as people...
by asdf on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 02:44:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Any thing inspiring you today?

-Yes: Publilius Syrus.

 "Quod quisque possit, nisi tentando nesciat"
 That of which one is able, one can only know if one tries it.

by PerCLupi on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 01:50:05 PM EST
Quietly and hardly noticed, Steve McIntyre, the antagonist of the climate scientists at Real Climate, is killing yet another crucial hockeystick - and may be killing off a scientific career in the process. Similarly, implications for already less and less vaunted paleotemperature, particularly dendrochronology, studies could be quite severe.

It was in the works since 2009, but this could probably end up as the killing stroke.

A tiresome battle, though, and it won't change much on our current knowledge of climate change - although it will cloud attempts to compare the current temperature increase with similar episodes in recent history.

by Nomad on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 01:51:08 PM EST
The relevant graph:

by Nomad on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 01:56:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It never occured to me they were creating a "continuous" record by mixing and matching from all over the place. That's obviously daft.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 02:25:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just as daft as the way that the cosmological distance scale is constructed.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 02:31:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, its quite obvious to me that local clmate is more significant in growth rates than global climate and you cannot add them end to end and create meaningful data.

In space nobody can hear you scream there is no climate to affect red shift (unless you believe in tired light)

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 02:34:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
See Cosmic distance ladder. Redshift is just the last rung of a long ladder that starts with parallax.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 02:40:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not daft per se - building geological time series relies on the use of many data points and finding sufficient overlap. That's also the case for records that go back millions of years, not "just" a few hundred years.

The problem is twofold: what are the criteria for some data to be used ignore other datapoints and, more important, does the final result helps you to say something relevant?

In this study, the answer on the latter is moving to "No".

by Nomad on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 02:46:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
IPCC is using statistical-mechanics methods, procedures, and intellectual tools to Model a Complex dynamic system subject to sensitivity to initial conditions, among other things.

You can't do that.

Take it back, you can if you don't care if your Model is congruent to the phenomena under analysis.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 02:29:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Please expand.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 02:38:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Property derived from non-linearity means Future Behavior of a Complex Adaptive System is not necessarily predicated on Past Behavior.

We can see this, if we bother to get our heads outta our Probability Charts, in/with/using:

  1.  Emergent Behavior under iteration

  2.  Thom's Catastrophes

  3.  Conway's Plane of Surreal Numbers (If I'm reading him accurately)

  4.  The Paradox of the Heap (and others) where small iterative changes leads to Qualitative Changes under Fuzzy Ascription.

(etc. etc. etc.)

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:04:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Put simply, a complex adaptive system is not a stationary system.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:17:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not quite exact since everything in this Universe is always moving along the Time axis.



Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:42:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I said stationary, not static.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 04:15:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jeff Masters | Connecting the dots between climate change and extreme weather:

[Emphasis Added]

Connecting the dots between human-caused climate change and extreme weather events is fraught with difficulty and uncertainty. One the one hand, the underlying physics is clear--the huge amounts of heat-trapping gases like carbon dioxide humans have pumped into the atmosphere must be already causing significant changes to the weather. But the weather has huge natural variations on its own, without climate change. So, communicators of the links between climate change and extreme weather need to emphasize how climate change shifts the odds. We've loaded the dice towards some types of extreme weather events, by heating the atmosphere to add more heat and moisture. This can bring more extreme weather events like heat waves, heavy downpours, and intense droughts. What's more, the added heat and moisture can change atmospheric circulation patterns, causing meanders in the jet stream capable of bringing longer-lasting periods of extreme weather. As I wrote in my post this January, Where is the climate headed?, "The natural weather rhythms I've grown to used to during my 30 years as a meteorologist have become significantly disrupted over the past few years. Many of Earth's major atmospheric circulation patterns have seen significant shifts and unprecedented behavior; new patterns that were unknown have emerged, and extreme weather events were incredibly intense and numerous during 2010 - 2011.

Long term weather prediction using Global Warming is more accurate than weather prediction without Global Warming.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 02:44:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps there is an 'invisible hockey stick' swinging towards our head just now.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:13:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's "invisible" only if the observer keeps eyes shut and brain in neutral.

Sticking fingers in ears and screaming, "LA! LA! LA!  I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" also helps.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 06:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I listened to an interview with Steve Coll, the author of the book A Private Empire, ExxonMobil and American Power. In the book he describes the vigorous effort ExxonMobil funded to produce pseudo-scientific studies to muddy the water on AGW science under CEO Lee R. Raymond. When the current chairman, Rex W. Tillerson, took over in January, 2006 he stopped that effort out of fear of being held liable for damages due to systematicly misleading the public as to dangers, as happened to American Tobacco over a similar practice wrt the dangers of tobacco smoking. They never admitted to having misled the public but have acknowledged the existence of Global Warming. But the poison they purchased is still in the body politic.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 07:17:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Note that geologists who studied before this whole thing before it became politicized had already absorbed the AGW model...now we are seeing an argument driven entirely by politicians who couldn't get into freshman geology...
by asdf on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:10:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't follow American politicians' commentary on climate change, because it generally ends up as The Stupid (Not that Dutch politicians are any better).

