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Greece: The next step; introducing the Euriou

by Frank Schnittger Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 12:07:34 PM EST

Let us assume for the moment that the Greek people reject the Eurogroup ultimatum by an overwhelming margin and that the EU/Troika/Council/EuroGroup continue their childish stance of throwing sand in the face of Tsipras/Varoufakis every time they make a proposal. Let us further assume that despite running a structural primary surplus the Greek Government runs out cash in the near future: so much so that it has to default on its IMF loans and has difficulty paying wages, pensions and contractors.

This will be mainly because the current crisis has further depressed the economy and created a crisis of confidence which will result in the citizenry and businesses hoarding cash thereby depressing tax revenues further. Banks will also struggle for liquidity in the absence of further ELA assistance from the ECB. Thus, even though the state and the banks may still be technically solvent, liquidity will become a huge problem, the more so because the cash cow of the tourist industry appears to be in severe recession.

What will happen then?  


The suggestion mooted here and elsewhere is that the Greek Government will start part-paying its staff, pensioners and contractors in Tax IOU's denominated in Euros (Eurious). Thus a contractor might be paid 60% in hard cash Euros, and 40% in Tax IOU's also denominated in Euros, but not trade-able internationally, because they will have been printed by the Greek Central bank without the approval of the ECB. This new "money" can be used to pay tax and perhaps certain utility, health and education bills on a basis pari passu with hard currency.

In fact this new currency will be a Euro in all but name, but not usable to pay for imports because it will not be accepted outside Greece. Of course traders inside Greece, who obtain many of their goods from abroad will not be very happy to accept payment in Eurious, and some will doubtless refuse to accept them. A grey market may well develop where Euro cash rich businesses (tourism sector) will trade Euros for Eurious and use the latter to settle their tax bills. Should a Euriou trade at say 80% of a Euro, tourism sector industries will be able to achieve an effective 20% reduction in their tax bill (thus largely offsetting the VAT tax hike which the Government may still have to impose to improve its liquidity and solvency).

Not everyone will be happy. A state employee paid 40% in Eurious who only pays tax at an effective rate of 20% will still have 20% of his salary in Eurious - perhaps more than he needs to pay his utility, health and education bills or on purely local produce. If he chooses to exchange this for Euros on the grey market, he will effectively be accepting a 20% cut on that part of his salary. A salary cut in all but name. However there is no reason why domestically produced Greek goods should cost any more in Eurious than in Euros and the state may well introduce laws requiring all or most traders to accept Eurious at face value. This would systematically discourage imports and promote indigenous produce.

The beauty of this solution is that at no stage does it require Greece to formally leave the Eurozone. The problem of liquidity will have been resolved, and an effective internal devaluation will have improved the competitive position of the Greek economy. (Exporters will of course continue to earn hard Euros as normal). The Eurozone countries will doubtless rage and call foul and seek to have Greece expelled for issuing "counterfeit" money. But in fact no counterfeit will have been issued - there is no pretense that the Euriou is identical to the Euro, and there is no mechanism for expelling Greece from the Eurozone. Many countries - Macedonia, Malta, Serbia, and Montenegro - do in practice accept Euros in parallel with their own currency even though they are not formally part of the Eurozone. (Euros are even widely accepted in parts of the UK - e.g. N. Ireland).

Assisted by this effective internal devaluation and freed from the immediate requirement to pay off IMF loans and introduce further grossly deflationary measures, confidence (and national pride) may soon return to Greece. The structural primary surplus may soon assert itself (as the economy recovers from the immediate crisis) leading the Government to a position where it can start winding down the creation of new Eurious and perhaps wipe them out altogether by exchanging them for hard euros.

Of course if the ECB simply did its job as a central bank, lender of last resort and guardian of the payments system, there would be no need for Greece to introduce a parallel currency to maintain liquidity. In theory, even the threat of such a parallel currency should bring the ECB to its senses and encourage it to perform its duties correctly. But this is the ECB we are talking about - not even the worst of the EU institutions - but in dereliction of its duties nevertheless.

