Welcome to the new version of European Tribune. It's just a new layout, so everything should work as before - please report bugs here.

European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 19 September

by afew Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 04:06:13 PM EST

 A Daily Review Of International Online Media 


Europe on this date in history:

1846 – Two French shepherd children, Mélanie Calvat and Maximin Giraud, experience a Marian apparition on a mountaintop near La Salette, France, now known as Our Lady of La Salette. The Catholic Church subsequently makes less of a marketing effort on this one than on Bernadette Soubirous's vision at Lourdes.

More here and here

 The European Salon is a daily selection of news items to which you are invited to contribute. Post links to news stories that interest you, or just your comments. Come in and join us!


The Salon has different rooms or sections for your enjoyment. If you would like to join the discussion, then to add a link or comment to a topic or section, please click on "Reply to this" in one of the following sections:

  • EUROPE - the public affairs of the European continent and the EU.
  • ECONOMY & FINANCE - with a focus on the economic crisis.
  • WORLD - geopolitics, the affairs of nations and supranational entities.
  • LIVING OFF THE PLANET - what we extract from the planet and the effect we have: environment, energy, agriculture, food...
  • LIVING ON THE PLANET - how humans live together: society, culture, history, science and technology, information...
  • PEOPLE AND KLATSCH - stories about people and of course also for gossipy items. But it's also there for open discussion at any time.
  • Please do NOT click on "Post a Comment", as this will put the link or your comment out of context at the bottom of the page.

Display:
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 02:39:34 PM EST
Labour Party MP for West Bromwich East Tom Watson

Dear Mr Murdoch,

As you know, I have been uncovering criminality at News International for several years. During which time, the company's management has regularly asked me to provide evidence of its habitual criminality. I have resisted such requests, as I did not believe they were sincere. It was my belief that senior people at the company knew perfectly well about journalists being involved in phone hacking, computer hacking, bribery and blackmail. And that the company had no wish to deal with these problems - did not even see them as such - rather to know what evidence existed in order to destroy it, to muddy the trail, in short, to cover up. For these reasons, I have resisted passing on evidence to you, and have passed it solely to the law enforcement authorities instead.

Nevertheless, I am writing to you today because I believe it may be possible that that era may be drawing to a close. I believe it possible that you and the current executives at the company may have realised that it is now too late to cover up what has gone on at News International. Whether or not you, and your executives, knew about the widespread use within News International of the latest investigative technique to be revealed - burglary - I believe you may now realise that the flat denial and attempt to destroy evidence of previous days will no longer wash with anybody.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 02:43:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is so enjoyable I thought it might have come from The Onion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 06:07:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh.

We may need a Comittee of some kind to keep News International profitable.


-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:25:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
apparently he has had a reply

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 02:19:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Please elaborate?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 02:32:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
nothing more is known as yet, beyond tom saying that he's had a reply, people are asking though

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:45:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EUobserver.com / Institutional Affairs / Ministers call for stronger EU foreign policy chief

BRUSSELS - A brainstorming group of 11 EU foreign ministers has called for a more powerful EU foreign policy chief and less power in general for EU countries.

The group - containing ministers from Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Italy, Germany, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal and Spain - published its communique on the "Future of Europe" on Tuesday (18 September) after a meeting in Warsaw.

It said the EU should make a "substantial revision" of the European External Action Service (EEAS), putting the EEAS chief in charge of neighbourhood and development policy as well as a new defence policy designed to create a "European army."

The current EEAS chief, Catherine Ashton, is flanked by neighbourhood commissioner Stefan Fuele and development commissioner Andris Piebalgs, who control the vast bulk of EU money spent in the Western Balkans, the Middle East and Africa.

The new-model EEAS chief would instead control two "junior" neighbourhood and aid commissioners.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 02:49:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EUobserver.com / Justice & Home Affairs / MEPs push for transparency rules on gas, oil and logging
BRUSSELS - The European Parliament is pushing for transparency laws that would require all large gas, oil, mining and logging companies listed on EU stock exchanges or domiciled in the EU to disclose payments they make to foreign governments anywhere in the world.

Deputies on Tuesday (18 September) in the parliament's legal affairs committee unanimously voted in favour of a draft law that would require the companies in the sectors to disclose all financial transactions above an €80,000 threshold.

"It's a victory for those lobbying for fairness and justice in these areas and I think it's time the industry recognised that they are at the end of the line in terms of transparency and disclosure," Arlene McCarthy, the British centre-left MEP who drafted the parliament's position, told EUobserver.

Parliament expanded on the European Commission's original text by including forestry, construction, telecommunications and banking sectors in the mix.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 02:50:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Corporate lobbyists 'target' commission's expert groups: theparliament.com
Campaigners have demanded new rules to protect EU decision making from "corporate capture".

The call comes in the wake of fresh allegations of how lobbyists 'target' the commission's expert groups.

Corporate Europe Observatory (CEO) says that lobbyists representing 'big business' have a disproportionate influential on the groups which shape EU legislation.

CEO says that proposals to tackle the "dominance" of corporate lobbyists in commission advisory groups do not go far enough and new rules must be introduced to "protect the legislative process from corporate capture".

It says that corporate lobbyists target the advisory groups in order to influence the legislative process at the "earliest stage".

Parliament's budget committee has blocked funding for the work of expert groups because of concerns over the alleged lack of balance.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 02:52:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Greens call for 'ceiling' for payments to farmers: theparliament.com
Parliament's Greens group has called for a "deep-rooted" reform of the EU's farm policy.

It says that farm funds could be better used and that, in future, there should be a payment 'ceiling' of €100,000 per farmer.

This compares with a commission proposal which says that as part of the reform each farm holding should receive up to €300,000.

Speaking at a news conference in parliament on Tuesday, the group's joint leader Daniel Cohn-Bendit said the figure proposed by his group would ensure "fairer distribution" of EU farm funds.

He said this would allow €7bn to be redistributed between member states and farmers.

"This money should be used for promoting the shift to sustainable farming and long-term employment in rural economies," said Cohn-Bendit.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 02:52:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ET: get your policy proposals 2½ years early.

Maybe the Greens did.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 09:02:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nice.
Do you have any lottery numbers to sell? :)

-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 11:42:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Leaked EU paper maps energy infrastructure black spots | EurActiv

EU countries are urged to speed up the connections of their gas and electricity grids, according to a draft European Commission report on investment in energy infrastructure, seen by EurActiv.

Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia, as well as Malta, Cyprus, Spain and Portugal, are on a "gas island" because of insufficient infrastructure connections with the rest of the EU, the draft report says.

But perhaps more seriously, dependency on a single gas provider also prevails in countries with a better geographical position, such as Slovakia, Bulgaria, Hungary and Romania, the paper says.

Following the Russia-Ukraine gas crisis in the winter of 2008-2009, the EU took a number of measures to make sure that individual countries are better connected and less vulnerable in the case of a supply disruption from Russia (see background). A few years later, it appears that little has been done, despite available funding.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 02:54:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it's been nice and warm in the winter, so we don't need to do anything.


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:28:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Prince Charles's letters to ministers should be disclosed, judges rule | UK news | guardian.co.uk

The government has for the first time been ordered to disclose copies of confidential letters that Prince Charles wrote to ministers.

The publication of the letters will reveal how the heir to the throne has been lobbying ministers behind the scenes with his strongly held opinions.

