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Friday Open Thread

by afew Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 10:37:11 AM EST

Now it's Friday


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You lucky duckies.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 10:37:54 AM EST
I'm just listening to Brian Eno's Thursday Afternoon on my trusty 20 year old hifi and have realised that some part of that system has gone beyond, with severe distortion in the RH channel.

Drat. I shall attempt to identify the dead kit when I'm more with it.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 11:13:58 AM EST
ceebs found some online questionaire asking how many of the "100 most influential albums of all time" individuals owned. I didn't take it cos I could see just from the frontpage that it seemed to comprise albums that were pivotal for those who liked words and sentiments but actual exciting music a bit less so.

So, in my idiot way I'm gonna throw out a few ideas about what "influential" might be and a few albums which exemplify that and see where we go. It might at least keep footfall up tonight

Influential to me implies that the album is a game changer, not necessarily for the whole of youth but, down the line, people look back and say, it started with that.

Sadly my knowledge of pop starts with the Beatles, so I'm in no position to comment on 50s rock and roll. But certain moments, and singles, are surely pivotal

Elvis "That's all right, mama"

Little Richard "Tutti Frutti"

Chuck Berry "Johnny B Goode"

Eddie Cochrane "Summertime blues"

But they're singles, not albums.

The first Beatles album has to be in, they changed the world, it changed the world.

The first Dylan album. As above.

I'm gonna let other people argue about whether Dylan's "Bringing it all back home" should feature instead of Highway 61 revisited" I just don't know. anyway, Dylan goes electic and folkies all over the world have heart attack

Revolver by the Beatles. I doubt it was the first psychedelic album, but it was the first to be a worldwide smash and spread the message.

Piper at the Gates of Dawn by Pink floyd. not the first, but the most pure distillation of British psychedelia ever recorded. It is the source many return to.

Led Zeppelin II. It was, and always will be, the definitive statement. Much copied, never remotely equaled.

Bowie Space Oddity. Created bowie the artist and his use of makeup and attitude created waves which fetched up Roxy Music as well as many New Wavs artists a decade later

Right, thats the 60s. I'm doing a post for the 70s but have at it

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 12:41:53 PM EST
Faust tapes. A musical collage of great intensity and savage juxtapositions. It sold hundreds of thousands of copies in the UK, and listening to Pagey rip a riff from it on "song remains the same album" showed even the best weren't ashamed.

Bowie The berlin trilogy. Other better writers have tried to  match their majesty and failed. So I'm not gonna try.

Ramones, the Ramones. The first punk record.

Dr Feelgood Down by the Jetty. Influenced both the developing London and NYC puck scenes

Kraftwerk Trans Europe Express. The source for House music. All of it

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 12:45:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Van halen 1.

Invented 80 hair metal. Without this albums, GnR, slayer and a hundred other bands you wished had never existed, wouldn't have existed

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 12:49:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The one that shocks me at not being there is Catch a Fire, the 1973 Bob Marley record, probably one of the most Influential records ever.

And nothing from Lee scratch perry, or King Tubby

so add in King tubby meets Rockers Uptown,

and The Upsetters (Perry's house band) Super Ape.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 01:13:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So you DID have fun when you were a kid?

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 01:26:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well hitting my teenage years in 76, I did get left with a taste for punk and Reggae

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 07:05:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oops forgot

Velvet Underground. Eno was probably right when he said that hardly anyone bought their first album, but everyone who did formed a band. Scads of late 70s early 80s illuminaries reference it

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 12:47:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
AN establishment I used to frequent played the Velvet Underground with That Girl's (Nico?) album regularly for a few months, and I heard it several times.  I really don't understand what the big deal about them was.  I don't challenge that they were influential - facts are facts.  I just don't get it.
by Zwackus on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 03:46:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
'music from big pink'... the band.

'sgt pepper'...beatles

'astral weeks', 'moondance'...van morrison

'blonde on blonde', 'planet waves', 'freewheelin', 'highway 51 revisited'... dylan

'after the goldrush', 'harvest'...neil young

'electric ladyland'...hendrix

'sticky fingers', 'beggars' banquet', 'sat maj request'... stones

'bluesbreakers'....john mayall

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 01:13:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a true list for anyone living in London '65 onwards.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 01:27:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can go with most of that, but Sat Maj request ? I've always felt that it was a weak album entirely overshadowed by the albums which followed it. But I think you had to be there to grok it, and I wasn't

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 02:04:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I'd agree. Beggars' Banquet and Let It Bleed, for me.

