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entrenched teaching beaurocracies.

  1.  The producers, i.e. the teachers, not the consumers, i.e. the students and their parents, determine the result/outcome.  The customers are not the final arbiter, like they are in other industries (electronics, shoes, food, banking, real estate, etc.)  So you have a perfect socialist model doomed for failure.  

  2. The bureaucrats (teachers in this instance) get paid their salary and have a life-time employment, whether the students learn to read or write.  There is no incentive to produce better product/service, i.e. educated children, because your job or your income does not depend on your work result.

(You can fire a teacher only if the teacher murders or rapes a student.  Another socialist paradise).

  1.  Homeschoolers have higher academic achievements than private school students, who in turn, do much better than socialist school students.  

  2.  
Public schools no place for teachers' kids
In Washington (28 percent), Baltimore (35 percent) and 16 other major cities, the figure is more than 1 in 4. In some cities, nearly half of the children of public school teachers have abandoned public schools
by ilg37c on Thu Oct 13th, 2005 at 08:02:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(You can fire a teacher only if the teacher murders or rapes a student.  Another socialist paradise).

You just can't help it, can you?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Oct 13th, 2005 at 08:44:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
maybe it's a kind of ideological Tourettism?

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...
by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Thu Oct 13th, 2005 at 05:08:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
(1)  I challenge you to provide any evidence where a teacher in a socialist school has been fired, because he/she is incompetent!

(2)  I taught in a state-owned school, deep in the ghetto.  No incompetent teacher was ever fired.  The teachers union was so powerful and the teachers had tenure, that even if the teacher turned on the TV or showed a video every day or let the kids do whatever they want, the teacher still kept the job.

by ilg37c on Tue Oct 18th, 2005 at 12:10:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I taught in the friggin' University of California. Tenures professors generally didn't give a shit about teaching. I agree it is next to impossible get a bad professor fired. But... the junior faculty, hired lecturers and teaching assistants live under the dictatorship of student evaluations, and pressure from the department itself to make the department look good. This means, the only criterion of quality is "did everyone get an A?". The students can actually get rid of the weaker and younger (hence usually more dedicated and idealistic) among their teachers just because they were held to a standard for the first time in their lives.

So, it's screwed up all around, but again, it's not a matter of socialism, it's a matter of pecking order. And young, non-cynical teachers are at the bottom of the pecking order, just below the school dropout.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 18th, 2005 at 04:21:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
  2. The bureaucrats (teachers in this instance) get paid their salary and have a life-time employment, whether the students learn to read or write.  There is no incentive to produce better product/service, i.e. educated children, because your job or your income does not depend on your work result.

(You can fire a teacher only if the teacher murders or rapes a student.  Another socialist paradise).

You see, in settings where the teacher can be fired for student discontent or poor results, nobody other than the teacher cares whether the students actually learn something, only the grades (from the students' point of view) and the standarized test results (from the school's/parents' point of view). So the quality of education steadily deteriorates and teachers steadily become more cynical. A teacher trying to hold his/her students to standards (even fair standards taking into account the course content and allowing for the prerequisites that many students don't have) is asking for a world of trouble.

By the way, private schools do well because they are able to throw out or refuse admission to students with academic or discipline problems. The "socialist schools" are forced to work with every student. So the student pools are not comparable at all, not even after correcting for income differences.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 13th, 2005 at 08:57:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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