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Open Thread 14 - 20 August

by Bjinse Mon Aug 14th, 2017 at 07:01:21 PM EST

Threading something is better than remembering something

Facebook - Roz Kaveney - comment

he assumption that hate speech - and such performative hate acts as marching around with flaming torches, swastikas and other paraphenalia of past genocides - can be tolerated in a free society as the price of free speech is, I have realised, a dangerous illusion. The idea that we can tolerate a constant barrage of lies - that we can indeed tolerate the careless use of lies by ourselves - as part of a process of ascertaining something like truth by constant shadings and that we should not pursue the closest possible approximation of truth we can attain is also dangerous.

We cannot tolerate intolerance - which is in some measure a paradox but so be it. We cannot allow hate speech to take over public space. We have to argue back against any ideology whether religious or racial which says that certain groups have nothing to say worth hearing.

We do not have arms - we do not have the national press or national broadcasters - it is likely that we will be silenced. At the very least, we can call out the hypocrisy of those who silence us and call it free speech.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Aug 16th, 2017 at 07:17:55 AM EST
An interesting response by Ian Shuttleworth -

ou make a compelling case for action more direct and substantive than "We have to argue back". Consequently, that conclusion comes out of nowhere and contradicts all that has come before it. Every paragraph preceding that declaration has been spent detailing how argument is insufficient, ineffectual, because its rules are not accepted by those we would be arguing against. For what is the difference between opposition which we know before we begin will be inadequate, and acquiescence?

If we want to do any more than congratulate ourselves about our own scruples - if we want to achieve anything - I suggest that liberalism needs to accept that occasionally, in extremis, inconsistency is a price worth paying when it is necessary to prevent the entire well of public discourse, of civil life, of fundamental human rights from being ineradicably and terminally poisoned. I suggest that we might usefully reconsider the strength of the taboo surrounding the phrase and concept "by any means necessary".

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Aug 16th, 2017 at 07:29:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Southern Poverty Law Center - Ten Ways to Fight Hate: A Community Response Guide

In this article

    1. Act
    2. Join Forces
    3. Support the Victims
    4. Speak Up
    5. Educate Yourself
    6. Create An Alternative
    7. Pressure Leaders
    8. Stay Engaged
    9. Teach Acceptance
    10. Dig Deeper

Hate in America has become commonplace. What can we do to stop the hate?

A presidential candidate wins election after denigrating Muslims, Latinos, women and people with disabilities. A young white man opens fire and kills nine African Americans who welcomed him into Bible study at a church in Charleston, South Carolina, telling his victims, "I have to do it." A Muslim woman is seated on a bench in front of a coffee shop in Washington, D.C., when a woman begins screaming anti-Muslim epithets. A swastika and other anti-Semitic graffiti appear at an elementary school in Stapleton, Colorado. A lone gunman carrying an assault rifle and a handgun storms a well-known gay club in Orlando, Florida, killing 49 people and wounding 53 others.

​Bias is a human condition, and American history is rife with prejudice against groups and individuals because of their race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or other characteristics. As a nation, we've made a lot of progress, but stereotyping and unequal treatment persist.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Aug 16th, 2017 at 07:22:34 AM EST
has always been commonplace.

Europeans don't understand this, because their "hate" has always been "dislocated" geographically and financially.

Until 1M sorta, kinda "white" people migrated to the continent from Syria AND west Africa. Before WWII, immigrants were select "commonwealth" citizens. After WWII, immigrants were select "commonwealth" citizens.

What demographic traits do the "legal" immigrants share? You don't know. You don't give a shit.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Aug 17th, 2017 at 07:17:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
within the contrains of "democratic rules", you people best be rewarding national and EP office holders who represent the "social democracy" agenda you sorta, kinda claim is a "progressive" ideology of governance.

That means, you must have confidence, or tust, that your preferred candidate will exercise a vote to execite a particular agenda. Why do I say this?

Because so little of eurotribe commentary refelcts knowledge of local political objectives which constitute national policy.

So many are accustomed to deduce, rather than induce, federal gov't  (which is a purported fiction) and national gov't legislation, limits of one's own civil discourse AND authority.

This attitude toward the world is pretty fucked up.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Aug 17th, 2017 at 07:38:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Imported and tortured a work force
And never healed the wounds or shook the curse off
Now the grown up Goliath nation
Holding open auditions for the part of David, can you feel it?

Pioneered so many ways to degrade a human being
That it can't be changed to this day
Legacy so ingrained in the way that we think;
We no longer need chains to be slaves
Lord it's a shameful display
The overseers even got raped along the way
Because the children can't escape from the pain
And they're born with poisonous hatred in their veins

Schengen is toast!
by epochepoque on Wed Aug 16th, 2017 at 10:04:41 PM EST
Ibn told (since no one at eurotrib has asked how I spent 7 (seven) years online since I quit y'all) by calculatedRisk.com subscribers, USA libertarian rent-seeking sewer opportunists, hip hop is dead

Happy Black History D229 Y2

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Aug 17th, 2017 at 08:13:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Guardian Letters - Martin London - How neoliberalism left a toxic legacy

Reading your long read on liberalism (The big idea that defines our era), it crossed my mind that Friedrich Hayek must be turning in his grave.

Neoliberalism has demolished Hayek's theory of markets. Markets are not free: they are controlled by a wealthy minority of state-sized corporations. Markets are not efficient: they generate mountains of waste as corporations walk away from every abandoned disaster, expecting someone else to clear up the mess. Markets are not competitive: mergers, acquisitions, takeovers and buyouts reduce competition and choice for the consumer. Multinational corporations and international banks so dominate national governments that criminality is tolerated and, in the case of banks, even accepted as normal.

