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Thursday Open Thread

by afew Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 11:49:36 AM EST

Same old song


Display:
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 11:50:13 AM EST
And here's a live version for people in Germany who remain forbidden by GEMA



"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 11:53:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If Elder Daughter is still alive... she will be taking photos, and putting them on her blog

Sure enough... Dala Floda, Sweden

But she's probably in Amsterdam by now

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 12:16:04 PM EST
You scared me to death! Of course she's still alive. What a great photo and a great kid.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 05:29:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also this :

Anybody recognise these people?


(paging Mrs Bath)

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 12:18:19 PM EST
Elizabethan Hobbits?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 12:48:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was thinking it was a picture of the Shadows of Terror of Mordor, aka "Nazgul," possibly taken while on their way to the Shire?

Or not.


Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 01:17:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I think you may be on to something there

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 01:39:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Definitely not Nazguls, those shadows are happy, relaxed, loose.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:41:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Probably troublemakers

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 01:13:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I take it you're in there?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:50:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Start with the Austintacious curves.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:54:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was only this morning reading about the mythological role of shadows in The New Golden Bough (mon livre de toilette du jour).

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 03:46:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's going to be a long jour...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:49:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Couple of pages a trip, probably cheeper than by the roll

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 07:19:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've been reading it for years! I usually switch books when I have completed a section or chapter.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 01:37:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(left to right):
Cowardly Lion
Tin Man
Dorothy
Straw Man
by asdf on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 06:32:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Close.

Younger Daughter, Self, the Baker, the Photographer.

And here's a song for Mr Bath (Helen, you should ask him to take you to the local salt mine)

There's wheat in the field
And water in the stream
And salt in the mine
And an aching in me.

I can no longer stand and wonder
Cos I'm driven by this hunger.
So I'll jug some water, bake some flour,
Store some salt and wait the hour.

When thinking of love,
Love is thinking for me
And the baker will come
And the baker I'll be

I'm depending on my labour,
The texture and the flavour

Hey!

I can no longer stand and wonder
Cos I'm driven by this hunger

So I'll jug some water, bake some flour.
Store some salt and wait the hour.


It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 03:52:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Fantastic! He is much honored.


'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 05:32:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]


It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 05:48:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Say hi from me!
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 06:04:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You know I do. Let's do it again.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 05:30:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Another day, another part of Germany, this time it's Hamburg; courtesy of the generosity of Katrin.

Tomorrow, the model railway exhibition, the Hamburg museum and, possibly, a pub or ten.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 01:16:30 PM EST
Don't forget the nicest bit of Hamburg's subway, which I have promised to show you. Although it shouldn't be called subway, rather sup-way or so. It's higher than street level not lower. And the engineers who planned it made a bit of a mistake when they calculated the radius of the curve. So, all trains have to slow down and crawl round that corner, out of a narrow street, and towards the port. We must remember to make a photo for DoDo.
by Katrin on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 01:54:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
it shouldn't be called subway, rather sup-way or so

Elevated is the English (American) term.

And the engineers who planned it made a bit of a mistake when they calculated the radius of the curve

I suspect it's more the case that trains sped up since it was constructed? Googling I find this, which gives a top speed of 60 km/h for the original trains a century ago, but speed reaching only 40 km/h on shorter station intervals.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 02:14:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nice link. I suspect there was an owner of ground who didn't want to sell (but I don't know). The trains are much slower than 40 km/h in the curve and everyone is happy about it, because the view is beautiful.
by Katrin on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 02:35:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which curve is it? I find that there was a 120 m curve at Baumwall with a top speed of 30 km/h, which was recently widened to 160 m to enable 50 km/h. However, the smallest radius is apparently on the transition from the elevated section to the subway section between Rödingsmarkt and Rathaus: 71 m. That's pretty tight, and if there are more curves in the range in-between, trains must indeed be significantly slower than even 40 km/h.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 02:56:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Baumwall
by Katrin on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 03:05:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So maybe it's that curve after all? I forgot the link BTW.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 03:14:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By the way, on the one occasion I was in Hamburg (uaaargh, must have been 24 years ago), I didn't get to travel on the Hochbahn, but we ate something at a bistro on the port below the elevated rail just west of Baumwall, in sight of the Rickmer Rickmers.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 03:20:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, that's the one. Wait, did you say you did not travel by Hochbahn when you had the chance? I wouldn't have thought that of you. ;-)
by Katrin on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:18:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was a minor :-) At least I got my parents and siblings to agree to a detour to the Hauptbahnhof (where we failed to meet upon any junkies).

