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Thursday Open Thread

by afew Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 12:00:07 PM EST

Can I haz an ice-cool drink?


Display:
But I'm so lucky it's cooler than in the southern parts of the US.

For example.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 12:01:49 PM EST
We'll take any excess sunshine going.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 01:08:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was out working on my sunshade assembly at 7:00AM due to predicted heat today. I came in for lunch at about 11:45, after watering my garden, and just went back out about 15 minutes ago. I just came back in looking for a nail container and checked the temperature. It is 107F or 41.67C. Even though it is in the shade and I have a fan, that is just too hot. I'll have to wait till after 6 PM to try again. Meanwhile, my garden has been surviving on three to four waterings a day. I probably should remove any tomato flowers that haven't started to fruit already, though I do have some pea sized tomatoes on some plants. I may also have to set up my halogen lamps and work at night. Guess I could try sleeping from one to four. An Arkansas siesta.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 02:04:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is a Labour of Hercules. You're the Heroic Gardener, ARG.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 03:23:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Mostly because my body is so lame, but also because, from long habit, I overdo everything. But my back is getting better. I have learned not to take a single step if I can ride instead and to do most work seated. My lawn tractor is now my personal mobility device. And a back brace has done wonders.  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 07:23:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was just looking forward to the bike ride home

But then I remembered that I'm driving to Saint Etienne (rather grueling in the traffic and temperatures) to see Younger Daughter playing the bass at her music school's end-of-year concert. That sounds like an ordeal too but it's actually a hell of a lot of fun, I don't get to rock concerts much, and it makes me feel young... especially since most of the songs they play are old standards from my youth.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 12:06:27 PM EST
The meltdown on Twitter has been glorious.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 12:25:07 PM EST
Yeah, lots of folks now planning to move to Canada to avoid socialist health care systems.
by asdf on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 01:08:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sad but true. Good thing would be that the average IQ in the USA would improve considerably.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 12:01:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Excerpts?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 01:38:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can't post excerpts from my phone, unfortunately.

I wasn't terribly surprised by the ruling.  My guess was it'd be 6-3 to uphold the law.  It wound up being 5-4 to uphold.

The real surprise was John Roberts voting with the 4 liberals and Kennedy going with the 3 conservatives.  I don't think many imagined you'd get Roberts to uphold without getting Kennedy.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 01:48:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess I read too much kos cos I was fully expecting it to be damaged in some way. In fact, the talk there was largely about how rejection would galvanise support for Obama.

Sounds like this will be good for John McCain

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 02:35:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Orange place is full of drama queens though, as you know.  There was a diarist at the top of the rec list this morning who got the prediction basically right though (law upheld, Roberts opinion, mandate auhorized under Congress's power to tax and spend, etc), if I remember correctly.

Like I said, I didn't know how this would shake out.  My gut feeling was 6-3 upheld, but 5-4 overturned wouldn't have shocked me.  5-4 with the mandate chucked out wouldn't have shocked me either.

Roberts switching sides was only surprising due to Kennedy going the opposite way.  As I've said in the past, my impression of Roberts is that he's obviously quite conservative, but occasionally fairly thoughtful.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:51:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jeffrey Toobin's New Yorker article Money Unlimited is a excellent review of what went down with Citizens United, but fell short on illuminating Robert's perspective.  Unlike the other four rightwingers, his legacy trumps his politics.  While he may have fully endorsed the CU decision, it wasn't his inclination to go anywhere near that far.  And he may be getting bored with the SCOTUS power resting with Kennedy instead of himself.  

Will have to wait and see if the rejection of the commerce clause argument is a poison pill.    

by Marie2 on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 10:42:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...adding: And it was fun this morning.  I got to get one on all the lawyers who were sure either the mandate at least would be struck down or the whole law would go.  I told them to not be shocked if Roberts voted to uphold.

So that was a nice 15 minutes of bragging. :)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:52:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
in two ways from a political standpoint. First, they removed the penalty (fine), which effectively neuters the 'mandate' aspect. Takes a good deal of the steam out of the Tea Party's teapot.

Second, it is - and will be - considered an Obama victory. Part of the perception of many relatively non-partisan voters here is that Obama does not know how to govern, based on lack of legislative progress, plus all of the ineffective half-measures. This will change that perception, and it appears that the mass media is already pushing that line.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm growing convinced that banks are intent on shoveling on the contradictions until capitalism collapses.