In a significant ruling published on Tuesday, three judges in a freedom of information tribunal decided the public is entitled to know how the prince seeks to alter government policy.

"The essential reason is that it will generally be in the overall public interest for there to be transparency as to how and when Prince Charles seeks to influence government," they ruled.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:53:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ha, let the pettiness parade begin

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:26:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Does he have opinions beyond "keep old architecture" and "alternative medicine is better than anything that's proven to work"?


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:29:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In siring an hier and a spare, he has done all that is currently required. When Britain comes to its senses and returns to the conventional monarchical system, his offspring will be appropriately positioned to take charge.
by asdf on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 12:39:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rubalcaba: "For Rajoy, the country is getting out of hand" - elConfidencial.com

"The rescue [for Spain] will only bring more budget cuts," the leader of the Socialist party, the main opposition party, Alfredo Pérez Rubalcaba, said in a TV interview on Spanish national TV on Monday, criticizing Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy.

He said he "would not have requested" financial help from Brussels and that one of the major problems in the country is the "distrust" towards the prime minister, because "for Rajoy, the country is getting out of hand."

During the interview, the Socialist leader called on Rajoy to clarify as soon as possible what the government plans to do with the pension system, because, he said, not only has Rajoy not been clear on whether the benefits will be changed, but Rubalcaba said he is also sure that there are plans to change the system. He said he believes the retirement age will be postponed to 67 years and that contributions to the system will have to be paid throughout the whole working life.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 04:02:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
DutchNews.nl - Far-reaching measures will hit everyone, says finance minister
Everyone will be aware of the far-reaching measures the caretaker government is taking to bring the government finances under control, finance minister Jan Kees de Jager told parliament on Tuesday.

'The financial crisis will not go away,' De Jager said. 'People are right to be worried about their jobs, the housing market. Growth expectations over the next few years are modest... we are all going to feel it.'

The credit and debt crises have affected the economy so deeply the budget deficit has to be cut and reform is vital. The five-party agreement reached in April will reduce the budget deficit back to 2.7%, in line with eurozone rules, he said.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 04:04:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Europe's most powerful countries call for elected EU president - Telegraph

n a document released on Tuesday after a meeting between 11 foreign ministers in Warsaw, the bloc, which includes all the largest European countries outside Britain, charted a vision for the "future of Europe".

As well as calling for a single, elected head of state for Europe, the bloc demanded a new defence policy, under the control of a new pan-EU foreign ministry commanded by Baroness Ashton, which "could eventually involve a European army".

In order to "prevent one single member state from being able to obstruct initiatives", a reference to British opposition to a European army, the German-led grouping demanded an end to existing national vetoes over foreign and defence policy.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 04:24:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EU heavyweights call for radical foreign and defence policy overhaul | World news | guardian.co.uk

Five of the six biggest countries in the EU, excluding Britain, have called for a radical overhaul of European foreign and defence policies to create a powerful new pan-European foreign ministry, majority voting on common foreign policies to bypass a British veto, a possible European army, and a single market for EU defence industries.

The German-led push, supported by 11 of 27 EU countries, embraces recent calls in Berlin and Brussels for a directly elected European president, sweeping new powers for the European parliament, and further splitting of the EU by creating a new parliamentary sub-chamber for the 17 countries of the eurozone.

While the call for a European army was not supported by all 11, the document also calls for a new European police organisation to guard the union's external borders and for a single European visa.

Nine months of brainstorming over the future of Europe by the foreign ministers of the 11 countries, launched by Guido Westerwelle, the German foreign minister, has resulted in a 12-page document crammed with policy recommendations. It will prove hugely contentious and, if implemented, will increase the pressure on Britain to quit the EU.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 05:18:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
See above.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 01:16:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry I read police chief instead of EU foreign policy chief when I checked the above- :-(
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 02:14:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
:)
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 02:18:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Coming soon to an EU near you: the "two party system."
by asdf on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 12:40:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Daily Morning Newsbriefing: Political tensions mount in Portugal (19.09.2012)
Opposition to Pedro Passos Coelho is rising both inside his government, and among the public; there is talk of a break in the coalition, or the appointment of a new government without elections; Spain issues short term debt at improved rates, but spreads are slowly creeping up again; there is an intense debate about whether and when Spain should apply for a programme; among those who favour immediate action are Charles Dallara and Jose Manuel Gonzales Paramo; but Spanish business associations and politicians are more cautious; the Spanish press is full of stories about how Mariano Rajoy plays the tactical game - by pushing all the reform measures into the 2013 budget, so as not to be seen as accepting external conditions; the Spanish press reports on Jean-Claude Juncker's remarks that the eurozone will impose tough conditions on Spain; France has started the ratification process for the fiscal pact, with a focus on structural deficits and an independent commission to warn when the country is coming of the trajectory; Bloomberg writes of an accelerating deposit flight from southern Europe - totalling €326bn from Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Greece in the year to July; the Dutch Liberal and Labour parties started coalition talks; Mark Rutte says there will be more austerity; the ECB may soon decide to publish minutes of its meetings; Giorgio Napolitano warns Italian politicians not to mess with the country's euro membership; the spreads of residential mortgage-linked securities has fallen since July, but the benefits are not likely to be passed on to consumers; Ralph Atkins says a banking union is also a pre-requisite for a much more integrated capital markets; Nicola Borri and Giuseppe Ragusa says another goal of the OMT is to improve the sterlisation process; Joachim Jahn is appalled by Vivianne Reding's interpretation of the bailout clause in the European Treaties; Paul de Grauwe and Yuemei Ji, meanwhile, argue that Germany's Target 2 surpluses exaggerate the overall risk, since the Bundesbank can easily refuse to convert speculative euro deposits by non-residents.


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 04:41:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 02:39:59 PM EST
Europe Banks Fail to Cut as Draghi Loans Defer Deleverage - Bloomberg
European banks pledged last year to cut more than $1.2 trillion of assets to help them weather the sovereign-debt crisis. Since then they've grown only fatter.

Lenders in the euro area increased assets by 7 percent to 34.4 trillion euros ($45 trillion) in the year ended July 31, according to data compiled by the European Central Bank. BNP Paribas SA (BNP), Banco Santander (SAN) SA, and UniCredit (UCG) SpA, the biggest banks in France, Spain and Italy, all expanded their balance sheets in the 12 months through the end of June.

They have Mario Draghi to thank. The ECB president's decision nine months ago to provide more than 1 trillion euros of three-year loans to banks eased the pressure to sell assets at depressed prices. The infusion, designed to encourage firms to lend, succeeded in averting a short-term credit crunch by reducing their reliance on markets for funding. It also may be making European lenders dependent on more central-bank aid.

"Deleveraging isn't taking place, especially in Spain and Italy," said Simon Maughan, a bank analyst at Olivetree Securities Ltd. in London. "The fact that we haven't got on with it, or very slowly, suggests that when the time comes we'll need another ECB injection to roll over the first one, just to keep the balance sheets of Italian banks in business."

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:01:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
7,000 Millionaires Paid No Income Tax - Business Insider

The chart below from the Tax Policy Center shows the distribution of federal income taxes paid by income level in 2011.

It contains a number of interesting factoids, including the following:

  • 7,000 people made more than $1 million but paid no income tax.
  • 22,000 people made between $500,000 and $1 million but paid no income tax.
  • 81,000 people made between $200,000 and $500,000 but paid no income tax.
  • 381,000 people made between $100,000 and $200,000 but paid no income tax.