BTW, note in Crazy Horse's direction; this Hamburg visit was during the same trip when I saw the first wind turbines in my life, in a test field near Cuxhaven, which had a glass house for visitors with nice paintings of renewables futurism.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:51:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Being in free association mode, I tracked down info on that test wind farm near Cuxhaven. I find it was called Windpark Cuxhaven (later apparenlty re-named Windpark Cappel-Neufeld for the actual location), and consisted of 10 type E-16 three-blade turbines built by later giant Enercon (55 kW each) and 15 Monopteros single-blade turbines built by MBB (30 kW each). It went on-line between March and August 1988, so it was only a few months old when I saw it. The single-blade turbines were a failure, dismantled four years later, while the Enercon turbines were a success, achieving a capacity factor of 31% in the first four years, and apparently being operational for 20 years, as they were repowered in 2008.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 05:25:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most have so little understanding of the great strides the wind industry has made since the pioneer years. vielen Dank for remembering this example, and bringing it to us.

Enercon's 2MW+- turbines (can someone calculate the difference between 2MW and 55kW) have had over 60% of the German market for the past years.

Your post also shows that when the earliest turbines were claimed to have a twenty year life (20 yr), they did.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 05:46:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's quite astonishing. :)
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:52:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
While browsing sources inspired by the short discussion of the WWII bombing of Cologne, I came across the diary of a survivor (pdf, in German), which I ended up reading large parts of. It was written by a middle-aged man from January 1941 to May 1945, started with the specific aim to document all the bombing and bomb damage (the record of course becomes incomplete in the latter years as the scale of both bombing and destruction grow). What made it captivating was all the small indications of everyday life, and reading with hindsight.

Of course, I looked at any mention of politics. For the most part, I can only read between the lines: references to Hitler, the Nazis or their actions are mostly recounted without any attempt at expressing own opinion. In a May 1941 commentary, he feels the need to name of the company whose shoe factory was hit that day, and the fact that its Jewish owners had to leave the country. But it's not until June 1943 that he dared to scribe down his opinion that Hitler now has the trust of only 20%. But even in February 1945, he is very circumspect in the way he mentions witnessing SS units regularly beating forced labourers to push them on. He becomes more critical once the front is nearing, and starts to curse the Nazis once under American occupation, mentioning concentration camps for the first time.

The man's opinion of the war also develops, but it starts out less reserved: he clearly roots for the "home side" in the first years, even after revealing a sense that the "home side" is losing in early 1943. His elder son disappears in Stalingrad (it's not revealed whether the father learnt the son's fate); later, a month after D-Day, his younger son is captured on the Western Front unharmed. He comments this capture saying that if a soldier "did his duty and was coward, he can go into captivity with peace of conscience". This naive patriotism is unbroken by the near-total destruction of his home city and continues until the front closes in on Cologne, when he joins the Volksstürmer (the ad-hoc militia of not properly trained old and young people formed at the end of the war). His views transform only then, when he sees for himself that the war is already lost. At the same time his language moves from "the enemy" to "the Americans". He decides to desert by staying put (not moving East as ordered).

