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European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 22-23 September

by ceebs Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 03:08:55 PM EST

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Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:22:07 PM EST
BBC News - Andrew Mitchell under mounting pressure in 'police insult' row

Pressure is mounting on Conservative minister Andrew Mitchell after police leaders urged him to resign and Labour called for a full account of his outburst at an officer.

The Tory Chief Whip denies claims he swore at a policeman on duty outside Downing Street and called him a "pleb".

The officer concerned has insisted reports of what happened are accurate.

Mr Mitchell has apologised but Labour said No 10 "must make clear" the exact words he used in the confrontation.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:35:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Government of public-school shits.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 04:56:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well that was a quite eye opening Newsnight, the Police Chief on there implied that Cameron wasn't sincere over comments made whilst in Manchester visiting the police force that has had two police women killed in a gun and apparently grenade incident. to much shock from others there.

then we have opposition politicians  commenting

Twitter / TomHarrisMP: So, either the police were ...

So, either the police were lying or Mitchell was. The PM is not sacking Mitchell so presumably he thinks the former?

Twitter / Paul_Burgin: @TomHarrisMP In a nutshell ...

@TomHarrisMP In a nutshell and that adds weight to police chiefs comments on #newsnight


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 06:55:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Grant Shapps posed as web guru at $3,000-a-head Las Vegas conference | Politics | The Guardian

Grant Shapps, the Conservative party chairman, posed as a "multimillion-dollar web marketer" named Michael Green who spoke to reveal the secrets of his trade at a $3,000-a-head internet conference in Las Vegas while he was the Tory party candidate for Welwyn Hatfield.

The pictorial evidence of his double life, revealed online by a fellow conference speaker, will pile pressure on Shapps to explain his links to a network of websites which have been blocked by Google for breaching its rules on copyright infringement and encouraging customers to plagiarise content.

But at the age of 35, Shapps claimed already to have established "the world's largest internet marketing forum". A few years later while a member of the shadow cabinet, he also had time to run phone lines where for $297 an hour Green would give tips to aspiring entrepreneurs.




Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 06:56:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's one who's not a public-school shit, just an Internet rip-off merchant.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 02:03:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The only important thing is being rich. Rip off people on the internet, by financial scams or by inheriting your position, as long as you are successfull at it.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 04:29:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also known as 'We're all in this together.'

For strictly limited and exclusive values of 'we'.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 05:04:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Andrew Mitchell said he "did not blame" people who wanted to hurt aid volunteer - Telegraph

Andrew Mitchell allegedly told the volunteer's father that he "did not blame" party members who had threatened her with "physical violence".

Lucy Kinder, 25, took part in the overseas aid trip August 2009 when Mr Mitchell was allegedly angered by an article she was planning to write about the visit.

Miss Kinder, who is now a trainee journalist at The Daily Telegraph, says Mr Mitchell told her she had "betrayed the trust" of both him and the Conservative party.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 07:45:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The article is worth reading. Appalling story.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 02:04:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How Andrew Mitchell turned his anger on me - Telegraph

The call came in at around midnight. I was trying to get some sleep on what was a miserable 36 hour coach journey from Kigali to Dar Es Salaam.

After a fortnight spent trying to help Rwandan teachers speak English with a group of enthusiastic Conservative volunteers, Andrew Mitchell, the then shadow international development secretary, was on the phone. And he was furious.

He had found out that I had written an article which he feared would "damage" the Conservative Party. "You have betrayed the trust of me and the Conservative Party," he told me.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 12:18:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Andrew Mitchell said he "did not blame" people who wanted to hurt aid volunteer - Telegraph
A Conservative Party official said: "Hundreds of MPs and activists have worked on Project Umubano under Andrew Mitchell and this is the only time anyone has ever complained.

And the one that complained got ditched in another country to find her own way home. Might affect how much people complain.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 04:34:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Shows he's got form tho', which lends more credibility to the police version :-))

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 08:51:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC News - Turkey trial: Three army generals jailed for 'coup plot'

A Turkish court has sentenced three former army generals to 20 years in jail each for plotting a coup.

Nearly 330 other officers - including some senior military figures - were also convicted for their involvement in the plot.

Thirty-four people were acquitted. All the defendants denied the charges.

The officers were accused of plotting to bomb mosques and trying to trigger a war with Greece in order to justify a military coup.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:37:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC News - Bullfighting declared legal in France

France's Constitutional Council, a top legal authority, has rejected a plea from animal rights campaigners to ban bullfighting.

The campaigners wanted the fights categorised as cruelty to animals.

But the judges said the "traditional" fights, held in areas of southern France, "do not harm people's protected constitutional rights".

More than 1,000 bulls are killed annually in French bullfights, the AFP news agency reports.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:38:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Bullfighting declared legal in France"

Bullfighting has been declared not contrary to the constitution.

The legal right to hold bullfights is complicated and depends on the capacity to prove an unbroken tradition of bullfighting in the locality in question. Hence, in most of France, bullfighting is not legal.

(The BBC is such rubbish).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 04:56:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought it would be typical UK reporting of things in Europe

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 05:58:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bingo.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 02:06:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
EU pushes for effective sanctions on Syria - Xinhua | English.news.cn

The international diplomatic collective Friends of the Syria gathered in Scheveningen on Thursday to talk about strengthening sanctions, including an oil and arms embargo against Syria.

The group is a collective of over 70 countries and bodies convening periodically on the conflict-torn country.

European Union imposed sanctions this month, depriving the regime of President Bashar al-Assad of a quarter of its earnings denominated in foreign currency, forcing the country to reduce production from 380,000 barrels a day to about 250,000 barrels a day one month later.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:50:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Beppe Grillo's Blog

Presentation by Paolo Becchi, Professor of the Philosophy of Law in the Faculty of Jurisprudence at the University of Genoa: "Napolitano I's 18 Brumaire and the M5S"

"We are getting near the end: the end of the presidential term of office for Napolitano, and the end of the sixteenth legislature of the Italian Republic that was split into two phases with the passage of power from Berlusconi to Monti. And yet work goes on to "block" the system, even though there are the end of office moments coming up - and there are imminent elections - and this is perhaps the reason why it's happening. Napolitano has declared that he will continue to "be watchful" in relation to respect for the commitments made to the EU. King Giorgio will no longer be President, but he is leaving an inheritance to his successor (and who could that be, if not Monti? Ciampi had a "cursus honorum" like that: from President of the Council to Head of State).
The President of the Republic seems to be saying that the forthcoming elections don't count: that all the parties have to accept the continuity of the programme of the Monti government. Paradoxically, the elections are to ensure the continuity of a government that continues to present itself as a "time-limited" experience. Monti insists on saying that the technical government" has just been a "parenthesis": "The experience of the technical government is time-limited [...]. Once the experience of the technical government has gone by, what will remain for the future will be the importance of the capabilities in political activity."

...


In other words, the MoVement must not be just an Opposition, a protest force, an expression of dissent and of the "delusion" of the Italians in relation to the parties. In fact, the delusion, the abstention, the protest vote will not on their own prevent the consolidation of the "Third Republic" (in fact that is largely legitimised with the intervention of the "custodian" of the Constitution, due to the void of abstention-ism and the disapproval shown towards the political parties that were then in government).
It's true: in Parliament, the MoVement can have no role except in Opposition, but that must not "institutionalise it": it must not lose its uncompromising and anti-system momentum. It has to be in the chamber but it must always be outside beyond the Palace. The MoVimento 5 Stelle {5 Star MoVement} now needs a positive and definitive doctrine. It will not be a party for the very reason that it is not destined for compromise. The parties have abstract ideologies that they use like cards to be played at the table of political negotiations. "Ideologies" are created to be compromised with other "ideologies". Campaign groups do not have ideologies: they have a target, an objective. This is why the MoVimento 5 Stelle cannot by definition, "form alliances". And it is with the aim of distorting it, that the newspapers have started to put forward possible election tactics by means of the alliance with the IdV or with SEL - that the MoVement can never accept. Campaign groups work in a single direction. They cannot get lost on the way. They cannot choose to "turn" to the right or to the left. This is why they cannot compromise. This is why the MoVimento 5 Stelle{5 Star MoVement} must remain as a campaign group, it must continue to evolve and it must never stop. This is why, whatever the result of the elections in 2013, it must never re-imagine itself as an Opposition force nor as a Majority force.
This is not its nature. This is not its target. What it should do is to bring Italy out of this mouse trap - out of this political and economic system that is dictated by Europe, and give back sovereignty to the Italians. " Paolo Becchi

like OWS changed the dialogue in the US about the wealth gap abyss, so is the 5* movement changing the dialogue about party politics, almost all the daily news has some discussion of them.

how much the PTB fear their message is clearly measured by the violence of the rhetoric against them from the guardians of the corruptocracy.

The power of knowledge is in mortal combat with the knowledge of power. It really is that simple... That's the Edenic apple we are all munching on.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 11:44:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure what all this means in practice though: Should the 5 Star movement actually win the elections, what happens? How can it then "in Parliament... have no role except in Opposition"? How can it remain as a campaign group only if it is called to power? And once in power, or indeed even in opposition, how can it avoid alliances and tactics?

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 04:51:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Win as in getting a majority of the votes is very unlikely, but they are polling around 15-19% and with Italy's nutty system, who knows?

Next Italian general election - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The election system is a form of party-list proportional representation with a series of thresholds to encourage parties to form coalitions. Italy is divided into a 26 districts for the Chamber of Deputies and 20 regions for the Senate. Each district is assigned a number of seats in proportion to its share of the population. To guarantee a working majority, a coalition or party that obtains a plurality of the vote, but less than 340 seats, is assigned additional seats to reach that number, which roughly is about 54 percent of all seats. Inside each coalition, seats are divided between parties by the D'Hondt method.

The coalition or party that wins a plurality in a region is guaranteed at 55 percent of the region's Senate seats. As this mechanism is region-based, opposing parties or coalitions may benefit from it in different regions. It therefore does not guarantee any party or coalition a majority in the Senate.

I think the point is that since they are not going to enter a coalition before the election, they will not end up in government.

talos:

And once in power, or indeed even in opposition, how can it avoid alliances and tactics?

In opposition - given that the system blatantly gives the majority of the seats to the winner of the plurality who will then not need to make alliances - I get the impression that their strategy will be more aimed at using their platform to advance their core questions among the population then focus on legislative work. It is also my impression that they feel parliament is being sidelined, so grasping for power there will not yield much anyway.