So that's 491,000 Americans who made more than $100,000 a year who paid no income tax. (Clearly dependent victims who refuse to take responsibility for their lives!)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:13:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
South Africa's Lonmin miners accept pay rise to end strike | Reuters

(Reuters) - Striking platinum miners at Lonmin's Marikana mine in South Africa accepted a pay offer on Tuesday, ending six weeks of violent unrest that claimed 45 lives and rattled Africa's largest economy.

The strikers, grouped on a bare soccer pitch near the mine, 100 km (60 miles) northwest of Johannesburg, cheered when they were told that management were offering a 22 percent pay rise, and said they would return to work on Thursday.

"I am happy - and forward with the struggle," said one of the striking miners, Sithembile Sohati.

"It's a huge achievement. No union has achieved a 22 percent increase before," Zolisa Bodlani, a worker representative at Marikana, told Reuters.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:19:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 02:40:21 PM EST
New video on Palestinians spells more trouble for Romney | Reuters

(Reuters) - Already reeling from a secret video showing him deriding 47 percent of the U.S. electorate, Republican Mitt Romney's campaign hit more trouble on Tuesday when new images surfaced in which he accused Palestinians of not wanting peace.

The videos, taken at the same closed-door fundraiser in Florida in May, have knocked Romney's gaffe-plagued campaign even more off stride and raised fresh questions about whether he can come from behind in the polls and win the White House in November.

"I look at the Palestinians not wanting to see peace anyway, for political purposes, committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel, and these thorny issues, and I say there's just no way," Romney said in the latest video clip published by liberal Mother Jones magazine.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:14:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
if Willard wins anyway, even if he continues to gaffe to the bitter end in early November? What does it mean for the world?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wp4O7v5320
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 06:14:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
fortunately, that's beginning to look like the same level of question as wondering what would have happened if John McCain had won.

What does it mean that the republicans can spend so much time demonstrating their complete lack of fitness to run a whelk stall, yet still be voted into control of the Senate and, possibly, the House ? Thus rendering the positive effect of electing Obama null and void

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:31:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
NATO halts work with Afghan allies to stem insider attacks | Reuters

(Reuters) - NATO ordered a cutback on Tuesday in operations with Afghan forces in response to a surge of so-called insider attacks on foreign servicemen, but said the restriction was temporary and would not derail a 2014 handover of security to Afghans.

The order indefinitely suspending most mentoring operations came from the second most senior U.S. commander in Afghanistan, Lieutenant-General James Terry, and applies to all front-line missions involving units smaller than an 800-strong battalion.

But a senior NATO spokesman, U.S. Colonel Tom Collins, said the order was only a "temporary and prudent response" to current threats of insider attacks and a week of mounting anger across the Muslim world over a film mocking the Prophet Mohammad.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:16:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
IPS - Female Suicide Bomber Strikes Kabul Bus | Inter Press Service

DOHA, Sep 18 2012 (IPS) - A suicide car bomber has killed 12 people in the Afghan capital, nine of them foreigners, officials said, in an early-morning attack claimed by an armed group which said it sent a female attacker to avenge an anti-Islam film.

A number of those killed on Tuesday were foreign workers for an international courier company, a senior police source said, and one was an Afghan translator.

"At around 6:45am (0215 GMT) a suicide bomber using a sedan blew himself up along the airport road in District 15. As a result, nine workers of a foreign company and three Afghan civilians are dead, and two police are wounded," police said in a statement.

Kabul police chief Mohammad Ayoub Salangi said the bomber blew herself up alongside a minivan, carrying foreigners.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:27:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Somali forces battle al-Shabab near Kismayo - Africa - Al Jazeera English

Somali troops backed by African Union forces have clashed with al-Shabab fighters, an al-Qaeda-linked Somali militia, as they try to advance towards the key port town of Kismayo, sources from rival sides have said.

Heavy fighting broke out on Monday near Birta-dher, about 40km from Kismayo, the biggest bastion of al-Shabab in southern Somalia, witnesses said.

Military officials confirmed that Somali and Kenyan troops launched an attack on the barracks of al-Shabab fighters in the area.

"The fighting is going on for the second day after our forces supported by Kenyan troops launched a final military offensive on al-Shabab positions in the Kismayo corridor", Mohamed Farah, Somali military spokesman at the frontline, said.

"The operation is aimed to root out the militants before we secure control of the port town", he said.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:31:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 02:40:47 PM EST
Child's Play: Food Makers Hook Kids on Mobile Games - WSJ.com

Like many children, 4-year-old Anna Woltjen pesters her mother during shopping trips for sweets and snacks. She has a fondness for all kinds of goodies but saves the hard sell for her favorite brands: Cookie Dough Bites, SuperPretzel and Icee frozen treats.

The New Jersey preschooler also asks for her mother's iPhone to play some of her favorite games, including "Cookie Dough Bites Factory," "SuperPretzel Factory" and "Icee Maker."

U.S. food companies are reaching children by embedding their products in simple and enticing games for touch-screen phones and tablets. The new medium is far cheaper than Saturday morning TV commercials and could prove as effective.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 02:58:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fat and getting fatter: U.S. obesity rates to soar by 2030 | Reuters

(Reuters) - If Americans stick to their eating and exercise habits, future historians will look back on the early 21st century as a golden age of svelte.

Using a model of population and other trends, a new report released on Tuesday by the Trust for America's Health and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation projects that half of U.S. adults will be obese by 2030 unless Americans change their ways.

The "F as in Fat" report also highlights the current glum picture of the U.S. obesity epidemic, in which 35.7 percent of adults and 16.9 percent of children age 2 to 19 are obese, as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported earlier this year.

But in its first forecast, the report builds on state-by-state data from the CDC to project obesity rates. In every state, that rate will reach at least 44 percent by 2030. In 13, that number would exceed 60 percent.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:17:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Sugar and Alzheimer's Connection | Mother Jones

Egged on by massive food-industry marketing budgets, Americans eat a lot of sugary foods. We know the habit is quite probably wrecking our bodies, triggering high rates of overweight and diabetes. Is it also wrecking our brains?

That's the disturbing conclusion emerging in a body of research linking Alzheimer's disease to insulin resistance--which is in turn linked to excess sweetener consumption. A blockbuster story in the Sept. 3 issue of the UK magazine The New Scientist teases out the connections.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:47:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Higher levels of BPA in children and teens significantly associated with obesity
ScienceDaily (Sep. 18, 2012) -- Researchers at NYU School of Medicine have revealed a significant association between obesity and children and adolescents with higher concentrations of urinary bisphenol A (BPA), a synthetic chemical recently banned by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) from sippy cups and baby bottles. Still, the chemical continues to be used in aluminum cans, such as those containing soda.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:50:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
IPS - Tractors Revolutionise Agriculture in Chad | Inter Press Service

N'DJAMENA, Sep 18 2012 (IPS) - Chad has more than 400,000 square kilometres of arable land, but poor rainfall and a reliance on basic agricultural techniques have left the country with a grain deficit in the past two years. The government is turning to mechanisation in a bid to improve harvests. Chad became an oil producer in 2003. But despite the financial rewards raked in from this, the northern and eastern parts of this Sahelian country have suffered famine since 2010.

