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Open Thread 27 - 3 Dec

by Bjinse Mon Nov 27th, 2017 at 09:07:01 PM EST

Don't cry because thread's over, smile because thread happened


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Guardian
It is either taking slow cinema to the next level or is a PR spin too far: a London cinema will next week screen a 66-minute film of a 40-degree wash cycle, complete with score by Michael Nyman.

Washing Machine - The Movie is a single shot of the full wash, rinse and spin cycle of a Samsung QuickDrive.

Cam't he just release the score on the internet, so we can watch our own washing machines instead?
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Tue Nov 28th, 2017 at 02:09:32 PM EST
This sort of acclaim (and there are countless examples, notably commercial sale of logs-burning-in-a-hearth w/ or w/o musical soundtrack) belongs to dada and ready made (cf. Duchamp, Arp) "aesthetic" expressions of west world ennui. I am not much impressed by hindsight art criticism mounting the vanguard on WWI; the M.O. has persisted --through devastation by wars, "conflicts", peace, cyclical credit collapse, sexual liberations, and so forth.

The industrial revolution is the heart of this generational cultural commentary.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Nov 28th, 2017 at 04:36:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The 1920s avant-garde thought they were helping to make a new world.  They didn't know they were only an exhausted interlude between the trenches and concentration camps/gulags.

So it goes.

Now one of their works sell in an explosion of conspicuous consumption* to multi-billionaires in the financial equivalent of whipping-it-out and seeing whose is bigger for more money than the artists earned in their entire life.

Life in late-stage predatory capitalism.

*  See: Veblen, Thorstein and his often cited, never read, Theory of the Leisure Class -- not to be confused with the never cited, never read Theory of the Leisure Class by Nikolai Bukharin, Bolshevik and Class Traitor who admitted to seeking to assassinate Lenin and Stalin from 1918, murder Maxim Gorky by poison, partition the Soviet Union and hand out her territories to Germany, Japan, and Great Britain while being a degenerate fascist working for the restoration of capitalism, we know his confession was true because we have the documents stating he was not to be tortured, only beaten.

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 02:45:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hold on there.
< wipes tears >
If it were not for Chomsky citations, Bukharin would be dead to me.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 03:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Without an interest in the Bolsheviks or the minutia of the early history of Soviet Union there's not much point in reading Bukharin.

Unless wading through page after page of this:

No doubt, if we start with the fact that it is only a class theory of the proletariat that can be objectively correct, a mere revelation of the bourgeois character of any specific theory, is, strictly speaking, sufficient to justify its rejection. At bottom, this is a correct attitude, for Marxism claims its general validity precisely for the reason that it is the theoretical expression of the most advanced class, whose "needs" of knowledge are far more audacious than those of the conservative and therefore narrow-minded mode of thought of the ruling classes in capitalist society. Yet it is quite clear that the correctness of this assumption should be proved precisely in the struggle between the ideologies themselves, and particularly, by a logical criticism of the theories of our opponents. A sociological characterization of a certain theory, therefore, does not relieve us of the responsibility of waging war against it even in the field of a purely logical criticism.

--- 1927 Russian edition of The Economic Theory of the Leisure Class

floats your boat.  

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 09:50:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Looks like someone never really studied the Russian history from the Revolution through Stalin. At least there is no question of true authorship of "Theory of The Leisure Class". At least when Lenin copied, copped, J. A. Hobson's "Imperialism" at least it came out in the same year. But then I haven't read anything by Bukharin, so his version may be highly and independently insightful, though I have my doubts. He was a sufficiently significant figure that Stalin worried about him - and that was always a bad thing for the one being worried about.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Dec 3rd, 2017 at 04:07:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And the above could well do with at least one less 'at least'.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Dec 3rd, 2017 at 04:10:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
some people evidently need more FB friends, they haven't got enough distractions in life

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Nov 28th, 2017 at 07:14:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oddly, enough it wasn't until I emerged from my metaphorical cave to take employment at AMZN that I learned Facebook is a verb. "Sue and I stay in touch. We facebook."