The best example I come up with is UKIP in EP. They are very efficient in pushing their points of view to the general public while not winning any vote in the EP.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 05:16:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's only a choice for voters who have given up on the parliament they are electing. For the UKIP the strategy makes sense, because they are fundamentally opposed to the EP. I am not fundamentally opposed to parliamentary democracy or any of the parliaments I vote on, and I find a campaign like that dangerous. If a movement wants to oppose parliamentarism, fine by me, what kind of democracy are they proposing instead? None?
by Katrin on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 06:05:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I find little in English (there is Beppo Grillo's blog, but I don't find a summary on M5S), so I don't know really what they are for.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 06:36:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
here's a taste...
Blog di Beppe Grillo
I "tecnici" non hanno previsto quello che doveva necessariamente accadere: che il popolo italiano si ribellasse, divenisse finalmente rivoluzionario, comprendesse le umiliazioni a cui questa "Terza Repubblica" lo sottopone. Doveva accadere che un vero movimento di opposizione al potere, al sistema di Bruxelles, alla speculazione parassitaria, alla moneta unica, minacciasse la "pace" politica imposta a colpi di spread. Si lavora, dunque, per riparare a questo "errore di previsione". Per fare in modo che le prossime elezioni assicurino la continuazione della "Terza Repubblica". E, per farlo, è necessaria una cosa soltanto: impedire che il voto si converta in opposizione al sistema di potere; neutralizzare, cioè, il MoVimento a 5 stelle, che oggi incarna l'unica autentica protesta al potere, le uniche parole d'ordine per restituire dignità al popolo italiano: fuori dall'euro e dall'Europa, affermazione di una autentica democrazia al posto di una "casta" tecnocratica di politici e banchieri.
Come neutralizzare, dunque, il MoVimento? Le tecniche di "manipolazione" sono quelle "classiche", dalle più elementari a quelle più complesse.
Prima di tutto, creare spaccature la suo interno: il "fuori onda" in televisione di Favia di questi ultimi giorni ne rappresenta un esempio talmente banale da non dover neppure essere commentato (e già, del resto, pare si sia scoperto che lo "scoop" sarebbe stato "concordato" da Favia). La stampa si schiera: "Repubblica", che ha progressivamente sposato la causa della Terza Repubblica, ha iniziato a guidare la campagna di diffamazione contro il MoVimento 5 Stelle.
Seconda tecnica: definirlo, qualificarlo, ricondurlo ad una "categoria" politica già nota e dispregiativa. Si veda, ad esempio, il recente intervento di Monti: «L'Europa è minacciata dai populismi». E spiega: «c'è il rischio che all'interno dell'Unione Europea, mentre la costruzione dell'Europa si perfeziona, le difficoltà dell'Eurozona facciano emergere una grande, crescente, pericolosa sensibilità nelle opinioni pubbliche dei vari paesi con tendenze all'antagonismo». "Populismo", "tendenza all'antagonismo", "antipolitica": si ricorre a definizioni del tutto vuote ma connotate emotivamente per squalificare una forza politica reale, autentica.
Terza tecnica: "anticipare" i risultati del voto, pronosticarli, prevederli, in modo da influenzarli e determinarli (è la tecnica chiamata della "profezia che si autoadempie", o che "si autoavvera", tipica della speculazione finanziaria). Da qui i "sondaggi" - basti l'esempio di quello realizzato Mannheimer il 9 settembre -: "italiani tentati dal governo tecnico", governo di solidarietà nazionale, "strana" maggioranza, etc.
Quarta tecnica: controllare i meccanismi "tecnici" che disciplinano il voto, ossia lavorare sulla legge elettorale e sul periodo in cui tenere le elezioni. La modifica o meno della legge elettorale si gioca tutta sulla necessità di impedire al MoVimento 5 Stelle di divenire una forza parlamentare attiva.
Queste le tecniche che vediamo oggi e continueremo a vedere all'opera nei prossimi mesi, con l'obiettivo di soffocare l'opposizione degli italiani a questa "svolta" costituzionale dettata dal Presidente della Repubblica e dall'Europa. Ed il MoVimento a 5 Stelle, come potrà reagire? Se esso è, come davvero sembra, una forza reale nel Paese, se esso davvero rappresenta ed incarna le istanze della di una fetta sempre più consistente di italiani e di giovani destinati ad un futuro di miseria, nulla potrà fermarne la forza elettorale. Il problema, se mai, è un altro.
Eleggere dei rappresentanti in Parlamento, non significa necessariamente "vincere" la propria battaglia politica. La democrazia parlamentare tende per sua natura al negoziato, al compromesso, alle "manovre": c'è sempre il pericolo, il rischio, di restare intrappolati e neutralizzati da coalizioni di partito e maggioranze complesse, trasversali, che riescano ad assicurare la continuità del nuovo "sistema" anche contro un MoVimento ben rappresentato alle Camere. È questo che il MoVimento deve evitare: di oscillare, quale semplice forza d'opposizione, tra le correnti che sosterranno una soluzione in continuità con l'asse Napolitano-Monti.
Il MoVimento non deve, in altri termini, essere soltanto un'opposizione, una forza di protesta, un'espressione del dissenso e della "delusione" degli italiani nei confronti dei partiti. La delusione, l'astensione, il voto di protesta non impediranno, infatti, da sé soli, il consolidamento della "Terza Repubblica" (la quale, anzi, si è in larga parte legittimata, con l'intervento del "custode" della Costituzione, proprio grazie al "vuoto" dell'astensionismo e del dissenso ai partiti politici allora al governo).
È vero: in Parlamento, il MoVimento non potrà che svolgere il ruolo dell'opposizione, ma ciò non dovrà "istituzionalizzarlo": non dovrà perdere la sua carica intransigente, anti-sistema. Dovrà essere nell'aula ma sempre fuori, al di là del Palazzo. Il MoVimento 5 Stelle ha ora bisogno di una dottrina positiva e definitiva. Non sarà un partito proprio perché non sarà destinato al compromesso. I partiti hanno ideologie astratte, che servono loro come la carta da giocare sul tavolo del negoziato politico. Le "ideologie" sono fatte per essere compromesse con altre "ideologie". I movimenti non hanno ideologie: hanno un bersaglio, un obiettivo.

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The "technical" does not have foreseen what was bound to happen: that the Italian people rebelled, eventually became revolutionary understood the humiliations to which this "Third Republic" submit it. It had to happen that a real opposition movement to power, Brussels system, the parasitic speculation, the single currency, threatening the "peace" policy imposed on hits spread. You work, therefore, to remedy this "prediction error". To ensure that the forthcoming elections to ensure the continuation of the "Third Republic". And to do that, you need only one thing: to prevent the vote be converted in opposition to the power system and neutralize, ie, the MoVement to 5 stars, which today embodies the only true protest in power, the only words d ' order to restore dignity to the Italian people, out of the euro and Europe, establishment of a genuine democracy instead of a "caste" technocratic politicians and bankers.
How to neutralize, then, the MoVement? The techniques of "manipulation" are those "classic", from the most basic to the most complex.
First of all, create splits the inside: the "off air" television Favia in the last few days is one such example so banal as to not have to even be commented (and yes, indeed, seems to have discovered that the "scoop "would have been" agreed "by Favia). The press row: "Republic", which has gradually espoused the cause of the Third Republic, he began to lead the campaign of vilification against the Movement 5 Stars.
Second technique: define, qualify, reduce it to a "category" policy already known and derogatory. See, for example, the recent intervention of Monti: 'Europe is threatened by populism. " He explains: "There is a risk that within the European Union, while the construction of Europe is perfected, the difficulties of the Eurozone make the emergence of a large, growing, dangerous sensitivity public opinion in various countries all trends 'antagonism'. "Populism", "trend antagonism", "anti-politics" is used in the definitions of all empty but emotionally connoted to disqualify a real political force, authentic.
Third technique, "anticipate" the results of the vote, pronosticarli, predict, in order to influence and determine them (this is the technique called the "self-fulfilling prophecy," or "self-fulfilling", typical of financial speculation). Hence the "polls" - just an example of what made Mannheimer September 9 - "Italian tempted by technical government," government of national solidarity, "strange" majority, etc..
Fourth technique: control mechanisms "technical" governing voting, ie work on the electoral law and the period in which to hold the elections. The amendment of the electoral law or not is played throughout on the need to prevent the Movement 5 Stars to become a parliamentary force active.
These are the techniques that we see today and will continue to see the work in the coming months, with the aim to stifle the opposition of the Italians in this "turn" Constitutional dictated by the President of the Republic and Europe. And MoVement to 5 stars, how will we react? If it is really as it seems, a real force in the country, if it really represents and embodies the demands of an increasing part of Italians and young people destined to a future of misery, nothing can stop its electoral strength. The problem, if anything, is another.
Elect their representatives in Parliament, does not necessarily mean "win" their political battle. Parliamentary democracy tends by its nature to negotiate, to compromise, to "maneuvers": there is always the danger, the risk to be trapped and neutralized by coalitions of party majorities and complex, cross-cutting, that are able to ensure the continuity of new "system" even against a MoVement well represented in the room. This is what the MoVement must be avoided: to oscillate, as a simple opposition force, between the currents that will support a solution in continuity with the axis Napolitano-Monti.
The MoVement should not, in other words, be only an opposition, a force of protest, an expression of dissent and "disappointment" of the Italians against the parties. The delusion, abstention, the protest vote will not stop, in fact, by himself alone, the consolidation of the "Third Republic" (which, indeed, it is largely justified, with the intervention of the "guardian" of the Constitution , thanks to the "void" of dissent and abstention from political parties then the government).
It's true: in Parliament, the MoVement can only play the role of opposition, but it does not have to "institutionalize" should not lose its charge uncompromising, anti-system. Must be in the classroom, but always outside, beyond the palace. The 5 Star MoVement now needs a positive doctrine and final. It will not be a party just because it will be used to compromise. The parties abstract ideologies, which serve as their trump card on the table of political negotiations. The "ideologies" are made to be compromised with other "ideologies." The movements do not have ideologies have a target, a goal.

see why it's not politics-as-usual, though it's unfair to call it anti-political?


