There are other ways of limiting freedom of expression which are recognized by all and essentially accepted as "reasonable" in western societies: Freedom of expression at work is curbed a lot. In fact modern workplaces are mostly hierarchical dictatorships. This is known, discussed.

One thing that concerns me a lot is informal but pervasive ways of curbing freedom of expression.

Imagine going to a typical religious (probably creationist) group and defending a evolutionist position? You will probably be labeled as a frickin' nut. Of course you could opt not to go there, but if all your friends, if most of your social life is there, is that really an option? Are you going to leave your community just because of that? Most probably you won't. So you will adapt, adapt by not avoid saying that "sacrilege".

Of course one can abstract the reasoning and replace "religious group" by any other group. Let's say "European Tribune". Is is possible to have a healthy discussion on issues like "race", immigration, science? Can one easily defend here that that, say, immigration is "bad"?

[Don't see this has a criticism to ET (probably one of the few places that I know where this issue is less noticeable), this was just an attempt to have an example that is near (as opposed to impute this behavior just to others)]

Obviously, non-conforming points (to any group) will make the system respond back, that is normal. The problem is that, some responses make people be afraid of genuinely speak their hearts out: You might be fired, or be ignored or not "invited to the party" (social pressure is a mighty deterrent).

This has consequences: first, and sometimes very consciously, you avoid speaking from your heart, but you might still think it. So you might have that "strange" idea about X, but you don't utter it but probably practice it (think catholics and condoms/abortions). Another, probably more damning consequence is that you end up training yourself to think only inside the box. Some thoughts are dangerous if uttered by mistake... The limit becomes "hard-wired": there is no need for formal control of freedom, it is inside you.

This is to be seen in many lefty groups where some ideas are cast in stone: race, environment, emigration, ... . These issues are sometimes called "principles" (a word sometimes used for issues that is not to be discussed - dogmas).

Not only there is the whole principle of freedom of expression and the fundamental ability to be spiritually free, but it is probably also a pragmatic issue, e.g., if there had been space for a candid discussion on immigration in some countries in Europe, there would probably have been less space for the emergence of certain far-right parties. But the truth is, that it is very hard to have a non multiculturalist view on the left without being branded by some with some very bad epithets. This is an example among many.

Living in the UK (and I comment on the UK because it is one of the few examples that I do based on my real experience), I sometimes think that the local politeness/friendliness ends up having precisely the same effect: There is a framework where it becomes very difficult to voice your "strange" opinions (voicing disagreement is very difficult to do without being branded "rude").

I am converting a suggestion from metatone on the Monday opening thread to a full diary in order to see if the idea goes forward...

What about a North (West?) England ET meetup?

Suggestions for place: Liverpool and Manchester were given, but I would say anyplace accessible with public transport (preferably train) would be a candidate.

Date: Any suggestions can be placed here. I am traveling from the 6th to the 27th of September, so if possible outside those dates would be appreciated (but feel free to consider that time interval also, as your diarist is normally traveling and probably won't be able to attend anyway) . The sooner the better as the number of hours of sun per day is fading quite rapidly ;)

Everybody is invited (especially people from North Wales, as it is so close ;) )

The political background is simple: Since half a dozen years I have become convinced that we are facing oil scarcity. This year I have the opportunity to return to the US (and Canada) based on my work. And considering that I believe that traveling (especially intercontinental) will become more expensive, I just accepted the temporary work related visits during this Summer in North America.

Here starts the private part...

I am going to Las Vegas (7 days), Toronto (3 days), New England (flexible: PA, to MA, all goes in between - 5 days), Missoula (MT) (15 days), California (SF and LA - 9 days). This is from mid July to mid August...

I would like, among other things, to meet new people (especially of the progressive kind).

In this light would you recommend any places to this "old left" social-democratic European who as a very soft spot for the US in his heart? I know of the places in the touristic guides, I was thinking in something recommended by people who know the local places (and with a liberal bias)...

It can happen anywhere... it can also be avoided.  

"We will find neither national purpose nor personal satisfaction in a mere continuation of economic progress, in an endless amassing of worldly goods. We cannot measure national spirit by the Dow Jones Average, nor national achievement by the Gross National Product. For the Gross National Product includes air pollution, and ambulances to clear our highways from carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and jails for the people who break them. The Gross National Product includes the destruction of the redwoods and the death of Lake Superior. It grows with the production of napalm and missles and nuclear warheads.... It includes... the broadcasting of television programs which glorify violence to sell goods to our children. "And if the Gross National Product includes all this, there is much that it does not comprehend. It does not allow for the health of our families, the quality of their education, or the joy of their play. It is indifferent to the decency of our factories and the safety of our streets alike. It does not include the beauty of our poetry, or the strength of our marriages, the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials... the Gross National Product measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country. It measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile, and it can tell us everything about America -- except whether we are proud to be Americans." - Robert F. Kennedy

Bill Moyers. America at its best.

Anglo health. (from DailyKos)

The "ignorant" people care about these "reactionary" issues.

Can I propose a different view of the world: Family and Security are fundamental values in a sane society. It has been a failure of the left to ignore them.

Security brings about the image of fascistic/stalinistic/authoritarian states. But the bottom line is, the right to access both public and private space without being harassed is a fundamental right: like education or health. Actually it is quite difficult to even exercise the other fundamental rights if streets are not safe. Violence and insecurity also breed in mistrust for "others". And of course, if streets are insecure, more affluent people will be able to buy out security (by self segregating in secure places), making a basic human right only available to a select few. This is not an endorsement of police brutality or anything like that, it is just a simple statement that a more secure and non-violent society should be a "left" priority and we should not be afraid to embrace it. How? That is another (much more complex) topic, I am just making a philosophical stance here: The "left" should embrace the idea that all people should be entitled to a non-violent environment (and "non-violent" could and should, of course, also encompass the right to health/housing without which existence is a violent experience).

Family...

Yes, yes, family used to mean a close group of macho controlled, female submissive, heterosexual based relationships, which, after started could not be abandoned and had to be endured "until death separates us apart". But we can go past that can't we? We are now in a position to redefine family as a voluntary association based on various types love and equality. I am fully aware that things are not perfect but, instead of fighting the notion of family, the discourse could shift in both protecting families and continuously redefining family (and community) in a more democratic way. Family and local community are the most direct places to practice solidarity and community involvement. I would say, that when the left abandoned the concepts of family (for good/comprehensible reasons) towards a more "cosmopolitan" view of human relationships is also helped to shape a cultural environment which favours atomization/mobility and ultimately disconnection from strong, long lasting human relationships which are the fabric of a more emphatic society...

Yep, just Sunday rumblings...