Another twosome hard to separate is Bringing It All Back Home and Highway 61 Revisited.

You're right that Revolver was the most influential Beatles' album, it was practically the opening statement of the "concept album" concept.

The Who, My Generation (?)

Agree with melo on The Band's Big Pink, Hendrix' Electric Ladyland, Neil Young's After The Goldrush.

Velvets were very "influential", so I'd probably pick The Velvet Underground & Nico.

The Piper at the Gates of Dawn or Saucerful of Secrets for the Floyd.

It's not only that I like songs with words, but I think a new style of singer/songwriter music began in the 60s, and I'd probably pick Leonard Cohen's Songs From a Room as a starter.

I'll probably think of more, but not for now.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 03:27:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A Finnish journalist of my acquaintance claimed (on FB today) to have an unprecedented 82 of the 100 items in his collection. It's possible. He's nuts.

I don't know how you measure 'influential'.  Most sold, most copied, most publicized, most fan mail? Who gets the 'That's All Right" credit - Elvis or Arthur Crudup?

I prefer to think of musical influences not as samples,  but as good old analogue rivers of connections flowing down through time.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 01:24:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can you link that questionaire? For now what I found was Time's All-TIME 100 Albums from 2006, on which I only know (as albums, not a single or two) these:

Sixties & Seventies:

  • Beatles: Abbey Road
  • Beatles: The Beatles ("The White Album")
  • Beatles: Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
  • Johnny Cash: At Folsom Prison
  • Beatles: Revolver
  • Simon & Garfunkel: Bridge Over Troubled Water

I (or my parents) had all of the above on vinyl or cassette and I loved them all, so certainly influential on me.

Eighties:

  • Madonna: Like a Prayer
  • U2: The Joshua Tree
  • Paul Simon: Graceland
  • Michael Jackson: Thriller
  • R.E.M.: Document

Of these, I wasn't ever a fan of Like a Prayer, and only have The Joshua Tree and Graceland.

Nineties:

  • Radiohead: OK Computer
  • Oasis: (What's the Story) Morning Glory
  • U2: Achtung Baby
  • Nirvana: Nevermind
  • R.E.M.: Out of Time

Of these, I wasn't into Oasis or Nirvana.

2000s:

  • Radiohead: Kid A
  • Eminem: Manic Street Preachers

I would add:

Seventies:

  • Queen: Night At The Opera
  • Pink Floyd: The Wall
  • Boney M: Nightflight to Venus (with apologies; but certainly influential)

Eighties:
  • Dire Straits: Brothers in Arms
  • Queen: A Kind of Magic
  • Genesis: Invisible Touch
  • Kate Bush: Hounds of Love
  • Modern Talking: The 1st Album (with lots of apologies, only mention it again for being influential)

Nineties:
* Manic Street Preachers: Generation Terrorists

...and surely several more I forgot.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 04:41:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think there is considerable difference between popular and influential.

The late beatles albums might have contributed a riff to Liam Gallagher's Oasis career but, it terms of forging a new pathway, their bolt as shot with Sgt Pepper. And to be honest I have similar reservations about most of those, best albums by the artists, but influential ? dunno.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 05:15:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well their list is at http://www.influentialalbums.com/

and it's all influential if you're looking at chart sales. and probably only US chart sales at that, but there are piles of rare records that you find people know of

Stiff Little Fingers' `Inflammable Material' was the first album put out by Rough Trade, which isn't important in itself, although was the first inipendent record to sell over 100,000 copies, but enabled the distribution net that allowed people like factory records and 2-tone and many others to get to market.

other bands that you'd see as influential are strangely missing, Nirvana's nevermind is in the list, but for truly influential album of the time you'd instead need to look at the Pixies 2Surfer Rosa" or "Doolittle" or Sonic Youths "Daydream Nation" and if you're looking  at UK music influences, the terribly underrated Cardicas are missing "a little man and the whole wold window" or if you're willing to go to video then "maresnest" which is one of the best live concert videos ever.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 07:41:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think there is considerable difference between popular and influential.