Meanwhile the Eurogroup leaders will be standing by impotently but absolutely seething with rage. Their bluff, bullying and blundering will have been called for what it truly is. All sorts of "sanctions" against Greece will have been mooted and threatened, and perhaps some even implemented with or without legal sanction. But so long as the Greek Government can pay its way, they will be powerless over it. At some stage, seeing that they risk a total loss of their Greek "assets", they may agree a debt restructuring and come to a deal to "normalize" the situation. But they will then be doing so on more equal terms with Greece.

Not only will the Austerians (the promoters of austerity) be revealed for the anti-scientific, sadistic and economic illiterates that they are, but the neo-liberal fever that has griped Europe will have been broken. New parties like Podemos and Syriza will ensure that a generational shift in European political leadership happens sooner rather than later. An Taoiseach Enda Kenny and Michael Noonan had better call an election before the Greek economic recovery becomes evident, or else they too will reap the whirlwind.

Once again, we will all be in debt to Greek democracy.

[PS I have made a few minor amendments to the above to make it more suitable for submission as an opinion piece to Irish papers]

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In this scenario I would expect Greece to be met with some sort of sanctions, since it would be breaking the Maastricht treaty.

Ultimately, the ECB can shut-off Greece from Target2, which will effectively create a new currency in Greece by scrapping direct conversion with whatever currency is issued in Greece.

You might find me At The Edge Of Time.

by Luis de Sousa (luis[dot]a[dot]de[dot]sousa[at]gmail[dot]com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 12:38:24 PM EST
The Government is simply issuing tax IOUs, not technically a new currency. How does this breach the Maastricht treaty?

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 12:42:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course if the ECB simply did its job as a central bank, lender of last resort and guardian of the payments system, there would be no need for Greece to introduce a parallel currency to maintain liquidity. In theory, even the threat of such a parallel currency should bring the ECB to its senses and encourage it to perform its duties correctly. But this is the ECB we are talking about - not even the worst of the EU institutions - but in dereliction of its duties nevertheless.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 12:39:54 PM EST
Greece may simply decide it can faster turn around its economy in a state of default inside the eurozone than in introducing a new currency. We all know a new one will give it policy maneuvers that aid it in getting back on its feet. But if they can maintain banks and an economy from all the euros in circulation, it may be able to get by with simple capital controls. The bank system will freeze up. But it's been frozen for awhile. Taxes will be impossible to collect. But they've been impossible to collect for awhile. The trade-off is this: no need to create a litigious nightmare inside the country and you can try to pump up the economy with some shock measures instantly.
by Upstate NY on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 01:51:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The trade-off is this: no need to create a litigious nightmare inside the country and you can try to pump up the economy with some shock measures instantly.

How do the shock measures work to pump up the economy while it remains frozen by the liquidity crisis?

The advantage of the EuroIOUs over a #Grexit is that it is much less of an introduction of a new money than #Grexit would require. It is also a more substantial threat to being copied by Portugal, Italy, Spain, or whomever the Eurogroup Finance Ministers set their sights on next, so a stronger inducement than #Grexit to Germany making its peace with telling itself a small additional measure of the truth about the bail out of German banks by the German government via irredeemable loans to the Greek government.

If operation in default allowed the government to have a small enough current deficit to make immediate cash payments needed on current tax receipts, I could see simply operating in default as being workable. But so long as the liquidity crisis is creating such a large current deficit that the government will not be able to function without monetizing their deficit, then given that the ECB refuses to do so, either leaving the Euro so that the Greek reserve bank can do so, or creating a parallel domestic money in the Euro unit, seem like the two ways to allow the Greek government to monetize a portion of their deficit and create some liquidity in the economy.