So I'm looking at buying a house.  I looked at housing in the town that I'm going to be working in, and I came to the conclusion that I could pay three years of mortgage for what one year of rent would cost me. Luckily, housing can be had for dirt cheap where I'm going to be working.

The place I'm looking at is $10,000.  Mind you this is a standing house in decent condition. I was sort of confused, because the realtor said some something about   a cash deal.

So I went in to try to get a loan at my bank. Turns out that most US banks won't do a home mortgage for less than $30,000.  Which is what the cash deal that the realtor mentioned was about.  It strikes me as some sort of crazy that there are homeless people and people-less homes, but the two can't be brought together banks aren't willing to write loans.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 01:27:14 PM EST
Sounds like a market niche for credit unions or community development banks.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 01:31:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, the guy at the bank told me to look at a credit union or local bank.

I wonder if this is an issue in Europe too?  

Pamplona in 2003 was sort of pricey, but even then I remember walking past realtors with signs for very low price fincas in the windows.

Like you've said, this seems like a great niche for smaller community banks to specialize in.  I could also see the community organizing that's going on with the indignados and Occupy working to create a revolving loan fund to help to clear sales at the extreme low end.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 01:42:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My nephew says that in spain current seeling prices are about 30% - 40% of asking price.

so you won't see giveaway prices, but reality is a lot more generous

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 02:37:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you talking about the British expat home market?

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:41:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You might be able to get a personal loan for that.  The interest rate would be a little higher.

Echoing Miguel, probably couldn't hurt to see if the local community development authority (or city or county) has programs.  The feds may have grants and special loans as well.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 01:37:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ET should make an LLC and sell him a mortgage.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 01:41:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The banker (Chase) said that most of the bigs no longer do personal property loans for homes.  They used to pre 2008, but not since. I'm extremely fortunate in that I have a parent who I think I can talk into taking a line of credit out against their paid off home.  Which is great for me, but I can't help but think that there's a real opportunity for "social entrepreneurship" here.  Normally that phrase makes me want to gag. But, imagine the good that a micro-financing program like Kiva, but for low cost homes, could do.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 01:50:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't help but think that there's a real opportunity for "social entrepreneurship" here.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 02:13:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One of my platform planks is now a WA State Bank, similar to the one in North Dakota (only one in the US.) A fellow Dem, Rep. Bob Hasegawa, got through several hoops in the last session for a WA State Investment Trust, which is essentially a State Bank.

The Trust would not give conventional mortgages, but, as designed, would be involved in backing 'affordable housing'. It would essentially become a revolving loan fund for this type of housing, plus manufacturing and agricultural support.

Currently, there are some US Dept. of Agriculture programs in rural (defined broadly) areas, but there are income limits. The 502 program is one such - quite attractive, but defined very narrowly. My guess is that MfM's income would exceed their limit.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 02:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Currently, there are some US Dept. of Agriculture programs in rural (defined broadly) areas, but there are income limits. The 502 program is one such - quite attractive, but defined very narrowly. My guess is that MfM's income would exceed their limit.

I've had people point me to programs here in Ohio.  I'm actually well below their income limits. (That's a whole other discussion.)  Nonetheless, I think that I'm probably going to try to get a line of credit against a family member's house. That way I can do a cash deal and have access to cash for minor upgrades. I'll probably change out all the outlets/light fixtures and do some landscaping.  

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:40:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You can grow good tomatoes in Ohio.

paul spencer
by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 06:01:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not in Arkansas...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 03:29:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Here things are considerably more expensive, but that may well not be the case in many other small Arkansas towns.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 07:28:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A BANK.  

You went to a fucking BANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 04:39:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The price range sounds like Detroit.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 05:45:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reuters: Swiss, Polish central banks to fight market strain via swaps
The two central banks do not anticipate that this agreement, which has been concluded as a precautionary measure, will need to be called upon," the Swiss National Bank said.
Right
About 50 percent of all home mortgage loans in Poland were in francs, according to official data from late last year.
[Drew's WHEEEEE™ Technology]
The Polish government has also issued bonds denominated in Swiss francs, raising foreign demand for francs.
<facepalm>

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 01:45:57 PM EST
Is this a really bad Polish joke?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 02:12:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This makes no sense
The Swiss National Bank has previously concluded swap deals with other central banks to ensure banks abroad have access to francs, which can become harder to obtain as investors seek the currency as a safe haven in financial or geopolitical crises and as banks become more wary of lending to each other.
The Swiss Central Bank is defending an upper bound to the Franc's exchange rate, which basically implies that they are willing to sell CHF at 1.20 EUR to anyone who asks. Therefore, Swiss Francs can't have become much harder to obtain than they were before.
As investors chased francs as a haven from the euro zone debt crisis, the SNB set a cap of 1.20 per euro on its currency last September 6 to help keep exporters and tourism competitive and to avert recession.