The man's observations of the early occupation are also interesting. He perceives the Americans as cold and distant (notes their lack of greetings) and surmises that they were ordered to. But the soldiers regularly plunder and start shooting on the streets when drunk. Because the Americans are much better supplied in most goods than the locals, the plunder is focused on alcohol and some practical goods – the man's radio is taken away at gunpoint, though when he complains he gets another radio from an ashamed public relations officer. He repeatedly comments this plunder saying that this is what soldiers do, on one occasion adding that "ours surely weren't any better", not even against compatriots, and he refers back to a September 1944 log in the diary when he described peasants angry at army requisition.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 01:52:31 PM EST
Thanks for taking the time to share this with us.
by stevesim on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 02:18:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He sounds like just a normal Joe-blow caught up in the events. Roots for his own side, curses the opposition who kill people, even if both sides were doing more or less morally equivalent things to each others' populations. It's exactly what happened in the UK, part of which included the lack of regret for Dresden amongst my parent's generation

As for American attitudes, I'd guess that was pretty normal too. It's very difficult when you've been killing people all day to suddenly re-acquire a civilised attitude when you're dealing with a defeated civilian population. they're just not allowed to shoot them without a reason.

However, I was genuinely surprised to find out that they used the cathedral as a rifle range.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 02:28:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Roots for his own side, curses the opposition who kill people

Actually, I don't remember a single passage when he cursed the enemy. The tone is rather fatalistic throughout. Then again, (1) the diary starts well after the first bomb raids, so he was probably already jaded, (2) he is not a hotblooded youth like ther authors of the better-known soldier diaries but past his prime.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 02:36:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
he feels the need to name of the company whose shoe factory was hit that day, and the fact that its Jewish owners had to leave the country

...feels the need to name the original name of the company...

He becomes more critical once the front is nearing, and starts to curse the Nazis once under American occupation, mentioning concentration camps for the first time.

I wanted to note another passage, when he closes the most outspoken cursing of the Nazis with, I'm paraphrasing only, 'but I'm veering off into politics; but I only wanted to talk about the state of the house and the garden and the neighbourhood.'

"did his duty and was coward, he can go into captivity with peace of conscience"

...wasn't a coward...

This naive patriotism is unbroken by the near-total destruction of his home city

Somewhere here I wanted to add that he was seeking rays of hope in short-lived successes like the Battle of he Bulge.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 02:31:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I forget where I read that people's attitude to war was quite different to what it is today, in Europe at least.  People expected to have a loved one die in some war and were vers fatalistic about death in general, as exemplified in what you related tomus Dodo
by stevesim on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 03:37:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To us, not tomus.  
by stevesim on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 03:38:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Please excuse my pathetic American lack of understanding of European political history, but from a political viewpoint, where was Cologne in the 1930s? Was it a hotbed of Nazi enthusiasm, or perhaps dragged along with the rest of the country?
by asdf on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 06:36:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't address the topic, but Cologne was the setting for the film about the anti-Nazi youth Edelweißpiraten.

wiki edelweiss pirates



"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 03:57:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Cologne was in one of the two election districts in Germany where the NSDAP failed to win a relative majority even in the last multi-party elections in March 1933 (see election result maps or tables), with the Catholic-conservative Centre Party (a forerunner of the CDU) maintaining its lead instead. The city itself was led by Centre Party major Adenauer (who was to become West Germany's first chancellor), whom the Nazis removed by force after gaining only 39.6% in the local elections also held in March 1933, when the same things happened in the city council as later in the Reichstag when the Enabling Act was adopted (that is: presence of Nazi paramilitaries, arrest of the communist members, intimidation and later arrest of opposing Social Democrat members, collaboration by cowardy Centre Party members).

Cologne is part of the Rhineland industrial area, and as such, it was also a 'hotbed' of Social Democrats (and later communists). After the national takeover in 1933, and starting already before the local takeover, the Social Democrat leaders were hunted down and the communists even more so. The war diarist mentions the 1945 re-installation of the Weimar-era Social Democrat police chief, recounting that when the Nazis deposed him in 1933, the Nazi leader hit his head with a wine glass.