The power of knowledge is in mortal combat with the knowledge of power. It really is that simple... That's the Edenic apple we are all munching on.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 07:16:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
i think they want to introduce a different system here, -which is why the most common label pinned on them is 'anti-politica'- ie they are anarchists or something threatening to the media-brainwashed masses, for example those who would still vote for the clown-philanderer of before.

they want to win elections, therefore to my mind they are not above using politics to further their cause, but they abhor the state of politics in italy right now and by winning small -but hopefully often- as mayors then gradually people will see their cities more intelligently and transparently governed, and they can accrue power through example.

then too they can transcend the fiery ferocity of their founder and the public will relate to them as a viable alternative to the status quo, sober, judicious, and eco-logical.

their candidates present very well on tv, when they are on it at all, which thanks to their electoral wins, is increasingly often.

they -maybe deliberately- offset beppe's OTT comedy-as-nervous-breakdown style by being unflashy and grounded, persone serie which italians, particularly in these troubled times seem to find reassuring, no less because they have turned down all public funding, as if to say 'our policies are so strong and sensible, that we will win even with one hand tied behind our backs'.

they could not be more different than UKIP sociopolitically, the only similarity is their rejection of the EU unless it stops doing the bankers' will and stops austerity at once, proving itself really on the side of the PIIGS countries as well instead.

i heartily wish them well, beppe may be a little nuts, but he is sincere and great for whipping up a sense of injustice and attracting interest, willing to work and travel everywhere to get his word out.

italians love him as he is really funny, and has been tenacious about his intention to shake up politics, give it a giant enema, notwithstanding his being banned on state tv and 'made' into a rabidly destructive populist who would run italy off a cliff if given any serious power.

he could have sat back and enjoyed his wealth unconcerned, and instead give those suffering most a voice for their indignity and rage.

it's a bit like if bill hicks had started OWS, and then run some of the better-groomed and telegenic members as county councillors, to use a US-style example.

the more italy goes down the tubes under monti sachs proscriptions, the better i expect the movement to do, as the other political forces in italy are at a new nadir... same circus, same deeply unfunny clowns, all sucked into the corrupt vortex created by the plutocrats, mafia and vatican, all neck deep in eternally renewing scandals.

basically the movement wants to avoid cult of personality and return power to the voters. there are many reasons to like them, for me the strongest are their attitudes to shutting down polluters, combatting organised crime, rolling out rural broadband, promoting alternative energy and cutting the ties between politics and all the corruption that italians have unhappily accepted as normal for decades.

the odds against them are epic, which of course adds much to their charm! ironically their only real hope for more effect is that things continue to get a whole lot worse, which of course they will, as dead horses don't get undead-er even if you whip harder...

the only other lefty movement is syriza, or maybe melenchon in europe, the pirates and kopyists up north. syriza is a lot closer to electoral strength, i'd like to know more about their platform, beyond bailing from the euro, which they do have in common with the 5* folk. i think italy would stay in the euro if it could but would prefer bail than become a german vassal again.

talos?

The power of knowledge is in mortal combat with the knowledge of power. It really is that simple... That's the Edenic apple we are all munching on.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 07:02:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The SYRIZA program in bullet points, roughly. Keep in mind that this is an emergency program so it focuses more on the short term. Some things it does include are highly unlikely to be put in immediate practice (i.e. a NATO exit)...
Generally the left in Europe has been picking up support. Let's see how far that will go.
What about Vendola and SEL aren't they "natural" allies of the 5 Star Movement?

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 05:34:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
talos:
What about Vendola and SEL aren't they "natural" allies of the 5 Star Movement?

i would have thought so, but it seems not. vendola makes nice with bersani, who epitomises shady old guard grifters in a bid for centrist alliance and grillo seems not to hold any politicians except possibly di pietro in any regard whatsoever.

vendola looked promising and has some achievements to admire, but has not gained much traction all in all, partly because the plebiscite is numbed after years of berlu, partly because he's gay.

as forefather of the 5*ers what beppe says is highly relevant, yet it's the principles of the party that are pulling out voters, beppe just adds copious fuel to the fire of discontent growing here. it seems understood that his role will not be in parliament.

thanks for the syriza bullet points, their platform is as synthetic and coherent as it is revolutionary.

no wonder they were denied, there's be a bunch of much slimmer cats on the profit prowl, were they given power.

they too will succeed in direct proportion to the grief of the situation, they seem readier for prime time than the 5*ers, who are more humble still, just beginning to break out really.

syriza is not led by a comic! a mixed blessing perhaps...

if italy heads downhill to greek levels anything could happen. maybe the 5*ers will be able to pull off an italian version of the syriza platform, maybe by spring all of europe will see a lot more sense erupting from below unless those in charge come a lot cleaner with the people, which seems laughably somewhat improbable at this juncture.

The power of knowledge is in mortal combat with the knowledge of power. It really is that simple... That's the Edenic apple we are all munching on.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 04:07:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well it seems that they are polling at second party levels already. I should warn that in a crisis, as we learned in Greece, a people in despair can rapidly decide to attach their hopes on the party that promises an exit from the downward spiral, lightning-fast as far as normal political time is concerned; its like a phase transition happening at some critical societal temperature.
The 5 Star movement should not believe that it will a minority party, because it might be called on by the public to govern. And it has to be prepared.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Tue Sep 25th, 2012 at 07:58:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
talos:
The 5 Star movement should not believe that it will a minority party,

i think we'd see huge unity amidst erstwhile enemies were the 5*ers to poll as leading favourite.

just as with syriza, no?

their clear win at the polls would upend government as we presently know it.

a Good Thing, imho. it really is that rotten.

i wonder if the movement is preparing on any serious level for this... the platform is sound enough for prime time, it remains to be seen what charisma/votability politicians will emerge, if any, considering the present winners are decidedly low-key, forthright but not particularly telegenic by present (marketing) standards.

my hope is that at a certain point the public will be capable to vote for platforms over personalities so it won't matter who are the figureheads.

we're nowhere near there yet, the movement would have to poll in the mid 40%ile before they can hope for a majority strong enough to obviate the need for alliances, and while the growth has been phenomenal this last year, and if continuing this trajectory could be there in another year under monti sachs bitter 'medicine'.

the towns already 5* need to show very clearly the advantages of their policies on a micro, regional level, then they can offer to scale up.

it could/will work, i see no other ray of light on the italian horizon, frankly, though the usual suspects will align in all kinds of acrobatic positions to firewall grillo off from power, their lifetime E20,000 a month pensions depend on it.

it would be interesting to know if there are any backroom discussions going on between syriza and the 'grillini'. one might surmise so...

if spain popped out a party harnessing the indignados, then there could be a new tough-minded, non-violent troika of the peripherals, to push back against the centre right and their financial games, and the fascist struttings of the new order golden dawners.

i don't see why the 5*ers should feel the need to eschew politics for ever, (their toes are already wet) but i do understand their reluctance to enter politics as it is today, preferring to wait till their 'inevitability factor' is strong enough for them to change politics as a condition of entry under their own terms.

a long shot indeed, it is truly a david/goliath situation, it will take a freaking miracle iow. when i think of the forces agin them, from the mob, the vat cabal, and the secret services, P2, all the 'poteri forti' who have been raping this fair land since the last war, i feel the blood leaving my head.

hey talos, any of this resonate with you?

Beppe Grillo's Blog

Journalist Giuseppe Ciulla's Passaparola

"Hi to all the friends of Beppe Grillo's Blog. My name is Giuseppe Ciulla and I am a journalist by profession. I write for television and I also write books and I do this by travelling around along the borders of Europe. This is what I have always done in the past and I recently did it again by taking a trip to Greece.
This trip to Greece will result in another book, which will be coming out within the next few months and is to be published by Chiarelettere.
Why Greece, you ask? Well, because at the moment Greece is the most devastated and battered yet at the same time the most fascinating and beautiful border area to speak of and by telling its story we can begin to understand what Europe is at this time. I had already discovered this a few years ago when I took a trip through the eastern European Countries that had joined the European Union and my thoughts were confirmed once again by this trip to Greece.
I tried to do a trip that would somehow look beyond the clichés of the crisis and that would tell the story that the newspapers have failed to tell. Everything that is being said about Greece is in fact true. It's true that they cooked the books. It is also true that have thousands of public servants who were engaged on the buddy-buddy system and it's also true that the Greeks have done all sorts of dodgy things, of this there is no doubt whatsoever. However, all this aside, the Country has a social fabric and things that no one has spoken about, that the newspapers have failed to mention and that are totally unknown, especially in the glass palaces, the buildings that count, in other words unknown to the European technocrats, to Brussels, Strasburg, and Frankfurt, hence the reason for this trip of mine. During the course of this trip I began to understand that Greece is not a western country as we know it, but Greece is a population of people, more than merely a nation. It is a population that that spends its life looking east and perhaps that is why Greece is not a truly western country by definition. Looking towards the east means looking towards a lost capital, namely Byzantium and Constantinople, so Greece is the result of an exchange of people. Half of the Greek population consists of migrants that came to Greece in 1923 from Asia Minor, Turkey, the Black Sea and the Caucuses, even after the conflict in the Caucuses and it's amazing to hear these stories handed down from generation to generation. It's incredible to realise that the offspring of those who originally undertook that voyage continue to live in torment for the lost capital, for Byzantium.
Amongst the many unknown places that I was able to see and almost touch during this trip was a small little town in the Thracia region, in other words in the border region between Greece and Turkey, which also happens to be the border between the European Union and the non-European Union. This little town is inhabited by the Pomak people. The Pomaks are Bulgarian Muslims. This little town has a Mufti, an Islamic holy man who, every time he hears about a stranger from the Middle East or Afghanistan that tries to cross the Ebros River, which constitutes the border between Turkey and Greece, and whenever any one of these strangers happens to die while attempting the crossing, something that happens rather frequently, this Mufti does the 100 kilometre trip in his van, recovers the stranger's corpse, which is obviously never claimed by anyone else, and proceeds to bury the deceased stranger in his little town, where he has established a cemetery that contains around 400 tombs.
No one knows about this man and what he does, yet I believe that Europe really needs to have a better understanding of the true nature of this border region, which is made up of the courage of men like this Mufti and the fatalism with which most Greeks are enduring this crisis and these particularly difficult times.
I saw the level of depression in Athens, from where I sought to escape whenever possible, as well as the disenchantment that we came across in various parts of Greece, up in the mountains, in Lydia, in what is arguably the poorest region of Greece, in Arcadia and the Peloponnese region. All of these are places where the crisis is very real indeed, something that no one would deny, yet the people are facing it with a level of aplomb and disenchantment that really makes one understand that no one is going to die for the Euro. Then you begin to realise that the real issue is, in fact, that the European Union has become nothing more than just the Euro. This is not the Europe that we dreamed of. When those of my generation, namely the forty-year-olds, were living with the dream, or rather the myth of joining the European Union, we pictured a Europe that would be inclusive, that would welcome all the peoples of Europe with open arms and would provide job opportunities and freedom of movement, but today we are scared and we hate each other. These days there is a divide between northern and southern Europe, with the Northern Countries imposing their reforms because they give money to the countries that are in trouble, while the Southern Countries endure those reforms and obviously take a dim view of and look down upon those who would somehow impose their own will on our Countries.
This is certainly not the Europe that we had in mind, nor are we so afraid of this Europe that is only concerned about the Euro and not at all about identities, about the people that make up the Union, so much so that the people of the Balkan Countries to the East of the European Union that have joined the European Union don't want to have anything to do with the Euro. Like hell they're going to accept this currency that brings with it so many sacrifices!
For example, I followed the progress of the last round of elections and what was interesting to note was that all it took was a mere suspicion that Syriza, the major grouping of left-wing political parties that shot from 4 to 27% support in just a few short months, the mere suspicion that this political grouping could demand that Greece exit from the European Union was sufficient to increase their support from 4 to 27%.
As a matter of fact, Syrizza had never said this openly but the leaders had somehow intimated that this would be the case. Certainly, these days the Euro is being viewed as a sort of cage, not only in Greece but also in other European Countries and no less so in Spain and in Italy and in many other Countries that are in trouble the question that is being asked is: why the hell did we get into this Europe anyway. Why are we here if all we are doing is making sacrifices? Now I don't know whether or not Greece will get out of the Euro zone or whether or not that Country will fail, but what I do know is that if Greece should fail, the Greek population will take this transition in their stride, on the one hand with the kind of drama that would naturally emerge from such a move, but also with a lightness of spirit that is totally unknown amongst the other European people. The Greeks are used to living within huge dominions because they were first part of the Byzantine empire and then the Ottoman Empire so the concept of Statedom that is being imposed on them is "somewhat restrictive" for the average Greek citizen, even if they were to exit the Euro zone.

