Welcome to European Tribune. It's gone a bit quiet around here these days, but it's still going.
The countries that I find most fascinating in that list are:

  • Armenia is the only one of the 3 caucasian countries to have chosen a European international telephone code. Of course, they will probably have joined Europe because their whole population will have come here before the actual territory belongs to the union (the country is emptying itself currently);

  • Israel has an Asian telephone code, but belongs to UEFA and Eurovision. They also look like Europeans which, as seen in other comments, is a not unsignificant element for acceptance. I don't see them entering the EU or any intermediate structure without Palestine doing so at the same time, but I actually see that happening in my lifetime

  • Morocco is not on the list, but has already participated to the Eurovision contest (actually, the requirement is to be a member of the European Television Union, which includes most of North Africa, Syria and Lebanon). I also see them, and other Mediterranean countries, as being logical future members for an extended democratic union - also a lifetime span project.

My only question is - how fast? I see Morocco coming in before Ukraine. What do you think?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 5th, 2005 at 01:59:53 PM EST
It seems to me Ukraine will join long before Morocco. First, only the former is actually in Europe. Second, few EU countries would welcome the mass Moroccan immigration you would in all likelihood see. Third, Morocco is a dirt poor third world countries where much of the rural pop lives in medieval conditions (I've been there twice and can attest to this). Fourth, it is a brutal police state and a quasi-absolutist monarchy. The largest and only well-organized political party, which is formally cut off from power, is Islamist; this is probably much more democratically minded than the King. Fifth, there's the little trifle of occypying Western Sahara.

A better question might be whether Norway will join before Ukraine...

The world's northernmost desert wind.

by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Tue Jul 5th, 2005 at 02:42:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you Kinding, Norway will never join this group of looser, Europe is not Europe anymore, is sinking faster and faster.

we had a begining of common identity, recent enlargement damaged it, and Turkey kills it for sure.

end of the game, the population will turn away of this stupidity, only the useless Conseil de l' " europe " will stay.

how long it will take for our politicians to understand that europe is dead for the people ?, it was an stuff from the past, we must build something else more coherent more ambitious but EUROPEAN, something like we had in 1992. sniff

by fredouil (fredouil@gmailgmailgmail.com) on Tue Jul 5th, 2005 at 08:35:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The one question that has been growing in my mind in the era after the French non! and Dutch nee! for the European 'Constituion' is this: how much alive was Europe "for the people" early on, during the seventies and eighties?

Was it any different, or do we see a growing awareness of Europe, albeit a negative one? I don't know.

by Nomad on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 09:57:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My hopes are set for Ukraine, though. Although there was a critical post some time ago about Norway, as long as they can keep up their posture of "worlds" perfect country" and keep on staying one of Europe's biggest oil producers, I don't see why Norway would start considering to request entrance.

I see it like this. Entrance into the EU for Ukraine would greatly benefit the country and its people and bring greater wealth to it, like it did for Spain, Portugal, Greece. Entrance into the EU for Norway would bring mucho troubles and very few profits to counter-balance them.

by Nomad on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 09:53:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
there was a critical post some time ago about Norway

Would that be this by your sincerely? It was meant as satire...

I'm Norwegian myself and favor EU membership, chiefly because FAAPP (for almost all practical purposes) we are already members through the European Economic Area, but with no influence on the torrent of directives we have to implement. However, you're right that economically speaking it is probably better to stay outside. There are also the matters of sovereignty over the fisheries - perceived as important, since the EU countries have drained their seas - and the right to pursue an independent agricultural policy promoting small-scale farming in the interest of distributed settlement. These are the chief reasons why there is still no stable 'yes' majority.

The world's northernmost desert wind.

by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 10:37:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's the one... Was that satire? Oh dear. Look, I'll read it again. Replying on this board is still rather new to me, I'm sure I'll slip more often. Didn't mean offense. Oslo is still one of the highest rated cities (of the world) to live in. I wonder how they come up with that list, though.

All good points - especially the agricultural policy and fisheries seem particularly important to me. We're in interesting times with EU now; I hope Euro Trib keeps a steady focus on the agricultural policy of the EU. I'm all for change, and it could happen in the coming period. Anyway, drifting off-topic.

by Nomad on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 06:44:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's pretty interesting with regard to Morocco.

I'm always fascinated by American categories for race or ethnicity. There are only a few official categories, but I've always considered it odd that a Moroccan or Northern African is considered among the majority in the US. Racially, Moroccans are considered white. Now, if you're from Spain on the other hand, you are considered a minority non-white in the US. It's a truly bizarre methodology. No one has explained it to me yet.

by Upstate NY on Tue Jul 5th, 2005 at 10:36:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's borderline bizarre. Does the classification extend to affirmative action in colleges, et cetera?

The world's northernmost desert wind.
by Sirocco (sirocco2005ATgmail.com) on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 10:40:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is no affirmative action in American colleges.

It's illegal in most respects. Quotas are as well.

Of course, you can signal your nationality on your application, and the university may take that into account, but it's a hidden process, and it's up to each university. Furthermore, a university does not have to use the official US government classifications.

It may decide to break down Latino and Hispanic students into a non-European ancestral category. I don't think there is a designation for Arabs at most universities.

by Upstate NY on Wed Jul 6th, 2005 at 10:57:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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