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I don't have time to respond right now to the meat of that comment, but this is ridiculous:
And while you ask did we miss you criticisms of Blair (which I did), I didn't see your response to the underclass in France (Muslim and Africans, etc, etc.).  

I guess you're new here. Read the archives. There aren't many European leaders that are popular around here. And there is a thread specifically about immigrants in France from some time ago. Two possibly.

I'm also going to do the round up of social mobilty and wealth disparity statistics in the same way I did unemployment, but it will take some time - like a week or two.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Oct 12th, 2005 at 04:53:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, excuuuu....se,,, me!!  for not being a 2 year veteran of the site, and missing the criticism of European leaders on this point of poverty.  It ceertainly has not been a recent topic, that I have seen anyway.

But as I'm sure you noticed, clever person that you are Coleman, my main point was "But, you saying the objective of the American system is to produce an underclass is just BS."  Perhaps you could defend that, in the context I laid out, as the intention of Americans or their policies is to produce an underclass (please refer to original post), without resorting to archives.  

by wchurchill on Wed Oct 12th, 2005 at 05:12:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
don't have time to respond right now to the meat of that comment,

See that bit? Means I don't have time right now. I will do.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Oct 12th, 2005 at 06:27:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by wchurchill on Wed Oct 12th, 2005 at 07:22:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, excuuuu....se,,, me!!  for not being a 2 year veteran of the site, and missing the criticism of European leaders on this point of poverty.

The site doesn't exist for half a year, idiot. You could have checked just about any thread on domestic or EU issues for criticism of EU leaders. Recent threads touching on European poverty include the one on the EU Commission's hilarious call for a decrease of wages to increase GDP growth, and threads on Poland or Hungary.

And yes, the American economic system has the production and maintainance of an underclass as a central part, always had. Be them slaves or 'illegal' immigrants, hired harvesters or members of the new service class.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Oct 12th, 2005 at 06:48:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by wchurchill on Wed Oct 12th, 2005 at 07:21:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
intention of Americans or their policies is to produce an underclass

No, intention would mean that the poverty was the deliberate goal.  The goal is wealth.  The policies that are enacted to produce wealth inevitably  produce poverty.  The poverty is more than a mere side-effect, it is beneficial to their goal.  These policies are enacted and sold to the public without mentioning the poverty creation aspect.  So, pushing a system that creates a symbiotic relationship between poverty and wealth and ignoring or denying the poverty outcome is perhaps not the intention or sole intention, but it is very close to fitting the accusation.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 12th, 2005 at 02:05:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
so you're thinking of mass poverty as a kind of unintended consequence, an "externality" like others so glibly dismissed by the creaky C19 economics still dominating the dominant culture?

I'm not sure the relationship is that innocent.  but I have to marshall my thoughts after wading through the rest of this epic and excellent thread.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Thu Oct 13th, 2005 at 05:11:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, I'm not sure the situation is that innocent, either.  I was just giving the benefit of the doubt that the goal is wealth.  And this sort of wealth can only exist in a symbiotic relationship with poverty, thus it creates it.  Is it merely a by-product or side-effect?  I think in some cases and also that the majority of people pushing the policies only look at the wealth side of the equation and are being willfully blind to the poverty side.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 13th, 2005 at 07:06:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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