There's a thriving cottage industry around urban agriculture. Makes for a good diary topic, too.

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

I just couldn't remember. Silly me.

Besides, by the late 19th century European forests were in a sorry state, what with the industrial age and all ... so rebuilding a forest that's in a poor state (nota bene: that has not been converted to arable land, but that has only been logged for wood) is bound to increase forest surface areas over a century. What's important is what happens from now on ...

Spain cut down most of its trees to build ships. Britain cut down its entire stock of yew to make longbows. Deforestation in Europe by and large took place before the industrial revolution, which was fueled by coal and iron, not wood. So I don't know what a fair point of comparison would be, really. But it is clear why the lop point of deforestation should have happened in the 1800's (with cross-country variations of a few couple of decades).

A society committed to the notion that government is always bad will have bad government. And it doesn't have to be that way. — Paul Krugman

I don't have hard data on this, but I think mountainous regions have been reforested after being abandoned by small peasant farmers. You know, mowers used to tie themselves to a stake on steep slopes so as to be able to lean back on the rope and be at the proper angle to use the scythe. That is a world that disappeared, true, partly with the advent of increasingly industrial farming. We will probably only go back to working such areas in the event of catastrophic environmental/ecomonomic collapse (which is possible). But, in that case, even the big meat-eaters will be forced to reduce their intake... (Let the happy hunter-gatherers get out there and try and catch a wild rabbit with their bare hands ;))

Don't think I don't agree with you that we produce and consume meat at unsustainable levels, I do. I'm just chipping at some of your arguments I find a bit wilder than others.

well i'm reclaiming my 5 acre farm fro the creeping reforeststion that is happening to fields all over the area, as the meadows and spaces that humans cleared by hand over the centuries have been abandoned in the exodus to the cities.

the richer bottom lands are still treeless, whipped by chemicals into growing tobacco, but many of the hill farms are reverting fast.

when i saw de lang on tv overlooking france from a helicopter, saying that if it were not for the cap, all the farmland would be swallowed by woods quite quickly.

i have mixed feelings about this, as i imagine the woods would be cut pretty swiftly and unsustainably if heating prices continue to rise exponentially, and the wildlife is very sparse now, due to overhunting and chemicals in the ecosystem.

more woods would be good for them.

italy does have a very keen forest police -forestale- who do nothing but patrol looking for illegal cutting, issue permits for tree cutting -3 months to have permission to cut one tree to make a driveway.

but when you consider it took 2 years to have a landline connected, and i am less that 2k from the nearest phone, this may be proto-italian, in its glacial slowness.

i must say that the woods are healthy, and there are lots around me, providing sustainable work for families here.

you NEVER see the kind of nightmare clearcuts like some places; there are strict rules as to how many years between cutting, and how many trees must be left uncut, to minimise runoff and erosion.

i hear if you run into a tree in your car, the fine for killing the tree can be very steep, though this may be urban legend.

as fuel prices rise, i expect more will be done by hand, providing more jobs and more incentive not to damage the national patrimony....colour me optimistic on this perhaps!

maybe someone will come up with a solar panel-powered laser chainsaw, lol.

'The history of public debt is full of irony. It rarely follows our ideas of order and justice.' Thomas Piketty