The Rhineland was also the area occupied between 1923 and 1926 by the allied forces (with Cologne in the small British zone) as a 'retaliation' for insufficient WWI reparation payments, triggering a de-facto general strike (the reparation payments and the state's payment of wages for not working workers were two of the main reasons of the infamous hyperinflation), so there was nationalism, too. The Nazis made the city their local base already under the occupation, and used it as stage.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 06:26:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So today Bolt will have another chance at continuing the construction of his own legend (his expressed intention). I wonder how the TV stations will select between the other events: today is also the final in women's football, with a re-run of last year's final between the USA and Japan, and I'm also interested in that.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 01:59:30 PM EST
By the way. I only noticed this Olympics that all American medal winners put their right hand on the heart when the national anthem is played, which ticks me off. Have athletes always done this? Checking around, I find that this is actually law (36 USC § 301), and the hand-on-heart part was added in 1976 (see the original, 1942 version without it – but the section on the hoisting of the flag does require hand on the heart, and even places requirements on "aliens"...).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:36:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ha, you think that is bad???

Officially, if you're in civilian clothes, there are certain times when you are expected to "salute" the flag. Like when the National Anthem is played. (You're also supposed to sing along, but with it's one and a half octave range, you can only sing it when drunk--and with it's unconventional structure, nobody can remember the words. Which is why singers write the words on their hands.)

But, it is completely out of control. A couple of weeks ago, a local motorcycle policeman was tragically killed in a traffic accident. The police do these memorial services where cops from all over come and pay their respects. And when I say "from all over," I mean "from all over." From Maine, for example, to Colorado, which is around 3000 km. The procession of police cars through town was over 1000 vehicles and took over an hour to pass by near our house.

Ok, that's over the top. But what is really over the top is the people at the side of the road, standing like statues, with their hands over their hearts--saluting the police cars.

http://www.gazette.com/sections/slideshow/?id=15493334

by asdf on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 06:47:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We have a state flag with a Zia on it...and that in itself is controversial since it was stolen from the Zunis and they object to the conquerors taking it as their own.  Anyway, at meetings, etc., we stand and point our right hands at the flag and say this:

 "I salute the flag of the state of New Mexico. The zia symbol, of perfect friendship, among united cultures".  

The sentiment is fine, but the whole performance is pretty stupid.  


by ElaineinNM on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 07:15:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, one point is that "saying it makes it true," so that sort of ceremony might at least encourage some motion towards making it true...
by asdf on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 11:32:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Must take some cognitive dissonance for Minutemen to do this ceremony...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 06:59:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
some of you might be aware that i love the sport of baseball, even as perverted by millionaires playing for a congressionally sanctioned monopoly.

one of the standout traditions was the 7th inning stretch, where the crowd would sing "Take Me Out To The Ballgame." After 9/11, at every stadium and every game, some perp first sings "God Bless America" as the crowd stands and sings.

It is so disgusting that i refuse to stand, period. (of course, there are other things about amurka which also disgust me, like the opinions of some of my friends on global warming.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 04:03:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Growing up in America, each school day began with a recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag, with right hand over heart, and sports events were begun with hand over heart and a singing of the American Anthem. They usually also began with a prayer.

By the time I was a Senior in high school, I no longer bowed my head and shut my eyes for the prayer and I no longer put my hand over my heart and sang along. The Vietnam war was already underway and it changed a lot of things about me.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 05:45:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I can remember that - in 1962 when I went to school in the US for one year I was asked to do it too. When I asked why, as I was not a US citizen. They told me, to do it to show my greatfulness for being allowed to be there.

After all these years it still makes me grinch when I see it.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 08:38:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Best response ever to that sort of thing:

"Can you please repeat that in the original German?"

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 11:33:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
disgust me, like the opinions of some of my friends

I avoid this by not having any friends...

by jam on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 11:29:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Huh, that's really over the top... looks like a mass psychosis.

I also learnt only now that the hand-on-heart rule for the Pledge of Allegiance and flag-raising was preceded by the Bellamy salute, which itself preceded the Fascist and Nazi salutes.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 06:54:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I was going to post that last pic there but didn't want to stir up more trouble than needed...
by asdf on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 10:57:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What are people with dextrocardia supposed to do?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 04:46:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
1976 hm? Does it have anything to do with the gentlemen who placed their hands in a different salute some years earlier?

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 07:06:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Religiosity slides worldwide, plummets in scandal-hit Ireland - chicagotribune.com
PARIS (Reuters) - Traditionally Catholic Ireland has registered almost the steepest drop worldwide in people calling themselves religious in a new survey tracking international trends in faith and atheism in recent years.

