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I am very proud of the French kids actions, too. It shows that they cannot be subjugated into accepting a subaltern role in society. On the contrary: they reject any attempt to create a victims' culture and violently rebuff the idea that they could ever become modern servants and slaves to the high and mighty. The French socialisation actually works to perfection. The kids know from school that revolts have played a vital part in the shaping of France and act accordingly.

I frankly prefer to see French kids torching several  thousand cars in their cities to achieve a more just society for all, than American and British kids being sent torching people in foreign lands for the benefit of a few.

Let's face it: When the US kids will eventually be back from Iraq we'll see them doing much worse things than occasionally blowing up a car or two in their neighborhoods. McVeigh anybody?

The shocking truth is - the American right wing gun nuts and survivalist 2nd amendment crowd envy the cold blooded and daring resolve of the French kids, because they know that they will never have the balls to do the same in the US.

"The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

by Ritter on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 02:35:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Would you be proud too if these French kids were torching your car? The car you were using to drive to your job to earn enough money to feed your family? The car you bought on a loan, maybe? Assuming you´re poor?

Just asking....

I mean, I suppose that at least some of the thousands of cars now torched weren´t in some rich quarter, right? In fact most of the cars torched weren´t parking in some rich quarter anyway?
We might at least assume that some of the torched cars were the only means of transportation for some poor people trying to get to their job?

Look, I´m trying to be polite here.
But just trying to wave aside the loss of property for some - probably not so well of - people here seems kind of callous.

If you want to further the cause of "a more just society" then why don´t you volunteer your car? Or the school of your kids? Or the kindergarten close to you?

Just asking?

I simply can´t understand your "cheering".
For the simple fact that these "kids" are hurting other poor people in their neighbourhood - either by destroying their cars or by destroying the nurseries and schools in their neighbourhoods. The same nurseries and schools trying to educate the immigrant children.

Not to mention the fact that the problems in France are totally unrelated to Iraq. France opposed the Iraq war and still the riots happened so I suggest you forget to try and relate them to Iraq.

We do have a serious problem in Europe.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 05:43:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A couple of things first:

I 'volonteered' my Chevy Costum Deluxe pickup truck I had driven from Virginia down to Nicaragua to  Miskito fishermen of a small community on the Atlantic coast.

Sergio a good friend of mine, a metal worker who lives in an small occupied farmhouse (casa cantoniere) near Viterbo, once did exactly what you said: During violent clashes with the 'celere' (riot police) he went back to his parked car and quickly drove it beetween the police forces and his comrades and torched it. He was later arrested for that and did some time in Viterbo prison.

The last car I drove (a Golf) I gave to an Albanian gipsy who had asked me for it amidst the Brussels traffick. He actually offered me 200 euros for it. I didn't take it. Since that time I am without car.

And yes, I have more respect for the French kids than for the troops. They do their thing, the troops do the others' thing.


"The USA appears destined by fate to plague America with misery in the name of liberty." Simon Bolivar, Caracas, 1819

by Ritter on Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 07:05:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
.. just I do.

No problem with that. I also hate cars by the way. But I am polite guy and I do not nothing.

I am not cheering, I am saying that I am happy.

I do not know how fair the violence is, no idea. Maybe their violence is absolutely unfair, directed to cars of poor people in the neighboorhood.

Maybe the schools are high quality schools where a lot of people are coming out of misery.

But maybe not, may be they target only rich cars, or so disgusting and malfunctioning schools that this is for the better.

I have no idea, no idea. This is why I do not cheer. Nevertheless I think that very strong changes only comes from local and sporadic violent acts.

Murdering is disgusting and accomplishes nothing. Being inside the system can produce incremental improvement if you are lucky. The best way to produce a very important change is controlled and smart violence outside the system. The civil rights movement in the US shows that, among others (Frenc revolution anybody?).

I do hope that they are targetting the appropriate cars and schools, then I would be happy and I will understand them deeply (not even cheering, I can not cheer any violence). Just as I would understand the nepalese if they would attach chinese cars, or the palestinianas if they would burn israelis cars in the terrotories.

This whay I am happy, they look for violence, but they do not try to kill anybody. They want a face to face violence fight, but without killing. So let me be happy for the moment. As soon as their tactics change I would change too.

A pleasure.

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 03:25:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don´t like any street violence. :)

IF they did target only the cars of rich people or only "disgusting and malfunctioning schools", I might understand it. Not cheer it but understand it in a way.

BUT I doubt that a lot of rich people are living close to them. So I have to assume that some of the cars and schools they were torching belong to not so well off people too.

A German newspaper today on Wednesday mentioned a hospital and nurseries damaged by the riots last night in a French town. Only damaged not destroyed you understand.
Don´t know if they´re right, but hospitals and nurseries don´t seem to be targets anyone should cheer about?

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 04:24:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You really never know, in my neighborhood the nursery system was disgusting. You could compare it with the service in other areas and.. well  I could see..well, it does not matter. My point is that unless you are on the ground, there is no way to know what is going on.

At least this is my point of view.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Wed Nov 9th, 2005 at 05:09:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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