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Grexit and Propaganda

by Metatone Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 03:49:18 AM EST

At the heart of this crisis is the misinformation put out by the Eurogroup & Troika and by media sources across Europe.

Jake said it best in a comment on the other thread. (quoted below) But it's worth highlighting. He's responding to a critique of all the things the Greeks are not doing...

It appears that many members of the Eurogroup are resolved to "throw Greece up against the wall as a warning to others" and leaking and misinforming to justify that.

The IMF's desire to force tax rises and spending cuts when there is no possibility of devaluation goes against their own policies. Again, it's hard to find sane motives for such an action.

The great irony for me is that none in the IMF/Eurogroup seem to understand that their policy stance is only going to lead to vast market pressure and forthcoming crisis in Portugal and Italy. Just as with the ERM, once you show that there is money to be made in betting against the system, people will bet against the system.

This is a solvency crisis - and most of the periphery is insolvent - as others have noted, it's an inevitable result of the accounting identities. For Germany to run surpluses inside the EZ, other EZ countries have to be in the opposite state. In a real single currency this does not matter, but since the Eurogroup have decided this is not a real single currency, it will matter a lot - and it's very hard to see how it is not the end of the Euro.


JakeS:

Re: The last refuge of the scroundel (none / 0)
Efficient tax collection?
In the Greek proposal, vetoed by the IMF.

A 21st century grade well functioning public administration?
In the Greek proposal.

Corruption at Swedish, not Swaziland levels?
In the Greek proposal.

A well managed public service with a minimum of political patronage?
In the Greek proposal.

A public service size commensurate with the financial ability of Greek society?
Pure sophistry, since the "financial ability" of a society is decided by political convention: The marginal cost of printing more money is zero, so sovereign financing can never be a scarce resource. Only a political weapon wielded by those with a pathological dislike of the public sector.

A judical system that provides timely and workable resolution of business and administrative disputes comparably to other EMU members?
Already in the Greek proposal. Unless you meant to append "in favor of the businesses." In which case you can shove it where the sun won't shine.

When every substantive proposal on your list is either uncontroversial or in fact the Greek position that the Troika is rejecting, it may be a sign that you need to maybe go read the Greek proposals, instead of Stasi 2.0's lies about them in FAZ.

- Jake

Display:
Of course - the Greeks could vote to accept the Eurogroup proposals.

Will turning Greece into an even more failed state save the Euro?

Seems unlikely to me - the solvency issues in Portugal, Italy and elsewhere will not go away.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 03:53:18 AM EST
Juncker getting his view over quickly.

"Euro vs Drachma"

I wonder if Tsipras will resign if the vote goes YES.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:15:32 AM EST
That they should be parading stating that is the clearest sign that this is all about power - they can't be bothered to even pretend to care about legality.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:18:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The thing that people should be very worried about is that Juncker lied to everyone and that the ex-head of the IMF just invalidated everything a couple days ago. Is the head of the IMF a powerful person on the world stage? Juncker? It's breathtaking to me to see and hear what these two people have said and done over the last two days. And Peter Spiegel accuses Juncker of being a liar.
by Upstate NY on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:28:24 AM EST
The entire negotiation process has been one long clown parade of the Troika failing to agree on even elementary parts of their allegedly common position.

Greece has been effectively negotiating with three or four different parties, several of whom sent low-rent flunkies without a mandate to close a deal to the talks.

It is a testament to the professionalism and discipline of the Greek negotiation team that they did not call bullshit on the whole charade until they were ready to execute on their unilateral options.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 01:02:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Even as someone who was highly sympathetic to Syriza, I did not see the divisions between the various sets until only recently. My eyes opened to this possibility only when Jamie Galbreath mentioned it when he sat in on Eurogroup meetings early. He called them totally unprofessional, and unlike any govt negotiations he had taken part in elsewhere. Those who back Syriza also have to admit that even Varoufakis was unaware of what he was stepping into. He apparently didn't know the Eurogroup was ad hoc and informal until Saturday. I wonder if any of the other ministers knew but a few. I wonder if the whole of Europe knew. This goes to Angela Merkel. When a troika deal must be approved by the Eurogroup finance ministers (Schauble) and no one else, this means that she effectively disavowed her own leadership.
by Upstate NY on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 01:48:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would not bet money on what Varoufakis knew or did not know up until last Saturday. That guy is not someone I would want to play poker with.

It's pretty clear that Syriza initially underestimated both the viciousness and incompetence of their enemies. But the way in which they have played since they took the kid gloves off this Saturday shows that they must have gotten over that naivety several months ago.