when will we see similar burgeonings in ireland and portugal i wonder?

The power of knowledge is in mortal combat with the knowledge of power. It really is that simple... That's the Edenic apple we are all munching on.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Sep 25th, 2012 at 11:08:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
if it got seats, it might be better to stay small and on message, and wait for the other players to a. leel over and die, or b. continue their decomposition on national tv, twiddling idiot blatherings while rome burns.

the alliance game is over methinks.

if, instead of demonising grillo and his crew, the parties would take his ideas and promote them as their own.... but quando mai? that would be the end of their cozy little klepto-world.

The power of knowledge is in mortal combat with the knowledge of power. It really is that simple... That's the Edenic apple we are all munching on.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 07:12:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
EU Observer: Socialists open political season ahead of 2014 EU elections (21.09.12)
The EU's political season ahead of the 2014 elections will kick off this week with a Socialist Party congress, setting the ground for a centre-left candidate to run for the head of the European Commission.

Belgium's PM Elio di Rupo is the key speaker at the Socialist congress (Photo: fotospresidencia5)
The congress, which takes place every two and half years, is expected to change the inner rulings of the party allowing them to table a proposal when the current top commissioner, Jose Manuel Barroso, ends his second mandate, in 2014.

Barroso himself earlier this month said all political parties should choose candidates for the post. The Portuguese politician has already served two mandates but could, in theory, stand for another term.

Barroso has already indicated he wants Poland's Donald Tusk to be the next Commission President, as he hopes to become President of Portugal.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 04:15:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Europe Ecologie-les Verts appelle à voter contre la ratification du traité européen Europe Ecologie-Les Verts call to vote against the ratification of the European pact
Le conseil fédéral d'Europe Ecologie-les Verts (EELV) appelle ses élus à voter contre la ratification du traité budgétaire européen en octobre au Parlement, en dépit des appels du Parti socialiste qui en a fait un test de cohésion de la majorité au pouvoir. (...)The Federal Council of Europe Ecologie-Les Verts (EELV) is calling on its elected representatives to vote against the ratification of the EU budgetary pact before Parliament in October, despite calls from the Socialist Party, which is making it a test of the cohesion of the majority in power. (...)
Cette motion n'empêchera pas cependant l'adoption du traité par le Parlement français, la droite ayant de toute façon l'intention de voter ce texte négocié par Nicolas Sarkozy.This motion will not, however, prevent the adoption of the treaty by the French Parliament, the right having in any case the intention of voting for this text negotiated by Nicolas Sarkozy.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 02:55:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is Dany the Red arguing to vote for the pact?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 03:51:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He's no longer "the Red" - hasn't been for yonks...

And yes, he's still in favor; just heard him on TV this morning over breakfast; in short: it's over.

Daniel Cohn-Bendit: "entre Europe Ecologie et moi maintenant, c'est une histoire terminée" - Challenges.fr Daniel Cohn-Bendit: "Europe Ecologie and me, it's over" - Challenges.fr
Au lendemain du vote du conseil fédéral d'Europe Ecologie-Les Verts contre la ratification du traité budgétaire européen, Daniel Cohn-Bendit a déclaré dimanche qu'il suspendait "provisoirement" sa participation au mouvement. Mais "dans mon fort intérieur, entre Europe Ecologie et moi maintenant, c'est une histoire terminée", a-t-il lâché.Following the Europe Ecologie-Les Verts federal council vote against the ratification of the European budgetary treaty Daniel Cohn-Bendit, Sunday morning, declared he suspended "temporarily" his participation in the movement. But "in my mind, between Europe Ecology and me, it's over", he quipped.
"J'ai mis, disons, ma participation à ce mouvement entre parenthèses", a dit sur i>Télé l'eurodéputé écologiste qui défend la ratification du traité."I've put, say, my participation to this movement between brackets" added the member of European Parliament, who supports the fiscal pact, on TV channel i>Télé.


Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 04:14:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It was to be expected. DCB is a German, not a French Green.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 04:40:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Recall: A tale of two greens in Cohn-Bendit: Politically Stateless?.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 05:15:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reuters: Analysis - As Dutch zeal for Europe wanes, election brings risks (August 22, 2012)
"I'm really sick of this government giving away our taxes to those corrupt Greeks," said the owner of a pet shop in Amsterdam who asked not to be identified by name because he does not declare all his income to the authorities.

"That's why I only take cash here. I don't want all my money going to pay for that, especially when they are cutting back on pensions and healthcare."

(h/t FT Alphaville)

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 08:16:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Photo of pet shop owner:

Would you buy a second-hand parrot from this man?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 08:50:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
 ECONOMY & FINANCE 


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:22:33 PM EST
UK government borrowing rises to record August high | Business | guardian.co.uk

George Osborne's debt reduction plans took another blow last month as government borrowing hit its highest on record for any August.

Public sector net borrowing excluding financial sector interventions - the government's preferred measure - widened to £14.41bn from £14.37bn in August 2011 - and is now the largest it has been since records began in 1993.

That takes the deficit for the tax year to date to £31bn. But, stripping out the transfer of Royal Mail pension assets, the deficit has actually widened 22% to £59bn so far this year.

George Buckley at Deutsche Bank said Friday's public finance data suggested the government will miss its targets by about £10bn or £20bn.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:41:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Business Insider: A Member Of The Federal Reserve Has Delivered A Monster Slam On The Direction Of Fed Policy
James Bullard, head of the Saint Louis Federal Reserve, is known for his hawkish stance on Federal Reserve policy, and he's been an outspoken critic of additional monetary easing.

...

But Bullard says it's a futile attempt because unemployment simply can't return to pre-crisis levels - a reflection of the argument that the economy is facing a "new normal" going forward.

I agree o one thing: monetary policy alone cannot stimulate employment. Targeted fiscal action is needed. But I strongly disagree on the high-unemployment 'new normal'. That's just a failure of imagination.

See More Reasons for Despair: Angels on Pinheads (March 5th, 2009)

Conservative economists have been arguing about the "new normal" for nearly 4 years.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 03:46:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Permanently lowered wages and worker expectations? What's not to like?

It's not so much a failure of imagination as democracy.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 05:07:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
since tony benn, has there been a lefty pol who has done more than token handwaving in the direction of real social democracy in the UK?

the knowledge economy has strengthened the right, for all its promise.

with the demise of industry in its favour, and the corollary weakening of the unions, the odds are long even a harold wilson could emerge from the pit.

cleggers, ed millipede, and dave from marketing is britain's sorry lot, all on the city's lifeboat among the wreckage of social democracy, fought and bled for from keir hardie's day.

The power of knowledge is in mortal combat with the knowledge of power. It really is that simple... That's the Edenic apple we are all munching on.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 04:17:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Simon Johnson, Peter Boone: The Doomsday Cycle Turns: Who's Next? « naked capitalism
With an ageing population and slower growth, the broad outlines of responsible policy are straightforward. Japan should become a big investor in countries with younger populations, providing the capital investment needed to generate growth. Those countries can then return the savings to the Japanese as they retire. Singapore's government does just that via one of the world's largest investment funds.

The government has not been willing to raise taxes in a timely manner to match its spending.



Von überall könnte das Volk, Urbrut alles Undemokratischen, Zelle des Terrors, über die gewählten Hüter von Wachstum und Wohlstand® kommen. - flatter
by generic on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 07:37:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
 WORLD 


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:23:07 PM EST
BBC News - Pakistan film protests: 15 die in Karachi and Peshawar

Fifteen people have died as violent protests erupted on the streets of Pakistan's main cities in anger at an anti-Islam film made in the US.

Ten people were killed in the port city of Karachi and a further five died in the north-western city of Peshawar, hospital officials said.

Protesters also breached the diplomatic enclave in the capital, Islamabad, near the US embassy.

There has been widespread unrest over the amateur film, Innocence of Muslims.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Death toll rises in Pakistan video protests - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English

Reports say more than 17 people have died as demonstrations against an anti-Islam video erupted across Pakistan, a day after protesters tried to storm the US embassy in the capital, Islamabad.

Tens of thousands of Pakistanis took to the streets across the country after the government called an impromptu public holiday to let people protest under the banner of "Love the Prophet Day".

In Karachi, armed protesters among a group of 15,000 fired on police, killing two officers, as at least 10 protesters died in the violence. The crowd also burned six cinemas, two banks, a KFC and five police vehicles.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:43:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Defiant Syrian president accuses Gulf states of funding rebels | World news | guardian.co.uk

The Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, has said he is adamant his regime will not fall and lashed out at Gulf countries which he accused of using their enormous oil wealth to try to drive him from power.

Assad's comments were published on Friday as an opposition group, the National Co-ordination Body for Democratic Change in Syria, accused the regime of being behind the disappearance of two of its leaders.