Only 47 percent of Irish polled said they were religious people, a 22-point drop from the 69 percent recorded in the last similar poll in 2005, according to the WIN-Gallup International network of opinion pollsters.

Average religiosity in the 57 countries included in the poll was 59 percent, a decline of 9 points since 2005, it said.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 02:27:39 PM EST
Religiosity slides worldwide, plummets in scandal-hit Ireland - chicagotribune.com
At the same time, the number of people declaring themselves to be convinced atheists rose from 4 percent worldwide in 2005 to 7 percent this year. The biggest growth was in France.

...The most convinced atheists were found in Japan (31 percent), Czech Republic (30 percent) and France (29 percent).

And what's the story about France?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 03:09:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
DoDo:
what's the story about France?

Every French athlete that screws up in the Olympics loses God a hundred believers.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:35:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a joke, obviously. But I'd have thought it was fairly well known that there's a strong secular and indeed antireligious element in French society.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:38:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but what brought that strong growth in the last seven years?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:44:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I really don't know.

But when I see this:

given the amplitude of the drop in religious feeling in seven years, I'm inclined to wonder about the polling.

(From Press release on this WIN-Gallup poll (pdf))

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 05:15:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is a top 10 among 57 countries, with the average being a drop of 9%. I don't know about Vietnam, France, South Africa and Ecuador, but all the others had major paedophile priest scandals in recent years. If I am not mistaken, as yet the Catholic Church in France escaped a major review in that field.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 06:20:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're not mistaken.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 03:07:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To be fair, after a rash of court cases about priestly paedophilia in France, there was, roughly ten years ago if I recall correctly, a major but fairly discreet purge. A non trivial number of priests spent significant time in prison. I'm not saying that the institution is now "clean" but an effort was made.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 04:05:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Quite. But not a "major review" as in some other countries, which is what I think DoDo meant.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 05:49:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, but they still hear the international news.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 05:46:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And react stronger than people in those other countries? That would still need an explanation.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 06:34:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Change in atheism is Tapble 4 on page 12. France leads with a 15-point increase, followed by the Czech Republic (+10) Japan (+8), Ireland and the Netherlands (+7). Global average was +3.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 06:29:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm still in doubt about these results. +15% atheists in 7 years?

Too good to be true.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 03:07:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My instinct is that it's a generation thing.

People of my age (50ish) had some rudiments of religious education, got married in church, almost without exception, but never set foot there otherwise as adults. Their children have no religious education at all. There is a point where the tenuous affiliation with the (Catholic) church breaks down, where there is no trace of peer pressure any more, and "not religious" switches to "atheist".

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 05:03:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The poll definition is "convinced atheist", which is all the same precise and quite strong.

As for generations, you know the baby boom generation that was about 20 in 1968 was strongly anti-institutional including anticlerical, and their kids (rising 40 now) weren't mostly given a religious education.

OTOH, though I've no evidence to point to right now, I think polls show that religiosity tends to grow, not lessen, with age. That could invalidate what I'm saying about the '68 generation, but also what you're saying about younger cohorts.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 06:01:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I note that among those with "none" as religion about half are "not religious" and half "atheist". Would be interesting to see a country breakdown of that.

Also note that "Don't know/Won't answer" is topped by far by Japan, then a group with Russia, Sweden and Bulgaria. I suspect that the cathegories are interpreted different in different cultural settings.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 10:26:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm in doubt because I can't associate it with any local event significant enough to move public perceptions in the last seven years. The generation change eurogreen speaks about should apply in a lot of countries.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 06:33:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
From the Orlando Sentinel (no pictures).
Jeffery Goldmacher is running for the Osceola County Commission on familiar issues such as cutting government red tape and boosting the local economy. But a less conventional issue -- his nudist lifestyle -- is taking center stage.

A mailer that purports to show a nude, snorkeling Goldmacher has raised the Republican candidate's ire. He said he has been forthright about living at the Cypress Cove Nudist Resort & Spa near Poinciana but insists that the photo is not of him and that the mailer is full of untruths.