Chadian President Idriss Déby Itno, whose fourth term began in 2011, has put youth and the countryside at the head of his priority list. He wants to put an end to what he has called "the hellish cycle of famine". But the cereal deficit has stubbornly remained at more than 500,000 tonnes a year since 2010.

A factory to assemble tractors was opened in N'Djamena in 2009.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:27:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
U.S. underestimates costs of carbon pollution and climate change

The U.S. federal government is significantly underestimating the costs of carbon pollution because it is using a faulty analytical model, according to a new study published in the Journal of Environmental Studies and Sciences.

A more appropriate accounting of costs would pave the way to cleaner, more economically efficient sources of power generation, the study found.

"This is a wake-up call for America to start aggressively investing in low carbon sources of energy. The very real economic benefits will accrue quickly and increase over time," said Dr. Laurie Johnson, chief economist in the climate and clean air program at the Natural Resources Defense Council.

"With approximately 40 percent of all carbon emissions in the U.S. coming from power plants, the economic advantages of clean electricity sources are significant," she said.

Johnson, who co-authored the study (with Chris Hope of Judge Business School, University of Cambridge) "The Social Cost of Carbon in U.S. Regulatory Impact Analyses," said the model used by the government is incomplete because it all but ignores the economic damages that climate change will inflict on future generations. That model was the product of an interagency task force comprised of six cabinet agencies and six executive branch offices.

The real benefits of carbon reduction range from 2.6 to more than 12 times higher than the government's estimate.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:39:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The silence of the bees: government refuses to act on pesticide evidence | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Here's an illustrative tale of how science is used and abused in government policy making. In some circumstances, as with the imminent badger cull, you can take scientific evidence and extrapolate it to breaking point in order to justify the decision you have already taken.

Today, on the issue of bees and pesticides, we see the opposite. Despite serious evidence of great harm being caused to bees by sub-lethal doses of neonicitinoid pesticides - published in the world's most prestigious journals - the government has decided that no changes to regulation whatsoever are required, because the case has not been proven beyond all doubt.

So extrapolation is fine if you like where it takes you, but abhorrent if you don't. Evidence-based policy making remains as dreamy a concept as ever, it seems, even with something as critical as keeping the nation's pollinators in good health and our food supply secure.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nah, more importantly, follow the money.

Badgers are culled because farming lobbies which want culling contribute to ministers. Bees die because companies that make the bee killing pesticides contribute to ministers.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:39:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Diamond field with trillions of carats found in Siberia - Telegraph
A diamond field containing trillions of carats has been discovered hidden under a giant meteorite crater in Siberia, Russian scientists have disclosed.

Specialists say the diamonds, which are "twice as hard as normal", could be used for industrial purpose but not for jewellery.

The stones were created by the impact of a bolide - a large projectile - smashing into the Earth 35 million years ago, leaving the 62-mile wide Popigay crater under which they are buried.

The existence of the diamonds was known in Soviet times but this is the first occasion the full scale of the deposit has been disclosed.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 05:09:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cool.

If only it had any intrinsic value.
A bit like a deposit of the next iphone.

Still, really good for cutting stuff.

-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:45:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Twice as hard as normal, eh?
by asdf on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 12:51:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 02:41:51 PM EST
IPS - India Coaxes Tribal Girls Into Schools | Inter Press Service

RAYAGADA, India , Sep 18 2012 (IPS) - The deafening din of the lunch gong is sweet music to the 200-odd tribal girls rushing down the stairway, clutching stainless steel plates and tumblers.

Sikhsya Niketan (House of Education) in Chattikona administrative block of Rayagada district is a residential school meant exclusively for girls of the Dongria Kondh tribe in eastern Odisha state. The school is part of the federal government's intensified efforts to take universal education to extremely marginalised groups in India.

Odisha's 62 tribal communities make up 22 percent of the total population and account for 50 percent of people living below the poverty line in the state. They are partly responsible for Odisha's low human development indicators as compared to other Indian states.

The Dongria Kondhs, who number about 8,000, live in 120 villages located at an altitude of 5,000 feet above the sea level on the Niyamgiri hill plateau, coveted by mining companies for its valuable mineral deposits.

Till date, only two Dongria Kondh girls have managed to complete school. The first, Kasturi Melaka, did so as recently as in 2010.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:28:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC News - Dark energy camera snaps first images ahead of survey

The highest-resolution camera ever built has begun its quest to pin down the mysterious stuff that makes up nearly three-quarters of our Universe.

The Dark Energy Survey's 570-million-pixel camera will scan some 300 million galaxies in the coming five years.

The goal is to discover the nature of dark energy, which is theorised to be responsible for the ever-faster expansion of the Universe.

Its first image, taken 12 September, focussed on the Fornax galaxy cluster.

In time, along with its massive haul of individual galaxies, it will study 100,000 galaxy clusters - the largest stable structures we know of - and 4,000 supernovae, the bright dying throes of stars.

This enormous survey is a collaboration between US, UK, Brazilian, Spanish and German astronomers.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:33:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jesus' Wife Mentioned on Fourth-Century Papyrus Fragment - Bloomberg

A scrap of papyrus dated to the fourth century has written on it in the ancient Coptic language, "Jesus said to them, my wife," reopening the debate about whether Jesus was married, as some early Christians believed.

The words on the honey-colored fragment are the first to show Jesus referring to a wife, according to Karen King, a professor of divinity at Harvard Divinity School in Cambridge, Massachusetts, who presented the finding today at the International Congress of Coptic Studies in Rome. The writing in black ink is in the language of Egyptian Christians, on a fragment of about 1.5 by 3 inches (4 by 8 centimeters).

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 05:22:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The text:
'Proof' Jesus was married found on ancient papyrus that mentions how son of God spoke of his wife and Mary Magdalene | Mail Online
  • not [to] me. My mother gave to me li[fe]...
  • The disciples said to Jesus,
  • deny. Mary is worthy of it
  • Jesus said to them, My wife
  • she will be able to be my disciple
  • Let wicked people swell up
  • As for me, I dwell with her in order to 
  • an image
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 05:26:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fran:
the debate about whether Jesus was married,

Was Jesus:

  • married?
  • living in sin with a hooker?
  • in a gay relationship with "the disciple whom Jesus loved"?
  • all of these?

Someone get up a diary, quick!
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 01:27:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If married, how many wives?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 02:17:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll be impressed when someone finally offers a bit of contemporary evidence that the fellow actually existed. Whether or not he was married to a hooker or a 7 year old seems to be secondary to an elusive primary issue.
by Andhakari on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 02:25:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think it makes any difference. Foundational figures may be entirely mythical. The salient point is that a vigorous new religion sprang up around "Jesus", and became the major religion of the Western world via the Roman Empire.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 02:43:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But it's all those little heresies that keep Christians (and other true believers) killing one another and the faith vibrant. It must be easier to stay focused and passionate when the questions are small and essentially irrelevant than looking for truths within - like blowing up strangers (and yourself) because some other stranger somewhere else reportedly said something unkind about some other guy who reputedly talked to a god a long long time ago.
The Jerry Springer show was never so weird as any ol' day in the life of human religious belief.
by Andhakari on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:23:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If only we could have a sign of what the real intention was.

-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:09:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by das monde on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:51:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm pretty certain that a fellow who we now call Jesus existed. I'm sure he was a person whose birth fulfilled certain Jewish predictions about uniting two jewish royal bloodlines to create a new jewish kingdom, (probably) free of roman rule. (I repeat jewish because it's important to remember that Christianity would have represented heresy to the religion which jesus himself practiced).

to this end he deliberately set about ensuring that he was blemish free in the eyes of god by being seen to observe many rituals, being endorsed by people who were populist preachers. his entry into Jerusalem was stage managed to fit certain prophetic criteria.