Abdul-Aziz al-Kheir and Ayas Ayyash were expected to take part in a conference this Sunday in Damascus by 20 Syrian groups that are calling for Assad to step down. But they disappeared on Thursday along with a friend who had picked them up at Damascus international airport, the group said



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"This is my damn country ... Daddy gave it to me ... so THERE!"

I have a t-shirt with that on it. And whatever you do, DON'T BLINK!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 07:09:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Protesters seek to disband Benghazi militias - Africa - Al Jazeera English

The main square in Libya's second city, Benghazi, is hosting rival demonstrations by citizens opposed to the control of militias, and by hardline Salafi protesters, with tensions still running high after an attack on the US consulate last week.

Around 30,000 pro-peace Libyans marched through the eastern port on Friday in an unprecedented effort to demand the disbanding of powerful armed gangs, in the wake of the assault that killed the ambassador and three other Americans.

The giant crowd poured into Al-Kish Square square in front of the main camp of Ansar Sharia in the city, unfurling a long Libyan flag and chanting, "With our lives and souls, we redeem you, Benghazi".



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:43:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The attempted Salafist putsch to confiscate the Arab spring is coming unstuck.

Not coincidentally, in Tunisia, the islamist-democrat Prime Minister is talking tough about reclaiming the streets from the Salafist riff-raff.

The trumped-up outrage over some stupid video (and the non-existent outrage over the French cartoons about the video) look like being a watershed - but not of the sort the salafist scum were hoping for.

Pakistan is of course a special (basket) case - thank you Mr Obama.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 09:50:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There tends to be several more layers to Arab politics than are reported in the English-language press.

I wouldn't want to bet money on the ultimate outcome just yet.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 10:02:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The salafis have got an awful lot of saudi money behind them. If the first push using guns doesn't work, then they'll do what they've done elsewhere and simply capture the education system and put in for the long haul

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 10:14:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That requires the crazy Saudi princes to have money to sustain the long haul.

I wouldn't want to bet my political movement on that.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 10:26:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I see it more in local terms.

First, an attack on the US for killing an AQ leader:

Qaeda says Benghazi attack 'revenge' for leader's death | Bangkok Post: news

Al-Qaeda said the deadly attack on the US consulate in Benghazi, Libya was in revenge for the killing of the network's number two Sheikh Abu Yahya al-Libi

Then, the other day attacks military on Ansar Al-Sharia by rival militias.

And now, demonstrations against militias:

Protesters seek to disband Libya militias - Africa - Al Jazeera English

Around 30,000 Libyans marched through the eastern port city on Friday in an unprecedented effort to demand the disbanding of powerful armed militias, in the wake of the assault that killed the US ambassador and three other Americans.

Protesters seek to disband Libya militias - Africa - Al Jazeera English

"They have also called for the disbanding of the militias, chanting: 'What are you waiting for?'. They're asking the government how long it will take before they do that."

They gathered to pressure the national congress to pass legislation criminalising militias and codifying the law on bearing arms, organisers said.

They were also demanding the withdrawal of all armed groups from state buildings and institutions and full support for measures to revitalise the police and army.

I don't think the center can hold, and what we are seeing here are the early days in a process which will turn Libya into something similar to Somalia.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 12:42:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've said countless times economic debilitation and rising food prices increases the likelihood of political and social unrest.  The 'Top Level' excuse for riots, etc., will vary by culture and circumstances.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 01:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Deaths in Israel-Egypt border shootout - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

Israeli troops shot the three heavily armed men when they crossed the Egyptian border and ambushed the soldiers, averting "a very big terror attack", an Israeli military spokeswoman said on Friday.

The incident took place on the Israeli side of the frontier at a place called Har Harif, which is almost half way down Israel's 240km border with the Egyptian Sinai Peninsula.

"Three armed terrorist entered from the Sinai into Israel," army spokeswoman Lieutenant Colonel Avital Leibovich told reporters.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:44:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
South Africa issues arrest warrant for Malema - Africa - Al Jazeera English

South African authorities have issued an arrest warrant for ANC renegade Julius Malema, President Jacob Zuma's most vocal critic and a key backer of a wave of recent wildcat strikes, according to media reports.

"We have received confirmation from the authorities that there is an arrest warrant issued for Mr Malema," Nicqui Galaktiou of Brian Kahn Attorneys told local newspaper, City Press, on Friday.

"We are busy arranging Mr Malema's appearance next week," Galaktiou said. "We don't have a confirmed date yet. We have not seen the warrant of arrest. We don't know what the charges are. He won't be jailed."



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:47:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
S. Korean Navy fires warning shots at DPRK fishing boats - Xinhua | English.news.cn

South Korea's Navy on Friday fired warning shots at fishing boats from the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) for violating a tense western maritime border, officials here said.

The six fishing boats, which crossed the border in succession starting from 11:44 a.m. local time, retreated north of the border after the Navy fired two warning shots at 3 p.m., said South Korea 's Joint Chiefs of Staff.

In recent weeks, an increasing number of DPRK fishing boats have crossed the western border called the Northern Limit Line ( NLL), a scene of deadly naval clashes between the estranged neighbors.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:50:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Malfunctions delay delivery of Russian aircraft carrier to India - Xinhua | English.news.cn

Russia will delay delivery of a renovated nuclear aircraft carrier to India for five months because of construction problems, the ship's builder said Friday.

"A number of units have broken down, including those made in NATO countries," Andrei Dyachkov, head of the state-owned United Shipbuilding Corp. (USC), said during a meeting with Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin.

Dyachkov cited problematic units in the aircraft carrier, including the heat insulation of diesel-powered boilers, three freezing devices and nitrogenous generators.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:51:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Iran marks Defense Week by staging military parade - Xinhua | English.news.cn

The Iranian armed forces staged military parades throughout the country on Friday to mark the start of the Week of Defense, commemorating Iranian sacrifices during the eight-year Iraq-Iran war in the 1980s.

The Iranian armed forces remembered the 1980-1988 war between Iraq and Iran by holding a parade in which Iran's most advanced military power and abilities are showcased.

Iran's army, the Islamic Revolution Guard Corps (IRGC) and the volunteer militia Basij forces participated in the parade.

Iran also displayed advanced missiles, including ballistic missiles of the Shahab-3 and Sejil, which are reported to have a range of 1,300 km-2,000 km.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:51:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Al Arabiya: Libyan demonstrators wreck militia compound in Benghazi (21 September 2012)
Hundreds of Libyan protesters forced members of the main Salafist militia out of their base in the second city of Benghazi Friday, setting fire to and wrecking the military compound.

...

"No to armed formations" and "Yes to the Libya army" read banners raised by protesters gathered at the city's Tibesti Hotel before marching to Al-Kish Square, close to the barracks of several militia brigades.

...

Banners also paid tribute to U.S. ambassador Chris Stevens, who was killed along with three Americans on September 11 in what the White House now calls a terrorist attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 12:19:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
 LIVING OFF THE PLANET 
 Environment, Energy, Agriculture, Food 


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:23:32 PM EST
Pesticide threat to bees to be investigated by parliament | Damian Carrington | Environment | guardian.co.uk

On Wednesday, I accused the government of failing to act on the significant and growing evidence that neonicitinoid pesticides cause significant harm to bees. For my trouble, I was "mythbusted" by the department for environment, food and rural affairs (Defra).

But I am far from alone in my concerns and I can now reveal that a full parliamentary enquiry is going ahead into the matter. Joan Walley MP, who chairs the House of Commons environmental audit committee, a powerful cross-party group that acts as parliament's green watchdog, sent this letter to the Guardian on Friday.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:53:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You can always count on Defra.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 04:52:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
to do the right thing by Monsanto

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 10:38:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See here.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 03:59:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sharp drop in number of UK homes installing solar panels | Environment | guardian.co.uk

The number of UK homes installing solar panels has fallen dramatically since the start of August, following a cut in subsidy rates by the government.

Figures published on Friday show a huge rush by householders aiming to install panels before a 1 August government deadline, followed by a huge drop. There was nearly three-quarters less capacity installed in the past six weeks than the equivalent weeks in 2011 for the feed-in tariff scheme, which pays householders for generating green energy.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:54:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Windfarms could provide windfall for local communities | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Communities with windfarms in their area could get money off their electricity bills or grants for facilities such as playgrounds, the government has suggested.

The Department of Energy and Climate Change has launched a consultation into how communities could benefit from having windfarms sited near them, for example by receiving discounts on bills or investment in local infrastructure. It will also look at how local businesses could become involved in the supply chain and how developers can best consult local people.

The energy secretary, Edward Davey, said that too often host communities had seen the "windfarm but not the windfall" and he wanted to ensure people benefited from them.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:54:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Stenographers, anyone? GMO rat study co-sponsor engineered embargo to prevent scrutiny « Embargo Watch

A study of the effect of genetically modified corn on rats that you may have read about earlier this week doesn't seem to have said much about whether GMOs are safe. But it sure said a lot about how the scientists who did the work used a crafty embargo to control their message.

In an excellent post over at the New York Times' Dot Earth blog, Andy Revkin says the study, co-sponsored by the Sustainable Food Trust, is yet another example of the "single study syndrome:"

the habit of the more aggressive camps of advocates surrounding hot issues (e.g., climate, chemical exposure, fracking) to latch onto and push studies supporting an agenda, no matter how tenuous -- or dubious -- the research might be.

Revkin's post, and the stories he links to, do an excellent deconstruction of the small rat study, so I'll leave that to them.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 03:08:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you for this, I'm still absorbing it, a lot there to chew on, but it is a great summary, and the fact sheet from Colorado State is devastating to the California ballot issue.
by greatferm (greatferm-at-email.com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 03:40:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
greatferm:
the fact sheet from Colorado State is devastating to the California ballot issue.

What you mean is, in the US, you're fucked because GM foods are so widely produced and integrated into agro-food production that it is appallingly complicated to label final products.

A situation a good deal of Europe has been able to a large extent to avoid up to now, and which it would be wise for us to hold on to.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 04:49:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hold on to our situation, not yours, obviously... :)
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 04:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Simple solution: Don't buy the crap.

With a modicum of effort a family can eat healthy and keep the money spent on food the same.  

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 01:50:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So the aim of this site is just to bitch about embargoes placed on information to journalists. Cool.
It may be there's something to complain about -- just as it may be that mass communication over twenty years has been biased in favour of American biotech on this issue, and that this is something to complain about too.

It's also cool, apparently, while attacking supposed communications strategies, not to say a word about how biotech industry scientists keep their data locked up under the seal of "industrial secret", in other words, only communicate to the media their version of the results, and do not allow other scientists or the regulatory agencies access to their data.