"I come right out and tell people that I live in a clothing-optional resort, not a nudist colony," Goldmacher said. "Only lepers and ants live in colonies."

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 02:45:40 PM EST
One more day of 36C+ (98F) high temperatures and then six days with highs between 31 and 33C, (worst = 93F) but all with nightime lows around 20C. At least it won't be oppressive to venture outside midday. I'm off to wet down the back lawn to keep down the dust when I mow. And there is actually green grass to mow. Also will water my windrows.

My tomatoes have survived the heat and I can now hope for fresh blooms and fresh fruit sets. I just brought in about two dozen ~2" dia. red tomatoes from my Early Girl plants and have a bunch more ready to pick from my Better Boy, Roma and Rutgers plants. Plus there are still lots of green tomatoes of various sizes on the vines. My best crop yet.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 02:51:08 PM EST
Here the heat subsided in the early hours of Monday, and in the days since peaked under 30°C, with an even cooler wekend predicted – at last I can feel relaxed.

all with nightime lows around 20C

If only I had that when daytime max was 31-33°C for days. Nighttime lows determine how much I can cool down my house... Do you have rooms without air conditioning where you open the windows by night? If so, what temperature is there in the morning?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 03:05:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have a patchwork of HVAC systems, but do have the ability to open windows and insert fans. Tonight we are expecting a low just under 20C, Saturday morning the low is forecast to be 15.5C, and the Sunday morning low to be 17.8. Then back up to 20-21C for a couple of days, back down, etc.

I like to sleep at around 20C but we don't set the thermostat lower than about 25.4C, so I may set a fan in the 'media room' on exhaust and raise windows in our bedroom, my office and the main bath to see if I can get a lower temp. In the winter I let the night temp drop towards 15C by setting the heat at that point. We will see if I can cool the house below 25C Sunday morning. Another thing to do before I go to bed. :-)

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:19:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In the mid-thirties here, 36° with the effect of 40° tomorrow. With no AC, we open up as much as possible at night/early in the morning, and bring house temps down to 20°C. It's liveable if the hot spells don't last too long.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:29:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I keep the Little James Basket Press white at about 8C, which serves most adequately during the few days Bremen isn't cooled from the Nordsee. (of course, we let it warm a few seconds to release the whatevers.)

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:47:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, I see Viognier is in the mix there. Excellent.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 05:30:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Viognier and Sauvignon Blanc aren't bad choices for a blend.  

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 05:41:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Excommunicated for heterodoxy!

Viognier and Sauvignon Blanc, indeed. (Where can I get me some?)

Actually I got some Riesling/Sauvignon Blanc in Italy a few months ago. Astonishingly good.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 04:11:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In the US, any decent wine shop.  US is growing a lot of Viognier; it's so popular it has been declared the "State Grape of Virgina."  (Wine.  From Virginia.  The mind.  It boggles.)

In Foreign?  Herr Crazy Horse von Bremen posted he was chilling a Little James Basket Press White.  Have to ask him where he bought it.    

Allow me to warn you away from any Chenin Blanc from the US.  Simple statistics state there has to be a good one, and if you find it let me know.  Stick with a Vouvray.  

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 04:05:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
early hours of MondayTuesday

Oh, and this morning I managed to bring the computer room temperature below 24°C for the first time in two weeks. It's 26°C right now.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:43:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We are blessed with something close to a perfect summer in Lyon. Highs no higher than 30°, nights fairly comfortable, generally below 20°, no climate control required (or available), other than a fridge for the bavairan beer and ice cubes for the mojitos.

Tomorrow we're off in the van for southern Spain.  We'd better keep a beach close at hand, because it only has a small fridge.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 04:18:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When the temps reach 28-30 here during the day here in Bischofswiesen, we shut up all the doors and windows and close the curtains and the temperature inside doesn't go up much at all. The insulation is excellent, and we also use portable fans.

I cannot take the heat, at all, which may seems strange for someone from the South in the USA, but we left there, remember.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 05:54:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC News - Huge donkey welcomed at Lincolnshire animal sanctuary

A Lincolnshire animal sanctuary has welcomed an extra large new arrival.