Its much easier to roll back the EurIOUs if the economy were to recover sufficiently that the primary surplus is realized as a current balance ... stop issuing EurIOUs as they become less necessary.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 09:37:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The trade-off is this: no need to create a litigious nightmare inside the country and you can try to pump up the economy with some shock measures instantly.
There is a much simpler way to deal with litigious nightmares, if you are a sovereign parliament: Refuse to entertain the litigation.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:34:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Zero Hedge makes a similar argument but does so in the context of using the money saved by issuing IOU's to pay off external debt instead. This strategy is unsustainable because the amount required to service international debt is greater than any primary surplus likely to be achievable in the short term. The only reason my proposal is sustainable is because Greece is in structural primary surplus and thus can pay its way once the current extreme crisis of confidence is overcome.  In the longer term - once actual surplused are being achieved I would recommend unwinding the Eurious before paying any agreed interest on a re-structured debt-load.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 05:39:36 PM EST
Stephen Collins: The Greek effect - how Greece has become part of Irish politics

The Greek crisis has intruded itself into Irish party politics over the past week and could even have a direct impact on the outcome of the next election here.

At the EU summit in Brussels, Enda Kenny told his Greek counterpart Alexis Tsipras to do his political business the Irish way and come up with a realistic deal that other countries could accept. He was responding to a tweet from Tsipras, who suggested Ireland and Portugal had received preferential treatment to Greece from the EU institutions and the IMF.

At home Tánaiste Joan Burton was blunter, complaining Syriza was more interested in lecturing the rest of Europe than running the Greek economy.

At one level the clash between the Coalition and the Greek government is about party politics. Sinn Féin, the hard left, Shane Ross and some Independent TDs were vociferous supporters of Syriza during the Greek election in January.

As early as his victory speech on the night of the election, Tsipras reciprocated the sentiments. "The victory of Syriza will be followed by the Spanish people electing Podemos and United Left and next year, in Ireland, with Sinn Féin," he told a jubilant crowd of supporters in Athens.

Two months later a Syriza government minister was guest of honour at the Sinn Féin Ardfheis in Derry. Euclid Tsakalotos, Greek deputy finance minister, proclaimed: "Syriza and Sinn Féin as well as others . . . are part of a great realignment in European politics."

Such open support for the Government's political opponents was hardly the best way of persuading the Coalition parties to look favourably on Greek demands for a new deal, but the issue goes far deeper than pure party self-interest.

If Syriza gets a substantial debt write- off and further financial aid with no serious commitments to political and economic reform, the response of the main Irish parties to the crisis here will be utterly discredited. The political implications of that are obvious. Sinn Féin in Ireland, Podemos in Spain and any number of populist left and right wing parties would be on the march in Europe. Political contagion rather than economic contagion would become a real threat to the euro and the future of the EU itself.



Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 06:27:53 PM EST
Stephen Collins: The Greek effect - how Greece has become part of Irish politics

Nonetheless, Kenny and Minister for Finance Michael Noonan are clearly impatient with the Greek negotiating stance and are determined to show the Irish electorate the implications of following the Greek line. There is also the small matter of the €350 million the Irish taxpayer has lent to Greece as part of the last bailout. A debt write-off would mean there would suddenly be a hole in Government accounts and an extra €350 million would have to be found to plug it.

Any new deal would probably involve more Irish borrowed money being piled on top of that. Joan Burton put it bluntly: "When Yanis Varoufakis asks the Irish people for solidarity, he also needs to persuade us that any support we give will be money well spent. We also need to be persuaded that the Greek government will keep . . . the undertakings given to small countries such as Ireland who are themselves under fiscal pressure. And so far the case made . . . is less than persuasive."

The Irish Government inherited the 2010 bail-outs for both Ireland and Greece, both of which largely revolved around banking debt being turned into Sovereign debt. It is understandable that they would be reluctant to write that off, just now, heading into the next election. What is missing is an appreciation that the Greek economy is in a fundamentally different place to the Irish economy, and that the Irish model of attracting FDI from the USA with low corporate taxation is not transferable to other countries, and may, in any case have a limited shelf life for Ireland. It has taken 50 years to transform the Irish economy through that route.  Greece doesn't have that sort of time and the international corporate taxation environment is changing in any case.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 06:45:11 PM EST
Cliff Taylor: A tale of two economies - could Greece learn from Ireland?
How unwise then for the EU and IMF to pick a fight last year over the Samaras government's 2015 budget plans. And how damaging for the new government to allow delay and indecision to continue for six months, destroying confidence again, undermining Greece's banking system and getting itself backed into a terrible corner.