But, beyond that, who knows ? Was he really betrayed ? Or was that stage managed too ? Did he die on the cross or was that some obscure hermetic stunt ? Did he escape to Egypt, or not ?

who knows ? I know I, for one, don't really care

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:58:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen:
stage managed

Or written into the scenario after the fact? (All those "as it was written in the prophets" bits look like post facto justification).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 05:58:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now see, a tabloid editor would say the exact opposite: who cares if he existed as long as he had sex.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 04:59:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are times when I feel the same way about myself.
by Andhakari on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 05:14:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That doesn't follow. His wife might have been a virgin, just like his mother.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 05:17:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's OK, you'd just need a different headline:

"WAS JESUS GAY?"

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 10:27:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nah...
According to a handout issued at a recent seminar, signs of homosexuality in boys may include preferences for tight, light-coloured clothes and large handbags, local media reported.


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 11:40:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"You're not my real dad!"


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 11:29:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Won't dear Leader object ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:46:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Won't some Christians be personally offended?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 05:47:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
lol... don't forget the legion who will say 'yes i knew it!

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:13:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How so? The hate speech dimension is missing in the debate. It's not a film hoping to provoke violence from brown people in order to bomb them or as a contribution to debate of immigration issues. It is not violating the space dedicated to worship either, so where is the problem?
by Katrin on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:29:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
By questioning dogma, or questioning their own dogmatic interpretation of scripture. I mean
Was Jesus:
  • married?
  • living in sin with a hooker?
  • in a gay relationship with "the disciple whom Jesus loved"?
  • all of these?
would have been "heresy" not so many centuries ago.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:47:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I wouldn't have written it not so many centuries ago. No fool, me.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:59:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, you're writing it now in an indelible medium. When the Christians and/or Muslims take over Europe, they're going to dig back in the Internet to find heretics like you so they can purify the population...
by asdf on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 01:11:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, we are living in the 21st century. Each era has its own debate how to interpret scripture, and its own taboos.

Discussing the man Jesus has an impact on dogma, but it isn't new, and it isn't taboo. There are several pieces of evidence that suggest that Jesus was married, and this clashes with the dogma of celibacy. Well, a lot clashes with that dogma, and I am not overly interested in celibacy anyway. I can't imagine any other topic where this question has implications.

Personally I find the absence of explicit references to Jesus's sexuality and marital status most conclusive: if there was anything exciting in the eyes of his contemporaries, they would have mentioned it. So, most likely he was married.

by Katrin on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:22:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, we are living in the 21st century. Each era has its own debate how to interpret scripture, and its own taboos.

And each religious nutter out there has their own criteria for what's offensive and what the appropriate punishment for offenders should be.

Remember The Last Temptation of Christ?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:32:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My take on Last Temptation was that the real temptation wasn't "dominion of the earth" or "hott chix" - it was the thought of being a normal man with a family, and not to have to carry the sins of the world.

(So basically the middle class dream, I guess :) )

-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:41:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Number 6:
(So basically the middle class dream, I guess :) )

lol...

i always conjectured that his message would have propagated much further if he had stuck around a full life making furniture and just being wise. a normal family life, dealing with his rebellious adolescent kids etc.

the gory bits ensure faster mass retelling i guess, but with the odd rider that between the lines messages: go up against the man and this is what will happen to you. fat lot of use it'll be to you to become a dead icon, no matter how many other martyrs the story engenders.
 

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 08:18:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Vividly. But this isn't satire, it is a fragment of an old text being examined by archeologists. It's not even unambiguous proof for Jesus being having been married: we don't know the context or who the author was. I don't quite understand the excitement.

It is conceivable that a religious nutter or two will feel offended. Even three, possibly. I don't think reasonable believers will be offended though :)

by Katrin on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:44:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Katrin:
I don't quite understand the excitement.

Which was actually my point in the first place, in mocking the journalistic haste to decree a "debate".

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:46:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Vividly. But this isn't satire, it is a fragment of an old text being examined by archeologists.

It is ancient heresy being publicised by atheists. It must be cleansed with fire along with any evidence of its existence.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 09:37:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is the author of the article.
Karen L. King was appointed to the Divinity School in 1998 and from 2003 to 2009 served as the Winn Professor of Ecclesiastical History. In October 2009, she became the first woman appointed as the Hollis Professor of Divinity, the oldest endowed chair in the United States (1721).
Does Harvard now hire atheists as professors of Divinity?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 09:46:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not atheists, but heretics definitely
Selected Publications

  • Reading Judas: The Gospel of Judas and the Shaping of Christianity (Viking, 2007) Publisher page
  • The Secret Revelation of John (Harvard University Press, 2006) Publisher page
  • The Gospel of Mary of Magdala: Jesus and the First Woman Apostle (Polebridge Press, 2003) Publisher page
  • What Is Gnosticism? (Harvard University Press, 2003) Publisher page


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 09:59:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Mig, you are in the wrong century, come out there.
by Katrin on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 10:00:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nah, I'm just making use of all the practice acquired playing Dungeons and Dragons in my youth.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 10:01:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's heresy today too. What has changed is that there are more institutional protections for heretics today, Pussy Riot notwithstanding.
by santiago on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:10:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you mean that there are fewer institutional threats to heretics today.

Though nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:40:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I do mean more protections.  The threats may be as much, or more, than ever.  But liberal democracy, and the values and powers that maintain it, explicitly protect our right to be heretics.  
by santiago on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:56:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And I mean that, in liberal democracies (and some illiberal non-democracies), religions no longer wield the institutional power they used to.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 05:02:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I agree, but we have to ask why that is. Did religion's power just go away on its own as a function of a battle of ideas, or was religion deliberately pushed out of power through the institutions introduced by by up and coming the bourgeoisie class, whose power depended on wealth creation and urbanization (capitalism) and not the authority of the church?  
by santiago on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:08:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The process started much earlier, with the smash-and-grab by the North European princes against the holdings of the Catholic Church. You could make a fairly persuasive argument that the rise of European secularism is related to the consolidation of state-level power at the expense of both the rural gentry and the remnants of Roman imperial authority.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 10:19:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, that's a good point as well.
by santiago on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 11:31:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, there's an interesting question of the historical development of today's situation, to which both you and Jake suggest elements of reponse.

I'd add that there was in fact a battle of ideas, that of scientific thought against religious authority. Major phases that are known to most people in the Western world today are the flat earth/round earth controversy and Darwin's theory of natural selection. Most people in the W.w. are also aware that proponents of scientific thought were prosecuted by the Church on grounds of heresy. However, scientific thought won the battle hands down (except for a fringe of denialists and/or the abysmally ignorant). It has followed that the charge of heresy, and the authority of the Church to administer judgement and punishment with regard to it, have singularly lost potency in the mass mind.

Of course, one could reasonably argue that scientific thought (like the Protestant Reformation) was the brainchild of a rising literate bourgeoisie. In fact there is historically no debate of pure ideas, ideas being conceived and developed by human beings living for a limited period in dynamically-evolving socio-economic power structures that inform their frames of conscious and unconscious thinking. Yet the major advances of scientific thought have shifted the nature of religious thinking (bar the above-mentioned fringe) from absolutist and hierarchical-authoritarian to (in the direction of) relativist and individual-personal. Religious groups have lost their power to convincingly proclaim dogma and hence heresy.