Miss Ellie, an 8ft (2.4m) American Mammoth Jackstock imported from the US in 2010, towers over other breeds at the Radcliffe Donkey Sanctuary near Sutton-on-Sea.

The super-sized animal was taken in by the centre after its owners were no longer able to look after her.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 03:57:23 PM EST
Tomgram: Nick Turse, Tomorrow's Blowback Today? | TomDispatch
Only in America: It turns out that we're the sole country on the planet where a majority of people (62%) are sunnily in favor of sending drones across the globe (and across the borders of other countries) to take out terrorists.  According to Pew Research's latest polling, that includes 74% of Republicans, 60% of independents, and 58% of Democrats.  Nowhere else is such sentiment to be found.  In France, 63% disapprove; in Mexico, 73%; in Turkey, 81%; in Egypt, 89%; and in Pakistan, where drone strikes are a constant, 97% of those who know about them are opposed.  Whatever the world may think -- and in the U.S., there are liberals ready to argue vigorously for the "morality" of drones -- the Air Force (and the CIA) are plunging ahead training pilots and expanding their drone fleets.  In fact, the Air Force is already training more drone pilots than bomber and fighter pilots combined.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:04:18 PM EST
Essay on German Plans to Acquire Combat Drones - SPIEGEL ONLINE
The German military is considering the purchase of combat drones. But we should not allow ourselves to be seduced by the idea that an unmanned aircraft is a humane weapon. On the contrary, they expose the true nature of war in all its brutality.

A suicide bomber needs to be 100 percent willing to sacrifice his life. With a drone pilot, on the other hand, the risk of pilot death drops to zero percent. The West's war on Islamist terror is currently being waged between these two conflicting priorities. Nothing is more indicative of the asymmetry of the war, and nothing is as symbolic of the cultures that are waging it. It's a war between those who are willing to sacrifice everything and those who are unwilling to give up anything -- a war of sacrifice versus convenience, bodies versus technology and risk versus safety.

OAS_RICH('Middle2'); Like no other weapon, the drone stems from the needs and strengths of the West. Aside from convenience, technology and safety, it also represents a moral claim. In the world of weapons, the drone is a good weapon, at least at first glance. It claims no victims on one side and relatively few on the other, because it fires precision missiles.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:23:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We are so easily duped! I hope other electorates are more resistant generally. A lot of US citizens are growing tired of US military personnel getting killed in foreign lands, but have bought into the lie that we are performing a needed service. The key is for them to find out just how much this 'service' is costing them.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:26:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've been arguing (and it's generally taken Badly) that we may have crossed a critical line where too few soldiers are dying in wars, and this is something that has removed an essential break on politicians, presenting them with a situation where they think there are too little consequences for a bad war.

Drones, however although superficially reducing the threat of dead voters, and their outraged families friends and neighbours, and  so appearing to be a no lose form of warfare for the average politician, will actually remove a couple of layers of responsibility from the system. previous to this,  the chain of command would rattle down through various ranks to the local command, and they would press the buttons to drop the bomb or missile. but with Drones, it may be that because the controller is sat in a portacabin  or in the room next door, politicians will be tempted to take a more hands on approach to command. and because of  this  previous command structures will be bypassed,  so there is no general/admiral/colonel/captain to take responsibility when things go wrong, Nobody down the chain has made the decisions. All of the responsibility lies with the politicians where it properly belongs, so we may find that politicians may become less likely to go to war, because for once, they will be the ones left holding the parcel when the music stops, not some poor squaddie left out in the desert, or on top of a hill somewhere.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 07:41:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have yet to see any negative consequences for politicians from drone attacks. As long as the rhetoric of 'evil terrorist threat safely removed' remains viable I fear they are safe. And who are to call them to account and through what media?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 12:00:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yet, however waged, it's still principally about asymmetric war. And the first lesson of asymmetric war is "Beware of Blowback".

If they have nobody to target with IEDs, then they'll find something else to hurt.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 01:47:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not surprising.