Cliff Taylor: A tale of two economies - could Greece learn from Ireland?
But Greece's debt pile is still too high, and will never all be repaid. That Europe and the IMF continue to pretend otherwise is crazy.

But this weekend there are more pressing concerns, as the Greek banking system is on the brink of collapse and the country is about to default. Against this background, Greece's creditors' insistence on discussing structural reforms and picking at the details of more austerity is as bizarre as the Greek government's tactics and the risks it appears willing to take.

First stop the crisis and save the banks. Because the costs of not doing that to both sides will be enormous.

Personally I think it was politically impossible for Greece to continue as it was, and also for the Eurogroup to sell more debt restructuring to its political bases.  Consequently an actual default is unavoidable followed by a new political situation in a few months time when new options may hove into establishment view.

I also think the Obama regime cannot allow Greece to drift out of the Euro/Nato orbit. But again, that Geo-political perspective will only become dominant once the current obsession with "reforms" has been consigned to the dustbin of history.  They were never going to work anyway, but the Eurogroup needed them as political cover for their base.  Time for new realities to dawn post an actual default - when creditors start worrying about getting any of their money back.

The big question is whether Syriza and the Greek economy survive in the meantime, and that is the question this diary seeks to address.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 07:17:35 PM EST
I've been a fan of a conversion of Greek debt to Consolidated Stock (Consols aka undated credit) since July 2011

Then over this ground again in February this year as Greece - a Varoufakis Conversion

Of course, credit is another issue - literally.

Greece - a Varoufakis Conversion

Greece's new Syriza government has two major economic challenges to address: a Resolution of Greece's unsustainable debt burden followed by a Transition to a long term sustainable economy.
Conventional resolution of sovereign debt is a debt for debt swap: replacing existing debt with new debt which requires a smaller percentage of Greece's national income and resources to service.

So it is that Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis has already tabled a proposal for two new types of debt, one linked to GDP for the IMF and holders of Greek sovereign debt, and the other of perpetual debt, which would replace Greek debt held by the ECB and which would be repaid as and when Greece is in a position to do so.

During 2014 the average duration of Greek liabilities was about 16 years, and the interest payments by Greece required (net) some 2.6% of GDP to service.

This proposal is for a conversion of the existing dated 'debt' liabilities into a modern form of the undated credit instruments ('stock') which pre-date modern banking by hundreds, if not thousands of years.

The Proposal

Firstly, Greece would dedicate an agreed proportion of tax income to long term funding. Let us say 5% of Greek tax income and an initial allocation of €12bn.

Greece then issues stock (undated credit instruments) at a discount, each of which is returnable in payment for €1.00 of Greece's taxes. This new issuance would then be allocated between the different creditors in a way reflecting the repayment date and interest rate of Greek liabilities.

From then on Greece would use 5% of its tax income to buy back this stock for cancellation, and the faster the growth of Greek GDP and taxation, the faster would be the rate of return of the stock.

Example

Greece has existing aggregate public liabilities of €320 billion (rounded up to the nearest €10bn).

Let us say that Greece exchanges 480 billion prepay tax credits of €1.00 value each for the outstanding €320 billion debt. The holders of these instruments will make an aggregate profit of €160 billion or 50% when these instruments are returned by being bought back at €1.00 par value.

The rate of return per annum then depends upon how many years it takes for Greece to buy back these instruments. At a constant GDP/rate of tax collection this will take 40 years (€480bn divided by initial tax allocation of €12bn).

So the rate of return will be 50% profit divided by 40 years or 1.25% per annum.

 If tax collections fall (a separate subject to be addressed under the Transition heading) the rate of return will be less (slower), while if tax collections rise, whether from increased GDP or more effective tax collection or both, then the rate of return will be higher (faster).

"This Innovation Will Never Work"

Well, actually UK sovereigns funded their expenditure in precisely this way for centuries, and the evidence of that remains in the English language to this day. The phrase 'tax return' refers to the annual accounting event at which the tax credit instrument (tax prepaid at a discount) was returned to the Exchequer for accounting and cancellation.