Apparently it's also cool at the same time as complaining about communications issues to pass throwaway judgement on the content itself ("doesn't seem to have said much about whether GMOs are safe" : huh?).

And it's cool to find bias because advocacy groups have been involved in sponsorship of the study (while there doesn't seem to be a problem with the biotech industry backing most of the other studies).

And it's also cool to take issue with a supposed "single-study syndrome", which implies the existence of an opposing corpus of science that has carried out exhaustive tests and reached definitive conclusions, and ignores the fact that the industry pays for and organizes the vast majority of studies, while it is extremely difficult and costly to organize industry-independent studies that are therefore necessarily "single" when they come out -- and are immediately stigmatized as such by industry shills.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 04:38:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The kid still got a point, though:

Breaking with a long tradition in scientific journalism, the authors allowed a selected group of reporters to have access to the paper, provided they signed confidentiality agreements that prevented them from consulting other experts about the research before publication.

That is outright condemnable, as this is all about playing the media and controlling the message. It doesn't speak well of the science authors. Combine it with the reports that there will be a book publication in the wake of this article, and it stinks even worse.

But that's not the main point. This is about the media - because it takes two to tango.

I'm even more inflamed about the press agencies that actually agreed to these terms. That authors attempt playing the media is nothing new - even while their employed tactics should still be rejected.

The press agencies in particular should know better. Ultimately, they are the gatekeepers. It's one thing to get handed a muzzle, it's something else to voluntarily strap it on yourself. All of them, they should've put their foot down and not have agreed to these despicable terms, just for the lure of one headline. It would be good to find out if they knew from each other that their competitors had signed up for it (thereby creating peer pressure to fold as well).

Now I would even understand sympathies for a development like this as it concerns a topic so controversial and contested and with stupendous stakes involved. But on any topic not as contested, I hope anyone here will see that the practice as detailed is vile.

Of course the very fact that this topic is so deeply controversial, breeds and stimulates the use of dirty tactics like this one. And it should be condemned and rejected the more so - because nothing good will come of this. It instantly undermines the reliability of the scientists involved and it gnaws at the independence of the first, haphazard inspection of the press. While no one is scot-free in this (science authors wanting an impact, press agencies wanting to be highly read), agreeing to these limitations is a path leading to disaster. It is not the way to go.

by Nomad on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 04:37:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As I said, "it may be that there's something to complain about". Yes, the way communications were handled on this study didn't please me, more especially the blatant overuse of photos of rats with (unexplained: malignant or benign?) tumours.

But tell me why we should get virtuously huffy and even "inflamed" about "dirty tactics" from advocacy movements who are attempting to fight corporate communicational power on an uneven playing-field? The supposition that the "playing-field" is even is roughly equivalent to the notion that Fox News is "fair and balanced". Yet this is more and more a communicational tactic (dirty?) on the part of big industries (biotech, agro-industry, energy incumbents) with a lot to lose: to depict the opponent movements as big, rich, and powerful (and, if possible, self-seeking and corrupt). Which they are not. In this case, it was not easy for the team to pull together €3 mn to finance the study. Meanwhile, the industry have hundreds of studies under their belt. And they do the communications, plenty. "The science" (watch out when they use that Orwellian expression, the science, it means "corporate science") "has shown no ill effects of GMOs etc". Can we see the data? No, these studies are mostly "industrial secret" and no one gets to examine the data. Was any attempt made to estimate toxological outcomes over a lifetime? Why, no, rats tested for three months is the maximum. But "scientific consensus is that there is no evidence of ill effects".

When scientists with the courage and tenacity to ask the right questions manage to carry out a study, it is branded "single study" as against the "mass of evidence". It is of course "flawed". The people involved will be labelled crackpots or bad scientists and probably undergo character assassination. This has happened in other cases. And the "stenographers" (to take a line from the Embargo Watchers) do their jobs as righteous little stenographers, and relay the smoke screens, the confusion tactics, the ad hominems.

So this time a movement sponsoring the study decided to play hardball, because there's a communications war on, and the corporates have always been perfectly clear in their own minds that that is the case. I agree, the embargo and conditions imposed on "stenographers" are unethical, and I would not wish to see them applied, ever. But journalists should straighten their spines and stop being "stenographers". It is because they live day in, day out, with a demeaning and futile practice of their own profession, that such things are possible.

As for focalising on this aspect of Seralini's study, I'm not going to bite. The point is that this study has shown that insufficient lifetime experiments have been done on the toxicology of GMO ingestion, and that money should go to further and better experiments of this kind, carried out by scientists independent of either the industry or the complicit regulatory agencies.

The breach of journalistic ethics is a trifle in comparison with that.

 

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 08:16:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But tell me why we should get virtuously huffy and even "inflamed" about "dirty tactics" from advocacy movements who are attempting to fight corporate communicational power on an uneven playing-field?

Is this science or an advocacy movement?

Is there a difference, should there be?

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 08:18:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Has science a chance against the advocacy of a well-connected industry with practically unlimited funds without taking to advocacy too?
by Katrin on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 08:51:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
is yes. Plenty of historic examples, not even too far away.

Today's worry, however, is the incremental industrial capture of science.

by Nomad on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 09:55:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My worry is that science has become yet another weapon in the rhetorical arsenal.

My fear is that it may never have been anything else.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 03:43:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Science has never not been another weapon in the rhetorical arsenal.

But that is not to say that it has never been anything but another weapon in the rhetorical arsenal.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 04:00:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Get me out of this cheap B movie!

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 04:09:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

They will come.


Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 01:54:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Le chercheur, l'agrochimiste et les abeilles The researcher, the agrochemist and the bees
L'étude avait fait grand bruit. Conduite par Mickaël Henry (Institut national de la recherche agronomique, INRA) et publiée en avril dans Science, elle montrait qu'une bonne part des abeilles butineuses ne retrouvaient pas le chemin de leur ruche après avoir été exposées à de faibles doses de Cruiser - le pesticide récemment interdit sur le colza en France. Revenant sur cette affaire, la revue Science publie, vendredi 21 septembre, un "commentaire technique" de chercheurs britanniques contestant les conclusions de M. Henry et ses coauteurs. Banale dispute académique ou cas emblématique de l'influence discrète de l'industrie sur la science ? L'expérience des chercheurs français n'est pas contestée : sous l'effet de faibles doses de thiamétoxam (la molécule active du Cruiser), une part importante des butineuses ne reviennent pas à la ruche. M. Henry et ses coauteurs l'avaient montré grâce à un marquage des insectes par puce électronique à radiofréquence (RFID).The study made a big noise. Led by Mickaël Henry (National Institute of Agricultural Research, INRA) and published in April Science , it showed that a good share of forager honeybees did not find the way back to their hive after having been exposed to low doses of Cruiser -- the pesticide recently banned on rapeseed in France. Returning to this case, Science , publishes Friday, Sept. 21, a "technical comment" from British researchers challenging the findings of Mr Henry and his coauthors. Banal academic dispute or emblematic case of the discreet influence of the industry on science? The French researchers' study is not in dispute: under the effect of low doses of thiametoxam (the active molecule of Cruiser), a large proportion of bees do not return to the hive. Henry and his co-authors had shown this by marking the insects with an electronic chip (RFID).
"Ce qui est contesté, c'est le modèle mathématique que nous avons utilisé pour évaluer l'effet de cette désorientation des butineuses sur la ruche entière", dit Mickaël Henry. Selon ce modèle, une colonie non exposée à l'insecticide croît de 11 % par mois en période de floraison du colza. Trop peu pour compenser les effets du Cruiser. Mais pour leurs contradicteurs, ce taux est d'environ 40 % : suffisamment pour que les abeilles perdues en raison de leur exposition au pesticide soient remplacées par la croissance naturelle du groupe. "What is disputed is the mathematical model that we used to evaluate the effect of the disorientation of the foragers on the entire hive," says Mickaël Henry. In this model, a colony not exposed to the insecticide increases by 11% per month during rapeseed flowering. Too little to compensate for the effects of Cruiser. But according to their opponents, this rate is about 40%: sufficient for the bees lost due to their exposure to the pesticide to be replaced by the natural growth of the group.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 04:02:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The French movement CRIIGEN is the main organizer of the study and of the communications effort (which includes a book and a documentary). It's not a movement I'd necessarily support without reserve, but it has the merit of standing up for independent investigation of the toxicological effects of GMOs.

As for the science, either it's science or it isn't. At least the full study paper is publicly available, and the authors say their data will be made public.

As for the difference between science and advocacy or corporate money-making, no, science is not the virgin handmaid of progress, it's a huge money-sucking business (mostly corporate-controlled) and a medium in its own right. Which doesn't mean that, within the sphere of scientific investigation, scientific method is invalid. It does mean that scientific method is insufficient of itself. The questions that are asked are at least if not more important, and it is in that area that financial control gets to muddy the waters. So, that it is an advocacy group that obstinately asks the right questions doesn't bother me -- as long as the right questions get asked.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 08:53:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can there be? Resource allocation is always political.

Von überall könnte das Volk, Urbrut alles Undemokratischen, Zelle des Terrors, über die gewählten Hüter von Wachstum und Wohlstand® kommen. - flatter
by generic on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 08:54:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
According to someone I know at the EP, as far as the EP is concerned there is no difference between lobbyists - corporate, movement or scientist. Well, there is a difference in that scientists are bad at lobbying and has a tendency to be limited in what they claim. And the corporate lobby has most money for fancy parties. But other then that, no difference.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 10:03:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
FT.com: Oh for a eurocrat who understands science (Andre Geim, January 5, 2012)
I then experienced a distinct sense of déjà vu at the European Commission's first Innovation Convention in December. It was clear that everyone there loves science. José Manuel Barroso said both publicly and privately that he trusts science will in the end solve all our problems, from the current economic crisis to climate change. Science was unanimously referred to as the only reliable medicine for sorting out all our traumas and providing long-term growth. Such deep faith in science was remarkable, and my heart melted. But there was a catch. It was equally clear that policymakers perceive science as something abstract and remote, à la Santa.

...

How far I was off the mark can be judged from the following anecdote. At a dinner table, European officials and science ministers were curious about my line of work. In 2010 I shared the Nobel prize for physics for my work on graphene, an exciting new material with a wide range of potential applications. But graphene was no good as a reference.