One of the advantages of being sane is that you get to adjust your position in response to new information.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 01:56:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Council of the European Union:
The Eurogroup is an informal body where the ministers of the euro area member states discuss matters relating to their shared responsibilities related to the euro.
Protocol 14 to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union [PDF]
ON THE EURO GROUP

THE HIGH CONTRACTING PARTIES,

DESIRING to promote conditions for stronger economic growth in the European Union and, to that end, to develop ever closer coordination of economic policies within the euro area,

CONSCIOUS of the need to lay down special provisions for enhanced dialogue between the Member States whose currency is the euro, pending the euro becoming the currency of all Member States of the Union,

HAVE AGREED UPON the following provisions, which shall be annexed to the Treaty on European Union and to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union:

Article 1

The Ministers of the Member States whose currency is the euro shall meet informally. Such meetings shall take place, when necessary, to discuss questions related to the specific responsibilities they share with regard to the single currency. The Commission shall take part in the meetings. The European Central Bank shall be invited to take part in such meetings, which shall be prepared by the representatives of the Ministers with responsibility for finance of the Member States whose currency is the euro and of the Commission.

Article 2

The Ministers of the Member States whose currency is the euro shall elect a president for two and a half years, by a majority of those Member States.

Why there was a need to attach a protocol to the Treaties for this purpose, I do not know.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 04:02:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think I recall that at the time, France asked for a politic supervision of the independent central bank, which was refused, but not completely, the result being the eurogroup.
by Xavier in Paris on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 04:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wasn't this more about assuaging British concerns about institutionalising a sub-EU unit?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 04:30:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
France asked for a politic supervision of the independent central bank, which was refused

I do not know whether or not it was the British behind the refusal, but as unlikely as it might be in general that British concerns might be behind refusing something that the French wished to see happen (ahem)...

... it seems quite plausible that the British would object to setting up a formal political authority for the Eurozone ... it would be my first guess as to why "it was refused".

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Jun 30th, 2015 at 08:13:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think I remember Germany and the UK being on the same side there... Saxe-Cobourg in force! :-)

Joke aside, whereas Germany opposed thefrench proposal on the grounds that it would render the ECB dependent from a political body -which we now know was the thing to do-, Britain was more in line with your explanation: opposing whatever that may resemble a federal institution, and also opposing a european body that would exclude them.

by Xavier in Paris on Wed Jul 1st, 2015 at 01:01:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jesus Christ.

Is there a Europe or isn't there? It really doesn't seem that hard a question.

Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other. -- Dr Johnson

by melvin (melvingladys at or near yahoo.com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 05:13:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is. It's gearing up to crush Greece with economic warfare.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 05:20:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And then?

Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other. -- Dr Johnson
by melvin (melvingladys at or near yahoo.com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 05:25:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well - that's the 64 trillion dollar question.

But I wonder if the IMF are in fact perfectly happy with a divided Europe pockmarked by fascist nationalist governments. There certainly seems to be no interest in preventing that outcome.

Instead of a two-speed Europe you then have a half-speed Europe, where the various countries eye each other suspiciously and are reliably unable to agree on anything that doesn't involve bullying or exploiting a weaker partner.

If you're a neoliberal, what's not to like?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 09:42:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The IMF is a US creature, and the US has never had a problem with a divided world pockmarked by fascist nationalist governments, so long as they were willing to give us our cut.
by rifek on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:38:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Europe is there, back with the historical tradition of a continent-wide conflict.
by das monde on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 08:36:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Though the question there is whether there is a Eurozone or not. The answer is, financially, yes, for purposes of any form of democratic oversight, not officially. {squint} Well, if the finance ministers of the Eurozone happen to encounter one another, maybe perhaps they could chat about the Eurozone as a topic.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Jun 30th, 2015 at 08:06:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Two reasons I can think of:

  1. The Ueberklass wanted direct access to meetings of ministers without the inconvenience of having to disclose what was going on.
  2. The EU wanted the bureaucratic version of a BS grinder, a machine that looks and sounds impressive but can't actually do anything.

#2 is what we're seeing, although I'd be shocked to learn #1 didn't happen prior to the Eurogroup setting out.  The Greeks were expecting an informal body; they got the Trans Europa Fail Train.  I consider that alone preclusive evidence the EU and the troika never intended good faith negotiations.
by rifek on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:37:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It isn't easy walking the image tightrope Merkel is.  "I'm just an ossi Hausfrau.  With a doctorate in chemistry.  Who still can't understand a damned thing about sovereign finance."  All the while covering over that the EU was never anything but Germany's version of the Marshall Plan: Create markets for Germany but leave out the expense and nuisance of helping those markets set up economies.
by rifek on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:22:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Greece has been effectively negotiating with three or four different parties, several of whom sent low-rent flunkies without a mandate to close a deal to the talks.
I'd put the number of parties at about 22, at least...

