Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
Display:
Huh, I am somewhat surprised to see Russia be considered European though now thinking of it, I recall in my language course someone saying that Russia was "in Asia", and you should have seen the color red our Russian student's face turned!! She definitely considered herself European and was not happy to be considered otherwise. I just wonder if the typical Russian would think this, since Russia spans the European and Asian continent).

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Tue Jul 5th, 2005 at 03:59:41 AM EST
When I was at school I was taught that half of Russia was in Europe and half was in Asia.

Money is a sign of Poverty - Culture Saying
by RogueTrooper on Tue Jul 5th, 2005 at 05:18:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, Russia is certainly European enough to be in the CoE (although they probably shouldn't for human rights reasons alone), the UEFA and the like, but I'd say they will never be part of the EU, or not for a very long time anyway. They really don't understand what it entails and they would not tolerate the sharing of sovereignty it entails

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 5th, 2005 at 05:22:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have always thought that Russia would be the European Union's natural eastern border. I can see Turkey joining the European Union ( many of the improvements in Turkey's human rights' record has been because of the possibility of ascension ).

Money is a sign of Poverty - Culture Saying
by RogueTrooper on Tue Jul 5th, 2005 at 05:33:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I certqinly see Turkey joining before Russia, although Turkey will not be a piece of cake. At least they know the general direction, they are making real efforts to go there (with occasional lapses), and Europe seems willing to consider it (if not all its population).

I did a fairly detailed post about the pros and cons of Turkey in Europe and I will post it once I get back home where I can find it.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 5th, 2005 at 01:49:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As you have read in my bio on Plutonium Page's roll call, I got my BA in Russian and Eastern European Studies from U. Michigan, spent 3 semesters at the Moscow Institute of Social and Political Studies my junior year...and was married to one for eight years.

Here's my explanation.  That doesn't surprise me, Russians are nationalists but they are also so diverse.  Geographically, many explain that everything east of the Urals is Asia and everthing West is Europe.  That's also problematic demographically.  My ex-wife's father was half Bashkir/half Tartar and her mother was Russian.  Created family problems on the Muslim side.  Russians would (including mother-in-law) would call the Vostochniie (Easterners).  Russians will also tell you that after 240 years of Mongol rule, there is no longer any Russians with pure slavic blood.  I believe this may be on explanation foe the "Russian Soul" as it gives a unifying factor in the culture not based on blood lines.  There are also strong neo-nationalistic feelings there now that tend to favor the perception of the "civilised" Europe over the "backward" east.

Symbolically, this is why the Russian Imperial Eagle had two heads, one looking west and one looking east.

One anecdote.  My ex and I were having drinks with some Germans back in the US.  One girl mention atrocities of German women who were raped by the Red Army.  My wife exclamed "Ne nada tooda leyzit" in a menancing tone (meaning something roughly like "you shouldn't slimed/crawled there in the first place").  There was a look of uncomfortable suprise at my ex blurting out in Russian.  I thought, oh shit, we're going to have an international incident, they're still fucking fighting WWII.  After an uncomfortable, I changed the subject.

The ex's grandfather's were in the Red Army, one as a doctor from Stalingrad to Berlin, was on the Ausschwitz liberation medical team, and survived the War.  The other, the Tartar, didn't survive Berlin.

Hope that's insightful.

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"

by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 07:02:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:

Occasional Series