So, I explained that I was at the start of a long economic chain leading to more powerful computers and gadgets, which require smaller and faster transistors. To my surprise, the listeners were well informed. I should not worry - one interjected - Moore's law, which says that the number of transistors on a microchip doubles every two years, would take care of everything. I felt snubbed. I had no strength to explain that Moore's law is not a law of nature but an observation.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 11:47:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Which is to say their knowledge of Engineering equals their knowledge of Science.

Which is to say, "Not Much."


Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 01:58:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
More worryingly, their knowledge of economics and geopolitics appears equally shallow.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 02:10:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We have yet to plumb the depths of ignorance of our political masters.

Gives me warm fuzzies.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 02:15:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Writing 'it may be that there's something to complain about' is nothing but ambiguity - which is why I called out. Either this practice of wrecking up embargoes is right, then justify it. Or it ain't right, then condemn it. At least be straight about it.

Simply from the sheer size of your reply, you are already biting, and a lot. I get the impression you are more rankled by the fact I condemn the practice by the group of scientist even when I put the bigger part of my ire on the role of the press agencies. As I wrote upthread, you have my understanding for nurturing a range of sympathies.

It doesn't excuse either side - and I explained why I get 'huffy'.

The funny part is - I didn't start out to rank minor or major offenses. The whole damn field is one convoluted mess, and wrecking up embargo rules and playing the media is really just small part of it. But it would not be smart to think it is not trivial and it deserved underlining. Which is the only thing I did, I believe.

by Nomad on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 10:28:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As far as I'm concerned, there is a war on. I'm may dislike some methods, but I'm not going to condemn people who step outside the ethical guidelines to fight much more potent foes who are permanently outside ethical guidelines concerning human health.

Underline it if you like, but how about getting a sense of priorities?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 12:03:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This feels related...
The drugs don't work: a modern medical scandal | Ben Goldacre | Business | The Guardian

The patient and I discussed the evidence briefly, and agreed it was the right treatment to try next. I signed a prescription.

But we had both been misled. In October 2010, a group of researchers was finally able to bring together all the data that had ever been collected on reboxetine, both from trials that were published and from those that had never appeared in academic papers. When all this trial data was put together, it produced a shocking picture. Seven trials had been conducted comparing reboxetine against a placebo. Only one, conducted in 254 patients, had a neat, positive result, and that one was published in an academic journal, for doctors and researchers to read. But six more trials were conducted, in almost 10 times as many patients. All of them showed that reboxetine was no better than a dummy sugar pill. None of these trials was published. I had no idea they existed.

It got worse. The trials comparing reboxetine against other drugs showed exactly the same picture: three small studies, 507 patients in total, showed that reboxetine was just as good as any other drug. They were all published. But 1,657 patients' worth of data was left unpublished, and this unpublished data showed that patients on reboxetine did worse than those on other drugs. If all this wasn't bad enough, there was also the side-effects data. The drug looked fine in the trials that appeared in the academic literature; but when we saw the unpublished studies, it turned out that patients were more likely to have side-effects, more likely to drop out of taking the drug and more likely to withdraw from the trial because of side-effects, if they were taking reboxetine rather than one of its competitors.

I did everything a doctor is supposed to do. I read all the papers, I critically appraised them, I understood them, I discussed them with the patient and we made a decision together, based on the evidence. In the published data, reboxetine was a safe and effective drug. In reality, it was no better than a sugar pill and, worse, it does more harm than good. As a doctor, I did something that, on the balance of all the evidence, harmed my patient, simply because unflattering data was left unpublished.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 12:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And this is why it's important to keep records of all clinical trial on human subjects, published or not.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 02:28:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ALL clinical trial data should be available, on demand, to researchers.

Otherwise you're not doing science, you're doing marketing.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 02:00:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The line between clinical and pre-clinical trials can be kinda fuzzy.

But yes, in principle you should keep records of all lab activities, and make them available on request (except for stuff that is in the publication pipeline). In practice, minutely documenting every trial run and calibration is an onerous burden to place on experimental scientists, and not one that will ultimately add any great measure of clarity.

"Clinical trial" is nice, simple, well-defined criterion, and because you need ethics board approval it is amenable to external enforcement.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 02:05:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I note I wrote "clinical trials."

Pre-clinical trials includes exploratory bio-chemical experiments a large number of which are based on little more than, "Gee.  I wonder what happens if I do this?"  

Often followed by, "oops."

(lol)

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 02:20:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Was discussing the topic I broached above - the gradual capture of science and university scientists by industry - with a few people recently. We came up with a minimum of four major areas: Big Ag, Fossil, Pharma and Finance. All areas share an identical flaw: institutional failure.

But fathoming how deep the rabbitholes go, quickly ends in speculation, bordering paranoia.

by Nomad on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 06:57:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because Big Tobacco lost, it wasn't included in your list.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 07:07:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't pretend to think that Big Tobacco isn't big. Particularly in developing countries, their lobbying power and tactics remains formidable. But on the science front and in western nations, they are on the way out, I'd estimate.

On that account, one could also add Big Mining to the list.

by Nomad on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 07:19:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Think tanks, big media...

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 07:43:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Big Tobacco has moved on, but remains profoudly corrupt and corrupting.

For example, a big tobacco comany has offered a big budget to Interpol, to help fight against counterfeiting (of cigarettes, perhaps?). Meanwhile, their factories churn out cigarettes to order for the big smuggling operators who subvert national tax gathering.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 07:52:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Big Tobacco is, to some extent, the paradigm.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 07:27:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I take no comfort from the defeat of Big Tobacco on the scientific front. Millions of cancer deaths were easily and directly attributable to tobacco. GMOs cover their tracks much better.

Perhaps in twenty years, epidemiological studies will reveal millions of addidional cancer deaths in places (such as the US) where people routinely eat GMOS, as against other places (such as Europe) where they don't.

That will be cold comfort indeed.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 08:02:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The US has ~300 mil. inhabitants, who live for ~75 yrs, meaning ~4 mil. deaths pro annum. Of those, ~1/3 are cancer. "Millions" of excess cancer deaths over 20 yrs would imply a risk factor > 1.1.

That will not take 20+ yrs to prove, let alone discover.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 10:09:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
i don't see why not, if they continue to try really hard not to look.

Remember, the doctrine, which seems to have force of law, is that there is literally nothing to look for, because a GMO is not substantially different from its unmanipulated source organism.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 03:19:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because the CDC, whatever their faults might be, maintain excellent incidence statistics. And since the increase won't be uniform, a 10 % overall incidence increase will translate to a much higher increase in specific types of cancers. An increase of that magnitude might be denied, but it won't overlooked.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 03:55:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed, but that doesn't mean the cause will be immediately efficiently identified.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 04:01:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If it is testicular cancer, it will be the feminazis fault.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 05:04:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Independent and impartial funding of scientific research has been so marginalised that a study  as fundamentally important as the GM maize one only came about through the financal participation of public-interest advocacy groups.

This is a shameful state of affairs.

National research institutions in Europe are oriented towards maximising economic output, the shorter term the better, and forced into the arms of industry.

The need for a longer view leads me to think that the European parliament should be responsible for apportioning a large scientific research budget, after annual debate and vote.

(But that's my answer to just about everything.)

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 07:46:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not asking you to condemn people, I'm asking you to not be ambiguous.

Fog of war and all.

by Nomad on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 01:16:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Revelation 3:
15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!
16 So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 03:49:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So we are being threatened with not being devoured by a rampaging deity if we don't stop being indecisive. Probably doesn't sound all that bad, I think. Maybe.

Von überall könnte das Volk, Urbrut alles Undemokratischen, Zelle des Terrors, über die gewählten Hüter von Wachstum und Wohlstand® kommen. - flatter
by generic on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 05:07:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At times I'm pretty envious of people who've made their mind up and are able to give their live direction based on it. I'd love to have that. And of course in a few matters I've my mind made up. Then the art becomes to live by them, which is hard enough all by itself.

But for many, if not most, areas, scientific or in real life, I've learned the hard way. By falling off self-erected pedestals and finding out that what is carved in rock is actually written in sand, to be washed aside by a next wave. It is quietly humbling, and even admitting a change of mind or heart is in this rat-racing world far too often considered a weakness, rather than a strength.

It is probably why I've taken the greatest comfort in Socrates:

Great Philosophers: Socrates II

"I do not suppose that either of us knows anything really beautiful and good, I am better off than he is - for he knows nothing, and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know."
by Nomad on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 07:15:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I just came away from a philosophy programme on Arte TV on Socrates, where that was quoted.

I often refrain from debates on ET in accordance with that last sentence.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 07:32:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure i know what to respond to this comment, or how.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 02:43:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ditherer.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 03:12:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're probably like me in thinking that dealing with your own mistakes is the best way to learn new behaviours. Or I may be mistaken.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 03:37:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes.

Or not.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 05:28:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I concede I'm in a minority but in my epistemological world loss of the need of Certainty in Decision Making means you've grown up intellectually.  It also means those areas where Certainty HAS been achieved - at great expensive of money, time, talent, and effort - are precious, e.g., Theory of Evolution, and need to be stoutly defended.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 02:05:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nomad:
I get the impression you are more rankled by the fact I condemn

In fact, what rankles is not what you condemn, but to have to read the predictable contrary PR talking points that are already in full spate.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 12:08:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Would you really expect anything else? The climate wars ain't much different. Although I think the Big Ag wars are even deeper entrenched.

And I hope that you mean that you're reading the PR elsewhere, and not in my commentary?

by Nomad on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 01:25:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I did say "predictable".

I mean what I read in the article linked to above, and its linked articles. Plus what's in the French press and on TV.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 02:26:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's not Science, it's marketing.


Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 01:51:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 05:54:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Zimbabwe city residents synchronize toilet flush

City authorities in Zimbabwe's second largest city are appealing to home owners to flush their toilets at a specified time as a way to unblock sewers after days of severe water rationing.

Bulawayo City Council has asked its more than 1 million residents to flush their toilets simultaneously at 7:30 p.m. Saturday when water supplies are restored. City officials say "synchronized flushing" is needed to clear waste that would have accumulated in sanitary facilities which will have been affected by days of water outages.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 06:47:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
 LIVING ON THE PLANET 
 Society, Culture, History, Information 


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:23:59 PM EST
BBC News - London Metropolitan University: temporary reprieve for students

London Metropolitan University has been given permission to challenge a ban on its recruitment of overseas students.

The High Court also ruled that existing students with full immigration status should be allowed to continue their studies for now.

Last month the UK Border Agency took away the university's right to sponsor students for UK visas.