In the same vein, there is a difference between influential and pioneering. An album only the select few listened to may not have been the one to inspire other musicians, much less the British-American youth of the time in general, even less elsewhere. For example, I discovered the pre-Invisible Touch Genesis only in the nineties, and didn't remember hearing any of it on the radio as a kid.

There is also the issue of whether an artist's biggest musical influence was through an entire album or some singles (with only harcore fans knowing the rest of the pioneering album). I knew singles of virtually all artists on my list from albums preceding the one I listed.

Regarding the Beatles albums, having been born after they dissolved, I can't know what kind of impact and influence each had on contemporaries, so I find it interesting that both you and afew named Revolver as their most influential. (For me, The White Album was always the Beatles album, and Abbey Road the symbol of the end of the sixties and the start of seventies introspection, while Revolver still had traces of fifties rock.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 02:11:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Funny, of those 90's 4, those (Nirvana and Oasis) were the two I liked.  I've tried to listen to Radiohead a few times, OK Computer and Kid A, and I simply can't.  Best described as Tuneless Droning, in my opinion.

Oasis was tolerable.  I never minded when the owner of earlier mentioned establishment put on Morning Glory.  But Nirvana rocks.

by Zwackus on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 03:51:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, tastes differ :-) There are Oasis and Nirvana songs I like, but not their debut singles. In the case of Oasis, I was "sos-so" with most songs on their debut album, but listening to it day in day out on a three-week trip to Scandinavia, I quickly concluded that there is a certain repetitiveness to their songwriting (something their avid fans had to recognise after several albums with more of the same). As for Radiohead, I'm listening to Kid A right now :-)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 02:18:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Generally speaking, I'm indifferent to songwriting.  The voice as an instrument matters, and particularly bad (modern Emo songs are annoying) and particularly amusing (puns are great) lyrics get noticed.  But I'm definitely a music guy.  A lot of really popular stuff ends up being quite solid, musically, so I'm often able to appreciate it though it's targeted well outside my demographic.
by Zwackus on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 09:15:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Since it certainly changed music around the globe, strange that the hip hop tradition is left out of the discussion. From Grandmaster Flash and Afrika Bambaataa, through LL Cool J, run DMC, Public Enemy, and the breakthrough into whiteyland with the Beastie Boys.

I haven't singled out one or two, but albums from that period have to be hugely influential on the development of modern music.

Of course, we've also skipped jimmy Rodgers and Hank Williams, who laid the foundation to singer-songwriter era. And Duke Ellington has to be in there somewhere.

time to sleep.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin

by Crazy Horse on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 08:29:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Totally agreed.  I'm not familiar enough with Old School, (or any school really) to point out the most influential or anything, but something needs to go on there.  Hip Hop has conquered the US charts and world music as well.  I've only heard a bit here and there, but Afro-French Rap and Hip Hop kills.
by Zwackus on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 03:53:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Story:

My son calls me to come down to the studio, something i need to hear. Turns out it's (in his opinion) the first time the blues has been integrated into a house beat. I had to agree. (This was way before St. Germain became famous.)

The son then says, "can you believe it, the French can't rock at all, but it's a frenchman who gets this done the first time, wow."

I've been a St. Germain fan ever since.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anas Nin

by Crazy Horse on Sun Jan 27th, 2013 at 12:32:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The really influential albums were by black artists - the roots of blues, funk, soul, hip-hop, rock 'n roll, jazz, techno, reggae. and so on.

A lot of the albums on the list are by white people who diluted black influence with white culture and took it into the white commercial mainstream.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 05:36:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Late 50s and not an album, but as far as instrumentals go, this is really nice.

by sgr2 on Sun Jan 27th, 2013 at 04:15:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I had occasion to distress (a technical term in the antique trade for making things look older than they are) a dining table at a trendy Chelsea restaurant with the above-mentioned Mr Wray. He was a lot of fun. (I'm name-dropping as ever). Seventies, maybe early '76.

Finnish progressive band Wigwam was about to record at the Manor for Virgin. Simon Draper arranged a celebratory lunch and Mr Wray turned up for some reason never explained. Most of the band were there and, being Finns, would never look at an open bar bill without a sense of challenge. The restaurant was playing a Latin music track quite loud and our table became so percussively inspired that everyone used their cutlery to tap out complex rhythms on the edge of the table - and items upon the table.