What's the argument they're using?

by Nomad on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 04:48:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
God will provide.
by asdf on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 01:36:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
More of The Stupid then. Politicians shouldn't get involved in 'saving the climate' anyway.
by Nomad on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 02:02:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Beware the creeping cracks of bias : Nature News & Comment

Alarming cracks are starting to penetrate deep into the scientific edifice. They threaten the status of science and its value to society. And they cannot be blamed on the usual suspects -- inadequate funding, misconduct, political interference, an illiterate public. Their cause is bias, and the threat they pose goes to the heart of research.

Bias is an inescapable element of research, especially in fields such as biomedicine that strive to isolate cause-effect relations in complex systems in which relevant variables and phenomena can never be fully identified or characterized. Yet if biases were random, then multiple studies ought to converge on truth. Evidence is mounting that biases are not random. A Comment in Nature in March reported that researchers at Amgen were able to confirm the results of only six of 53 'landmark studies' in preclinical cancer research (C. G. Begley & L. M. Ellis Nature 483, 531-533; 2012). For more than a decade, and with increasing frequency, scientists and journalists have pointed out similar problems.

Early signs of trouble were appearing by the mid-1990s, when researchers began to document systematic positive bias in clinical trials funded by the pharmaceutical industry. Initially these biases seemed easy to address, and in some ways they offered psychological comfort. The problem, after all, was not with science, but with the poison of the profit motive. It could be countered with strict requirements to disclose conflicts of interest and to report all clinical trials.

Yet closer examination showed that the trouble ran deeper. Science's internal controls on bias were failing, and bias and error were trending in the same direction -- towards the pervasive over-selection and over-reporting of false positive results. The problem was most provocatively asserted in a now-famous 2005 paper by John Ioannidis, currently at Stanford University in California: 'Why Most Published Research Findings Are False' (J. P. A. Ioannidis PLoS Med. 2, e124; 2005). Evidence of systematic positive bias was turning up in research ranging from basic to clinical, and on subjects ranging from genetic disease markers to testing of traditional Chinese medical practices.

by Nomad on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 05:25:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From Richard Feynman's Cargo Cult Science lecture (1974)
Now it behooves me, of course, to tell you what they're missing. But it would be just about as difficult to explain to the South Sea Islanders how they have to arrange things so that they get some wealth in their system. It is not something simple like telling them how to improve the shapes of the earphones. But there is one feature I notice that is generally missing in cargo cult science. That is the idea that we all hope you have learned in studying science in school--we never explicitly say what this is, but just hope that you catch on by all the examples of scientific investigation. It is interesting, therefore, to bring it out now and speak of it explicitly. It's a kind of scientific integrity, a principle of scientific thought that corresponds to a kind of utter honesty--a kind of leaning over backwards. For example, if you're doing an experiment, you should report everything that you think might make it invalid--not only what you think is right about it: other causes that could possibly explain your results; and things you thought of that you've eliminated by some other experiment, and how they worked--to make sure the other fellow can tell they have been eliminated.
...
One example of the principle is this: If you've made up your mind to test a theory, or you want to explain some idea, you should always decide to publish it whichever way it comes out. If we only publish results of a certain kind, we can make the argument look good. We must publish both kinds of results.
In other words, it's important to publish negative results. But the problem nowadays is that not only authors won't attempt to publish negative results, it's that they probably do so out of the knowledge that journals are likely to reject negative results. And this has nothing to do with the additional problem of dishonest research funders insisting that results contrary to their strategic goals are left unpublished.
I say that's also important in giving certain types of government advice. Supposing a senator asked you for advice about whether drilling a hole should be done in his state; and you decide it would be better in some other state. If you don't publish such a result, it seems to me you're not giving scientific advice. You're being used. If your answer happens to come out in the direction the government or the politicians like, they can use it as an argument in their favor; if it comes out the other way, they don't publish it at all. That's not giving scientific advice.
Feynmann then talks about the problem of not attempting to replicate other people's published research. The fallacy that all worthwhile research is novel research because only new research will be published. Of course, if you don't attempt to replicate published research you may never discover that a particular piece of published research was flawed.
Nowadays there's a certain danger of the same thing happening, even in the famous (?) field of physics. I was shocked to hear of an experiment done at the big accelerator at the National Accelerator Laboratory, where a person used deuterium. In order to compare his heavy hydrogen results to what might happen with light hydrogen" he had to use data from someone else's experiment on light hydrogen, which was done on different apparatus. When asked why, he said it was because he couldn't get time on the program (because there's so little time and it's such expensive apparatus) to do the experiment with light hydrogen on this apparatus because there wouldn't be any new result. And so the men in charge of programs at NAL are so anxious for new results, in order to get more money to keep the thing going for public relations purposes, they are destroying--possibly--the value of the experiments themselves, which is the whole purpose of the thing. It is often hard for the experimenters there to complete their work as their scientific integrity demands.
...
This man also speaks about a new institution, in a talk in which he was resigning as Director of the Institute of Parapsychology. And, in telling people what to do next, he says that one of the things they have to do is be sure they only train students who have shown their ability to get PSI results to an acceptable extent-- not to waste their time on those ambitious and interested students who get only chance results. It is very dangerous to have such a policy in teaching--to teach students only how to get certain results, rather than how to do an experiment with scientific integrity.
Nearly 30 years later, things have only gotten worse along the trends that Feynman was reporting anecdotically.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 05:40:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
These two dudes basically tried to go straight from basic science studies to drug development. That skips over at least two steps of the process.