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 03:39:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Technically yes, but I'm only counting the parties that actually matter.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 04:24:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, this is a point where I think the Greek government might have made a mistake. Varoufakis's approach at Eurogroup meetings seems to have been limited to economics arguments (falling on deaf ears), while Tsipras concentrated only on the main players. But if, for example, they had reminded the Slovakian government that public outrage about healthcare privatisation had a large part in their return to power, and what has been enforced in Greece is in many ways worse, I think they would have had a chance at chipping away at the unity front against them.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jun 30th, 2015 at 01:03:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]


A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 03:12:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Open letter | The Guardian

Over the past five years, the EU and the IMF have imposed unprecedented austerity on Greece. It has failed badly. The economy has shrunk by 26%, unemployment has risen to 27%, youth unemployment to 60% and, the debt-to-GDP ratio jumped from 120% to 180%. The economic catastrophe has led to a humanitarian crisis, with more than 3 million people on or below the poverty line.

Against this background, the Greek people elected the Syriza-led government on 25 January with a clear mandate to put an end to austerity. In the ensuing negotiations, the government made it clear that the future of Greece is in the Eurozone and the EU. The lenders, however, insisted on the continuation of their failed recipe, refused to discuss a write down of the debt - which the IMF is on record as considering unviable - and finally, on 26 June, issued an ultimatum to Greece by means of a non-negotiable package that would entrench austerity. This was followed by a suspension of liquidity to the Greek banks and the imposition of capital controls.

In this situation, the government has asked the Greek people to decide the future of the country in a referendum to be held next Sunday. We believe that this ultimatum to the Greek people and democracy should be rejected. The Greek referendum gives the European Union a chance to restate its commitment to the values of the enlightenment - equality, justice, solidarity - and to the principles of democracy on which its legitimacy rests. The place where democracy was born gives Europe the opportunity to recommit to its ideals in the 21st century.

Etienne Balibar

Costas Douzinas

Barbara Spinelli

Rowan Williams

Immanuel Wallerstein

Slavoj Zizek

Michael Mansfield

Judith Butler

Chantal Mouffe

Homi Bhabha

Wendy Brown

Eric Fassin

Tariq Ali



It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 01:32:08 PM EST
"Grexit" must mean ejection (or departure) of the Bank of Greece from the Eurosystem's payment clearing system Target2, and nothing else.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 03:04:09 PM EST
Maybe I'm pessimistic - but I don't see how any "NO" result does not end in ejection of BoG from the Target2 system.

(Of course, we'll see over the coming week whether the referendum result will be NO or YES.)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 06:05:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because that would be an illegal act, not conforming to the Treaties.

Of course, they may declare the Bank of Greece insolvent...

In any case, cutting of a country from the international payments system is about as hostile as a physical blockade or a siege. It's the kind of thing the US attempts to do on Iran, who could have predicted that the Eurozone would do it on an EU member state?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 06:09:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know I'm probably out on the crazy end with my predictions at the moment. I just feel the the Eurogroup has developed a pathological desire to defeat Syriza - and they don't care about "pact sunt servanda" except when it suits them.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 06:20:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Greece currently has a Target2 balance of around -100 billion Euros. That money would be gone. Peanuts?

Schengen is toast!

by epochepoque on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 06:53:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That is the money that already is gone.

Expelling Greece would force the creditors to realize that it is lost in their accounting books as well as in reality. But not expelling Greece would not magically make it not-lost.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:32:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's "the bezzle".

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 30th, 2015 at 12:14:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
About twice what it would have cost to fix the crisis in early 2010. But no, because Weimar!

And about 1/3 to 1/4 what will be lost if Greece actually defaults.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 30th, 2015 at 12:16:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it's more that elements in the Troika have always had a pathological desire to defeat Europe.

Remember a few years ago when Europe was beginning to act in an anti-corporate way?

Europe as a common market and finance zone is fine. Europe aa a strong and independent political entity - especially one with left-populist anti-corporate leanings - must be prevented at all costs.

If the Troika had any serious interest in maintaining the European ideal of a semi-federalised superstate the Greek crisis would never have happened.

Perhaps I'm overestimating the ability to strategise, But it seems to me that the bad faith has been rather calculated and deliberate, and some possible explanations go beyond simple bullying.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 09:37:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:

Remember a few years ago when Europe was beginning to act in an anti-corporate way?

Europe as a common market and finance zone is fine. Europe aa a strong and independent political entity - especially one with left-populist anti-corporate leanings - must be prevented at all costs.

If the Troika had any serious interest in maintaining the European ideal of a semi-federalised superstate the Greek crisis would never have happened.



'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 10:18:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You overestimate their planning horizon and the coherence of their position.

When they need three iterations of press releases just to align on what they want to pretend happened at a past meeting, how much planning can there realistically be for the future?

