Youth unemployment | 41 comments (41 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

So, why are 61.5% of French youth, but only 37.0% of British youth and 32.1% of Danish youth "inactive" and what does inactivity entail?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 09:00:03 AM EST

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

Being a student would do, for a start.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 09:41:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

Except that since the UK introduced "top-up fees", it is increasingly likely (and necessary) for British students to work at least part-time while they study.

Denmark is peculiar in that there is (or used to be, last I knew) substantial state support for students, but people still chose to work, travel and generally do all kinds of other things on the side.

In Spain as far as I know it is extremely hard to work and study at the same time, neither side allowing for flexible schedules.

Anyway, the point is, if you're a full-time student you're "dependent". Who's picking up the tab?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 09:45:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

But wouldn't that assume a much higher percentage of youths going to college in France? I think more attend in France than in Britain, though I could be wrong, but the difference was not that enormous.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 09:46:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

How many US undergraduates are active if you include financial aid programmes involving on-campus work?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 09:51:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

I haven't the slightest idea, but I'm guessing it's a fairly large percentage, but, again, that's just a guess based wholly on my experience. Everyone I know (knew) works (worked). My parents and their friends all worked. Most financial aide does not allow for living expenses, and, even though most students come from middle-class backgrounds, they still can't afford to not work. I managed to avoid working for the last two years of my degree, but only because I saved while I worked full-time during community college (first year and a half), which costs only a fraction of what university education costs.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:06:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 1)

yay for community colleges. When I was a TA, my best (most engaged) undergraduates tended to be CC transfers.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:12:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

That's similar to my experience. I think part of it lies in CC transfers being students who were probably more likely to have worked during their CC years, while the kids who went straight to the university ended up spending the first two years at parties and sleeping through half the classes. There seems to be a difference in maturity. The people I know who went to CC also graduated, or currently have, higher GPAs than those who started at university straight out of high school.

Not sure what the stats show.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 01:54:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 1)

This is my opinion of the US higher education system. Do you agree, Drew?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 06:16:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

In general, absolutely. However, my experience with how community college students are viewed is different, in that no one has ever held it against me. In fact, many admire it, especially if you're headed to prestigious schools for graduate school. I had a classmate in sociology who is now headed to Smith University. She was a community college grad, and now she's headed to the most prestigious women's school in the country.

There's no shame, whatsoever, in community college. As I said, most people I know who went straight to the universities from high school ended up drunk and stoned for the first two years. Many flunked out and ended up in community colleges, anyway. And they're all spending more than the traditional four years in school, whereas my fiancee graduated in only three and a half years with her degree, and I finished within the same period with two degrees.

Once you get beyond the introductory coursework, which is offered at any community college, I think it's better to have professors who are more concerned with research, since they're more able, in my experience, to walk you through complex concepts and demonstrate the concepts' usefulness, from an academic standpoint.

What will be interesting to see is whether states will begin making it their policies to have all students first attend community college for the first two years, and then to have them move on to the universities. I think it would be a mistake, and would crowd out the students who want and need to remain local and keep fees down, but I'm hearing more and more talk of it in the local press here in Tallahassee. I guess the state legislature and the governor are thinking about it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 07:23:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

She was a community college grad, and now she's headed to the most prestigious women's school in the country.

By the way, you mentioned others viewing CCs as being where brown people go to school. My old classmate is black, grew up poor, and damned if she's not pulling ahead of everyone. Just goes to show the truth in your point about smart kids finding a way.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 07:27:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

"This is where brown kids go to school" is something I heard Sherman alexie say during a talk at Riverside Community College, to stress why he loved talking at CCs.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 03:51:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

There are differences in how countries regard part-time work as well. You may count as inactive in most European countries even if you work part-time while in the US one hour of work makes you employed if I recall properly.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:22:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

The one hour cut of is the international labor organization (ILO/BIT) definition agreed upon by member nations & used in most international comparisons of unemployment. See my post further down for more on the two versions of unemployment calculated in France.

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:36:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

The ILO agreements are guidelines and several of the surveys depart from them as far as I could make out from the small print in the OECD comparisons.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:39:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

For the most part EU countries are using or will use the ILO definition in the near future. Euro-stats uses the ILO definition but caps the age group at 74. The latest Eurostat memo states:

Current deviations from definition of unemployment in the EU Labour Force Survey
Spain, United Kingdom: Unemployment is restricted to persons aged 16-74. In Spain the legal age limit for working is 16.
Netherlands: Persons without a job, who are available for work and looking for a job are only included in unemployment if they express that they would like to work.
The remaining deviations will disappear as Member States adapt their surveys to the new definitions. The other Member States already comply with the definition.

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:52:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

Sorry I should add that countries can still maintain their own national versions of unemployment definition. France for example has two definitions.

by Alexandra in WMass (alexandra_wmass[a|t]yahoo[d|o|t]fr) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:54:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

That'll make life a little easier I suppose. It still doesn't help with the structural differences, but at least the surveys will be on the same basis.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:54:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

You´re right.
If you follow German national definitions on unemployment you can count as unemployed if you work less than 15 hours a week.
That´s one of the reasons (but only one of them) why there is such a big difference between the national unemployment rate of around 11% and the ILO rate of around 8% for Germany.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:45:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youth unemployment (none / 0)

I would expect most of the difference coming from the proportion of students that do not need (or choose) to work at the same time.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 09:57:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Depends on definitions I suppose. (none / 0)

For example in Germany you are considered "inactive" (neither employed nor unemployed) in that age group if you:

go to school
go to university
do compulsary service like the draft

And students in Germany can work for 19 hours a week (or full time during spring and summer breaks) without losing their student status. Meaning that you only have to pay the wage tax but no payments for unemployment insurance and social security. And you still stay in the student health insurance.

If other countries count such a student as "active" and employed, that would change the numbers.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:09:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Depends on definitions I suppose. (none / 0)

What nasty things happen to students who work longer than 19 hours in Germany?

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:11:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Depends on definitions I suppose. (none / 0)

You´re losing your student privileges.
The law then says that your studies are no longer the "main" part of your "life".

Meaning you will have to pay the same things as a normal employee. Including unemployment insurance, health insurance and so on (always fixed percentages of the wage). So you´re set to loose a nice piece of your wage.

(As a student you only pay a fixed amount of money each month for health insurance. Right now I believe around Euro 50 per month.)

And additionally the employer normally pays half of these percentages. Meaning additional costs for him too. So given the chance he probably would like to avoid that. :)

The university itself isn´t interested in what you do.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:35:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Depends on definitions I suppose. (none / 0)

So if you can't make ends meet at 19h/wk, you'll give up studying altogether. Which is the kind of stuff lurking behind these statistics of youth employment.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

by Carrie (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 10:41:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Depends on definitions I suppose. (none / 0)

In a worst case yes.

But I suspect most students in such a case (working 19 hours a week "officially") would then resort to an additional "unofficial" job. Say private babysitting or housecleaning. With money paid without "administration involvement". :)

Always assuming of course that your official job isn´t that well paying. I mean if you need to work more than 19 hours a week, you simply have to check if it´s worth the effort. If you work 25 hours and after everything is subtracted, you only have Euro 20 more than with a 19 hour job...
In that case a 19 hour job and once or twice babysitting makes probably more sense, financially.

And of course a lot depends on where you´re studying.
I already mentioned the fixed student health insurance so that wouldn´t change. But Munich for example is more expensive than smaller university cities.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Tue Jan 17th, 2006 at 11:00:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Youth unemployment | 41 comments (41 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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