So, to return to my heresy (or rather blasphemy) above, the reason why I am not in fear and trembling (pace asdf) is not that I rely on democratic guarantees (nice though they are to have), but that the bogeyman of religious persecution has disappeared.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2012 at 02:28:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Note that the flat theory theory is a later myth. No educated people believed in it in the Middle Ages. The amazing thing is that people later could even believe that it was believed in - they were probably familiar with Dante's Commedia, in which the earth is a sphere and in which one could sail to the antipode of Jerusalem (even if, as Odysseus found out, it's not a good idea to do so).
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2012 at 02:49:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, spherical construction was standard medieval (spheres within spheres). And "flat earth" is an over-simplification of the later controversy. Let's say that's the tag it later again received as the myth-structure changed in favour of scientific thought.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2012 at 03:05:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that the battle of ideas has something to do with it.  After all, truth is ultimately a more compelling argument than falsehood.  Even lies are compelling only to the extent that people believe them to be true.  

However, I think the battle for ideas is best understood as a subset within larger contests for power, particularly when it comes to who is protected from whom in society.  The ideas about which we would be battling today would be much different if that group of pirates and adventurers had not been able to trade and plunder the world with big boats and guns and thus gain the capacity to  to contest power with kings and the church and create the modern state in the process.  

by santiago on Thu Sep 20th, 2012 at 10:42:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
After all, truth is ultimately a more compelling argument than falsehood.

If only.

Even lies are compelling only to the extent that people believe them to be true.

That's a separate argument.

I think the battle for ideas is best understood as a subset within larger contests for power,

Only partly.

There are really only two kinds of relationships - cooperative, and exploitative. (Technically there's also indifference, but that's not so relevant here.)

Ideologies and belief systems are contests between cooperate and exploitative modes of relationship. The content of the ideologies is only of interest to anthropologists. The important factor is the degree to which the two modes are narrativised, justified, and influential of actual policy.

The Church, like banking, was very good at justifying exploitative relationships through ideology. The religious content was noise and misdirection. The practical social content created a feudal society in which most of the population was exploited for the benefit of a minority.

Banking and economics is just a reinvention of the same idea with different content. Practically, from a policy point of view, the politics and the relationships are largely indistinguishable.

Meanwhile the former communist cultures used a pretence of cooperation to build an even less cooperative culture.

The beginnings of a cooperative culture existed for a while with Western Social Democracy. But there was never enough of an ideological base to give the project unstoppable momentum. So inevitably it started to lapse back to an exploitative mode.

There has never been a truly cooperative culture in the West. There may have been cooperative cultures elsewhere and in the distant past, but predation is a continuous threat and a continuous political influence.

OWS have some interesting insights into practical cooperation. I don't expect the current iteration to reach its goals, but I do think there will be a philosophical legacy that will bear fruit a few decades from now.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2012 at 10:58:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Banking and economics is just a reinvention of the same idea with different content. Practically, from a policy point of view, the politics and the relationships are largely indistinguishable.

Agreed.  Well said.

But by "cooperation" I presume you mean a non-coerced relationship and by exploitation I presume you mean coerced.  Both, in the political theory literature anyway, are what "power" means -- gaining cooperation in a group project by either voluntary or coerced means. (Deborah Stone, Hannah Arrendt)  

What we know about power is that just because it doesn't look like exploitation is happening doesn't mean it isn't. People are often duped into voluntarily cooperating in ways that injure their interests if they only had a better idea about what their possibilities could be.  For example, women are still paid less than men on average in most, if not all, liberal democracies but voluntarily cooperate in enterprises that preserve that particular relationship.

I suspect that things may well have been more cooperative and better for peasants and commoners in pre-modern days than you may be allowing for.

by santiago on Thu Sep 20th, 2012 at 11:22:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, and slavery was good for the slaves in the USA in the first half of the 19th century.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2012 at 11:24:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But peasants weren't slaves and usually would have had more freedom and independence with their time in their self-sufficient rural households than most us who live in modern cities enjoy today. The worlds are too vastly different to make like comparisons.
by santiago on Thu Sep 20th, 2012 at 11:29:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Um, under feudal systems most peasants wre tied to the land and didn't enjoy freedom of movement. Freedom of movement for the little people was not really a concept enshrined in law or custom. Just look at the poor laws and vagrancy laws that persisted all through the early modern and modern periods until well into the 20th century, where not being able to show proof of residence could land you in jail. Or where you were simply not allowed to move at all.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2012 at 11:47:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Graeber argues that, since farming techniques improved compared to Roman times while city populations declined, living conditions for most peasants weren't all that bad compared to Rome or the beginning of the Industrial Revolution.

Von überall könnte das Volk, Urbrut alles Undemokratischen, Zelle des Terrors, über die gewählten Hüter von Wachstum und Wohlstand® kommen. - flatter
by generic on Thu Sep 20th, 2012 at 12:14:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe, but then you got overpopulation of the countryside. Then after the Black Death you got another improvement, but the backlash from the powerful quickly meant that people lost the freedom they might have otherwise enjoyed due to their smaller numbers
The great population loss brought economic changes based on increased social mobility, as depopulation further eroded the peasants' already weakened obligations to remain on their traditional holdings. In the wake of the drastic population decline brought on by the plague, authorities in Western Europe worked to maintain social order through instituting wage controls. These governmental controls were set in place to ensure that workers received the same salary post-plague as they had before the onslaught of the Black Death. Within England, for example, the Ordinance of Labourers, created in 1349, and the Statute of Labourers, created in 1351, restricted both wage increases and the relocation of workers. If workers attempted to leave their current post, employers were given the right to have them imprisoned. The Statute was strictly enforced in some areas. For example, 7,556 people in the county of Essex were fined for deviating from the Statute in 1352.[21] However, despite examples such as Essex, the Statute quickly proved to be difficult to enforce due to the scarcity of labour.
These kinds of policies were one of the sources of the peasant revolts of the second half of the 14th Century.
In Western Europe, the sudden shortage of cheap labour provided an incentive for landlords to compete for peasants with wages and freedoms, an innovation that, some argue[weasel words], represents the roots of capitalism, and the resulting social upheaval "caused" the Renaissance, and even the Reformation. In many ways the Black Death and its aftermath improved the situation of surviving peasants, notably by the end of the 15th century. In Western Europe, labourers gained more power and were more in demand because of the shortage of labour. In gaining more power, workers following the Black Death often moved away from annual contracts in favour of taking on successive temporary jobs that offered higher wages. Workers such as servants now had the opportunity to leave their current employment to seek better-paying, more attractive positions in areas previously off limits to them. Another positive aspect of the period was that there was more fertile land available to the population; however, the benefits would not be fully realized until 1470, nearly 120 years later, when overall population levels finally began to rise again. In England, the higher wages for workers combined with sinking prices on grain products led to a problematic economic situation for the gentry. As a result they started to show an increased interest for offices like justice of the peace, sheriff and member of parliament. The gentry took advantage of their new positions and a more systematic corruption than before spread. A result of this was that the gentry as a group became highly disliked by commoners in general.