In this way I truly came to appreciate academic theories --anthro and technical-- of "convergence" launched in the mid-90s. Proponents of IPTC (or ITC or ISP and more obscurely "Net Neutrality") predicted multi-modal telecommunication by internet protocol, the one medium. Also McLuhan's (1964) tedious cultural criticism.

techcrunch | Virtual Fireplace - Marvel Superhero
Virtual FireplaceTM - YouTube
Fireplace for Your Home | Netflix

That indicated, I've no reason to believe Facebook will monopolized the many channels of communication available to people who value brand-management more highly than physical warmth and companionship which accompanies exclusive use and ownership of a proverbial fire.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Nov 29th, 2017 at 04:07:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]


She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre
by ATinNM on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 02:47:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
well on the way to that

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Dec 3rd, 2017 at 10:26:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by das monde on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 04:43:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Somehow, it also struck me as a perfect analogy for the Trump administration so far.
by Bjinse on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 09:57:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Let's see ... makes a lot of noise, totally unproductive, dangerous at the end.  But how to explain the Trump supporters?  Retards who go home and repeat this exercise ... again and again ... until their money runs out?  When will people realize that Trump is an agent of Putin, succeeding at destroying the U.S., and needs to be stopped ... unless we all want a full blown civil war.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 06:50:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... perhaps agent of Israel? See Flynn's plea bargain. :-)
by Oui on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 09:57:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Then why is Rachel Maddow making such a BIG DEAL about all of the RUSSIAN asholes meeting with Trump assholes but Israel doesn't get mentioned?

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 03:08:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Oui on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 07:05:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, Rachel is very pro Hilarity but that doesn't change the facts of all the Trump asshole/Putin asshole meetings.

Interesting discovery.  I've been watching a series of documentaries on the Roman Empire on You Tube. I've got Germanic barbarian blood coursing through my veins; my mitochondria are savage power-plants.  When I see the barbarians hacking into the Romans I see the Romans as modern day Republicans and it's very exhilarating.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 10:43:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
cos Israel is an equal oportunity corrupter. Every US Govt since at least Reagan have had the majority or reps on all sides in receipt of funding from Israel via AIPAC.

Being in the pay of Irael isn't a thing in the US, cos the assumption should be that they all are.

I'm not saying it's good or bad, just saying that's that's where you are.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Dec 3rd, 2017 at 10:21:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
People just can't help but want to watch it all... Throwing a rusty piece into a White House on a Hill.
by das monde on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 11:05:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Guardian - David Boyle - What military incompetence can teach us about Brexit

A fascinating article by Simon Kuper has proposed a parallel between Brexit and the strange cargo cults of Melanesia, when societies suddenly destroy their economic underpinnings in search of a golden age, because they perceive the tribe is in some kind of decline.

It is particularly relevant now that corners of the Conservative party appear to be baying for a non-negotiated Brexit. And unfortunately, as the countdown ticks by, that may well be what they get.

There is another parallel, but it comes from psychology not anthropology. It derives from an influential theory by a former military engineer-turned-psychologist, Norman Dixon. His book, On the Psychology of Military Incompetence, was published in 1976, and has been in print ever since. His ideas may draw too much on Freudian concepts for current tastes, but there are worrying parallels to the phenomenon that he identified: the syndrome that seemed to lie behind so many British military disasters.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Nov 30th, 2017 at 02:20:20 PM EST
How's this for an explanation.  This hypothesis comes from my view of humans over the past 60 years.

The wrong people are allowed in "positions of power".  Examples: 1. My parents - next door neighbors; 8th grade dropout, sweatshop worker all his life, always angry about his "lot in life".  His mate ... the ovum producer ... always mildly mentally ill, eventually institutionalized.  Just let ANYONE breed. 2. High school teachers - don't get me started.  I could write a book and to what end? ... most of those assholes are dead, where they belong. May dog-shit cover their graves.  3. Managers in "industry" ... The Quaker Oats Company.  A small mushroom company called SpawnMate.  A large agricultural cooperative called Pacific Coast Producers.  Once again ... I have stories ... what's the point?

In general, they don't thrive.  They just survive.  Who's going to notice? Your entire species is like this ... until you go extinct.  The crime isn't that you're gone ... it's all the unnecessary destruction left in your wake.

They tried to assimilate me. They failed.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Nov 30th, 2017 at 10:48:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The silver lining is: the stage is set for another Iron Maiden classic!

