Is it Time for the US to Wake Up to the European Dream? | 37 comments (37 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Military vs Economic strength (4.00 / 5)

Europe has no military power but European powers together have a massive amount of military power that is second only to US. This is a legacy of Cold War spending.

Most of this strength is still also directed towards war against USSR because with slashed budgets there has not been enough money to buy expeditionary forces (nor strategic transportation ability they would need). Thus most European forces are essentially similar meachanized forces as they were in early 1990's but with much slower equipment change cycle.

There has been discussion and actions towards European defence concepts such as common troop pools and HQs. This scared the shit out of Americans who vehemontly resist any idea of European military force capable of doing things independently. So yes, US can whine about lack of military power in Europe but it is also against independent European military power. It wants European militaries to function through NATO (where it has loudest voice) rather than any European organ (where it has no power). This is the actual cause of the US complaints.

Best source of "official" European (EU) perspective towards military issues is here:
http://www.iss-eu.org/

This text offers best description of actual developments in the security and military field in last few years:
http://www.iss-eu.org/books/5esdpen.pdf

It is good to remeber that even if you do not see news articles about Solana beating his fist on desk and issuing ultimatums nor European air forces carrying air strikes against regime targets, it does not mean EU is somehow negleting its eventual march towards more common defence policies.

What EU would pretty much like to do (and what it will im my view eventually do) has been described quite openly here. This is not official policy but reflects very accurately things Finnish General Hägglund (who was top EU military commander) have mentioned in Finnish military trade press on where EU wants to go in military terms:
http://www.iss-eu.org/chaillot/wp2004.pdf

However, it is good to remember that nothing happens quickly in military in peace time as there is no pressing need to create force structures for campaign. Thus you can again sit back and see small things happening all the time while these issues are generally being ignored in rapidly moving news cycle in US.

by Nikita on Thu Aug 18th, 2005 at 08:05:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Military vs Economic strength (none / 1)

Thanks for the link to ISS.

You are right that some conservatives want the EU to remain dependent on the US. But I have always thought that the community of free nations will be stronger when we are all strong and working together. That's what I meant when I said

The neocons probably won't like it, but we liberal Americans would appreciate having a partner that we can rely on.

by corncam on Thu Aug 18th, 2005 at 09:35:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Military vs Economic strength (none / 0)

community of free nations

Sorry but you sound neocon again :-)

Again the question is, what kind of "strong" do you mean, what applications of military power do you think of? The two you have given, France in Africa and Britain in the Falklands, are neither ones I would wish more - Thatcher notably blew the opportunity of a peaceful settlement (sinking of the Belgrano); France's interventions usually have more to do with the immediate security of French expats and French businesses than ensuring democracy, and short-term thinking usually leads to new problems only years or months later.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Fri Aug 19th, 2005 at 06:54:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Military vs Economic strength (none / 0)

Good questions DoDo. I think we all agree that the Petersberg tasks are appropriate, but many countries lack the logistical capabilities they need. I also think that the western countries need to be better at supporting refugees and emergency reconstruction, but I don't know whether these tasks below to the Army or some civilian agency.

There are still plenty of situations that require conventional military force. For example, none of us wants to see China invade Taiwan, or North Korea attack South Korea, or Serbia attack Croatia. NATO membership may be the only thing that protects the Baltic states from a future Russian government. While I'm not familiar with the details of Falklands diplomacy, I think that in principle, the British were justified in using force to repel the Argentine invaders. I also think that evacuating expats is a legitimate use of state power.

I am aware that the western countries have frequently used their militaries to set up right-wing military dictatorships around the world. This practice has almost always backfired on us, and I hope that our leaders will eventually realize that it is futile. (Not to mention hypocritical, un-democratic and just plain evil.) Nevertheless, if dictatorship stays in our sphere of influence long enough, sometimes it can transform into a democracy; Taiwan and South Korea are prime examples.

I really don't know what to do about humanitarian crises like Sudan or Rwanda. We have a moral imperative to help the weak, but I don't think we know how to do that sucessfully. One of my friends spent 20 years in the military, and now he works for NGOs in crisis zones - he doesn't have any easy answers either.

So there are some of my thoughts on the uses of military power. How much money should a democracy spend on these tasks? I think 4% of GDP is too much, and 1% is too little, but every country has to decide that for themselves.

by corncam on Fri Aug 19th, 2005 at 02:00:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Military vs Economic strength (none / 0)

Nikita, both of your comments here, when put together, would make a very interesting diary on the current status of the European military. I will go digging into the links you have provided, but encourage you to elaborate for all of us what is in them and what you think about it. As far as I can recall, no one has really done a story that takes an in-depth look at where the European Military is, or where it would be if it created its own military outside of NATO (which I have heard rumors of too). Thought provoking. Thanks!

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia

by whataboutbob on Thu Aug 18th, 2005 at 01:18:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is it Time for the US to Wake Up to the European Dream? | 37 comments (37 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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