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EuroPDB: August 11, 2005 | 22 comments (22 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
FT (4.00 / 2)
Hi Soj, I see that you seem to be making increasing use of the Financial Times in your PDB... Good! Did I contaminate you or did I just not notice it before?

Now you need to use Le Monde a little bit more... They have a big story about the worsening civil war in Nepal

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 05:30:20 AM EST
Re: FT (none / 1)
Le Monde is an excellent French newspaper.

Libération is another.

Just sayin'

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 08:54:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: FT (none / 0)
A combination of both actually.  I noted that you were referencing the FT probably before I started reading it myself.  But I will tell you (and everyone else) that the FT is the single best news source in the English language.  Even better than the BBC.  If you read just one newspaper daily in English, read the FT.

You're right about Le Monde, I do need to read it more.  However on Nepal, I didn't include any links to it in today's PDB because it actually isn't getting any worse.

It's a hellhole and a nation imploding into "failure" status but there's nothing new about this week.  Instead all the articles are about the "horror" that some captured royal soldiers were executed.  I find this to be hypocritical crap, because soldiers executed is hardly one whit different than killed in battle.  Why is it "ok" to kill them in a shootout but "bad" to execute them?  They're sworn enemies in a war!

Despite all that chatter, especially from the US, the three countries (US, UK and India) continue to dump weapons and helicopters and everything else into the country because they're paranoid the Maoists are going to win.  I should say "rightly paranoid" because sooner or later, they will win.  

In the meantime however, it's the innocents who will suffer the most, as they do in all wars...

Pax

Night and day you can find me Flogging the Simian

by soj on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 09:37:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: FT (none / 0)
Yes. The FT is definitely worth paying for. And they have proper RSS feeds for everything.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 09:46:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: FT (none / 0)
Actually, in a shootout they have a chance of shooting on target first and survive, or wave a white flag, a captive to be executed has no such chance. A rather similar argument as that against area weapons. Soj, I think this was a rather bad argument from you, it kind of sounds as freeper excuses for Gitmo. (Maybe pointing out that government forces aren't better would have been better.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 09:47:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: FT (none / 0)
It's completely different than Gitmo, the Taliban, Al-Qaeda and everything along those lines.

To begin with, the Maoists are Nepalese and their enemy is the royal Army, also Nepalese.  It is a civil war between combatants.  It is an open and declared war between people who carry insignia and weapons openly.  They are declared combatants - completely different than the Taliban, who never asked for an invasion and never declared war on the United States or any other country.

Now, there are "rules" of warfare, even civil warfare, which are supposed to be enforced.  One is that you don't execute POWs.  You can spend 24 hours non-stop shelling your enemies, lobbing grenades into their bunkers, firing off millions of rounds of bullets at them and kill all their buddies but then when they wave the white flag suddenly you've got to shake their hand and say howdy and don't mistreat them.

These are the "rules" of warfare, which in my mind are utterly ridiculous and without merit.  Not because I am anti-humanitarian but because I find all warfare barbaric and disgusting.  I frankly don't see any difference between blindfolding a POW and blasting his brain out than lobbing a grenade into his trench and blowing him into bits.  They are both equally horrible.

Frankly that's what the Geneva Conventions were designed to do, to make war more "humanitarian".  The first protocol was "don't shoot at those tending to or removing injured soldiers from the battlefield".  Utterly ridiculous.  You're supposed to let injured soldiers receive medical treatment so they can come back and shoot you dead just to be "fair and square"?

Let's quit pretending war is some noble exercise and instead reveal it for the disgusting barbarity it really is, where the majority of the victims are always innocent civilians, including non-combatant women and children and the elderly.  This quibbling over what and what does not constitute "fair" warfare helps to cover up the disgusting atrocity it really is.

