no. i do not misread you. we all know what "peace at any price" means to the old white boys who have first been terrorists themselves under the british occupation and then either continued their careers in the military or in politics. these old boys will not learn anything new, they should be sent into retirement, or, in the case of 'special' people - incorregible war criminals - like sharon, mofaz and some others, given the 'milosevic treatment' and sent off to a jail somewhere in the hague. (and i dont confuse this with what nato did to yugoslavia, what was a crime no less than the iraq invasion).

gush shalom and the refuseniks are more than comendable - IMO they deserved the nobel for peace rather than IAEA - but they are a minority in a country with a bad case of criminal leadership and deluded masses. to suggest that either movement is representative of public opinion would be wishful thinking at best. the current govt of sharons likud, as extremist as it may appear to us, or even the settler movement, are far more representative of public opinion in israel than either gush shalom or seruv.

also, i stand by my other formulation: in israel, everybody goes to the military for 3 (girls 2) years, so it is not like anybody over the age of 18 can reasonably deny knowledge of the atrocities in the territories. let that sink in: we are speaking here of a nation of 5-6 million where everybody knows or has heared of crimes against humanity being perpetrated by their nation against defenseless people, where everybody takes part and where everybody save a small minority chose to applaud, justify, or at least ignore these crimes and return to business as usual after helping to commit them. there you have 5 million people who know but dont care, who could have done or said something but chose not to, whose leaders actually state that their moral categories are so different from ours that we would never understand them and should thus refrain from criticizing their acts. this is a stark contrast to the 3rd reich, where many, many people not directly involved in the war effort could reasonably deny knowledge of the atrocities being perpetrated by their government.

since we are trying to repair the world, i'll state that my favorite solution for the israel/palestine problem would be the one nation model, where everybody gets the same rights under the law and where all palestinians are given full citizenship, where religious kooks are relegated to the status of curiosities, where reparations are paid to all palestinians, where the palestinian diaspora is given the right to return plus ample opportunities at least unto the 4th generation, where nakhba-denial and zionism prohibition laws are passed modeled after the current holocaust denial and NS prohibition laws here in germany and austria. the place should be occupied by the international community and all weapons in excess of what is needed for reasonable self-defense should be destroyed (that would include their nukes and chem and bio stuff) until the situation has stabilized enough to be confident that both sides will not start killing each other again. i see the israeli political class as essentially irresponsible and incapable or unwilling of managing their country in a constructive way without causing problems, this is straightforward.

i am realist enough to understand that most of this is politically impossible, but it is important that the troubles cease once and for all, and in terms and conditions very different from the "peace at any price (to them)" favored by the politicasters in power. the public discussion has until now been too influenced by people who should have no say in it because they are part of the problem. the first step towards a livable solution to the current troubles in palestine should take the form of a healthy discussion without taboos, just this time without those unwilling to concede to a just and equitable peace.

ok, i suppose that will put me at risk of being extradited to israel for 'hateful statements', or, god forbid, pissing off jerome or bernhard.

let the flamewars ensue !