The franc had shot up nearly 20 percent against the euro within the space of just a few months, nearly reaching parity in early August.



If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 04:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reuters: NY Fed says FX swaps with foreign cenbanks at $11.542 bln
The European Central Bank was the only central bank to tap the swap facility, the New York Fed said on Thursday, which included $9.942 billion in liquidity at 84 days and 0.67 percent and $1.6 billion at 7 days with a rate of 0.66 percent.

The Federal Reserve has established swap arrangements with the Bank of Canada, the Bank of England, the European Central Bank, the Swiss National Bank and the Bank of Japan in an effort to respond to the emergence of strains in short-term funding markets in Europe. cover the ECB's ass by making it look all central banks need extra USD liquidity



If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 05:05:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From the shouting I just heard from the street, I presume that Italy just scored a goal...
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:12:29 PM EST
Merkel must be getting ready to strangle Monti in Brussels.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:21:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
More shouting. Doesn't sound good for Germany.....
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:24:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
@FGoria
#Bailoutelli‬ rules RT @TheStalwart: MERKEL CANCELS SUMMIT PRESS CONFERENCE TONIGHT -- Bloomberg


If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:28:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Very nice goals both. Very nice game, in fact - Germany dominates, has many opportunities, but does not score. Italy plays well, and scores.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:39:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Italy has abandoned catenaccio which makes it truly fearsome.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:40:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Excellent save by Buffon on a dangerous free kick.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 04:07:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Second goal by Ballottelli for Italy, and he gets carded for taking his shirt off.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:24:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Who is this 'Esvenstaiger' that the Spanish TV commentators keep talking about?

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:59:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh !!

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 04:48:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's Sven Stegger in FR commentator-speak.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 03:37:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
with a (too) late penalty for Germany. It could easily have been 3-0 or 4-0 as Italy missed 2 or 3 unmissable opportunities, and continued to play really well, but the score does reflect Germany's efforts and the overall game.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 04:45:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We thought it was generous for Germany to get one goal; it was a penalty but a harsh one.

but it would have been an injustice if theyd equalised. Italy shocked me as I didn't know they could play like that, I genuinely thought Germany would walk it and was quite surprised at what happened.

But I think the germans were just as surprised, they genuinely looked as if they didn't quite believe it, as if it was only a mater of time and it was only in the last 10 minutes when they actually realised they could lose.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 04:52:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Much as I have knocked Italy in the past, I admire this team. No more psychodrama tactics, diving, writhing in agony. No more single-minded catenaccio. Excellent attacking movements, Pirlo setting up superb plays.

Spain's defence is likely to be more solid than Germany's, though.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 03:42:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]


If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:33:41 PM EST
CNN botches Obamacare ruling in epic error | Boston Herald
Somebody call a doctor, the folks at CNN must be having a heart attack after they goofed and declared Obamacare was dead.

The red-faced cable channel had to quickly post a correction, but it was too late. The social media cat, so to speak, was out of the bag and the embarrassing error was whipping around the web. As the nation now knows, the U.S. Supreme Court actually upheld the constitutionality of Obamacare today.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 03:47:16 PM EST
One-track media mind.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 03:45:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Inside the Vatican bank: silence, secrets and Latin cash machines | The Guardian
After the briefing, we were directed along a corridor to a winding staircase that led down though the tower and eventually delivered us into a big, circular hall. Ranged across one side were the tellers' positions. Light entered the room through high, broad windows let into the massively thick walls of the former jail.

At the bottom of a flight of stairs at the entrance was an ATM. In Latin, the opening screen announced it was available for a cash withdrawal - a "deductio ex pecunia".

[...]