Thin Lizzy had their own take on this disaster:

Iron Maiden recorded a cover of Massacre in 1988, showing how Lizzy and this particular song were so influential to their sound. In the end it is all about disaster.

You might find me At The Edge Of Time.

by Luis de Sousa (luis[dot]a[dot]de[dot]sousa[at]gmail[dot]com) on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 06:45:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
AI Has Already Taken Over, It's Called the Corporation
Thomas Jefferson and other leaders of the United States, aware of the English experience, were deeply suspicious of corporations, giving them limited charters with tightly constrained powers. However, during the turmoil of the Civil War, industrialists took advantage of the disarray, leveraging widespread political corruption to expand their influence. Shortly before his death, Abraham Lincoln lamented what he saw happening with a resounding prophecy: "Corporations have been enthroned ... An era of corruption in high places will follow... until wealth is aggregated in a few hands ... and the Republic is destroyed."

[...] In the early twentieth century, Paul Bernays, a mastermind of corporate empowerment, boldly stated his game plan as "the conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses." He declared ominously that "those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government that is the true ruling power of this country." [...]

[...] the current U.S. cabinet represents the most complete takeover yet of the U.S. government by corporations, with nearly 70% of top administration jobs filled by corporate executives. In the words of Robert Weissman, president of Public Citizen, "In the Trump administration, auto industry lobbyists are setting transportation policy, Boeing has a top perch at the Department of Defense, Wall Street is in control of financial policy and regulatory agencies, and corporate defense lawyers staff the key positions in the Justice Department."

R2D2, where are you?
by das monde on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 10:49:14 AM EST
Elaboration of D/Tao (whole that is M1 Yin,Yang) in Sec. 6 of v.4 is properly constructive (defining one's terms, or analogy, eg. esu elegba) and well-placed for reading Sec. 7 inferences respecting various symbolic expressions (both lexical and performative, eg. divination, marketing, diagnosis) of contingency, or potentiality, in domains of human knowledge of and experience with a universe of unknown and unforeseen quantities. [1]

Which brings me to the essay from which the excerpt above is taken --a wholly dissociative polemic against delegated causality, symbolized by "forces" of law and disembodied corporations.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 06:23:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
corporate takeover of humanity
truly is an incomprehensible statement.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 06:28:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You got it!

Laws themselves are objects of delegation, surely. Corporations rely on certain laws and enforcement.

by das monde on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 11:03:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
4. Lao-tzu said: ...
The Way molds myriad beings but is ever formless. Silent and unmoving, it totally comprehends the undifferentiated unknown. No Vastness is great enought to be outside it, no minuteness is small enough to be inside it. It has no house but gives birth to all the names of the existent and nonexistent.

Real people embody this through open emptiness, even easiness, clear cleanness, flexible yielding, unadulterated purity, and plain simplicity, not getting mixed up in things. Their perfect virtue is the Way of heaven and earth, so they are called real people.

Real people know how to deem the self great and the world small, the esteem self-government and disdain governing others. They do not let things disturb their harmony, they do not let desires derange their feelings. Concealing their names, they hide when the Way is in effect and appear when it is not. The act without contrivance, work without striving, and know without intellectualizing.

The Wen-Tzu, trans. Thomas Cleary

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 03:34:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thirty spokes converge at one nave, but only when there is non-being does the function of the carriage exist; We mould clay in order to fashion a vessel, but only when there is non-being does the function of the vessel exist

This "technical" verse 11 from Tao Te Ching of Lao-tzu is quoted in [6], and another translation in [24, Ch. I] (plus, [17, pg. 119] by the same author). Capra mentions Tao in [13] as well, surely. It's not just following the way, but inviting the way.

by das monde on Mon Dec 4th, 2017 at 07:02:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just a brief note to say that our man Cyrille was featured on the lead story of the main BBC News at 6 last night.

A story about people emigrating in response to brexit.

(I have asked his permission to put this up)

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 12:59:50 PM EST
Is there a link?