Enthusiasm can dig deep into the edge of a refectory table. But we were taking it back two centuries.

The Maître D. had that certain haunted look when a valued client causes trouble. "Oooh MISTER Draper! How naissa you have the fun!"

Mr Wray continued to be inscrutable behind shades. He had that mysterious triumphal look of a hypnotist who'd got an entire audience to cluck like chickens. I liked him.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jan 27th, 2013 at 04:43:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Never mind the Bollocks. Sex pistols. Killed the punk scene stone dead by releasing a heavy metal album

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 12:47:47 PM EST
Oh I don't know, there was still piles of stuff came from the punk scene after that

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 01:16:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tina Turner to become Swiss citizen and give up U.S. passport | The Raw Story
US pop legend Tina Turner, who has been living in Switzerland since 1995, will soon receive Swiss citizenship and will give up her US passport, Swiss media reported Friday.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 01:02:10 PM EST
I happened upon a glowing review of Spielberg's Lincoln, but, instead of the film, it led me to read up on the real events on Wikipedia: the genesis of the Emancipation Proclamation, and earlier the origins of the Civil War.

What surprised me was just how hypocritical and distortive the modern Southern myth of Lincoln's dublicity is. (A myth I encountered argued frequently on web forums and believed to be at least partly true.) I mean:

  • there is all the emphasis on states' rights, whereas all the seceding states explicitly or implicitly argued for states' rights with slavery as the only or main right to defend;
  • there is the economic narrative of the industrial North pursuing tariffs which strangle the agrarian economy of the South, but this conflict went both ways (Southern majorities forced rate reductions that hurt Northern industries) and the tariff issue barely appeared in actual secessionist rhetoric;
  • slavery was actually a strategic advantage for the South prior to the Emancipation Proclamation, because the bulk of the workforce running the export economy wasn't drafted into the army and continued work at full capacity;
  • there is the claim that Lincoln wasn't a principled opponent of slavery. I found this originates in a mis-interpretation of a letter in which he makes a distinction between his Presidential objectives and private opinion and which was actually part of a political maneuvering intended to get grudging support for emancipation from Northern war supporters only interested in national unity;
  • many a web warrior is outraged at Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus to persecute political opponents, but apparently forget that the Confederates did the same (not to mention lack of PoW treatment for blacks among captured Union soldiers).


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 03:48:29 PM EST
Also a huge railroad connection with Lincoln. He supported the transcontinental railroad as part of his engagement with the moneyed railroad interests to provide political funding in exchange for monopolistic control of transportation and shipping.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo53.html

by asdf on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 04:21:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was aware of Lincoln's connections to railroad baron circles from his time as lawyer first and that's what gave me pause when reading the anti-Lincoln ranting years ago. But now I wonder whether this picture, too, needs some revision (your libertarian link also reminds me of Ayn Rand's take on the railroad barons).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 05:20:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well indeed. The financial disaster that was the end of the internal improvements programme of Illinois looks like the life lesson that inspired the federal land grants for railroads, with the stratospheric level of corruption as unintended consequence.

I also found this essay on Lincoln's railroad cases, written by a law and history professor. It also includes this part:

It is important to keep Lincoln's representation of railroads in perspective. In fact, Lincoln also regularly brought suit against railroads on behalf of individual clients. He instituted actions against carriers for nonpayment of supplies and for assessment of damages when land was taken by eminent domain.

...after several examples, this sections ends with the conclusion:

By the same token, it is an exaggeration to conclude, as historian Edward Pessen has done, that Lincoln was an "attorney for banks, insurance companies, gas companies, large mercantile firms, and manufacturers." It is at best only partially accurate to present Lincoln as a corporate attorney. Although he represented railroads and businesses, he also sued them. As another historian has pointed out, Lincoln "still took business as it came, and opposed the corporate interests as often as he represented them." This leads to the question of whether Lincoln was in fact a hired gun. Perhaps the last word on this point should go to Lincoln's longtime legal partner, Herndon, who accurately declared that Lincoln was "purely and entirely a case lawyer."