Pax

Night and day you can find me Flogging the Simian

by soj on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 10:23:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: FT (none / 0)
The Gitmo comparison was not regarding the type of war, but the flouting of the Geneva Conventions (and I don't care about the US attempts at legal hairslitting in support of the hilarious term 'unlawful combattants'). But you attack those too:

Frankly that's what the Geneva Conventions were designed to do, to make war more "humanitarian".  The first protocol was "don't shoot at those tending to or removing injured soldiers from the battlefield".  Utterly ridiculous.  You're supposed to let injured soldiers receive medical treatment so they can come back and shoot you dead just to be "fair and square"?

No, you're supposed to not let the wounded soldier lie there in pains untended by preventing treatment. Your whole rant sounds "the worse the better" to me.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 10:35:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: FT (none / 0)
Your whole rant sounds "the worse the better" to me.

I frankly don't see how much worse war could get :(  It is an abomination.

Pax

Night and day you can find me Flogging the Simian

by soj on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 01:35:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Geneva Conventions (none / 0)
Well, it may not appear as much of a difference to you, but it is for those soldiers, I assure you. On the battlefield, you still can have a sense of having some control over your fate, or at least hope you're lucky, no such thing in front of a firing squad. As for civilians, it's not like killing them is alright by the Geneva Conventions - in fact, the massive rise of the ratio of civilian casualties in wars since WWI (mostly in aerial bombing) was due to a routine violation of the Geneva Conventions.

You seem to be influenced by military types who want to make everything not breaking the Geneva Conventions viewed as okay and 'humanitarian'. But if so, that's them, we shouldn't form our moral system as a negation of their rhetoric. That is like rejecting calls for a US pullout from Iraq because terrorists demand the same.

To reject the Geneva Conventions because they don't curtail all the evil of war is IMO a bad kind of purism - to lessen suffering is a worthy goal already in my mind (and might be the only realistic goal).

Now this is the moral argument, but here is an utilitarian one, too. If there are laws of war, and there is an instance to prosecute its violations, they might have a preventive effect: those who would start a war but think to win they would need (or don't think they could avoid) to break the rules, would be deterred.

And indeed, look how the US neocons fight against the ICC. If we would throw the Geneva Conventions out of the window as you desire, wars would become even more commonplace and even more horrible (more quantitatively than qualitatively).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Aug 12th, 2005 at 03:17:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nepal (none / 0)
I remember reading about the coup, and the strange nature of the politics ther with royalty and maoists and other complications I cannot remember.

I just got a reminder from Le Monde, as they wrote about it, but it's very possible that it's not actually getting worse. It's pretty bad, and it's in a snesible area between great powers...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 10:07:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
New user number 750 (none / 1)
is from Uruguay but is named: BalkanIdentity.

Welcome.  And congrats on the site reaching 750 registered users.

by BooMan on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 06:02:11 AM EST
**** Fired For Organizing Coup Against Neo-Cons? (none / 0)
.
BooMan | SusaHu | Soj :: Any Credibility? See my earlier post

Four Star General Fired For Organizing Coup Against Neo-Cons?

Reporter suggests Byrnes discovered plan to turn nuke exercise into staged terror attack
PrisonPlanet by Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones | August 10 2005

The head of Fort Monroe's Training and Doctrine Command, four star general Kevin P. Byrnes, was fired Tuesday apparently for sexual misconduct according to official sources.

Other sources however have offered a different explanation for Byrnes' dismissal which ties in with the Bush administration's unpopular plan to attack Iran and the staged nuclear attack in the US which would provide the pretext to do so.

According to reporter Greg Szymanski, anonymous military sources said that Byrnes was the leader of a faction that was preparing to instigate a coup against the neo-con hawks in an attempt to prevent further global conflict.