The 2008 crash showed that only the insiders of the financial services industry know what is going on. When a combination of incompetence and greed wrecked the international economy, taxpayers/consumers had to fund a colossal bailout. If big government hadn't organised a rescue, the neoliberal marketplace would have disappeared up its own rectum. The "market economy" is not an "objective science". Hayek's big idea is fatally flawed.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 22nd, 2017 at 02:37:21 PM EST
I don't know if Hayek would be much better than most of our present neoliberals and conservatives. They deal with the problems of neoliberalism almost entirely by blame shifting, obfuscation and denial. And, of all defenses of one's psyche, denial is the most powerful - except when it fails it so often fails catastrophically.

"It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Aug 22nd, 2017 at 02:54:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Johan Gustafsson was kidnapped in northern Mali in 2011 by Al-Quaida and has recently been freed. Blankspot - an independent in depth journalistic organisation - has interviewed him.

If you know Swedish you can read it here: Johan Gustafsson egna ord om männen som höll honom fången | Blankspot

Something I found interesting is his observations on his kidnappers, who he could study pretty freely after converting to Islam.

  • The leadership was arabic and disgruntled, educated men. Among them a man who claimed that if he had stayed in Libya he would have been a minister today.

  • The suicide bombers were all outsiders, not local recruits. Suicide attacks appears to be partly a way to deal with recruits who are dissatisfied with the not so glamorous life in the desert. There is an interesting bit with a black man from southern Mali who opted out of a suicide mission and as a result got mistreated - worse sleeping accommodations, less food, etc. There is also a bit with another man from West Sahara who was a bit older then the rest and had skills, like cooking and car maintenance as well as the habits of a man who really knows the value of a penny, taking car of cars, doing proper maintenance, cleaning up after himself etc. Obviously, such a man is very valuable in running a guerilla war, but it was not appreciated, because it showed an attachment to the world. Eventually he got sent of on a suicide mission.

  • The local recruits, Tuaregs, mainly joined because of hatred of the Mali government, they knew much of the desert and little of religion. When Al-Quaida took cities they could recruit more, as otherwise they are hard to find for willing recruits. The leadership gave the Tuaregs older guns and kept the Kalashnikovs for other recruits. Probably suspecting that some might drop out and instead join the more secular independence guerillas.

  • There was s visible hierarchy between arabs, tuaregs and black africans. Officially, this wasn't the case but it was visible.

And then something that stuck out but isn't related to the recruits. The prisoners were used to star in various movies, including one were they were dressed up in orange jump suites to make them similar to Guantanamo prisoners. Afterwards Johan Gustafsson objected on the grounds of a) not being american b) being opposed to the Guantanamo prison and c) the prisoners in Guantanamo being tortured and this wasn't the case for these prisoners who were kidnapped but otherwise lived the same poor desert existence as their guardians. This didn't seem to matter for the director of the movie though.
by fjallstrom on Fri Aug 25th, 2017 at 12:51:08 PM EST
This comment is worthy of a diary, if you have the time...

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Fri Aug 25th, 2017 at 02:42:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Azawad's liberation, the Mouvement National pour la Libération
de l'Azawad (MNLA)
, a rebel group formed in October 2011."

Astonishing one goes by motor bike to such a hostile region, with great lack of knowledge.

Even after his elongated vacation in the desert, Gustafsson has no sense of direction what happened to him in Mali and the politics of AQIM, France, Areva, Niger, uranium mines and the effect of NATO's bombing of Libya and the butchering in its aftermath. He has little knowledge of the Tuareqs and the stronge drive for an independent state called Azawad.

Role of Qatar and terror in North Africa (Muslim Brotherhood)
Timbuktu and Sufi Islam
Tuareq, soldiers in service of Muammar Gadaffi

My diaries with key word Timbuktu - here.

Global Warming - distance between America and Europe is steadily increasing.

by Oui on Fri Aug 25th, 2017 at 03:32:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From a recent article.
This article was amended to correct the location of Budapest
Does anybody know where it used to be?
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Tue Aug 29th, 2017 at 07:27:59 AM EST
My guess would be mixing it up with Bucharest, because they sound somewhat similar and are capitals of neighbouring countries.
by fjallstrom on Tue Aug 29th, 2017 at 11:47:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yep, that was it. Fading shades still visible in search engines.

Why an underpass in Berlin is Hollywood's biggest breakout star Roumania - Startpage Web Search

 Romania), culminating in their arrest on the exact same spot, in the tunnel's open-air section,  

Why an underpass in Berlin is Hollywood's biggest breakout star | Film | The Guardian

Hungary), culminating in their arrest on the exact same spot, in the tunnel's open-air section,

(And apparently I am using an archaic spelling of Roumania/Romania.)

by fjallstrom on Tue Aug 29th, 2017 at 11:59:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I just got some Italian customs forms to fill in for a book order from Israel. This made me realize that I should start getting ready for Brexit. Does anybody know any good (non-Amazon) sites for ordering English-language books from the EU? Ireland?
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Tue Aug 29th, 2017 at 08:08:40 AM EST
Book Depository, Amazons other book site?

We use amazon.co.uk from IE, but I guess they'll do something about that before Brexit.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 29th, 2017 at 09:45:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I generally use Amazon.fr, in the "Livres anglais et étrangers" section; easier (no USD/EUR exchange computation) and faster than Amazon.com.

Depending on where you live, Amazon.it also has a "Libre in altre lingue" section.

Outside of the Amazon hydra, you'll find a "Livres anglais et étrangers" section on fnac.com, or, for Belgium, fr.fnac.be (or nl.fnac.be if your Flemish is any good). Another French retailer with "books in English language" section is decitre.fr; also check lalibrairie.com, a network of independent bookshops. Of course, delivery to Italy will cost extra...

by Bernard on Tue Aug 29th, 2017 at 06:32:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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