That their attempts fail a lot is... not surprising, shall we say.

Orac has a takedown here.

And, unsurprisingly given the venue of publication, they don't mention that this is mainly a problem with top-tier journals who are extremely focused on novelty. Second-tier journals is where most of the replication (or not) actually happens.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 05:41:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But after taking down Vox's article with some personal spite, Orac then sums up:

Preclinical research has a problem, but that doesn't mean religion is better : Respectful Insolence

Still, the problems with Begley and Ellis' article notwithstanding, they do provide useful information and identify what appears to be a serious problem. The problem is not so much that so few basic science discoveries end up as drugs, courtesy of Amgen or one of its big pharma competitors. Rather, it's the sloppiness that is too common in the scientific literature, coupled with publication bias, investigator biases, and the proliferation of screening experiments done to identify genomic targets and small molecules with biological effects that has turned into the proverbial fire hose of data, often many terrabytes per screen.

Emphasis mine.

Wasn't this the whole point of the Nature commentary?! Grief.

by Nomad on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 02:39:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, the point of the Nature article was to whine about basic research being basic - as in not immediately applicable to money-making endeavors in the private sector. To that end they took an otherwise credible critique of journal culture and exaggerated it to the point of incredibility.

The take-home point they wanted to make is "this is really bad." The honest assessment is "we can do better."

Those statements are different in kind, not merely in scope.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun May 13th, 2012 at 12:39:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Here is the response to McIntyre's accusations of scientific fraud.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2012/05/yamalian-yawns/#more-11699

by asdf on Sat May 12th, 2012 at 07:10:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A diplomatic headache for unmarried Hollande? - FRANCE - FRANCE 24

French President-elect François Hollande is not the marrying type.

But as he prepares to take office heFrançois Hollande is the first French president-elect to enter office unmarried and living with his partner. If he chooses to remain unmarried, this would demonstrate a fundamental change in the institution of the French presidency.

French President-elect François Hollande is not the marrying type.

But as he prepares to take office he  will come under pressure to formalise his relationship with his partner Valerie Trierweiler.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 01:56:06 PM EST
The French won't demand it. The rest of the world will have to get used to it. Probably half of the long term relationships in France are ouside the formal institution of marriage.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 02:15:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As Bill Maher said 5 years ago "The French are adults, get used to it"



keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 02:32:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Michele Bachmann claims Swiss citizenship - Tim Mak - POLITICO.com
Rep. Michele Bachmann is now officially a Swiss miss.

Bachmann (R-Minn.) recently became a citizen of Switzerland, making her eligible to run for office in the tiny European nation, according to a Swiss TV report Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76072.html#ixzz1uOvDv1SS

Arthur Honegger, a reporter for public broadcaster Schweizer Fernsehen, told POLITICO the Swiss consulate in Chicago has confirmed that the former Republican presidential candidate became a citizen March 19.

(PHOTOS: Michele Bachmann)

The Swiss consulate in Chicago covers the state of Minnesota, which Bachmann represents.

Marcus Bachmann, the congresswoman's husband since 1978, reportedly was eligible for Swiss citizenship due to his parents' nationality -- but only registered it with the Swiss government Feb. 15. Once the process was finalized on March 19, Michele automatically became a citizen as well, according to Honegger.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:06:02 PM EST
Darn, ya beat me !!

Does she know they have state healthcare and recognise gay partnerships ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:16:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, we do not have state healthcare. It is mandated private insurance heavely controlled and in some cases subsidized.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:25:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obamacare!