Majority of US citizens find Reality too painful and have retreated to living in a Hollywood Action-Adventure fantasy world.  

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:51:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mississippi looks to lure French tax dodgers | The Raw Story

Thus far the focus has been on France's neighbor Britain, whose Prime Minister David Cameron irked Hollande by boasting that London would "roll out the red carpet" to French entrepreneurs seeking shelter for their income.

But a new offer came Wednesday from a more unlikely quarter: Haley Barbour, former governor of Mississippi, a southern US state that was in part founded by French settlers on territory at one point controlled by the French empire.

"My name is an old French Huguenot name and my great-great-great-great grandfather Louis LeFleur, a Frenchman, founded a trading post around 1800 that developed into Mississippi's capital, Jackson," Barbour said.

"I wonder if we Barbour boys ought to set up a business to attract wealthy Frenchmen and successful businesses from France to Mississippi," he mused, in an article for the website of the US magazine Foreign Policy.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:14:06 PM EST
Great idea, Haley. Since you know about history, you know France already rounded up whores and convicts and sent them out to people Mississippi.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't be silly.  They've all long since moved to New Orleans, and rightly so.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 05:01:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
heh

Have to have experienced Mississippi and New Orleans to get how funny - and accurate - Drew is.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 05:16:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The French (long before these were States of the Union) officially called the area of Louisiana and Mississippi "Louisiane" - but very commonly the colony was called "Mississippi". See Mississippi Company.

But since the first capital was Biloxi and the second La Nouvelle Orléans, you're probably right ;)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 05:26:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's a quiet version of Biloxi recorded at the N'awlins Jazz Fest.



"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 05:36:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tough to run a business in a state where people still count on their fingers, not to mention the mind-numbing effect of the heat, humidity and hurricanes.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 05:58:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Lot's of news coming down about the US presidential election and I find myself not giving two pins.


Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 04:55:29 PM EST
Nate has Obama's odds up to 72.5%.

Jesus, if Mittens can't get a lead right now, what's he going to do if the economy picks up in the last few months?  Jobless claims are still meh, but they have been dropping for weeks, and the Fed, if I remember correctly, seems to think growth picks up in Q3 and Q4.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 05:04:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Even Fox's pollsters are showing The Obama lead to be bigger than the Margin of error apparently

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 07:43:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, this thing is shaping to be an ass kicking with Obama getting re-elected, the Dems keeping control in the Senate, and the chances of switching control of the House increasing.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 08:38:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So if they decide to throw him overboard at the convention. What then? do the party seniors have control? do the Paulites havepower through the tea party voters on the floir and will resist anything that is even vaguely a move to the centre?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 08:48:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Party insiders are the only ones who could force a convention fight and they're the ones backing Romney.  

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 09:07:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not buying it yet.  If I were forced to put money down, I'd probably take Obama in a close one.  The campaign really hasn't started yet, and people won't really start paying attention until the conventions.

A lot can happen, and it feels like this should be a close election to me.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 09:56:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You're probably right, but I hope it's an Obama blowout, they take both houses with filibuster proof majorities and then we'll see if Obama really wants to make a difference as opposed to being a steady-as-she- goessinks president

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Aug 10th, 2012 at 11:41:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There's no way he'll get a filibuster-proof majority.  Just keeping the majority would be an accomplishment, given how many seats they have to defend in tough states (Missouri, Montana, etc).

Obama's accomplishments are pretty much in the books.  (We don't know what some of them, such as health care, will look like yet from an effectiveness standpoint, but they're nevertheless complete.)  The next four years -- if he wins -- will be about defending them from GOPer efforts to throw them out.  Probably with a good bit of Clintonian witch-hunt thrown in by the GOPers.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Sat Aug 11th, 2012 at 07:40:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Ryan pick just threw all our analysis into the trash can.  We need data.  We should get it by the middle of next week.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Sat Aug 11th, 2012 at 10:58:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Twitter / BorowitzReport: The fact that Republicans have ...
The fact that Republicans have declared a War on Women makes me think women must have oil.


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Aug 9th, 2012 at 07:44:34 PM EST


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