The phrase 'rate of return' was literally the rate over time at which an undated credit instrument could be returned to the issuer for cancellation against value supplied by the issuer. Finally, the 'stock' was the name given to that half of a split wooden tally stick accounting record which was given to the creditor, while the issuer retained the 'counter-stock'.

This ancient asset class of undated stock - credit instruments - in fact pre-dates the conflicting forms of financial instrument which came later: common stock (shares in a Joint Stock Company) and loan stock (fixed interest 'debt').

A "Varoufakis Conversion"

The consolidation of existing liabilities is not a new concept either, and the most relevant example (albeit the UK was anything but in economic distress at the time) is the way that UK Chancellor George Goschen consolidated all existing annuities (these liabilities were not misrepresented as debt in those days) into a single class in 1888.

So my proposal to Yanis Varoufakis is to take a leaf out of Goschen's book; create a new class of consolidated annuities for Greece; and carry out a debt/equity swap with Greece's creditors.

Maybe he'll start a fashion?



"The future is already here -- it's just not very evenly distributed" William Gibson
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Jun 28th, 2015 at 08:07:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can Greece learn from Iceland?

by das monde on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 05:09:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is no doubt that Tsripas and Varoufakis would have to resign - and probably retire from public life - if the Greek people disregard their advice and vote for the Troika ultimatum. It would be too much to expect that anyone in the Troika or Europgroup would resign if the Greek people vote, by a large margin, to reject their ultimatum, even though that would be pretty strong evidence of a spectacular over-reach on their parts.

This was never a symmetrical conversation of equals.  It is a resigning, backs to the wall exercise for Greek leaders, and a political, box ticking exercise for everyone else - to ensure they are not blindsided by political opponents at home. But would it be too much to expect that some Troika and Eurogroup leaders - at least - would come to admit publicly that they got it wrong and that a new approach is needed, post referendum?

I'm not holding my breath.  Political realities can be slow to change.  My suspicion is that it will take at least 6 months, and possibly a few years, of Greece in default but not in melt-down for people to realize that maybe the Greeks were right after all, that they took the only viable course open to them, and that if anyone wants any of their money back they had better make their peace with the Greek leadership.

But of course nobody made any mistakes. Everybody was just observing the political realities and imperatives of the time.  Many will even claim they knew all the time things would turn out this way.  And the political class will turn its attention to the next crisis, possibly having learned very few lessons along the way...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 03:08:59 AM EST
"There is no doubt that Tsripas and Varoufakis would have to resign - and probably retire from public life - if the Greek people disregard their advice and vote for the Troika ultimatum."

Well, it is probably true, but that is a problem (and it would be terribly unfair too).
Did George Bush resign when it turned out that there were no WMD in Iraq? No, he actually stood again and stole the election again.

Here, Tsipras reckons that he has no mandate either way, therefore takes the democratic route of asking his people to choose. Yes, he has a view as to what they should vote, but precisely he is saying that he cannot make the call alone. And that would be stronger resignation grounds than making a spectacularly wrong call without bothering to consult your polity?

To boot, the Greek people will go to vote believing that voting no equals leaving the Euro - whereas there is no legal way for this to follow. I don't believe that it is likely that EURIOU -that we have long identified here as the appropriate next step- can be explained in a week, especially when the Troika will lie about its legality (it is legal in the Lisbon treaty).

The whole thing has a very France 1936 taste to it. A popular movement came to power in France, one which was to leave a lasting legacy for everyone despite its short life. The elites went overboard in order to kill it, being totally fine with promoting even fascism in the process. Indeed they disappeared, not to return.
And here we are again: Syriza has behaved impeccably democratically, and that could spell the end of them.

This is sickening.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 04:45:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As I noted in Luis's thread, I think it's far from game over.

A week is a long time in politics!

I think Tsipras will recommend a Yes vote, on a substantially different offer from the Troika. How will Syriza react? It depends how different the offer is.