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:30:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, it's affortable for most.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:38:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Each Swiss citizen belongs specifically to a canton, and Bachmann's is the canton of Thurgau in Northeast Switzerland.
67% of Thurgau voted against women's suffrage in the 1971 referendum. She should fit right in.....
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:41:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Swiss headline
Die erzkonservative Michele Bachmann ist seit zwei Wochen Schweizer Bürgerin. Schuld daran ist ihr Mann.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 04:01:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Really not trying to turn this into a dental diary, just noting that my current course of treatment is why I won't be around much in the next week. Sure have enjoyed the bit of lurking I've been able to do, though.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:14:55 PM EST
Daily Kos: President Obama to ABC News: 'Same-sex marriage should be legal'
The video does not yet appear to be live (update: see top of post) at this link on the ABC News site, but the text on the page read: "Obama: 'Same-Sex Marriage Should be Legal'" with a blurb reading "President says his position on marriage has evolved." George Stephanopoulos and Diane Sawyer are apparently going to interrupt regular ABC programming at 3PM for the announcement.


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:33:34 PM EST
Twitter / @drgrist: Keep firing up the white g ...
Keep firing up the white geezers, y'all! RT @gilbertjasono: Fox Nation is not taking this news well at all: yfrog.com/kkov6rp


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:33:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wish I could have seen Bill more-catholic-than-the-pope Donohue's face when he heard.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 03:48:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The tub of shit doesn't care.  It's a fundraiser for him.

I just now saw the news on this.  I was surprised.  I figured Obama would wait until after the election to decide he was for it.

C'mon, he's a Democratic professor from Chicago who doesn't seem to go to church anymore.  There was never really any doubt in my mind that he supported same-sex marriage.  It was just a question of whether he'd ever have the stones to say so.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 04:23:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oddly, I always thought it was the other way around. He was quite socially conservative who did't care about gay issues so long as they didn't intrude on his bubble.

But he couldn't wrap his head around two guys being "married", that just seemed wrong to him

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 04:30:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that was more, "This economic meltdown thing is my ticket to the White House, so let's not talk about gay marriage."

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 04:37:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Before 2008 yea, but after it that was much less important.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 04:44:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It was in the sense that I suspect most of his political advisers were telling him to avoid it to try to maintain the image that he was focused on the economy every minute.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 04:55:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...adding: I'm not saying you're obviously wrong.  I suppose he may have had a genuine change of mind on the issue.  But when I think about the kind of people who typically sincerely oppose same-sex marriage, the Obamas are not what comes to mind.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 06:39:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspect, from his life experience, he knew that gay marriage was the right thing to do, but that taking that position publicly was a calculation dependent on how it would affect his popularity and politics. And I think those are legitimate considerations, even if they do not lead to a flattering portrait. I also think that the gays in the military issue was more important.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 07:29:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
DADT and openly supporting gay marriage sort of go hand-in-hand.  It's hard for people to look at others putting their lives on the line and say, "No, you don't get to marry."

And having the president in favor of it lends a kind of inevitability to it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 07:42:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think  it may have been a concious strategy.  Introduce one, let people get used to the fact the sky hasn't fallen in, expose the opponents  as living outside the real world, then drop the more difficukt one in,  with the ability to argue from the point of "why are you crying wolf against this"

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 08:46:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Minimum deterrence and moralityThe War Room
I still believe that the former Vice President is a decent man and a patriot, despite what his opponents say. But when you've managed to freak out Dick Cheney with a war plan that is too wantonly violent, you've probably crossed a line somewhere.


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 07:21:07 PM EST
I had not realize that Augustine of Hippo, aka St. Augustine, had written on 'The Ethics of Nuclear Operations', but there it is at Catholic Online.  :-)

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 07:34:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Granted, I'm not a general or a nuclear physicist -- and I didn't even stay in a Holiday Inn last night -- but I would think 300 nukes would be enough to hit back at just about any group of countries one could possibly need to hit back at.  How many nukes would it take to pretty much wipe out -- rather than merely make inhospitable -- every Russian city of any consequence?  Ten?

I think having enough to pretty much wipe out mankind is quite enough.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 08:05:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
640 kiloton should be enough for anybody.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 01:41:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree with all of that except the part of about Cheney being good.  Pretending as though preserving civilian life in cities is of great importance in that situation is ridiculous and, I think, a sign that Dunn doesn't appreciate the scenario he's envisioning.

It's not an "Oh, we have to kill as few people as possible so we can move on when it's over" thing.  It's an "I'm going to try to kill all of them and hope people in Rolla live long enough to keep the country going" thing.

If it doesn't justify that, it doesn't justify launching nukes.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed May 9th, 2012 at 08:54:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rolla, Missouri? It does have the Missouri University of Science and Technology, which has a program in explosives technology. If Rolla is going to survive we can get there in three hours by car and have friends with a farm about 15 miles north. :-)

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu May 10th, 2012 at 12:12:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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