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Going off on a purely aesthetic tangent, from my own perspective I have to say that at its best I find modernist architecture a lot more interesting than what preceded it. The grand nineteenth century stuff really isn't my cup of tea.  

However, as far as the mass produced stuff goes, the situation is reversed. I currently live in one of the brownstone neighbourhoods in Brooklyn - i.e. the late nineteenth century equivalent of the suburban middle class subdivision or the postwar W. European middle class apartment development. Nineteenth century beats postwar hands down. Walking out into my neighbourhood, especially at night, provides a comforting and uplifting sense of harmony.

Worst place I ever lived for an extended period of time was a 1970's huge Warsaw plattenbau apartment complex - soul deadening ugliness and shoddiness. When I next lived in Warsaw I chose an eighties complex that was simply bland and more importantly right on the edge of the old town and next to a nice old park. The extra daily half hour of crowded trams each way was more than worth it.  Warsaw btw is easily the ugliest capital I've ever seen, but at least the communists decided to faithfully rebuild a replica of the old town.  I only wish the Germans had done the same in their cities.

Geneva has unfortunately made a determined effort over the past several decades to replace the pleasant nineteenth and early twentieth century buildings on its right bank with 'functional' modern stuff that ranges from ugly to mildly annoying, characterless non-descript.

by MarekNYC on Wed Jan 4th, 2006 at 03:18:34 AM EST
To be fair, a lot of the mediocre 20th centruy stuff comes from the postwar period when urgent necessity was a rather good excuse.  lot of the harmonious old stuff was destroyed in the war, sadly, whole neighboroods or towns- worth of it.

An interesting comparison for architecture is between London and Paris, where the constraints on the appearance of the buildings are rather different (stringent height restrictions in Paris, plus "facadisme, i.e. the obligation to keep the outside as it was when refurbishing/tearing down a building). London has much more original architecture (from my uninformed point of view), but both cities have their share of ugly  and beautiful stuff (whether individual buildings or streets/blocks).

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jan 4th, 2006 at 03:48:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To be fair, a lot of the mediocre 20th centruy stuff comes from the postwar period when urgent necessity was a rather good excuse.  lot of the harmonious old stuff was destroyed in the war, sadly, whole neighboroods or towns- worth of it.

I'd buy that if it weren't for the fact that the European city I'm most familiar with is Geneva. Wealthy and no wartime destruction - yet the housing is just as ugly as in Germany. Hell, even the sixties and seventies era buildings on Park or Fifth on the Upper East Side are hideous - and that's carefully built stuff for the wealthy.

by MarekNYC on Wed Jan 4th, 2006 at 11:19:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Worst place I ever lived for an extended period of time was a 1970's huge Warsaw plattenbau apartment complex - soul deadening ugliness and shoddiness.

Yeah right, and you only lived in them when they were new!

By the way, Marek, you are just the right person to ask this.

What would be the best English word to use for Plattenbau? I am always confused what to use when talking of one in English.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Jan 4th, 2006 at 05:19:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually I lived there in the plattenbau monstrosity about a dozen years ago - they were roughly twenty years old and already in bad shape.  Remember, I was born in the US and grew up in the US and Switzerland. When I travelled to Poland for summers and Christmas I mostly stayed either in my grandfather's Krakow apartment - a really nice early twenties bourgeois type place right between the old town and the castle overlooking the park that rings the old town. Or I spent time in the mountain resort of Zakopane where my family has had a vacation home since the thirties. Or on my grand aunt's small farm - very small and primitive house but it had a certain taste of exoticism and adventure for a middle class Western kid like me - look, no running water, draw the bucket up from the pretty well :)

I have no idea what to call a Plattenbau in English, I generally just say 'housing project' though that isn't an ideal translation it does work better than a literal one - 'large concrete slab building'.  The sixties and seventies era was the worst period for 'architecture' in Poland (badly designed hideousness would be a better term). The stalinist era buildings are ugly but at least they're solid. The eighties stuff is unattractive but nowhere near as bad as what preceded it.

by MarekNYC on Wed Jan 4th, 2006 at 11:15:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When I visited Krakow some summers ago, I went to have a look at the Nova Huta suburb. A Stalinist town build in the fifties to provide housing for the workers at the disastrous Nova Huta steelwork that Stalin had placed near Krakow in order to give the academic city a solid proletariat (in spite of the lack of steel and coal near Krakow).

I expected this Stalinist vision of a "town of the future" to be a completely drab and nightmarish zone of socialist concrete blocks, but to my surprise, I found that what I saw actually compared very favorably to the suburban landscapes that exists around Copenhagen.

There was something quite sad about realizing that even Stalinist visions of the future constructed cheaply in a poor country after the world war, looked less hopeless than the functionalistic model neighborhoods constructed by a fairly rich welfare state in the sixties.

Here's a picture of Høje Gladsaxe in Copenhagen, build in 1968:

And one from Nova Huta:



Biilmann Blog

by BobFunk (bobfunk@clanwhiskey.net) on Thu Jan 5th, 2006 at 06:42:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's fifities socreal ('socialist-realist'), not seventies Plattenbau. The latter looks like your Høje Gladsaxe, only made of lower quality materials, larger concrete plates (c. 3m x 3m) and much more of these towers in one group.

On the other hand, I must note that I was once directed to the (now disappeared) homepage of an American family in Budapest, written for other expats, who lived in one of Budapest's Plattenbau buildings (one of the better) - and wrote that they liked the place, and wondered why Budapesters are of such low opinion of them! (They came from Chicago, I wonder if anyone can comment on downtown living space there.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Jan 5th, 2006 at 07:26:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually I lived there in the plattenbau monstrosity about a dozen years ago - they were roughly twenty years old and already in bad shape.

Late night confused mind... sorry. However, until the end of communism, there was still some effort to maintain these houses - except for East Germany, wherever I saw them, save for a few replaced doors they usually look much worse now 12 years later.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Jan 5th, 2006 at 07:17:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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