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 06:45:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Interestingly enough, even though railroads are substantially reduced in importance here compared to earlier in the century, much of the legal infrastructure remains in place. A buddy of mine is working with his local community to fight a proposal by a shortline railroad (length 15 miles) to put in a propane storage station right next to a residential area. The local people can't make legal headway because the federal railroad exemption puts strict limits on what can be done to constrain railroad activities...

http://www.telegram.com/article/20130121/NEWS/101219962/-1/NEWS04

by asdf on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 10:04:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thomas DiLorenzo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Southern Poverty Law Center considers DiLorenzo one of the most important intellectuals "who form the core of the modern neo-Confederate movement." They believe DiLorenzo's depiction of president Abraham Lincoln paints Lincoln as a "paragon of wickedness, a man secretly intent on destroying states' rights and building a massive federal government."[11]


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 05:21:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The southerners are sore because one of the big factors in the war was that the northern railroads had standardized on standard gauge, while the south still had a mix of incompatible local standards. Being a railroad guy is just another mark against Lincoln in their viewpoint...
by asdf on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 06:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So a bunch of racist right wing sickbags are revealed to be hypocrites and liars with a casual attitude towards history.

And you are surprised in what way ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 05:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hm, yeah. The amount of distortion from the pro-confederate side has struck me also as noticable. Not that others don't hold their favourite versions of events but it is usually things more open to interpretation.

When it comes to Lincoln I think it is pretty clear that he was an opponent of slavery that ran as a moderate (ie without intent to do much about it) that got the opportunity to abolish slavery by the actions of the Confederacy.

Speaking of the Confederacy and slavery. Years ago I read (in what I remmeber as a credible book) that at the end of the war the Davis administration had a plan to bolster the army by giving freedom to slaves that fought for the Confederacy. Far as I remember it did not amount to any troops on the ground, but when I tried to check the details of it I just ran into lots and lots of pro-Confederate pages without substance. So does this ring a bell for anyone here?

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 07:13:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As far as I understand a confederate general proposed to free slaves willing to fight in the confederate army. Time-frame: somewhere after the emancipation declaration, when deserting slaves became a bigger problem for the south.

But he was put down because the war wuold then have lost it's purpose.

Two or three months before the end of the war Jefferson Davies and his cabinet then relented and introduced this possibility, but there was sparse practical application.

by IM on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 11:55:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I came across that yesterday on Wikipedia:

Slavery in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In spite of the South's shortage of manpower, until 1865, most Southern leaders opposed arming slaves as soldiers. However, a few Confederates discussed arming slaves, and some free blacks had offered to fight for the South. Finally in early 1865 General Robert E. Lee said black soldiers were essential, and legislation was passed. The first black units were in training when the war ended in April.[102]


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 02:33:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, thanks. Think I looked at that article, but overlooked the paragraph. Bruce C. Levine, Confederate Emancipation, googling gave a number of reviews one of which leads back to the topic at hand.

Alterdestiny: Book Review: Bruce Levine, Confederate Emancipation: Southern Plans to Free and Arm Slaves during the Civil War

Levine also usefully discusses the origins of the Lost Cause myth. He shows that it started immediately after the war. Jefferson Davis and Alexander Stephens denied that slavery had anything to do with the war. As early as 1867, ex-slaveholders started invoking the myth that they got along beautifully with blacks before the war and that race relations would have processed dandily had the North not interfered. That continued for a century, promoted by Confederate sympathizers in the decades after the war. By the 1890s, the new historical profession, led by people who fully imbibed in the pro-Confederate ideas of the time, placed these ideas in their books, creating the historical narrative for race relations and the Civil War until the 1960s


A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 02:54:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]


"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 04:08:37 PM EST
The new job seems to be doing a number on my free time this month. On the plus side it's a lot of fun, and I got to stick it to the City of London to the tune of a couple of million € yesterday.

Also, at this rate I can afford both making rent and going to the meetup this year. So there's that.

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 04:42:12 PM EST
If you made a couple of million I think you could pay everybody's rent and meetup costs.


Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot
by ATinNM on Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 08:55:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sadly, it's just a couple of millions saved for the company. I don't get percentages.

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 02:57:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Saving a couple of millions for the company. OK...
Making rent. Good...
Going to the meetup this year. Excellent...
Sticking it to the City of London. Priceless...
by Bernard on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 12:15:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Been wondering what has happened to you. It is good to have work.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 01:13:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Be good to see you.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 01:39:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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