In Eastern Europe, by contrast, renewed stringency of laws tied the remaining peasant population more tightly to the land than ever before through serfdom. Sparsely populated Eastern Europe was less affected by the Black Death and so peasant revolts were less common in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, not occurring in the east until the sixteenth through nineteenth centuries. Since it is believed to have in part caused the social upheavals of fourteenth- and fifteenth-century Western Europe, some see the Black Death as a factor in the Renaissance and even the Reformation in Western Europe. Therefore, some historians have cited[citation needed] the smaller impact of the plague as a contributing factor in Eastern Europe's failure to experience either of these movements on a similar scale. Extrapolating from this, the Black Death may be seen as partly responsible for Eastern Europe's considerable lag in the move to liberalise government by restricting the power of the monarch and aristocracy. A common example is that by the mid-sixteenth century, England began the process that ultimately ended serfdom there and gave rise to representative government; meanwhile, Russia did not formally abolish serfdom until an autocratic tsar decreed so in 1861.

So, yeah, being a peasant in Europe after 1350 was really the epitome of freedom.

Obviously those three paragraphs of the Wiki article need refactoring. What a mess!

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 20th, 2012 at 12:27:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That was the surf system mostly, not the general feudal system, and it wasn't particularly onerous of restricting in the first place because for most people of any pre-modern period you were tied to the land because your family needed you and you needed them to survive, and your life was based on seasonal cycles not daily labor time periods. It didn't really matter if your lord and protector put rules on movement that couldn't really be enforced anyway, because you stayed with the people you loved in your self-sufficient household for the most part.
by santiago on Thu Sep 20th, 2012 at 02:33:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Doh! [serf system]
by santiago on Thu Sep 20th, 2012 at 03:07:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not a film hoping to provoke violence from brown people in order to bomb them or as a contribution to debate of immigration issues.

The intent of the work has nothing to do with whether people will be offended. You tell me what Rushdie's Satanic Verses and the sorry escuse for a film that sparked protests last week have in common.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:48:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There were notable protests  only in the Arab spring countries and in the WOT war zones. I doubt that Salman Rushdie's breaking a taboo would incite much of a reaction nowadays. This--the breaking of a taboo--is the only thing they have in common. Intent is an important feature: Rushdie's was discoursive, the film's is not.
by Katrin on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:09:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I doubt that Salman Rushdie's breaking a taboo would incite much of a reaction nowadays.
BBC: Salman Rushdie: Satanic Verses 'would not be published today' (17 September 2012)

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:10:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Disagree. Compare with the protests against the film: boring. A few hundreds of protesters burning an American flag or two. And there is no reason to believe Salman Rushdie's book would incite more of a reaction.
by Katrin on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:30:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Katrin:
I doubt that Salman Rushdie's breaking a taboo would incite much of a reaction nowadays.

er, no actually

Iran reissues fatwa on Salman Rushdie as film protests spread | Islam film row News | The Week UK

Ayatollah reinstates 1989 death sentence and raises bounty on novelist's head to $3.3m LAST UPDATED AT 09:00 ON Mon 17 Sep 2012

AN IRANIAN ayatollah has reinstated the fatwa calling for the death of Salman Rushdie, saying the anti-Islam film Innocence of Muslims, which has triggered a wave of violent protests across the Muslim world, would never have been made if Rushdie had been killed.

and if pigs had flown bananas would be purple.

theology at its finest!

 

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 08:24:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's the Iranian leadership, yes. They have obvious reasons. But where is the resonance among Muslims, the normal Ali Sixpacks? There is much less "Muslim anger" than our media claim (and apparently want to incite).
by Katrin on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 09:21:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Leadership? Maybe you missed this bit
Ayatollah Sanei is the personal representative of Iran's Supreme Leader on a powerful state foundation which provides relief for the poor, according to The Daily Telegraph.
The Economist, on the other hand, says
"I have decided to increase the reward, to make the fatwa everlasting and encourage its execution," said Ayatollah Hassan Sanei, the foundation's little known head.
This was in 1998. Maybe he's become better known since then, but, if so, Google doesn't seem to have noticed it until a few days ago (His Wikipedia entry is almost nonexistent, as compared with his sane brother Yousef)
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 09:30:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I missed it. That supports my point even more, doesn't it? Are we seeing the propaganda effort explaining the coming Iran war?
by Katrin on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 09:52:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Katrin:
They have obvious reasons.

more obvious than the reasons prompting the wave of reaction we see today for the psyops film.

the title 'innocence of muslims' doubtless refers to how easy it is to yank their chain.

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 10:33:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can I just say how much I love the phrase "Ali Sixpack"?


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 11:30:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You're welcome. One of my favourite "Muslim rage tweets" was "The waiter didn't tell me it was pork. So furious I dropped my wine glass."
by Katrin on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 12:07:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's no astrology involved. At least, not yet.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:38:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Did Jesus smoke?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:42:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Only when a lighted match was applied.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:45:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, big part of his act. That's what "Smoke on the water" is really about.

-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:47:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Here is the full translation, so that you can see exactly what we're talking about:
1 ] "not [to] me. My mother gave to me li[fe..."

2 ] The disciples said to Jesus, ".[

3 ] deny. Mary is worthy of it

4 ]......" Jesus said to them, "My wife . .[ [

5 ]... she will be able to be my disciple . . [

6 ] Let wicked people swell up ... [

7] As for me, I dwell with her in order to . [

8] an image [

1 ] my moth[er

2 ] three [

3 ] ... [

4 ] forth which ... [

5 ] (illegible ink traces)

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:34:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So this was from twitter?


-----
sapere aude
by Number 6 on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:13:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course he was married. He was found discussing scripture with the senior rabbis in the Temple. They wouldn't have given him time of day unless he was also a rabbi, and you can't be a rabbi unless you're married.

And why pester him about the drinking arrangements for the wedding at Canaa ? You don't normally pester guests and certainly the toast master wouldn't have congratulated him on the quality of the victuals unless he was centrally involved. So, it must have been his wedding

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:46:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Check Luke 2:42-51.  He was twelve years old. You can't be married in Judaism at that age (or be a rabbi)....
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 04:20:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I seem to recall having already pointed this out to Helen.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:00:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
given that the synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke) they weren't written till at least a century later, and more as propaganda by Paul than as records of his life), the youth could have been exaggerated.

But the rabbis of the Temple would not have discussed anything with him as an equal unless he too was a rabbi

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:33:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In which case the whole story could have been made up....
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:41:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Paul wasn't alive "at least a century later".

See the summary of dating hypotheses for the gospels in Wikipedia. (And don't say Wikipedia is rubbish because you think something different).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:22:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But the rabbis of the Temple would not have discussed anything with him as an equal unless he too was a rabbi

You don't think they might have had fun chatting with a precocious kid? All that needs to have been made up was verse 49.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:37:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In addition, they were not discussing with him as an equal:

41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.

42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.

43 And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it.

44 But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.

45 And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him.

46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

They were just treating him as an equal to the students.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 11:46:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Evidence that Jesus was a rabbi shouldn't be based on this childhood incident. As an adult he became a teacher and taught in the synagogues as well as in the temple (Luke 21, 37-38). He was addressed as "Rabbi":

Rabbi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The title "Rabbi" occurs (in Greek transliteration ῥαββί rhabbi) in the books of Matthew, Mark and John in the New Testament, where it is used in reference to "Scribes and Pharisees" as well as to Jesus.

