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Saturday Open Thread

by afew Sat Jul 7th, 2012 at 02:45:51 PM EST

You really want one of these?


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OK, here it is.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jul 7th, 2012 at 02:47:13 PM EST
I want one of these.  Well.... not personally, just to replace all the existing diesel trucks out there.

Although still popular in Switzerland and Eastern Europe, trolleybuses have nearly disappeared in Germany, with the exception of Solingen, Eberswalde and Esslingen. Most of them were replaced in the 1950s and 1960s with diesel-powered vehicles.

But trolleybuses could return, according to Bert Leerkamp, a traffic engineer at the Bergischen University in Wuppertal. "Freight trucks with electric motors connected to an overhead cable have more traction," he said. "They also have no direct emission and don't have to carry the energy along with them."

The details of how they are powered matters, but I still think that there is a lot of opportunity here.  If nothing else, this could be a very useful way to utilize renewable energy while retaining the ability to cut peak loads.  If trucks have both an electric motor and diesel engine, during periods where peak loads are straining the grid they could be ordered to revert to diesel to drop the load.

It's time for the OECD nations to start thinking about how to sustain economic security when the possibility of absolute shortages of oil looms out 15-20 years from now.  If over the road transport and farming can made to operate without oil, then you can ensure economic continuity even if there is a massive disruption.  Not being able to drive to the grocery is a hassle, but not being able to find food on the shelves is a disaster waiting to happen if there is ever another oil shock.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sat Jul 7th, 2012 at 03:08:05 PM EST
Many delivery trucks operate at night and in the early morning. That, carefully applied, could also help balance demand load around the entire 24 hr cycle.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Jul 7th, 2012 at 05:29:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I honestly see there being two markets: short haul and long haul.

In short haul markets, it seems like a plug in hybrids might be the better option from the infrastructure point of view.

In long haul markets, it seems like having highways rigged with overhead lines is the best option.  Not to mention that I imagine that these same highway right of ways could be used to run HVDC and other powerlines.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sat Jul 7th, 2012 at 05:35:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Boston, Massachusetts still has some trolley buses in operation. This is one of the "unknown" solutions to transportation problems. Besides the obvious advantages of electric operation, the cost of conversion from diesel buses to trolley buses is relatively low--all you need to do is put in the overhead wires.

We had an interesting grid distribution system failure in my neighborhood last night. The wind was blowing a little bit, and the lady across the street heard a loud THUMP. Turns out it was a power pole, rotted at the bottom, falling onto her house. The fall was limited by the wires and some tree branches. So this morning, a crew came out to replace the pole. It took them all of an hour to yank the old stump, drill out the replacement hole, stick in the new pole, and move the wires.

Just as an example of how fast you can manipulate overhead power infrastructure.

It's not hard to envision a system where your car connects to a trolley system for highway travel, and uses a battery for local transport. The trolley system technology would have to be improved, but a third rail system on a limited access highway might be practical, or a single-wire overhead system with a third-rail ground. There are lots of possibilities...think about amusement park bumper cars...

by asdf on Sat Jul 7th, 2012 at 09:38:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dayton, Ohio does as well.  I noticed them when I went to go look at houses.

One of the big fights going on at the moment in SW Ohio is the effort to install a streetcar from the downtown Cincinatti area to the university district about 3 miles (5 km) to the north up a hill.  

The planned path passes through a neighborhood called Over the Rhine that was built by German immigrants who migrated after the 1848 revolution, but now has become majority African American.  In 2001, the largest civil disturbance in the US since the 1992 LA Riots took place there.  But over the last decade it has been gentrified. Locals see the new streetcar as part of an effort to force long time residents out in favor of hipsters.

Because of the geography of the city inversions are a real problem, trapping fumes in the old city center. What's interesting is that for the cost of installing the line is budgeted for $100-200 million, or about $50 million a mile.  Running a trolley bus with overhead lines, no track, would cost about $1-2 million a mile.

Even at the high end, it's clear that the cost of the initial fixed track line could have been used to replace most of the lines coming into the city center.  Which would seriously improve air quality in the city.  Of course hipsters don't ride the bus, but light rail is trendy.  Alas, that hasn't been the way that the discussion has gone.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sun Jul 8th, 2012 at 01:19:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I feel certain I've seen a long system of trolley buses in Salzburg, too.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Sun Jul 8th, 2012 at 03:50:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Twitter / helenlewis: Turns out Andrew Neil eats
Turns out Andrew Neil eats puppies for breakfast. I always suspected as much: https:/twitter.com/afneil/status ...


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Jul 7th, 2012 at 03:14:02 PM EST
A habit he no doubt picked up from rupert

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jul 8th, 2012 at 03:47:36 AM EST
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