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:33:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You don't need to plan coherently to have this:

ThatBritGuy:

Europe as a common market and finance zone is fine. Europe aa a strong and independent political entity - especially one with left-populist anti-corporate leanings - must be prevented at all costs.

anchored into the very fibre of your political viewpoint.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jun 30th, 2015 at 04:00:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course, they may declare the Bank of Greece insolvent...
Your treaty-fu is better than mine, but I don't remember seeing any clause that prevents an insolvent central bank from continuing to operate, nor makes it legal to eject it from the clearing system.

Or, for that matter, any process by which a central bank can be declared insolvent against its will.

In any case, cutting of a country from the international payments system is about as hostile as a physical blockade or a siege. It's the kind of thing the US attempts to do on Iran, who could have predicted that the Eurozone would do it on an EU member state?
European Tribune, get your news thirty months early.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The ECB has been in a running battle with the Czech central bank for years over the need for the Czech central bank to operate on positive equity, on which the Czechs are entirely correct there is none.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 30th, 2015 at 12:12:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hard to have positive equity when there is a giant suction hose attached to your northern and western boundaries.
by rifek on Wed Jul 1st, 2015 at 02:28:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Europe simply cannot have it both ways. Either human rights really matter, or their behaviour leaves no observer any choice but to believe that money trumps people for them, no ifs or buts.

It's austerity or respecting the dignity of individuals, period.

It is a tragic shame it has come to this, but perhaps the aftermath will be better in some way, (yes my optimistic mood is showing).

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 10:15:40 PM EST
You're absolutely right.  Now try and get that message into a mainstream, Western news outlet.
by rifek on Mon Jun 29th, 2015 at 11:45:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
melo:
Europe simply cannot have it both ways. Either human rights really matter, or

You can stop right there.

Human rights is like the bunting they hang on the platform at political rallies: inessential, and finally pretty cheesy.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jun 30th, 2015 at 04:05:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yup, a garnish of parsley on a dog's dinner.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Jul 1st, 2015 at 05:05:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jun 30th, 2015 at 11:33:51 AM EST
From the Jacobin Magazine: The Restoration of Dignity (6.30.15)
Papandreou argued that a "yes" vote on the terms of the agreed program would soothe the rising tensions in Greek society and create much-needed consensus for the "reforms" that the Greek government had agreed to undertake.

The key eurozone players insisted that the only option on the table was an "in/out" referendum on Greece's membership in the eurozone and the European Union (EU). Faced with a rebellion in his party, Papandreou shelved the referendum plan, conceded defeat, and resigned. The ensuing coalition government ratified the catastrophic agreements, deepening the economic crisis and further diminishing Greece's bargaining power.

so far, so good.
On Sunday it was time for a new prime minister, Alexis Tsipras, to gamble on a referendum. The government's decision has nothing in common with the 2011 moment. Papandreou's referendum proposal was the ultimate blackmail of an entrapped leader, seeking to "gag" the electorate by equating the bailout terms with Greece's membership in the eurozone.
But that's a contradition to the above! Papandreou was not seeking to equate the bailout with Greece's membership. That was the response of the Euro leaders, and Papandreou caved in because he didn't have his party behing him.

So there is more of a parallel between Papandreou's and Tsipras' referendums than the author wants to allow.

In fact, if the Troika had proposed to Varoufakis a "decent" deal but which would be a hard sell with the Syriza hard-left faction, Tsipras might have again called a referendum and asked for a 'yes' vote. And then there might have been a repeat. The problem for the creditors was that, while they appeared to be aiming to "split Syriza" they didn't offer an acceptable deal to the "moderate" Syriza faction. So they overplayed their hand. And when Tsipras recommends a "no" vote, saying the "no" is on the EU and not on the agreement is again an everreaction on the part of the creditors in a way that it wasn't with Papandreou's "yes" recommendation.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 30th, 2015 at 11:52:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I see lots of "VSP" but also lots of people who should know better (often in finance or economics) pretending that Tsipras has messed up the negotiations.

None of them seem to grasp the history - we arrived here because the EU was unable to offer a deal that works (as opposed to one that caused a depression) to previous "more reasonable" Greek governments.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Jul 1st, 2015 at 05:58:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jun 30th, 2015 at 12:10:05 PM EST
There are dissenting voices all over Europe but the narrative of hard-working northerners paying for lazy southerners is still going. Until we can change the narrative I remain skeptical about the possibility for a sensible economic policy on Greece. The northern states can not sell what is perceived as "more money to the lazy Greeks" to their electorates.

An example of what happens when a Belgian MP tries to change the narrative, his mic is turned off:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z084m8m1pt0

by chumchu on Wed Jul 1st, 2015 at 07:04:10 AM EST

((*youtube Z084m8m1pt0)) without the *.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 11th, 2015 at 11:54:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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