You might find me At The Edge Of Time.
by Luis de Sousa (luis[dot]a[dot]de[dot]sousa[at]gmail[dot]com) on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 06:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, sorry. Can't find one. Maybe, when Cyrile emerges from his other news (happy but my lips are sealed), he will provide a youtube, but he's a bit distracted now.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 07:52:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hi
All I have is BBC iPlayer. Not sure it's available outside the UK.
But yes, my daughter pretty much triggered the contractions right during the 10pm broadcast of the short interview.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 08:10:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I couldn't even find it on iPlayer, sorry.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 08:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well I will receive a download link on Monday if that helps.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 09:43:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Much joy to you and your family!
by Bjinse on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 09:59:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by generic on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 04:12:31 PM EST
This was quite a week for the UK and her majesty's government. Capitulating to the EU on all fronts and trashed around by the American administration.

The moment of truth is approaching. Monday Theresa May is supposed to dine again with Jean-Claude Junker (they really appreciate sharing a meal) and declare to the world her government has bent on citizens rights, the financial settlement and the status of Northern Ireland.

Can this government survive these next few days? Not only is the DUP ready to shed some blood, the Tory party seems ready for its own share of carnage.

You might find me At The Edge Of Time.

by Luis de Sousa (luis[dot]a[dot]de[dot]sousa[at]gmail[dot]com) on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 06:53:26 PM EST
Yes, because, as Cat pointed out elsewhere, the DUP have served their purpose and can go whistle. For almost any foreseeable issue, the Govt can rely on opposition votes here and there to get most brexit related business through. And nothing else matters.

Brexit depends on the tensions within the Tory party. That was its genesis and provides the hum and buzz even now. If we have hard brexit, it will be because the mad hatters wing have won : If we have something sensible, it will be because the pragmatic wing have won. However, any victory will come at a price as the losers will extract a price in blood. They will enact their revolution, but I'm not sure they'll survive the terror afterwards

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Dec 1st, 2017 at 07:50:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What's the haps in Deutschland?

(I trust not the English language press)

She believed in nothing; only her skepticism kept her from being an atheist. -- Jean-Paul Sartre

by ATinNM on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 09:59:59 PM EST
Certainly not Brexit. Nobody on the Continent seems to be interested in it any more.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Sat Dec 2nd, 2017 at 10:44:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
this is long and probably errs on the apocalyptic side, but I think it's an interesting viewpoint that I hadn't considered. I too worried the NYT article was problematic, so it's good to see somebody coming at it from another angle.

FB - George Godwyn - These people ARE our Normal

For going on two years now, I have been following several Donald Trump groups, alt right groups, and just general far right reactionary groups. I have seen these groups grow from 500 or a thousand people to 20,000, 30,000, 50,000, and more. One particularly grotesque example is almost half 1 million.

When I joined them, I felt like something was changing, something new was happening, and I wanted to try and understand it. (as well as for an occasional laugh, it would be fruitless for me to deny that now.) Of course, it was fucking appalling. But I kept watching. I knew Trump would win the primary long before most people thought it was a possibility on the basis of what I saw in these groups. I've become familiar with memes and tropes and ideas common in the groups and I think I've gotten a fairly good grip on the culture. I've been pretty accurate in my predictions regarding the Trump and the hard right over this period of time, other than his victory in the general election. Because of these groups.

Since that time, when the subject of Trump, or the alt right, or neo-Nazis in conversation, sometimes I will suggest to my friends, people on the left, that they join a trump group or an alt right group, to see what's going on in them. And I can't remember one time offhand when the person I was talking to thought it was a good idea. (If I'm wrong, if I'm forgetting, feel free to correct me, but I can't remember anyone wanting to.) My memory is that, to a person, anyone I know on the left who has heard the suggestion has expressed feelings somewhere in a range between lack of interest to horror, generally tending towards the latter.

So the other day I wake up to my feed full of people angry about the New York Times profile of the Ohio Nazi, Tony Hovater. I read the piece and it just seems like a profile of a Nazi to me. Completely unsurprising or notable in any way, other than its correlation with my own experience. I thought it was very well done.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Dec 3rd, 2017 at 10:31:20 AM EST
by generic on Mon Dec 4th, 2017 at 05:51:31 PM EST
Fine if this was in Germany, Finland, Russia,  or Israel. But bestiality is illegal in the UK.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Mon Dec 4th, 2017 at 05:56:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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