So, so, so doomed. | 55 comments (55 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

He has a point. The EU has become too complex and remote, and a lot of people would prefer the EU of 20 years ago. What happened to the subsidarity principle?

Still, the main problem is the dysfunctional Eurozone project, which due to its faulty design and the intransigence of the ECB means there is no alternative to destructive austerity.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 06:51:43 AM EST

Re: So, so, so doomed. (4.00 / 2)

What happened to the subsidarity principle?

Quite right. All this nonsense about regulating everything. Drug, pesticide and food regulations, for example : they would be best regulated at village council level.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 08:21:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

The principle of subsidarity does not say there should be no regulations. It says things should be regulated on the lowest possible level, not above it, nor below it.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 08:25:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

Then give examples of what you're complaining about.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 08:31:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

Budgetary deficits?

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 08:34:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (4.00 / 4)

Remember when Olli Rehn said that France must close its deficit, and then freaked out when France started hiking taxes? "Oh no, you need to cut the welfare state, not raise taxes!!"

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 08:38:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (4.00 / 4)

Yes, it still keeps me awake some nights.
Although, to be fair, that was not a problem of the EU institutions per se -he clearly violated his mandate. The problem is that you are encouraged to break the law if its in favour of Aust(e)rianism.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 08:42:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (4.00 / 2)

One Swedish example is the case of our wolf population. It's an incredibly bitter, emotional, complex and multifaceted conflict, where the government is trying very hard to achieve a reasonable compromise solution. Every time it seems a workable solution has been achieved, the EU Commission paradrops in and sabotage it.

Another absurd example is the Commission efforts to regulate Swedish school lunches, or ban the sale of Baltic herring, or undermine our gun legislation.

Is this really what the EU should be doing?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 08:37:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 1)

Not to mention, the constant threat of an EU ban on snus...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 08:41:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 1)

And on Saltlakrids...

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 08:47:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

And lakritspipor...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 08:56:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 1)

They should just make the chocolate cigarettes and the liquorice pipes penis-shaped, then everyone would be happy.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 10:05:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 1)

Not to mention casu marzu.

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 02:38:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 1)

Isn't that one of their more sensible ideas?

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 08:57:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

Yes, but it's Starvid we're debating with here...

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 08:58:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

No matter if you think the idea is good or not, it very clearly does not belong on the federal level. If Belgium or Greece wants to ban them on their own, that's fine by me.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 09:00:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

And don't get me started on the idiotic detail regulations in the CAP...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 09:02:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

But the savages are supposed to be grateful, we do our best to civilise them.

_{It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue
- Queen Elizabeth II}

by eurogreen on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 09:15:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (4.00 / 3)

No, the point is that an EU member state banning a product like that constitute a violation of the free movement of goods. Therefore the Federal level needs to arbitrate between the producing country and the rest, and you end with an export ban with the producing country free to decide on continued production and consumption.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 09:58:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

Also, the firm EU ban on snus exports to the entire EU. Where is your "free movement of goods"-talk now?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 09:08:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (4.00 / 5)

The principle of subsidiarity is in mint conditions, it remains so by not being used.

There is, imho, very little of vertical power sharing built into the EU structure, so decision power tends to move upwards as the upper level can over-rule the lower but not the other way around. The council could have been a counter-acting force if it gave the state parliaments a voice, but instead it gives state governments a way to circumvent their own parliaments. See for exampel the data retention directive that was introduced by Swedish soc-dem justice minister Bodström, not implemented in Sweden until the Commission threatened with fines, implemented under "Brussels makes us do it" cries, and now that the Court has struck it down, the Moderate led governemtn is seeking ways to retain it.

Sweden's finest (and perhaps only) collaborative, leftist e-newspaper Synapze.se

by A swedish kind of death on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 09:01:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

No links, but I heard on Tv the other day that the EU dictates how much cinnamon Danish bakers can put in their rolls.

Another strange one... I heard that if you are a proprietor of a shop in Italy and want to close on Sunday, the EU fines you for lowering productivity. If either of those are true, you can see a huge opportunity for making the EU legislation be a bit more sensitive to realities on the ground, and not so carried away by the heady air of Brussels.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 10:15:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (4.00 / 2)

At a rough guess, both of those are false.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 10:30:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (4.00 / 5)

The first one is kind of true. The EU wanted to enforce a limit on certain contaminants found in cheap, low-grade cinnamon, on the grounds that cinnamon rolls using this cheap, low-grade cinnamon are clearly not a seasonal specialty, which was the exemption they had previously enjoyed.

They got a local specialty exemption instead.

And even if they hadn't gotten a local specialty exemption, they could still have substituted in a higher-grade product. And it wasn't even a protectionist racket like the apple standardization attempt a few decades back, because the crap cinnamon is not locally produced and really has no redeeming virtues save for price.

- Jake

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 02:13:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

The EU must be making a lot of money off Trento (a few stores have started opening recently, but most are still closed).

by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 11:05:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

Italy supposedly owes much money in fines, but does anyone actually collect?

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 04:40:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

Fines for not opening on Sunday? They probably don't exist. Do you have any references? And no,

No links, but I heard on Tv the other day

doesn't count.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 05:32:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (4.00 / 3)

If there were fines, they wouldn't be directly EU, but Italian government in application of an EU directive. If there were an EU directive, it would apply to the other member states too.

There's a recurring public debate in France about Sunday opening, yet there is never any mention of an EU rule enforcing it with fines. There is OTOH a long-standing French rule that small food retailers may open on Sunday, but the big super/hypermarkets with salaried personnel may not (with some exceptions).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu May 29th, 2014 at 02:18:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 1)

Interesting... So where does the fine money end up?

Did some goggling and found if anything it's the EU pushing for Sunday closing, so it was probably propaganda I swallowed.
Funny, here it's more the big supermarkets that stay open Sundays and lunchtimes, never the little shops.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu May 29th, 2014 at 05:22:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 1)

Maybe it's a racket of people pretending to collect an EU fine...

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 29th, 2014 at 05:24:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (4.00 / 3)

Since in Germany (and probabl elsewhere) sunday closure is still the law, this can't be true.

by IM on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 03:04:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 0)

The truth? What has it done for us lately...
Truthiness on the other end...

by Bernard (bernard) on Wed May 28th, 2014 at 03:56:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, so, so doomed. (none / 1)

Correct. You need the day for "seelischen Erhebung". As article 139 of the Weimar Costitution says