It said the university was not making proper checks.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:35:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC News - Facebook suspends photo tag tool in Europe

Facebook has suspended the facial-recognition tool that suggests when registered users could be tagged in photographs uploaded to its website.

The move follows a review of Facebook's efforts to implement changes recommended by the Data Protection Commissioner of Ireland last year.

Billy Hawkes, who did not request the tool's total removal, said he was encouraged by the decision to switch it off for users in Europe by 15 October.

It is already unavailable to new users.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:37:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Judge in late abortion case linked to conservative Christian charity | Law | The Guardian

A judge who criticised UK abortion policies while sentencing a woman to eight years in prison for performing her own abortion at a late stage in her pregnancy is one of at least five members of the judiciary with links to a Christian charity which has campaigned for more conservative abortion laws.

There has been surprise at the severity of the sentence Justice Jeremy Cooke imposed on Sarah Catt, who took a drug when she was 39 weeks pregnant to cause an early delivery and pleaded guilty in July to administering a poison with intent to procure a miscarriage. Catt told police that she buried the remains but has refused to disclose the location.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:40:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps she offended his religious feelings.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 05:10:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Grant Shapps posed as web guru at $3,000-a-head Las Vegas conference | Politics | The Guardian

Grant Shapps, the Conservative party chairman, posed as a "multimillion-dollar web marketer" named Michael Green who spoke to reveal the secrets of his trade at a $3,000-a-head internet conference in Las Vegas while he was the Tory party candidate for Welwyn Hatfield.

The pictorial evidence of his double life, revealed online by a fellow conference speaker, will pile pressure on Shapps to explain his links to a network of websites which have been blocked by Google for breaching its rules on copyright infringement and encouraging customers to plagiarise content.

But at the age of 35, Shapps claimed already to have established "the world's largest internet marketing forum". A few years later while a member of the shadow cabinet, he also had time to run phone lines where for $297 an hour Green would give tips to aspiring entrepreneurs.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:41:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Luc Besson unveils 'Cinema City' production studio in Paris - FRANCE - CINEMA - FRANCE 24

French filmmaker Luc Besson cut the ribbon Friday on his "Film City", a vast studio complex created in a disused power station to offer Hollywood-style facilities right on the edge of Paris.

"I had always said I'd love to make our own films here in France," Besson told an opening ceremony under the glass and steel vaults of the 1930s plant, a giant turbine brightly painted by local street artists towering in its centre.

"Whereas Americans say 'Yes We Can', here in France our motto tends to be 'Dream On!'. Pessimism is something of a national sport."



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:56:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Granted people in the English-speaking world often don't realize the quantity and quality of the output, but France has a cinema industry, and what's more "high-grade film services right on the outskirts of Paris" at Boulogne. (No, not the Channel port). Besson has always wanted to be Hollywood-style different. Wanker.

(And France 24 is such rubbish).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 04:00:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC: Facebook party invite sparks riot in Haren, Netherlands
The girl whose 16th birthday was being celebrated had not set her Facebook event to "private".

Riot police broke up crowds of revellers who flocked to the town.

The girl who issued the invitation fled her home in Haren, a town of just under 19,000 near the city of Groningen, on Friday.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 07:06:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
NY Times: A Tiny Mediterranean Nation, Awash in Immigrants With Nowhere to Go
Perhaps nowhere are the consequences of the European Union's one-size-fits-all immigration rules more apparent than here in Malta, a tiny archipelago in the Mediterranean between Libya and Italy, which now has the highest ratio of immigrants per capita of any European Union member. Many of its immigrants are caught in a limbo, unable to find jobs or afford housing -- and unable to move off the island.

...

Their fingerprints go into a databank, as they do for all immigrants that arrive in the European Union. If they manage to get to European mainland, and many do, they are quickly returned here.

Greece, too, is struggling under the rules. Thousands of immigrants keep arriving on its borders. But faced with a crushing financial crisis, it has few resources to deal with them. Its facilities are in such bad shape that last year the European Court of Human rights found that returning an asylum seeker to Greece violated his rights.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 05:41:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In the 90ies I was scetching a sci-fi novel that included Malta not being permitted into the Union. Instead it was armed with subs to sink all refugees crossing the waters, with plausible deniability from the EU. Little did I know that Malta was to let into the Union and the countries on the African shore would receive the duty (and payment for) keeping the refugees out of Europe.

And no matter how dystopic I got I probably could never had imagined EU states attacking the very dictatorships on the borders that they payed to keep the refugees out.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 08:05:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The situation in Morocco is appalling, and the fact that Spain and Morocco have agreed to the policy doesn't prevent rising tensions between the two countries.

I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 08:09:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
 PEOPLE AND KLATSCH 


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:24:30 PM EST
BBC News - Jesus fresco 'destroyer' in Spain demands royalties

The woman who ruined a prized Jesus Christ fresco in Spain is now demanding royalties after her botched restoration became a hit with tourists.

Lawyers for Cecilia Gimenez, who is in her 80s, say any "economic compensation" would go to charities.

She made headlines after her do-it-yourself restoration in a church left the 19th Century fresco of Christ resembling a hairy monkey.

But thousands of people have since visited the church near Zaragoza.

The airline Ryanair is now even offering deals to the north-eastern Spanish city, encouraging tourists to see the fresco in the Sanctuary of Mercy Church in Borja.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:36:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
She's not demanding royalties - she's demanding that the church share some of its windfall loot with good causes.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 05:12:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Uefa urged to threaten Lazio with game behind closed doors over racism | Football | guardian.co.uk

Uefa should threaten to make Lazio play their next Europa League game behind closed doors if their fans are found guilty of making monkey chants, the leading anti-racism campaigner Piara Powar has said.

Tottenham Hotspur's Aaron Lennon, Jermain Defoe and Andros Townsend were the subject of racist chanting during Thursday night's 0-0 draw against the Italian side at White Hart Lane.

Uefa, whose president, Michel Platini, was at the game, is awaiting reports from the match delegate and the referee Ovidiu Alin Hategan before deciding to take action against Lazio



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 02:52:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Commentary on Memoirs of Former German First Lady Bettina Wulff - SPIEGEL ONLINE
Christian Wulff, who resigned as president in February for taking favors from rich friends, was the wrong man for the job. It now turns out that his wife was the wrong first lady, too. She has written a book revealing personal and banal details about her life as the president's wife. It goes too far for such a prestigious position.

Let us turn to page 120 of Bettina Wulff's memoirs, where Germany's former first lady complains about the difficulties of being a president's wife. "It was also great to lie in the hotel room and to know that officers are awake 24 hours in the room opposite, effectively playing babysitters and looking after us. Some people might find that stimulating, but it wasn't for me. Instead, I kept thinking: 'Well, one will have to be damned quiet, doing all the things one does. Maybe the walls aren't that thick after all.'"

OAS_RICH('Middle2'); Savor that nugget of information. In her book, published just seven months after Christian Wulff resigned in disgrace for accepting minor favors from rich acquaintances, Bettina claims she is sick of having her life scrutinized by the media. But then she goes on to expose her life in more detail than any newspaper would have dared, or bothered, to do.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 05:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nip it in the bud... nude swimmers told to wear clothes as aggressive crayfish multiply in Hampstead Heath ponds - London - News - Evening Standard

A vicious breed of crayfish has invaded Hampstead Heath ponds and begun nipping swimmers.

The red swamp crayfish, known for its aggressive behaviour and long claws, is multiplying so fast that 5,000 of them are believed to be in the pools.

Bathers in the men's pool, where many swim naked, have been advised to wear clothes.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Sep 21st, 2012 at 05:56:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Business Insider: PRESENTING: The Ultimate November 6 Presidential Election Nightmare Scenario
By midnight, all the races are called. Romney has picked up North Carolina, Florida, New Hampshire, Iowa, Ohio, and Nevada -- all well within his reach. Obama has scored Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Colorado and Virginia. It's settled.

Neither of the candidates have hit 270. They're tied at 269.

...

Now, House delegations with an outright, non-threatened one-party majority -- the New Yorks, the Alaskas -- would bring the total of Obama 14, Romney 20. But let's say several tossup house races and seats make it so that states with a split majority, like Iowa, Florida, and North Carolina shift to the left. When a dozen specific final races are called for Democrats -- presumably after being caught up in months of litigation and recounts -- the state delegations from a number of crucial swing states are split, with some a hair for the Democrats.

Final tally? 25-25. To select the President, someone has to give. And with congress as entrenched as it is right now, and with the stakes as high as they are, there isn't a President, and there will not be a President.

...

The Senate takes a normal vote, majority rules, without any of the delegation nonsense. But what if there's a tie in the Senate? According to the constitution, the Vice President cannot vote this time. They too may literally be deadlocked, and the Speaker of the House -- assuming someone has been elected to that post, and that the House Majority isn't still at stake -- would be sworn in in that event.



I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 03:43:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
While enlightening to get the rules laid out, I note this:

Election Forecasts - FiveThirtyEight Blog - NYTimes.com

Scenario Analysis

How often the following situations occurred during repeated simulated elections.

  • Electoral College tie (269 electoral votes for each candidate) 0.3%

I don't have the numbers of the likelihood of 25-25 in state delegations and 50-50 split in the Senate, put I would not bet any money at all three conditions happening at the same time.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 04:56:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Place your bets ... plan your future ... for President Willard.

I have a t-shirt with that on it. And whatever you do, DON'T BLINK!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 07:16:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Energy Bulletin: Closing the 'Collapse Gap': the USSR was better prepared for collapse than the US by Dmitry Orlov, December 4, 2006
It is certainly more fun to watch two Capitalist parties go at each other than just having the one Communist party to vote for. The things they fight over in public are generally symbolic little tokens of social policy, chosen for ease of public posturing. The Communist party offered just one bitter pill. The two Capitalist parties offer a choice of two placebos. The latest innovation is the photo finish election, where each party buys 50% of the vote, and the result is pulled out of statistical noise, like a rabbit out of a hat.


I distribute. You re-distribute. He gives your hard-earned money to lazy scroungers. -- JakeS
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 11:52:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The US could collapse at any time ... FINALLY somebody singing my tune.

I have a t-shirt with that on it. And whatever you do, DON'T BLINK!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Sep 22nd, 2012 at 04:28:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There are about 97 things more likely to cause the collapse of America than this sequence of tied outcomes...
by asdf on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 12:29:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Including President Obama being hit by lightening.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere
by ATinNM on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 02:21:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh fer ...

Not Gonna Happen.

Ever since I learnt about confirmation bias I've started seeing it everywhere

by ATinNM on Sun Sep 23rd, 2012 at 02:11:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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