I rather think they have fallen into a carefully-constructed trap, and that the final deal will be substantially better than what could have been obtained over the weekend.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 05:00:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"I think Tsipras will recommend a Yes vote, on a substantially different offer from the Troika."

Oh, I believe it quite possible - indeed I have already said that I believed that Greece would stay in the Euro, because it would be too much of a problem for the powers that be if it did not.
There would thus have to be a different offer, unless polls show that there is hardly any chance for a no vote even on the existing offer.

But my point was that even if the referendum did not go the way Tsipras recommended, it would be very unfortunate that this should mean the end of Tsipras politically. Essentially it would clearly show that following the rules of democracy is a career-ending move.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 06:07:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Greek debt crisis| The Guardian
  • GERMAN CHANCELLOR MERKEL SAYS EUROPE LIVES FROM THE ABILITY TO MAKE COMPROMISES
  • GERMAN CHANCELLOR MERKEL SAYS GERMAN FINMIN SCHAEUBLE IS ALSO IN FAVOUR OF THIS APPROACH

Oh, so she's put him back on his chain? Administered his medication? That's good news.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 06:55:35 AM EST
Greek debt crisis | The Guardian

The door is still open, Juncker says, but he's not announcing a new proposal now.

We really moved mountains, until the last minute, until the Greek authorities closed the door...

So, despite reports, I am not announcing anything new today, he adds.

Calling Tsipras's bluff?
Maybe they are counting on Greeks voting yes against the government's recommendations, so consider that they don't need to improve their offer?

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 07:28:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just a WAG :

Juncker took on the "bad news" role in an arrangement, in order to give the "good news" role to Merkel?

Stay tuned.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 09:29:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No. Merkel, Hollande, Renzi and Junker sing all from the same sheet.
by rz on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:39:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No. Merkel, Hollande, Renzi and Junker sing all from the same sheet.
by rz on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:39:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed. I'm still looking for reasons to be optimistic.

How about this : Today was "Oh noes! Greece snubbed me! I'll never talk to him again, ever, ever! I'm going to my room to sulk."

Tomorrow will be "Why doesn't he call me? WHY??? Doesn't he know I love him?"

Wednesday : "I'm not going to make the first move. I'll send my girlfriend over to sound him out.".

A week is a long time...

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 12:08:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can we dial down the sexism, please?

Merkel may be a pro-Nazi pig, but there is no call for cat-calling on account of her gender.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 12:59:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed, but here I rather pictured Junker as needing some love.
He really kept repeating his "I did everything I could..."

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 01:00:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was actually thinking of Juncker, not Merckel. His performance was most affecting.

I might consider apologising for the implied generic misogyny, perhaps.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 01:29:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Moscovici: 'We are centimetres away' from Greek deal
"We are centimetres away from an agreement," EU finance commissioner Pierre Moscovici told French RTL radio Monday, referring to Greece "I wish [PM] Alexis Tsipras can call for a Yes vote" at the 5 July referendum, he said, adding that the vote "will not be about eurozone membership but reforms".
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 08:24:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
?
That is in total contradiction to the press conferences of Merkel and others.
by rz on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:41:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Merkel et al are not the ones who are going to not get paid tomorrow.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:47:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Whereas I may doubt that the agreement was all that close,  as for the latter part of his message, the contradiction is due to Merkel and al having lied with a straight face.

Alternatively, they were stating that the rule of law had been suspended sine die in the Eurozone and that not even pretence of it would be maintained.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:48:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Moscovici against Juncker? Renzi and Juncker said the vote was about euro versus drachma. A reply to Renzi would be, "If the Greeks vote NO, how will you kick them out of the eurozone?" Do these politicians listen to themselves at all? When they say it means Grexit in absolute terms, then they must answer how they intend to effect the absolute.
by Upstate NY on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:53:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspect that many Eurozone countries wouldn't be too unhappy if Greece would use parallel currency and delay payments to them and IMF because it would save them from agreeing to finance another bailout.
by Jute on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 08:55:57 AM EST
Lets hope so.
by rz on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:41:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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