At one point during his presentation, he clapped his hand to his mouth after saying nuns could not open accounts "because they have taken vows of chastity". Looking just like a choirboy heard using rude words in the vestry, he said: "I meant 'poverty'."

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 04:01:20 PM EST
Reading my closing documents from the law firm handling the house transaction tomorrow, I'm struck by the incredible number of mistakes I've caught and had to direct them to.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 05:07:43 PM EST
Oh, found another.

Lawyers really should not be allowed to do math.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 05:48:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In France you get to be a lawyer (or journalist) because you suck at math and can't get into the good universities (which only take good math students), which is the excuse I usually use, but yes, I'm always amazed by how bad lawyers can be at maths and logic (and yet, legal language is very much logical i.e. mathematical) and it's often easy to out legalese them.

Wind power
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 06:17:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One of my colleagues once asked my to tell her what 25% of $100,000 was.

My boss (also an economist) began snort-laughing.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 06:54:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lawyers get wives like this.

by das monde on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 10:30:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I couldn't watch the whole thing, just too depressing. And who would want to be married to someone that stupid? I would never feel safe. But I also see the funny underneath all the layers of horrifying.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 12:15:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My reaction to that video is what has she done to deserve a husband that will post this on youtube.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 01:27:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you ever get close to a human and human behaviour...
Along with millions of views, the video has racked up a lot of comments, with many wondering whether the husband is in hot water with his spouse.

"I was like, 'How could you do this to me?' I was pretty upset, but I realize that our marriage is deeper than that. I can't let this little thing affect how I feel about my husband," she said. "I love him and our relationship has just kind of grown from this."

Her husband does apologize though for any hurt he might have caused his spouse.

"I definitely do apologize to Chelsea for teasing a little bit," he said today. "I'm sorry for the emotional roller coaster it's put you through. I am glad that you are understanding and such a sweet wife and that we are doing well."

Would it be easier for her to answer: If we are traveling 80mph, how far will we go in one hour?

by das monde on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 02:37:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Over the years one amasses enough evidence that people get the domestic/sentimental life misery they deserve.

If you are not convinced, try it on someone who has not been entirely debauched by economics. — Piero Sraffa
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 04:28:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The couple, who are both students at Utah State University in Logan

The Utah State University in Logan enrolls people who aren't up to first year elementary school level...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 04:46:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nah, c'mon, they're up to elementary school level.

Otherwise they'd be at Boise State.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 06:37:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nothing like that.  She's quite sharp as an attorney.  Just always hated math and freezes up when she has to do it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 07:05:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Legal language is formal and persuasive. It's not logical in the sense a proof is logical, because the whole point of law is to dispute matters of fact, law and context to persuade a judge and/or a jury and/or the opposing side's lawyers that your story is the convincing one.

I've had some legal dealings recently, and it's been impressive how you can make something true just by stating it - even if it's nonsense.

The fact that most politicians seem to be lawyers or PR people doesn't reassure me - although given scientists like Merkel and Thatcher, it's obvious that numeracy isn't a prophylactic against moral insanity.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 07:39:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sociopaths can be attracted to any field.  Some more than others (lawyers, people in the financial fields, etc), but nevertheless, they're present everywhere.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 07:09:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The law is logical, in that much energy is spent to keep it internally consistent. There goes a relationship from law to philosophy to math to science, it is just that science is not just bound by logic, but also by observations on the existing world. Logic alone does not make anything true like Gödel (amazingly enough) had to prove before it was accepted by philosophers.

To reflect Drew's point, most politicians here have studied politicla science, where they learnt that the current system is the best possible and politicians are needed to rule the masses forn their own good.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sat Jun 30th, 2012 at 03:08:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
All those fees and you are likely the first one to really proofread the document!

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 05:58:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It was fairly easy.  I had the numbers figured out probably a week ago.  So I just went through the formal docs and was able to say, "No, you did (whole bunch of shit) wrong.  The number you want is $x."

I think I've thoroughly humiliated the closing attorney at this point.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 06:06:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Carefull! Maybe he can't or won't bother to check figures or keep track of details, but he can screw you over in all sorts of murky ways - ways you could find out about AFTER closing. And are you sure he is really working for you and not your agent or, worse, the seller's agent, even worse, the bank or, worst of all, all of them?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 28th, 2012 at 07:59:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've been nice about it. :)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 06:33:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Halftime on Bild:

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2012 at 02:57:40 AM EST


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