But see the footnote to that quote ("70" being AD 70, the destruction of the temple):

Catherine Hezser The social structure of the rabbinic movement in Roman Palestine 1997 -Page 59 "b - Rabbi as an Honorary Address ...Since Jesus was called "Rabbi" but did not conform to the traditional image of post-70 Jewish rabbis, and since pre-70 sages do not bear the title "Rabbi" in the Mishnah,29 most scholars assume that the meaning and usage of the term "Rabbi" at the time of Jesus differed from the meaning which it acquired after the destruction of the Temple: in pre-70 times, "Rabbi" was used as an unofficial honorary address for any person held in high esteem; after 70 it was almost exclusively applied to ordained teachers of the Law.

There is no mention, in the legends embodied in the Gospels, of Jesus being ordained.

And, even had he become an ordained rabbi, he was not under an absolute obligation to be married. Here are two modern takes on the question from rabbis:

Must one be married to qualify as a rabbi?

...every Jew is obligated to marry. The first Mitzvah in the Torah is: "Be fruitful and multiply."

Rabbis are no different than any other Jew--whichever rules apply to all Jews apply to rabbis as well, and vice versa
Yet if for whatever reason a candidate for the rabbinate hasn't yet found his soul mate, that doesn't automatically disqualify him.

Conservative Rabbi - Are rabbis required to marry?

in Jewish law, the European gloss of R. Isserles on the Shulchan Arukh OH 581:1 states that only one who is married may lead the congregation in worship - note that this is the Hazzan/Shaliah Tzibbur and not the Rabbi whose function may only have been to teach.

How does that relate to Rabbis today? Most Rabbis marry. They marry for the companionship and children, but also in doing so they can better understand the dynamics of the family, which they are often called upon to counsel. Most Rabbis are fortunate enough to find an appropriate mate, even in this very complicated world.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 12:35:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And now I am doing the debate on whether Jesus was married.

Hoist with my own petard.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 12:44:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, but did he own his own clothes ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:44:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not offering that childhood incident as evidence he was a rabbi, just in fact realising that the text doesn't say he was teaching anything to the scholars at the temple as the "popular" view often has it, but just that he impressed onlookers with his ability/boldness to hold a conversation with the scholars.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 02:41:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I got that, and agree.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:02:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The key thing about 'biblical' evidence is that most of it comes down through hearsay, mistranslation and the radical editing of many texts to suit the political ambitions of the editors of the time. The Bible is basically Reader's Digest. If, in 200 years, one's only source for historical information of our current era was a skipload of random redtops, one would be misguided about the nature of society.

Going back to the sources, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls (BC), or the most recent discovery, would seem to offer a more reliable method of understanding the intentions of the original text within the historical context - about which we know more, though not enough. The Scrolls have been attributed to the Essenes in the past, but more recently to the Sadducees. The Scrolls are also Reader's Digest, but the state and location in which they were found would seem to indicate that this collection of writings was regarded as significant enough to be concealed, ands therefore remained 'unedited' until discovery in 1947.

And we do know something about the Essenes - or Pious Ones. The historical figure of Jesus, as described by others, was an Essene. The Essenes had Rabbi's (teachers) but while some rabbis were celibate, a minority were married - for the purpose of procreation. The Multipliers.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 03:53:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
they did marry young back then in some societies...

maybe he was burly for his age, before the essene austerities.

maybe he was bi.

It's a fine line between homage, parody, and consumer opportunism. Jess Walter

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 10:38:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The wedding at Cana is only told in John ch 2. I'm not competent in New Testament Greek, but modern translations say (v. 2) "Jesus was invited to the marriage, with his disciples".
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:20:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If he was only a guest, then the story is rubbish cos he would never have been involved.

If he is described as a guest, that could have been because the writer wished to obscure Jesus' marital status

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:36:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't there a possibility of linguistic confusion between 'host' and 'guest', or with the verb 'to invite'?

Examples abound: in French apprendre means both to teach and to learn.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 06:45:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is the Greek text with an interline literal translation (C19 because in public domain, but there is no reason to doubt the translation):

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:18:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:19:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It really doesn't matter what sort of old documents might be found now. This has all been formalized by the Christian churches a long time ago.

...the phrase Canon of Trent usually refers to the list of biblical books that were from then on to be considered canonical. This was a decree, the De Canonicis Scripturis, from the Council's fourth session, of 4 April 1546, which passed by vote (24 yea, 15 nay, 16 abstain). With its decision, the Council of Trent confirmed the identical list already locally approved in 1442 by the Council of Florence (Session 11, 4 February 1442), and that had existed in the earliest canonical lists from the synods of Carthage and Rome in the fourth century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_of_Trent

Unless you want to rewind the clock back to about 300 AD, the contents of the Bible should be considered as fixed.

by asdf on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 01:45:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's a groovy YouTube to while a few minutes away:



Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 07:26:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Groovy, if staring at the end of civilisation rocks your boat

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 04:00:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think civilization will continue to carry on.  The entire network is fairly robust.

Wouldn't be buying land in the Fens as a long term investment, tho'.  :-)

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 11:47:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
you're more optimistic than me.

Starving people tend to be destructive

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 12:17:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Guardian: Malaysia holds seminars to help teachers spot 'gay children' (14 September, 2012)
So far, the Teachers Foundation of Malaysia has organised 10 seminars across the country. Attendance at the last event on Wednesday reached 1,500 people, a spokesman for the organisation said.

"It is a multi-religious and multicultural [event], after all, all religions are basically against that type of behaviour," said the official.

...

The latest seminar for the teachers and parents was run by deputy education minister Puad Zarkashi, his office confirmed.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 10:10:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 02:42:16 PM EST
Santiago Carrillo, emblematic Communist leader, dies aged 97 | In English | EL PAÍS

Santiago Carrillo, the leader of the Spanish Communist Party between 1960 and 1982, died in Madrid on Tuesday afternoon at the age of 97, his family has confirmed. Carrillo had been admitted to hospital in July due to blood circulation problems but was later discharged.

A revolutionary from a young age, Carrillo began working for left-wing newspaper El Socialista in 1930 and at just 19 years of age he was elected secretary general of the Socialist Youth. That same year, 1934, Carrillo formed part of the National Revolutionary Committee that attempted an insurrection against the Catholic conservative Spanish Federation of the Autonomous Right, which had come to power in the November elections of 1933. The workers' uprising was led by Francisco Largo Caballero, the future Civil War prime minister who would become the foil for Carrillo's early political life. Both men were jailed for their involvement and while in prison Carrillo distanced himself from the increasingly moderate Largo Caballero.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 03:59:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
French Judge bans topless Kate pictures - The Local
A French court on Tuesday banned Closer magazine from any further publication or resale of topless pictures of Prince William's wife Catherine.

 An injunction granted by the court also ordered the magazine to hand over all files of the pictures in its possession to representatives of the royal couple within 24 hours and said it would be fined €10,000 ($13,000) for every day's delay.

The ruling prevents Closer, which published the pictures on Friday, from reusing them in print or on its website, as well as from selling them to markets where they have not been published.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2012 at 04:05:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Money grubbing parasites v unelected spongers. Hard to take sides.
On the other hand: Behold ye, British tabloids, what actual privacy law looks like.

Hand over all files? What planet are they on and have they any idea what a computer is?

-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Wed Sep 19th, 2012 at 07:18:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Display:
Go to: [ European Tribune Homepage : Top of page : Top of comments ]