Indications are that, much like popular opinion amongst the general public, half the military oppose the neo-con's agenda and half support it.

~~~

Hasbara is a dead language

by Oui (Oui) on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 09:25:37 AM EST
Re: **** Fired For Organizing Coup Against Neo-Con (none / 1)
Oui I'd have to look into this a little more before I could tell you anything that the mainstream media isn't already telling you.

I will tell you however that during FDR's presidency there was an actual coup plan organized and was well-planned although a lot of people don't know that.  Of course it was never implemented but people were thinking about it enough to actually draw up the plans.

Pax

Night and day you can find me Flogging the Simian

by soj on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 09:40:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: **** Fired For Organizing Coup Against Neo-Con (none / 0)
Wow... never heard of that. Who was in it? Who wasn't?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 09:41:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: **** Fired For Organizing Coup Against Neo-Con (none / 1)
See this link as well as the testimony by General Butler before the McCormack-Dickstein Committee.

Pax

Night and day you can find me Flogging the Simian

by soj on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 10:25:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Always grear to read again... (none / 1)
"The Origins of the Military Coup of 2012" (.pfd)
by jandsm on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 09:48:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now without typo... (none / 0)
...and a functioning link:

[link]

by jandsm on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 09:50:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Allegation of an affair cost 4 star general his jo (none / 0)
.
Attorney: Affair cost Byrnes his job as TRADOC commander


Maj. Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes, shown speaking at the Association of the U.S. Army's annual meeting in Washington DC, last October.

Army Times Aug. 11, 2005 -- A lawyer representing a four-star general has issued a statement aiming to quell rumors surrounding allegations that caused him to be relieved of command. Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes, commanding general of the Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC) was fired Monday on allegations of an extramarital affair.

"The allegation against Gen. Byrnes involves a consensual, adult relationship with a woman who is not in the military, nor is a civilian employee of the military or the federal government," according to an e-mail statement from Byrnes's attorney, Lt. Col. David H. Robertson. "Gen. Byrnes has agreed to the release of this information," said Robertson, an attorney in the Army's Trial Defense Service.

A statement published on the Army's official Web site Aug. 9 stated that "the investigation upon which this relief is based is undergoing further review to determine the appropriate final disposition of this matter." The relief of Byrnes was directed by Army Chief of Staff, Gen. Peter J. Schoomaker.

"Gen. Byrnes and his wife separated in May 2004. They remained separated until their divorce became final on 8 Aug 2005," Robertson wrote to Army Times, without indicating whether or not the couple had maintained separate residences after their separation. The Pentagon confirmed that the investigation was conducted by the Defense Department Inspector General's office and handed down to the Army IG.

As my dear grandma in her wisdom would say: "Oui, believing is for in the church".

~~~

Hasbara is a dead language

by Oui (Oui) on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 02:23:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
SKULL & BONES - David .. Robertson Attorney? (none / 0)
.
Please read my additional comment:
SKULL & BONES - David Robertson, Lawyer?
.
This can't be true - the attorney for 4 star Maj. Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes is David H. Robertson. Is he the son of ..... ?

Need to bet on membership of Skull & Bones and fraternity? Can someone find out, please.

A lengthy comment ...

Posted in soj's diary @ Daily Kos

  • Attempted Coup Against the President of the USA

    ~~~

    Hasbara is a dead language

    • by Oui (Oui) on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 06:20:24 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Re: Fired For Organizing Coup Against Neo-Con (none / 0)
    Speculation exists that he had potentially discovered the fact that it was gonna go live and that he was trying to put a stop to it or also speculation indicates that he may be part of a military coup designed to prevent the ridiculous idea of doing a nuclear war with Iran, " said Lehrman.

    Sounds like a pretty solid case they have there. Speculation, indications and anonymous sources.
    by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 09:50:01 AM EST
    [ Parent ]
    How about a slightly more likely theory? (none / 0)
    He was in charge of training. He apparently has a good reputation as a professional soldier. Maybe he had started getting stroppy about the fuck-up that the US Army is being turned into by repeated tours of duty in Iraq and reduced recruitment and recruitment standards? Dissent is quite sufficient to get you fired in the US Army. You don't need to run a coup.

    I'm not entirely sure this is relevant to the Euro PDB, but whatever.

    by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 09:53:43 AM EST
    [ Parent ]
    A military coup looks very plausible (none / 0)
    in the movie "Seven Days in May" directed by John Frankenheimer.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058576/

    To thine ownself be true. W.S. CANADA

    by sybil on Thu Aug 11th, 2005 at 10:20:51 AM EST

    EuroPDB: August 11, 2005 | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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