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and America starts acting real, everybody is going to know when the shit goes down.

Europe has large investments in South and Central America, and in particlar the econony of the Iberian pensinsuls is deeply tied to Latin America. Where Britain's colonial past has lingering repercussions for it's former colonies (If the US had been a French colony that emereged as a francophone state would the Anglo-American alliance have the impact it does now on world and European politics.)  Spain and Latin America are joined together in Hispanidad the common cultural heritage that includes the Castillian language and  the legacy of Spanish law on the continent.

The emerging Latin Bloc will have an impact on world poltics, Europe will feel the impact.    The closure of American borders would only serve to increase the flow of Latin Americans to Europe's shores. Spain has been the recipient of large scale immigration from Ecuador in recent years,  If Mexicans can no longer go to Chicago it's likely they'll end up in Madrid.  I think the AMLO can stem the flow of immigrants from Mexico, but there's such a push out of the country here that migration will be a fact for many years to come.

There's a strain of thought that argues that Stalin more than Jean monnet deserves the credit for European integration.  George Bush seems to be playing the same role for Latin America.  The Bush Administration shows little patience for the Bolivarian sentiement in South America, and they've shown themselves more than willing to engage in hostilities less than war against the countries of Latin America.  Chavez has been the recipient of US funded coup attempts, and the base at Manta in Ecuador and Mariscal Estigbarria in Paraguay are part of an effort to create an American military presence in the region.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Jan 5th, 2006 at 12:12:14 PM EST
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Cheers MfMM. That was a very informative post. I had not thought about the effects of this new Bolivarian consiousness in terms of immigration into Europe.

Money is a sign of Poverty - Culture Saying
by RogueTrooper on Thu Jan 5th, 2006 at 12:19:16 PM EST
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The closure of American borders would only serve to increase the flow of Latin Americans to Europe's shores.

I think that will be less significant (not reaching the levels of immigration from Africa) - mainly due to geographic and connected money limitations; while illegal immigration to the USA just can't be stopped (closing borders only creates a lucrative black market).

There's a strain of thought that argues that Stalin more than Jean monnet deserves the credit for European integration.

I prefer a third strain of thought - not wanting to repeat the run-ups to WWI and WWII.

BTW, I see I again do this - responding only to disagreements and not applauding agreed parts... So better late then never, ManfromMiddletown, great diary and informative comments!

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Jan 6th, 2006 at 06:17:39 AM EST
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I think that will be less significant (not reaching the levels of immigration from Africa) - mainly due to geographic and connected money limitations; while illegal immigration to the USA just can't be stopped (closing borders only creates a lucrative black market).

It's true that  geography is an impediment here, but the large numbers of Ecuadorians in Madrid show it can happen.  If the US border is militarized I think it would at least slow immigration into the US.   I'm all for solutions that address immigration that work by creating opportunity in immigrant's home countries, but I have to say that I think I'm glad us Americans have an immigrant class that's shares a smiliar cultural background and religion to the peple already here.  There are problems but we don't have jihad in the dykes like happenened in the Netherlands recently with Theo Van Gogh.  

I've always found it curious that Europeans haven't shown a preference and encouragement to Latin immigrants o ver Arabs for this reason.  Of course until recently South America was where Europeans went to make their money then come home.

I prefer a third strain of thought - not wanting to repeat the run-ups to WWI and WWII.

There was never a WWIII. I'm a strong believer in the idea that forces over time change how societies think and act, and that what's happening now isn't a guarantee that things will be the same in the future.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Fri Jan 6th, 2006 at 08:39:26 PM EST
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